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FMA03 is my go-to intro anime, since so much of it is very, very western to begin with (it's basically what you get if you mash up Harry Potter and Indiana Jones). It's fun at the beginning but deals with more emotionally resonant themes as the show progresses; and most critically, no weird embarrassing fanservice.
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Apr 2, 2015 05:24
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PresidentBeard posted:Sorry for using hyperbolic language. I was referring to the hands changing people's body to produce horned babies, which is fundamentally rape. Also I don't remember diapers but I heard the manga included them in some capacity. I guess? Rape is a big ole loaded word, so I don't like to throw it around for stuff that doesn't play as rape. The monsters passing their genes through the air is literally that: like passing on ebola or something. People don't even notice that they've caught it and it won't affect them until they conceive a child themselves of their own free will, so eh. DStecks posted:FMA03 is my go-to intro anime, since so much of it is very, very western to begin with (it's basically what you get if you mash up Harry Potter and Indiana Jones). It's fun at the beginning but deals with more emotionally resonant themes as the show progresses; and most critically, no weird embarrassing fanservice. Yup, I was going to say that Fullmetal Alchemist was the populist fun gateway title at the time that Elfen Lied was the "IT'S FOR ADULTS" title. Now it's Attack on Titan and Madoka Magica. At least across that sampling, it's three good shows out of four?
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Apr 2, 2015 05:25
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Jay O posted:I guess? Rape is a big ole loaded word, so I don't like to throw it around for stuff that doesn't play as rape. The monsters passing their genes through the air is literally that: like passing on ebola or something. People don't even notice that they've caught it and it won't affect them until they conceive a child themselves of their own free will, so eh. You're forcing people to carry children that aren't there own. That's not okay no matter how you cut it. Also the claim that the monsters only became monstrous after abuse is wrong. Lucy wasn't in the labs until after she had killed the many character's sister, dad, and a whole class room full of kids. As far as the show indicated the evil scientist people hadn't formed as a proper organization until after she murdered a whole bunch of people. All of the horned girls we see that were in the lab from a young age were evil but all Stockholmy with the scientists. Which really raises an entirely different misogynistic theme wherein a woman left to her own devices becomes a creature unable to control her passions until taught the error of her ways by the male main character.
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Apr 2, 2015 05:30
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PresidentBeard posted:You're forcing people to carry children that aren't there own. That's not okay no matter how you cut it. No, of course it's not okay, it's a gross and stupid device written into a bad show. I just wouldn't call it rape. It's an airborne disease that affects the carrier's genes. But the children the person has is their own, and their mate's own as well. The child has the genes of both the mother and father, but also the special magic "next evolution" gene slapped in there on top of that. They're not genetically divorced from either the human mom or dad, though. Lucy was first abandoned and mistreated by her parents and the other schoolchildren before the scientists entered the picture. The haunting instinctual visions she gets literally do not pop up until after she is harassed and demeaned by others. The instinct to pass on her superior telekinesis genes is native, but the "kill normies" one is a perversion of it that comes from the child abuse. The idea was that it could have been a peaceful mutation but wasn't, because of badly written prejudice. You're right about the second part though, the Stockholm Girls are another layer of "ew" that appears in the series.
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Apr 2, 2015 05:38
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I got my roommate into anime with Fate/Zero, and I've noticed a lot of other people who aren't really into anime have seen it and liked it too. Which, on the one hand, I love because I love Fate/Zero and Fate in general. On the other hand I always have to worry about recommending it to people because of all the stuff in the original VN. Thankfully the Unlimited Blade Worls anime is really good and cuts out most of the rampant sexism.
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Apr 2, 2015 05:40
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 Thanks for the lowdown, Jay O. I'm gonna go back to just reading the thread. edit: also, that The Last Man on Planet Earth film is so drat stupid. Ryuga Death fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 05:41
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Ryuga Death posted:
I am always happy to save you time by sharing my useless weeb knowledge! 
