Grognards.txt NEXT: Goodnight, Sweet Wince

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Grognards.txt NEXT: Goodnight, Sweet Wince

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

I think the Gamergate talk should go on the correct thread, which is this one: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3680472

# ? Mar 1, 2015 01:19

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 11:46

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

ProfessorCirno posted:

From what I've seen, Tito tried to play it neutral, which meant being attacked by sealions for not being a True Believer, then ultimately being kicked out by Macris (the guy who's literally bragged about SPENDING HIS WHOLE LIFE PREPARING FOR THIS WAR), only to be snapped up by WotC for reasons nobody is entirely sure of yet.

Of course the thread about him on ENWorld ended up becoming sealion con 2015, more or less revealing just how terrible ENWorld was.

His hiring seems to be disproportionately pissing off MRA shitheads, so I suppose I'm in favor.

And too bad about circvsmaximvs going to poo poo. That was my internet forum home for about 2 years.

Haven't been there in like 5, but whatevs.

# ? Mar 1, 2015 02:32

Ettin: Oct 2, 2010

Man, you guys can't stop talking about Gamergate, huh.

# ? Mar 1, 2015 02:49

Ettin: Oct 2, 2010

dwarf74 posted:

Ettin, please reopen grognards.txt

We can see what happens, I guess.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 07:57

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

Ettin eat the eggs.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 07:59

Clanpot Shake: Aug 10, 2006; shake shake!

On introducing people who have never played a roleplaying game to playing roleplaying games:

quote:

These are new players. They don't need the luxury of Agency at this point.

# ? Mar 26, 2015 13:19

Rulebook Heavily: Sep 18, 2010; by FactsAreUseless

So where are those "Too Late Synnibarr Exists" shirts, then??

# ? Mar 26, 2015 16:45

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

Rulebook Heavily posted:

So where are those "Too Late Synnibarr Exists" shirts, then??

# ? Mar 26, 2015 16:47

Mors Rattus: Oct 25, 2007; FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Welcome back, thread!

Have a thing.

I'm not reposting the art it came with though. Well, 'art.'

quote:

Raski: Welcome to the jungle, Rookie ! I hope survive the expe......What the.....Hey DOG, didn't I tell you that we will greet the rookie completely nude !

Tamuz: But...but Ingosh-kun made me this turban on his deathbed, just before he made the Prophecy that pwned those silly Sid's Asstrology :'(

Raski: Urrghh, we all agreed to Sushi's plan on abandon the life of civilization ! Now get that off your head or do you want me to crush your testicles ):<

Deathflyer: Hai ! The loli is scaring the Rookie. Over.

Raski: What in the..............See, seeeee ! Now your just destroy my image as the innocent little girl before the rookie ! Give me your ball now so I can crush it !

Tamuz: Nyyann ~(;�Д`)~

Deathflyer: Hai ! The loli is making the situate worse. Over. Also, "Nyan" is a feline's catchphrase. Over

Tamuz: ...........

Raski: ..........Um, so rookie, still want to join our Thousand poo poo Rivers ? We have.......eh, Tamuz, what benefit do we usually offer to a rookie.....?

Tamuz: ....I think we have.....some cactus bark here to wiping our rear end whenever we finish the "activity", I think.....

The Lunar Elder is some of the most well-written NPC that I have seen in RPG, but skimming through the What We Know Wiki I have seen a dev quote that have shaken my faith in Ex3 AKA The Bishop no longer has Sex Art: Eight Hundred Penises Battle Form :gasp: ! Now I fear for my beloved First Age Lunar Elder, a Ma-Ha-Sushi that is not a serial rapist, a Raski that is not a cannibal loli, they won't be the same anymore if the dev decide to remove those quirky trait from them. Raski's father laughing at her for being a stupid child always bring a tear to my heart, can't you people see just how tragic these characters are !

