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Tab8715 posted:When I'm going through a recruiter or without one should I bring up salary requirements if they don't? I've no experience with recruiters. Since they seem to be matchmakers I would be up front with them about what you want. Without a recruiter is different and really depends on your situation. If a company wants to offer you a job they will have to talk salary and benefits eventually. Are you worried you are wasting your time? You can get a good ballpark by searching the web and places like glassdoor and the E: Confused NLRB for BLS. Boot and Rally fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Mar 31, 2015 |
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Mar 31, 2015 04:24
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I've the experience where I've done a lot interviewing but pay hasn't come up until the end I'm afraid that number I give might be too much and I've wasted all my time. How do I search the NLRB?
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Mar 31, 2015 05:33
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Tab8715 posted:When I'm going through a recruiter or without one should I bring up salary requirements if they don't? It depends entirely on the type of recruiter and the types of positions they fill. For an inside recruiter they probably won't bring it up and you shouldn't either. It's probably enough to say, you expect to be paid in line with industry norms for the position. There are two types of outside recruiter: retained and contingency. Retained recruiters act very much like an inside recruiter. They're paid a flat fee whether the position gets filled or not, but if it gets filled sooner they can move on to something else. Thus it's in their interest to find someone who is likely to say yes in the end. Contingency recruiters are more complicated. They get a percentage of the salary, which means for very high level positions they're actually on your side (sort of like how both real estate agents work for the seller). However, the lower end contingency recruiters just try to maximize volume so they generally want cheaper candidates since they're more likely to take the job.
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Mar 31, 2015 05:59
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Tab8715 posted:I've the experience where I've done a lot interviewing but pay hasn't come up until the end I'm afraid that number I give might be too much and I've wasted all my time. Whoops, sorry I meant BLS. For example, Network and Computer Systems Administrators. How disparate are your desires and the offers? If you have a good job and you are happy you don't need to worry about a company "anchoring" the discussion. Let them offer and then tell them what you want. Your best shot at getting what you want is after you've demonstrated you're the best person for the job. If you're tired of interviewing and companies are beating down your door then by all means let them know you are "very happy where you are and only interested in exploring particularly interesting opportunities". Boot and Rally fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Mar 31, 2015 |
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Mar 31, 2015 06:08
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Speaking of recruiters, I might have an interesting salary negotiation coming up. I got contacted by one with an opening in my industry to do way more interesting work than what I have now. On top of that, the pay is insane- I make $19/hr now and the pay rate on the listing is $42/hr  If I get to the salary negotiation phase of the hiring process, what do I do? I only have a year and a half of work experience and would never have suggested that number in a negotiation. Is it OK to take the first number they give you if that number is beyond your wildest dreams? What signals would it send if I didn't make an effort to haggle, or if I did try to haggle over such a good starting pay rate? I know I shouldn't count my chickens before they hatch but this opportunity came with no warning so I feel like I should be ready for anything to happen at any time.
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Apr 1, 2015 01:14
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C-Euro posted:Speaking of recruiters, I might have an interesting salary negotiation coming up. I got contacted by one with an opening in my industry to do way more interesting work than what I have now. On top of that, the pay is insane- I make $19/hr now and the pay rate on the listing is $42/hr Know when you have won the negotiation, even if you did nothing to win it yourself. Also, you're one of those guys with great benefits, see if you can estimate what the difference in benefits is for a more accurate comparison between your current and maybe future jobs.
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Apr 1, 2015 02:18
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I want to thank everyone in this thread for their advice (even if it wasn't directly given to me). It's seriously a great resource. After all the stalling and not budging on my offer, my company came back today with the $3k/year increase I was looking for. I'm going to sleep on it, but I'm really excited and will most likely be accepting the offer. Thanks so much guys. 
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Apr 1, 2015 02:46
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C-Euro posted:Speaking of recruiters, I might have an interesting salary negotiation coming up. I got contacted by one with an opening in my industry to do way more interesting work than what I have now. On top of that, the pay is insane- I make $19/hr now and the pay rate on the listing is $42/hr Sounds like a chicken landed in your lap, plucked all its own feathers, and cut off its own head. You don't quite have a meal yet, but you're drat close. I advise you to keep cool, because there's basically two ways this opportunity goes south for you: 1) You're being engaged to serve as competition for their first choice candidate to bring that candidate's price down. 2) You let them think that they're wildly overpaying for your labor. You can't do anything about the first choice except for being awesome and ending up their new first choice candidate. For the second, if you talk about the money they are offering enthusiastically, what you currently make, or get too glassy eyed with the position because of the good pay, it can tip your hand. If you only have 18 months of work experience you are probably underpaid; so here's your chance to address that, but it's also not like they're making a great offer, they're making a better than underpaid offer. Adopt the mindset that their offer is something you can work with. Given the absolute improvement it represents I agree that you should know when you've won. Also discuss things like PTO and insurance benefits. See if they'll give you anything in these dimensions above their original offer. Negotiating about benefits usually indicates that you're both in the same ball park on pay and that the deal can probably get closed. Congratulations on the opportunity, good luck on turning it into material improvement!