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Apr 2, 2015 05:43
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Jay O posted:Lucy was first abandoned and mistreated by her parents and the other schoolchildren before the scientists entered the picture. The haunting instinctual visions she gets literally do not pop up until after she is harassed and demeaned by others. The instinct to pass on her superior telekinesis genes is native, but the "kill normies" one is a perversion of it that comes from the child abuse. The idea was that it could have been a peaceful mutation but wasn't, because of badly written prejudice. You're right about the second part though, the Stockholm Girls are another layer of "ew" that appears in the series. People becoming "evil" as a result of abuse is a lovely gross contrivance, and didn't meaningfully connect to the resulting violence in a believable way. It was just an excuse by the writer to create an abused girl that needs comforting and give paper thing excuse for her actions. No other abused character in the show became a serial killer and none of the other murder happy people got similar moral justification. It just reaks of the sort of myopic view so many bad anime, and really bad media period, have toward their protagonists' morality. If it's the protagonist doing something bad it's justified, if it's anyone else it's because they're inherently evil.
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Apr 2, 2015 06:04
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PresidentBeard posted:People becoming "evil" as a result of abuse is a lovely gross contrivance, and didn't meaningfully connect to the resulting violence in a believable way. It was just an excuse by the writer to create an abused girl that needs comforting and give paper thing excuse for her actions. No other abused character in the show became a serial killer and none of the other murder happy people got similar moral justification. It just reaks of the sort of myopic view so many bad anime, and really bad media period, have toward their protagonists' morality. If it's the protagonist doing something bad it's justified, if it's anyone else it's because they're inherently evil. You know we're in total agreement on this, right? I never said it was good writing, I'm not defending it in any way. I'm just clarifying what happens in the story and what it was meant to convey. Lucy wasn't born evil and her murderin' isn't meant to be justified or innate. She was born innocent and was "corrupted through abuse," so her murderin' is meant to be tragic love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin-style pity. It's loving terrible but that's the intent. I agree with you 100% that it's thematically lovely though, I certainly wasn't arguing otherwise.
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Apr 2, 2015 06:09
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Yeah sorry I'm just bad about rambling and clarifying.
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Apr 2, 2015 06:11
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Jay O posted:Yup, I was going to say that Fullmetal Alchemist was the populist fun gateway title at the time that Elfen Lied was the "IT'S FOR ADULTS" title. Now it's Attack on Titan and Madoka Magica. At least across that sampling, it's three good shows out of four? Man, I can't really argue with FMA being a populist fun title, but if you're presenting it in that light you're gonna run into some rough spots once you hit Night of the Chimera's Cry and the tail end of the series. Also, I'm glad that me giving up on Elfen Lied in disgust isn't just because I'm incapable of appreciating art. Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 06:29
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Jsor posted:Man, I can't really argue with FMA being a populist fun title, but if you're presenting it in that light you're gonna run into some rough spots once you hit Night of the Chimera's Cry and the tail end of the series. Nerds have a long, proud history of finding violence and tragedy incredibly fun!  Attack on Titan ain't sunshine lollipops n' rainbows either. Both shows are complex and thoughtful because they're well-written, but they're also not anything that a 13-year old couldn't understand and follow. There's also artistry and social commentary there, but not really more than you would find in a big-budget four-quadrant film with smart writing. That kind of thing.
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Apr 2, 2015 06:33
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I remember scrolling through Netflix a couple years back, seeing Elfen Lied on streaming, and wondering what is this doing here.
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Apr 2, 2015 07:02
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Jay O posted:Nerds have a long, proud history of finding violence and tragedy incredibly fun! I've always seen Attack on Titan as the successor to the space vacated by Fullmetal Alchemist. Both of them are ultimately Shounen series, but they're smartly written shounen series with developed settings that have a creative freeform style of action choreography. Now if I could only make myself actually like the majority of AoT's cast, then I could actually bring myself to watch it or recommend it.
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Apr 2, 2015 07:06
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I couldn't watch Attack on Titan for the lamest, shallowest reason. The first episode's animation just felt weird to me. It was really off-putting. The show was just so still, like I was watching a slideshow that sometimes decided to move. It's not like no other cartoons or anime have that problem, but it really jumped out at me in Attack on Titan. (This is during the talky bits, the action scenes were animated just fine, almost making me wonder if it was a budget issue or something).