So here hoping that Lilith will still moping around the Wyld for 1k5 years and is now stalking a teenager boy while Leviathan still cheated with his BFF's wife and is now a genocidal loony-toon. If they are not then Exalted is dead to me, I repeat, First Age Lunar Elders are the foundation that Exalted was built on, please let's them remain as they are, I'm 100% sure the people who won't bat an eyelash if Ex3 don't have them pretty much amount to zero, I mean, they appeared in First Edition, that alone is enough to let's them continue to exist in Third Edition, right ?

quote:

Since when? I read that nowhere. I liked that aspect, a symbol of the perversity of the messiah complex and the faith others have in the Bishop.

quote:

quote:
As a matter of fact, she is not. Her original description was someone who took the shapes of good-looking youths, which overs a wide ground of ages but tends toward much more mature-looking appearances than that of a loli.
You can have my Eight-Hundred Penis Battle-form Bishop, if you MUST, but I'm with Jen on this. You can have my Lolicon Raksi when you pry her from my-- yeah, I'm not gonna finish that sentence,-- *hrmmms*

Suchi is on his own, though. Seriously, Jen, even in satire-- you defend Suchi?? I am disappoint.

# ? Mar 28, 2015 22:11

Ronwayne: Nov 20, 2007; That warm and fuzzy feeling.

Do we have a specific individual equivalent to :aatrek:

because holy poo poo. P.S. lunars are actually pointless garbage, so eliminating the elders is just a good start :colbert:

# ? Mar 29, 2015 00:57

Loomer: Dec 19, 2007; A Very Special Hell

Exalted and early White Wolf in general are a really good way of checking your friends out. If they, for instance, see no problem with Gypsies? Probably racist. If they post something like that, definitely off the table for babysitting duties.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 01:05

Ronwayne: Nov 20, 2007; That warm and fuzzy feeling.

IF they've kept that poo poo quiet I don't WANT to know this awful poo poo. I live in Texas, every human being here has something loathsome about them. I hate facebook and social media because eventually that awful poo poo will slip and will be engraved in stone for all time.

Also nerds tend to be bad at explaining themselves and some that speak out against something bad argue so badly it sounds like they're supporting the awful thing.

(This amnesty isn't universal of course, I kick pedos to the curb instantly)

Ronwayne fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Mar 29, 2015

# ? Mar 29, 2015 01:13

MiltonSlavemasta: Feb 12, 2009; And the cats in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man on the moon
"When you coming home, dad?"
"I don't know when
We'll get together then son you know we'll have a good time then."

While there is a treasure trove of grognardism on those forums, I'm pretty sure that was a joke.

# ? Mar 29, 2015 01:34

Bedlamdan: Apr 25, 2008

Ronwayne posted:

P.S. lunars are actually pointless garbage, so eliminating the elders is just a good start

Agreed. Lunars were never good, and I have no idea why they even got fans in the first place.

MiltonSlavemasta posted:

While there is a treasure trove of grognardism on those forums, I'm pretty sure that was a joke.

There are no jokes on the SA forums

# ? Mar 29, 2015 02:47

paradoxGentleman: Dec 10, 2013; wheres the jester, I could do with some pointless nonsense right about now

Bedlamdan posted:

There are no jokes on the SA forums

That's why they posted it in the OP forums, presumably. :v:

# ? Mar 29, 2015 08:35

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

Is this guy for real? I kinda think he is.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 05:58

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

moths posted:

Is this guy for real? I kinda think he is.

Sometimes life is like an episode of Community, and the knowledge of that makes me smile.

# ? Mar 30, 2015 06:06

Froghammer: Sep 8, 2012; Khajit has wares
if you have coin

He does sound a bit like the Dean

# ? Mar 30, 2015 06:08

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

Froghammer posted:

He does sound a bit like the Dean

Or this guy could be a friend of ~~Fat~~ Neil's, cooking up some kind of scheme with Starburns.

Really though, it's just heartwarming that this is goofy and dumb but not really horrible like a lot of other grog. :3:

# ? Mar 30, 2015 06:11

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

Welcome back you awful thread! :confuoot:

quote:

Very busy day -- more "lining 'em up and knocking 'em down", goals-wise.

That's not really what this update is about though -- I've been thinking about something, and I wanted to let you in on my thought processes:

If you're not aware, Monte Cook Games came under fire recently for their portrayal of Native American culture in their game The Strange. Long story short -- they're removing a section that they feel they could've handled better, and replacing it with a more thoughtful re-write. (If you care for more details, you can read here: https://plus.google.com/+Montecookgames/posts/DhyFE67jFoZ )

Now, in the past, I've come under fire as well -- for a statement I made about FAR WEST not having any Native Americans in it. Now, to be sure -- that did not mean that I was *removing* them. Only that:

1) The game is a mash-up of Spaghetti Westerns (Note that I said "SPAGHETTI Westerns", not "Westerns") and Wuxia. The reason for this is because I noticed that the two genres are analogous, and wanted to explore that.