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Apr 1, 2015 14:15
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Sounds like a chicken landed in your lap, plucked all its own feathers, and cut off its own head. You don't quite have a meal yet, but you're drat close. Thanks, though now I'm worried because after telling a co-worker about it yesterday, she talked to me today about getting the same e-mail last night for the same position  She doesn't have the degree or previous work experience they're calling for (and she's going to grad school this fall anyway) but that seems to indicate the recruiters are just shooting this out much wider than I had hoped. My only solace is that they're calling for instrumentation knowledge of something I've never seen used in our industry, and anyone who wanted to go into this industry never needed to learn it in school (I only got exposed to it via a strange twist of fate in school). Fingers crossed!
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Apr 2, 2015 01:23
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*edited to remove bit of TMI* If I get what I think is a very good offer should I still try to squeeze out an extra thousand bucks or week of vacation? My current thinking is to push for a month of "pre-cation" where I could get insurance and a signing bonus or something so I could live for a month with my family. Hufflepuff or bust! fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Apr 5, 2015 |
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Apr 4, 2015 05:14
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I'm beginning the negotiation process this week. I've never had to negotiate before - my previous jobs have been massive salary bumps. This time it's different. I'm currently a systems/network admin making $82,500, 3 weeks PTO (vacation, sick, bereavement - pretty much everything), 401(k) with 3% employer match, and I pay approximately $300/month for health and dental for myself, my wife, and my son. I am the final candidate for the Director of IT position for a municipality. They have a published max of $85,000. Starting vacation is 2 weeks, then after 5 years gets bumped to 3, and after 10, 4. I would also accrue 12 days of sick time per year. Because this is a municipal position, I'd be entitled to state retirement benefits. I'd contribute 7% gross, while my employer would contribute almost 11%. Health insurance would be pretty cheap (I'd be responsible for 10% or less of the premium), but don't have the exact figures just yet. I am the finalist for this position. There is no one else under consideration right now. I have already been told in no uncertain terms that they cannot go above $85k (and it's specifically stated as the max in the job posting), so that's where I began. They also insisted on supplying them with my current salary, to which I replied, "I'm sorry, but I cannot disclose that. I hope that we can move forward as I feel I have a lot to bring to the table." They haven't given me any sort of official offer yet, so I haven't had to counter. When I do start the process, I'm going to really push for the $85k, plus an extra week of vacation. Is it OK to ask that the earned time increases as well? For example, 3 weeks for years 0-5, 4 weeks from 6-10, etc. I'd be willing to trade 5 days of sick time for 5 days of vacation time - I rarely get sick. I'll update once I get more info!
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Apr 6, 2015 20:21
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Unless you hate your current job, you might as well shoot for the moon since it isn't a big jump anyway.
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Apr 6, 2015 21:00
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They are pushing back hard on the current salary thing. Debating whether or not to cough it up - there's such a small difference between what I make now and their ceiling that it may just be worth disclosing it.
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Apr 6, 2015 21:31
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Do not disclose! Everything in this thread screams don't shoot first and at all. If thy can't budge on salary try and get other compensation.
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Apr 6, 2015 21:41
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The feedback I'm getting is that they may consider my reluctance to divulge that as a failure to submit a completed application and will not take this any further.
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Apr 6, 2015 21:43
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The general rule is don't disclose, but that doesn't mean never disclose. For many state agencies they are pretty well bound into pay grades for certain positions, so there may not be a ton of negotiation possible regardless. And in some situations disclosure of your current salary can work in your favor, particularly if you are already well-compensated and are attempting to push their offer up higher. If you do disclose, consider giving them your total compensation instead of your base salary. You would not be lying, and since benefits and bonuses can vary so much company to company, base salary isn't a very good comparison metric anyway.
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Apr 6, 2015 21:49
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I think disclosing is advantageous in this case, unless they expect you to take a pay cut, as it shows that the maximum salary is a minimal raise. I would not give total compensation as the public sector job likely has better benefits and then they could use the total compensation numbers as a way to attempt to justify a lower salary. If they push back on vacation, I'd definitely bring up that you had 3 weeks at your previous position.
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Apr 6, 2015 22:02
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I think I'll know more tomorrow. They have already played their hand somewhat by saying that the salary was "up to $85k". This isn't a graded position either.