2) Spaghetti Westerns seldom featured Native Americans -- most often they were set in border locations, and featured Mexican peasants. (Reasons varied for this -- 1960s desire to do political revolution stories -- another feature echoed in wuxia -- and Spanish and Italian actors more readily able to play Latinos rather than Native Americans)

3) Our world is a FANTASY world -- not the historical West. On top of that, it's a fantasy world based on CHINA, not the American West. This will be more obvious when people see the game itself. It's not even an alt-historical. It's pure fantasy -- like King's Dark Tower "Midworld." Complaining that there are no Native Americans in a fantasy world based on China is a bit like complaining there are no Japanese in a game based on Arthurian myths.

4) In Wuxia, there is no true analogue of the "displaced indigenous culture" in their stories. Given that, and the Spaghetti Western lack of Native Americans, it seemed odd to include such a culture -- since I'm specifically going for a blend of those two specific things. FAR WEST does have ethnic minorities. Absolutely. What we don't have is an analogue to "indigenous displaced people", for the reasons I cite above.

Now, sure -- some of the criticism is founded in people not knowing this stuff (my own fault, really -- both for making the statement, and also for the game being so late that they can't just look and see for themselves).

But as I was thinking about it recently due to the MCG issue, I realized that despite our efforts to show a widely-diverse population in the Far West (as has been evidenced in the art you've seen), we don't have any illustrations which show characters of distinctly Native background. In short -- even if we don't have a "displaced indigenous people" analogue in the game, why shouldn't we have the ethnic minority present anyway?

So I've been thinking of adding a couple of additional illustrations to reflect that -- and perhaps a paragraph in the setting chapter specifically addressing our "wide palette".

Anyway, it's been on my mind, and I wanted to mention it.

Until tomorrow,

Gareth

Clearly this fictional setting is so divorced from reality, heaping our real world baggage on it is just DUMB. Now let me tell you about the version of real-world wild west town Dodge City that I have included in this completely wacky made-up Chinese-American West! Also, it still has black people because I guess they show up sometimes in spaghetti westerns, which is different from the infrequent appearance of Natives because

quote:

Personally, I see no reason to add American Indians, or African-Americans, or Eskimos, etc. to the game setting.If a game master wants to include them that is fine. But there is No way to please all the people all the time. Keep it simple and let the players and game masters decide what to add to the basics rather than trying to anticipate all their wishes. Otherwise you will end up with a core book the size of the entire Rifts series, and a commensurate cost.

quote:

Wait a minute � let's see if I got this straight:

Are you considering adding artwork specifically because you are concerned that a fictional ethnic minority in a fictional setting in a fictional universe might be offended because it is not getting equal time?

If so ... isn't that taking our modern PC anxieties just a little bit too far?

Native Americans: Fictional. To ~~be fair~~provide context, GMS straightens out this bizarre misunderstanding by saying, no, he's concerned about actual factual Native Americans.

quote:

Thanks for the clarification, Gareth.

But I must confess that this leaves me even more confused...

You explained in eloquent, fully rational, and utterly convincing detail how a "displaced indigenous culture"-type ethnic minority does not exist in the setting because it simply has no place in the setting, and that it has no place in the setting -- indeed CAN'T have a place in the setting -- for highly factual real-world reasons.

Something that does not exist in the setting can obviously not be depicted in the artwork either.

With you so far.

But what is it then that you are proposing?

Are you proposing to ensure that EVERY POSSIBLE real-world ethnic minority that in some way IS echoed in the setting is represented in the artwork? In that case, if it is even possible, well, why not. I mean, I'm not exactly sure WHY mind you, but why not.

Or are you proposing to add an element that for very good reasons does not exist in the setting into the artwork ANYWAY, just because people who, as you yourself noted, do not know a rodent's posterior about the actual material are inordinately fond of jumping onto the PC bandwagon to tote their own ignorance as loudly as possible?

Surely this can't be the case?

quote:

My concern was that once you try to be politically correct for one group another will demand equal or more time, and so on. Next someone will want dwarves and gnomes for the steam punk element, and someone else will ask why there are no elves or

The actual real people whose romanticized genocide this game's genre is standing on the shoulders of, well, they're pretty much elves from Valinor or some poo poo.

quote:

Don't worry about it so much. If there is no analogue to "displaced indigenous peoples", then that's how it is.

Stating that, then including artwork of those ethnicities anyway is just pandering. Also it opens the door for comments like "Well clearly they exist in the Far West- there are pictures of them. Why weren't they included?"

Stay true to your original vision,

GOTTA KEEP THAT PURITY

quote:

OTOH, if there are other real-world ethnic minorities that are NOT in any way echoed in the setting, but still ARE depicted in the artwork, then I agree someone might be justified in poerceiving a potential problem.

The solution I would propose in that case is that rather than adding even MORE elements that do not belong in the setting into the artwork, instead remove the existing ones.

To play Far West properly, you require brass cogs, Jet Li, Pancho Villa and nothing else.

quote:

You want to put in something, do it because you want to. Don't do it because of fear that SJWs will attack you because no matter what you (or anyone does) it'll never be enough.

MCG did much more than I feel they should've, but it only made it worse. Never give these leeches an inch. It's your work and again, put in what you want and let the work stand on its own.

quote:

Gareth, after reading your update and then Jussi's I agree with him and took your update the same way. I'm not trying to start an argument, with you or anyone, but this stuff isn't an issue until a small group makes it an issue.

And to be completely honest, you taking more time, after the game's well over three years late, just to add inclusive art into a fantasy world (your words), on the off chance it'll satisfy people who are never satisfied, doesn't sit well with me.

If you're worried that you'll be attacked, well, you will. You know the reasons and 99% are utter crap, so please, do whatever you want but please don't go down the road of pre-caving to bully censorship, because adding art that really doesn't belong in the context of the setting, just because of MCG's plight, would be just that. You've already, on more than one occasion, made it clear what FW is and why, and if you add Native American imagery to the game, you're inviting even more heartache.

Put another way: If MCG hadn't been attacked, would this even be a conversation? I doubt it.

quote:

no problem as long as it fits within your creative vision, Gareth.

It seems to me from the information you provided that there is no, nor can there be, a displaced indigenous ethnic tribe in the setting.

At the same time, any Black people shown in the setting must, by implicit logic, come from somewhere outside of the setting itself. While no analogue to Africa has been explicitly mentioned, it has never been said that there isn't one, somewhere, on some part of the world map not shown.

And slave trade is not the only way that people of a variety of genotypes can travel around a planet.

Thus, an "Africa" can exist in the setting's world, while it seems an aboriginal culture couldn't exist in the setting itself.

So, by the same token, cultures analogous to the native American ones COULD exist � somewhere else.

Individuals from such a culture could find their way into this setting by the same methods that other people not native to it do.

Therefore, one might show characters with Native American attributes in the setting, without in any way implying that they are indigenous to it.

While this line of reasoning might solve the conundrum, I fully agree with everything @ said about "pre-caving to bully censorship" etc. If you could find it in yourself to NOT add Native American imagery to the game FOR THE PRECISE REASON that this will by necessity be interpreted as an attempt to pander to a vocal minority not worth pandering, you would have my full support.

Noooo, don't add a paragraph to the setting chapter! Even mentioning that adds a month to the release ~~date~~delay!

Reminder: This was a for sure done deal and backers would get their proofing PDFs by December 17th or 18th, I can't remember exactly, but specifically in the year 2014.

pre-order page that's still up on RPGNow posted:

THIS IS A PRE-ORDER FOR THE PDF EDITION OF THE FAR WEST CORE RULEBOOK. Pre-order customers will receive the PDF after it is delivered to Kickstarter backers in January, and before the general commercial release.

# ? Mar 31, 2015 19:44

Guilty Spork: Feb 26, 2011; Thunder rolled. It rolled a six.

What I'm getting from this is that GMS decided he wanted to do wuxia in a spaghetti western setting, but refuses to even attempt to be creative enough to integrate Native Americans into it. I'm not clear on how he expects this to make him look like anything other than a hack, but that's me.

# ? Mar 31, 2015 22:15

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Guilty Spork posted:

What I'm getting from this is that GMS decided he wanted to do wuxia in a spaghetti western setting, but refuses to even attempt to be creative enough to integrate Native Americans into it. I'm not clear on how he expects this to make him look like anything other than a hack, but that's me.