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Apr 6, 2015 22:06
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Richard Noggin posted:I think I'll know more tomorrow. They have already played their hand somewhat by saying that the salary was "up to $85k". This isn't a graded position either. Considering they can't really negotiate due to public sector restrictions, and you aren't getting a big bump with this move, you aren't losing much by telling them. They very well may tank your application because you won't disclose your current salary. Consider this from all directions: - Yielding up this point of negotiating leverage may be the only way to get this position, and it's not a very advantageous point. - They are so process bound that they are willing to pass on their only candidate because you won't tell them what you are making right now, which is not relevant to how much they will pay you. I'd play this one entirely on enthusiasm level. If you're eager to take this position, I'd disclose. If you're ambivalent, or only got into the running because you were curious, I'd definitely not disclose and see where things went from there. My experience working around the public sector is that you will probably have to deal with more inflexible bullshit like this on a regular basis, but your income will be pretty drat secure for a long time if you can get in the door. The motivations of the people you are dealing with are different from those of private industry employers that the aggressive negotiating tactics we recommend will work on, you can't rely on your performance or negotiating acumen as much. You've got to weigh the benefits of your options, and your enthusiasm level for this job, yourself before you commit to any course of action.
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Apr 6, 2015 22:22
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If they had come out and said "the salary for this position is $X", I would have no problem disclosing. When I declined to give it, they replied saying that "they needed it to base their offer".
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Apr 6, 2015 23:07
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Richard Noggin posted:If they had come out and said "the salary for this position is $X", I would have no problem disclosing. When I declined to give it, they replied saying that "they needed it to base their offer". What do you make? What do you think this position should make? If you make 60 and think the job is worth 100 then you make 92k right now.
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Apr 7, 2015 00:32
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No Butt Stuff posted:What do you make? What do you think this position should make? I don't even know where to start with this post.
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Apr 7, 2015 01:59
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Richard Noggin posted:I don't even know where to start with this post. You're right. Much better to give them a lower number so you can get 10% more when they were budgeting 30% more. I'd just deflect as long as possible, but if pressed I'm gonna say a higher number.
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Apr 7, 2015 02:15
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Don't lie - if asked your salary you can redirect to say 'my expectations are' and whatever number you want. But if you say 'my salary is x' then x better be your actual salary. This is the kind of poo poo that reference check companies can verify and you never, ever want to be caught in a lie in your job application process as it gives the company cause to terminate you almost entirely on its own.
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Apr 7, 2015 10:08
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I have no intention of lying anywhere. That's a recipe for disaster.
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Apr 7, 2015 13:20
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asur posted:I think disclosing is advantageous in this case, unless they expect you to take a pay cut, as it shows that the maximum salary is a minimal raise. I would not give total compensation as the public sector job likely has better benefits and then they could use the total compensation numbers as a way to attempt to justify a lower salary. If they push back on vacation, I'd definitely bring up that you had 3 weeks at your previous position. The State Department, for example, has a program whereby they can pay you substantially above grade if your previous job paid higher.
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Apr 7, 2015 13:36
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Richard Noggin posted:The feedback I'm getting is that they may consider my reluctance to divulge that as a failure to submit a completed application and will not take this any further. I highly doubt that. I work for a similar type of agency and the max salary thing could be very real unless they move the classification of the position up to one with a higher pay band. One place where they probably have a lot of flexibility is vacation time. Ask for the top level of vacation time and some banked days as well.
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Apr 7, 2015 15:10
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Richard Noggin posted:I have no intention of lying anywhere. That's a recipe for disaster. Someone above sounded like they were suggesting you should, so I wanted to make sure the point was addressed.
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Apr 7, 2015 16:31
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No contact from them; I'm assuming they're dipping back into the pool.
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Apr 9, 2015 16:32
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I'd appreciate some quick advice. I'm currently working as a full time remote software architect for a large company. My salary is at $130k (about average for nj), my job is extremely laid back and I had planned on milking it for at least the next couple of years. A buddy of mine in nyc started working on a new team at a large startup, and is trying to convince me to come on board. But going from full time remote to full time commuting into nyc is a god drat nightmare. That being said, I'm going through the interview process anyway. He said I will be given stock options as part of the offer, but I got burned working in the city a few years ago with similar promises and I treat that as little more than a pretend bonus. So I have absolutely no problem turning down any offer because of the commute, lack of remote, 12 hour work days, etc unless I can negotiate something truly ridiculous. Judging from the environment I expect them to offer something in the 150-160 range, which wouldn't be worth it for me. 200 is the magic number where I would force myself to set aside my hatred for the city and tough it out for a few years, but I realize this is overly high mainly because of my reluctance. I figured going from an 8 hour work day to 12 hour work day would merit a 1.5x increase in salary (although I am cheating by including commute time). My plan is to try as hard as possible to wow everyone in the interview process, but even if I do that, how can I put out a request like that without offending them? Again I really have nothing to lose, but I would like to negotiate as best as I can, if anything for the practice and challenge of it. FateFree fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Apr 12, 2015 |
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Apr 12, 2015 02:40
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FateFree posted:software architect You're not going to get anywhere near $200K and I wouldn't even waste your time. If they are at all calling themselves a 'startup' still you have no chance of that. I'd be surprised if you even saw $150K.