One of the things that's striking about Skarka's work is how uncreative it all is. It's mostly straight-up nerd genre or property adaptations. Hong Kong action movies, pirates, classic pulp, swords-n-blasters pulp, Buckaroo Banzai, Perdido Street Station, superheroes - it's all just adapatation. Which is particularly funny given his pretensions towards running an IP-generating "transmedia" company.

Far West, with it's nerd-thing-X meets nerd-thing-Y setup (kung fu and spaghetti westerns, in this case) is actually a big step up for him in terms of originality.

# ? Mar 31, 2015 22:31

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

It's loving astounding to me that GMS of all people has the Perdido Street Station RPG license. I mean I'm sure China Mieville doesn't give a poo poo, but still.

# ? Mar 31, 2015 22:34

Xelkelvos: Dec 19, 2012

FMguru posted:

One of the things that's striking about Skarka's work is how uncreative it all is. It's mostly straight-up nerd genre or property adaptations. Hong Kong action movies, pirates, classic pulp, swords-n-blasters pulp, Buckaroo Banzai, Perdido Street Station, superheroes - it's all just adapatation. Which is particularly funny given his pretensions towards running an IP-generating "transmedia" company.

Far West, with it's nerd-thing-X meets nerd-thing-Y setup (kung fu and spaghetti westerns, in this case) is actually a big step up for him in terms of originality.

The setting would actually be really great if done well since they are quite similar.

Also, it reminds me of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaolin_Cowboy but it might be just the appearance of it since I haven't actually read it.

Kai Tave posted:

It's loving astounding to me that GMS of all people has the Perdido Street Station RPG license. I mean I'm sure China Mieville doesn't give a poo poo, but still.

That really does suck. Hopefully they do nothing with it and give it to someone else.

# ? Mar 31, 2015 22:55

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

I liked The Good, The Bad, The Weird, which is pretty much exactly what GMS seems to be going for, except it has even less black or Native American people because it was a two-hour movie made entirely in China, as opposed to a giant alleged book full of setting details where the author just shrugged and blurted out "It's genre fiction!"

~~That's why I refuse to support DC-based RPGs; they abandoned the ~Creative Purity~ of my beloved Egg Fu.~~

I made a joke about what I thought was a long-abandoned racist loving comic character, but he features prominently in recent stuff. What the Christing gently caress, DC? He's pretty much the same, has Chinese names and poo poo associated with him, but he's an alien now so I guess racism is over!

:psyboom:

# ? Mar 31, 2015 23:24

Serf: May 5, 2011

Haha, I remember when Skarka came at me on Twitter for criticizing his defense of MCG, and then he goes and writes this? Looks like work on Far West is continuing apace.

# ? Mar 31, 2015 23:29

unseenlibrarian: Jun 4, 2012; There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.

Actually the Good, the Bad, and the Weird was made in Korea, it was just set in China- the producer was calling it a Kimchee Western.

# ? Apr 1, 2015 00:14

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

unseenlibrarian posted:

Actually the Good, the Bad, and the Weird was made in Korea, it was just set in China- the producer was calling it a Kimchee Western.

D'oh, now who's the racist? It's me!

# ? Apr 1, 2015 00:15

El Estrago Bonito: Dec 17, 2010; Scout Finch Bitch

Plus it's set in an actual historical time period in Asia that was analogous to the wild west in the US. See also: Tears of the Black Tiger and Dynamite Warrior for Thailand. Far West is more like Sukiyaki Western Django in that it just mashes up tropes and hopes for the best (Sukiyaki is not very good IMHO).

But seriously, go watch Tears of the Black Tiger if you want to see an amazing love letter to classic westerns and Zorro as interpreted through the lens of a Thai period piece.

# ? Apr 1, 2015 00:36

Saguaro PI: Mar 11, 2013; Totally legit tree

Plague of Hats posted:

~~That's why I refuse to support DC-based RPGs; they abandoned the ~Creative Purity~ of my beloved Egg Fu.~~

I made a joke about what I thought was a long-abandoned racist loving comic character, but he features prominently in recent stuff. What the Christing gently caress, DC? He's pretty much the same, has Chinese names and poo poo associated with him, but he's an alien now so I guess racism is over!