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Apr 12, 2015 03:14
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You'd be surprised at a lower than average offer for a java architect in nyc?
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Apr 12, 2015 12:52
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FateFree posted:You'd be surprised at a lower than average offer for a java architect in nyc? If you were going into finance, sure, it'd be well below average. Going into a self-identified startup? 150K is a pipe dream.
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Apr 12, 2015 14:55
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Yeah you have the potential to make a lot via the equity from the startup but it's more likely they'll pay you less than more, at least in the short term.
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Apr 12, 2015 17:44
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If they get offended by you expressing your salary requirements then you don't want to work there. Working remote has a tangible value, if nothing else in that you do not have to surrender more of your day going to some place to work and have more control of your work environment. Your buddy is trying to recruit you, you didn't try to get them to hire you, so you have more leverage. Ask for what you want and be prepared to say no, especially if they want you to give up telecommuting. Editorializing outside the context of negotiation, I would never take a job at any employer of software developers who does not allow remote without a huge premium being paid for it. You have to give up more of your time, you have to incur costs of transportation and stress. It shows a vast misunderstanding of the work you will be doing on the employers part that will carry to other aspects of your work. And you'll end up only working with, ideally, the best people in an arbitrarily small geographical region, as opposed to the best people who can do the work you're attempting. For my mind, it's basically a non starter.
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Apr 13, 2015 14:36
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So here's a weird one: My mom has been the head administrator of a small suburban church for 28 years. She was hired at $14,000 a year and has received raises tied to inflation bringing her up to a touch over $30,000 today. She never asked for anything extra out of loyalty to the church, but at 57 is starting to realize that there are things she wants to do in retirement that she'll never be able to afford. In order to (negligibly) help, she is doing the books for a property management company for $400/month, and appropriately updated her LinkedIn. Within a month, she received a letter of interest from a headhunter, asking her to come for an interview in an office near the top floor of the nicest highrise in our city. The job would be to manage the property-based assets (ranch-land, apartments) of a rich local family and take stock of the value of possessions like art and jewelry. Apparently she fit exactly what they were looking for: a sharp, established little old lady who wouldn't steal a paperclip. But my mom is terrified. She doesn't know where to start; while she's hired dozens of people in the past, this will be her first time on the other side of the desk since 1987. And I'm not even sure she wants to leave the church. It's been hemorrhaging members for a decade and is weaker financially than ever before, and she keeps saying it's not the right time to leave. But this job has the potential to triple her salary, and I'd really like to encourage her to be bold with this. At least to get to the interview. What should she do to prepare?
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Apr 19, 2015 17:28
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These private family companies have a ton of different people to support her. As in, one CPA, one financial planner, and a lawyer. They're most likely looking for someone to handle the drudge work instead of ship them off to the $300+/hr professional.Basically, the chance of her being overwhelmed is pretty doubtful.
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Apr 19, 2015 17:55
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Aliquid posted:So here's a weird one: This seems like it's less about negotiating and more about decision making; by all accounts it sounds like she'll get a cushy job doing something she knows how to do at a much better rate of compensation than she currently experiences. She has to weigh how much her loyalty to a church that is going to inevitably need to let her go, possibly before she is even eligible for social security, is worth. The church hemorrhaging members means they're going to continue to have less money to pay her and most likely eventually let her go. Even if they don't, with her current employment she doesn't have a good position to retire from. If she's nervous about being an interviewee AND is uncertain about what she should do, maybe the best thing she can do is go into the interview and be very frank and honest without spending too much time and energy preparing or grooming her presentation. If she does that and gets an offer, it clearly must have been what she is fated to do. 
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Apr 20, 2015 17:15
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Let's say I am a bonehead who did not find this thread early enough and let my current salary slip before an offer was made. Is there any way to dig out of this hole? Is making an insane counter offer a feasible strategy or just bad form?
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Apr 20, 2015 21:42
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OhHiMaahk posted:Let's say I am a bonehead who did not find this thread early enough and let my current salary slip before an offer was made. Is there any way to dig out of this hole? Is making an insane counter offer a feasible strategy or just bad form? Nope, you're hosed.
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Apr 20, 2015 21:52
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