We like to laugh about how the RPG industry is in love with nostalgia, but it ain't got poo poo on comics. They're constantly dredging up stupid z-list characters so nerds can feel that weird tribalist glow when they recognise them. To the writers it's better to hamfistedly squash someone like Egg Fu
into DC continuity in the year of our lord 2015 than consigning him to the dustbins of history where he belongs, because that would mean admitting sometimes the medium makes mistakes.

# ? Apr 1, 2015 01:36

Xelkelvos: Dec 19, 2012

Saguaro PI posted:

We like to laugh about how the RPG industry is in love with nostalgia, but it ain't got poo poo on comics. They're constantly dredging up stupid z-list characters so nerds can feel that weird tribalist glow when they recognise them. To the writers it's better to hamfistedly squash someone like Egg Fu
into DC continuity in the year of our lord 2015 than consigning him to the dustbins of history where he belongs, because that would mean admitting sometimes the medium makes mistakes.

he's only appeared once in 2015 and that's only a number of years after not using him because he was tied to a group no one cared to use.

# ? Apr 1, 2015 02:21

Froghammer: Sep 8, 2012; Khajit has wares
if you have coin

Xelkelvos posted:

he's only appeared once in 2015 and that's only a number of years after not using him because he was tied to a group no one cared to use.

There will be no Egg Fu apologism in this thread

# ? Apr 1, 2015 03:31

palecur: Nov 3, 2002; not too simple and not too kind; Fallen Rib

I was pretty hype for _Tears of the Black Tiger_, but I couldn't make it past the first musical number. The pacing is _glacial_ to a Western viewer.

# ? Apr 1, 2015 16:01

A Fancy 400 lbs: Jul 24, 2008

Nope, nosiree, the Chinese certainly didn't have a group of nearby outsiders they viewed as cultural and technological inferiors and were closely associated with horse riding, archery and raiding.

# ? Apr 1, 2015 16:09

Mormon Star Wars: Aug 13, 2005; It's a minotaur race...

Froghammer posted:

There will be no Egg Fu apologism in this thread

Compare DC's revival of Egg Fu to how Marvel handled "The Yellow Claw" in Agents of Atlas.

# ? Apr 1, 2015 16:27

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Poster says, "I want to create an oathless paladin." What kinds of responses do you think he got?

Come on. You know it's "You're playing D&D wrong."

tarlison posted:

I was thinking if we could design a non neccesarily evil variant of an Oath Breaker .... i was thinking this type might be called Ronin, Oath of the Wanderer, The Fallen, the Oathless or maybe all of the above although it would be understandable if other Paladins simple calls them Oathbreakers too .I was thinking thier powers and spells might be more on weapon combat enchamcement and mobility got an idea on the spells he gonna have give me some suggestiom these are the spells im thinking of :
Paladin Level Spells
3rd Expditious retreat, Heroism
5th Magic Weapon,Misty Step
9th Haste, Elemental Weapon
13th Dimension Door,Freedom of Movement
17th Passwall, Destructive Smite
if you have any suggestiom or someway to complete this paladin type please post it here

Grand Warchief posted:

The problem you have is that a Paladin without his oaths has no where to get his powers from. He has no direction and no guidance. He is essentially a fighter.

Wolfsraine posted:

So... a cleric?

Flashy posted:

I have to agree with the people above, this concept has confusing fluff. Who is giving this (essentially fallen) paladin her powers? True Neutral doesn't work terribly well as the basis for a class founded in championing ideals.
If a player came to me with this concept I'd probably say that this should just be represented as a fighter or a cleric.

Lord Raziere posted:

"Paladin" and "doesn't believe in their oath anymore" are mutually exclusive things. Paladins are the Oath. They are nothing without them.
try Fighter with the Acolyte Background.

eastmabl posted:

So... a warlock with an acolyte background? That's how I hear this going.
You just come up with a new pact - a Pact of Oath or something.

Giant2005 posted:

Do you? What is the middle ground between a Jedi and a Sith? The answer is the same for the Paladin: A commoner.

Giant2005 posted:

But they do.
Paladins are empowered by the force of their own conviction - you can't be convicted to mediocrity.
Without their Oath or rejection of their oath to drive that conviction, they have nothing to devote themselves to. They are nothing.
An Oath is as intrinsic to a Paladin as spellcasting is to a Sorcerer. An Oathless Paladin is in the same vein as a magic-less Sorcerer and neither should be particularly impressive.

Hyena posted:

There already is an oathless paladin in the game. It's called "fighter".

Psikerlord posted:

The defining aspect of a paladin is the oath. Otherwise he's a fighter or cleric. Every paladin comes with baggage that restricts their choices. Such is the price of being a paladin.

# ? Apr 6, 2015 15:03

Loomer: Dec 19, 2007; A Very Special Hell

To be fair, oaths and a code are a fairly inherent part of the Paladin archetype. Those responses are lovely but you can see where they're coming from.

# ? Apr 6, 2015 15:06

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

I've always thought that "Paladins as a package of mechanical abilities" and "Paladins as a prescription of in-game behavior" shouldn't be tied together if the player doesn't want them to be. It should be like if you played 4e and decided to reskin every Paladin ability to (narratively) use the Martial power source.

quote:

I'm really liking what I see here, apart from the blah *World-ism of calling things "Moves".

quote:

what's wrong with Moves?

quote:

It just feels like a bad fit. Moves are a thing you use in a 1-on-1 fighting game, not actions you take in a roleplaying game.

(I mean, unless you're playing the Street Fighter RPG, I guess...)

gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Apr 7, 2015

# ? Apr 6, 2015 15:14

Lottery of Babylon: Apr 25, 2012; STRAIGHT TROPIN'

I have been playing magic since Apoc and I have found Theros and Tarkir to be about as boring in limited as DGM. The fact that people feel that unflinching courage is amazing just sickens me because it is just a strictly worse Armadillo Cloak and MaRo himself tried to defend it by stating how the original version was too powerful.

Many of my friends quit magic in Theros and I quit Magic in BNG. I now only try out prereleases if I find them interesting. MaRo only seems to cater to new players and seems to feel that the veterans are only a small percentage and should simply move with the times. However these players have been faithful and have continued to support wizards. What he doesn't realise is that new players don't enter magic because it's interesting, they enter to play with their friends who are already playing magic. If you continue to exclude the veterans and reduce power level, eventually the number of players leaving will be greater than the number entering.

I feel that wizards doesn't trust it's customers, they don't share their poll data with us and the way they handled YMTC proves that they feel no guilt about loving over the player base. Due to their own manipulations of the polls and choosing which designs they liked the best we were left with another bin rare.

Gone are the days where you could finish two rounds by an hour and sit outside enjoying the cool breeze while chatting to your opponent. Players don't communicate with each other and or jest. I used to enjoy playing because I would meet new people to have a laugh and we'd all go to the pub to have fun afterwards. Much of that camaraderie is lost now and it saddens me.

Magic was made by Richard Garfield to have fun with his university friends many years ago. Wizards turned it into a business which is fine and understandable. Mark Rosewater came and turned it into a parasite where children don't have enough money to go bowling or take girls on dates cause they spend $50 on a single land so they can keep up with their friends decks. This entire change reminds me of Warhammer 40k and why I left warhammer. The only difference is that rather than new units/cards being stronger they are weaker and less interesting.

The storylines are cheaper and the level of depth shallow. Original Ravnica had many untold stories to tell but instead they make up a maze and bring in Jace to weave this terrible tale. Theros was just the TV tropes of Greek myth from poo poo films like the remake of Clash of the Titans and the Lightning Thief. No knowledge of Odyesees or original Greek Myth were used in Theros's design. The use of God as a creature type was silly when they used it on female gods. A better type would have been Deity since that is not gender specific. Tarkir ruined legacy history by ignoring the rules of time travel, elder status and the base colour of wedges.

Clearly Mark Rosewater cares not for what Magic once stood for and only to sell packs to the new and unknowing players who are unaware of the grandeur of Magic's past. This is why modern/legacy is more expensive to enter every year. Not because cards are disappearing but because players peak over the wall of limited filler at the past treasures and wish to obtain what treasures magic had once made. With numbers dwindling, the resources to make funner decks become limited and players are left penniless staring at cardboard that is worth more than food that could save a dying village in Africa.

# ? Apr 8, 2015 21:29

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 11:46

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Magic used to be about the stories, man!

# ? Apr 8, 2015 21:33

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Grognards.txt NEXT: Goodnight, Sweet Wince

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