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Apr 2, 2015 07:08
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Jsor posted:I couldn't watch Attack on Titan for the lamest, shallowest reason. The first episode's animation just felt weird to me. It was really off-putting. The show was just so still, like I was watching a slideshow that sometimes decided to move. It's not like no other cartoons or anime have that problem, but it really jumped out at me in Attack on Titan. (This is during the talky bits, the action scenes were animated just fine, almost making me wonder if it was a budget issue or something). (It's the giant-rear end thick black outlines around the characters that separate them from the background. Bothered me a lot too, and took me a while to figure out what was causing it. It was meant to be an artistic decision to resemble the original comic art, but presumably someone eventually told director Araki that it looked kinda lovely, because they stop doing it almost completely after the first couple episodes.)
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Apr 2, 2015 07:15
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I can't watch Attack on Titan because no one acts like a human being and all the drama is super contrived without an ounce of subtlety.
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Apr 2, 2015 07:18
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Jimbot posted:No joke, if someone wants to watch anime, I start them with something dumb. The first couple Dragonball Z movies are usually a good starting point because they're light on plot and big on action and spectacle. The combined dumbness of them eases people into it. We laugh and joke about it and generally have a good time. Then maybe Ninja Scroll then on to The Slayers. It was kind of the route I went and it seems to work. I'd put Speed Racer in there but it's pretty dated and kind of through cultural osmosis has become the butt of holyshittheytalksofastdotheyevenhavetimetobreathwiththespeedtheyneedtotalkat?!?!?! jokes. Substitute Redline for Speed Racer, if they're primed for dumb stuff. That movie's great. IronicDongz posted:I can't watch Attack on Titan because no one acts like a human being and all the drama is super contrived without an ounce of subtlety. I watched it solely for the goofy-looking Titans, so it bewildered me when people were really invested in the characters and plot. A lot of them read the manga, though, so that might be it.
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Apr 2, 2015 07:52
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In Attack on Titan, there's actually quite a lot to the characters in terms of motivation and personality and how their relationships with one another works. It's kind of important since there is an emphasis on teamwork to take down man eating titan assholes. It's never a one man show even though there's a clear main character. And unlike other series with huge casts (Naruto, Bleach, One Piece), its huge cast doesn't feel overly bloated. That being said, those qualities doesn't mean that it guarantees likeability. Speaking of animes to recommend, I wonder how anyone ever gets anyone else to watch Gintama. It's amazing in the stupidest ways possible, but to explain the depth of it's insanity is kind of hard...
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Apr 2, 2015 08:02
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The only anime that I've watched lately is JoJo which I've finally started checking out. And I'm happy to stick with it unless a new Cromartie High School or Slayers comes out.
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Apr 2, 2015 09:28
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What got me into anime was The Girl Who Leapt Through Time which still one of my favorite movies. I also appreciate you letting me know that I should never even consider watching Elfen Lied.
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Apr 2, 2015 10:11
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I've never seen Elfen Lied but I discovered it back when I still went on TV Tropes (who seemed to love it, predictably).
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Apr 2, 2015 10:15
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SatansBestBuddy posted:Yeah, that's why it's mostly recommended for people who aren't into anime as a kinda gateway drug. It's not the most hardcore poo poo in the coat pocket but it's interesting enough that people will ask what else is in there. The second season of SAC is great, with way superior plotting to season 1. It's not as strong, but it's a great portrayal of escalating conflict.
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Apr 2, 2015 10:28
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Attack on Titan has one of the titans literally designed like Brock Lesnar so that show is cool in my book
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Apr 2, 2015 11:21
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Jay O posted:EVERYTHING IN THIS VIDEO IS A WHOLE DECADE OLD, ACCEPT IT. You mentioning Beck in that video, by a weird association (partially through one of your old videos) had me listening to Pikachu's Goodbye again. Did you know that Andrew Rannells was James in Pokemon Live? (yes, this post was just an excuse to post that factoid) I watched Elfen Lied on recommendation from a friend. I no longer took his recommendations, which was partly why it took me a few years to watch so many anime I now call favorites because the guy who thought I'd like Elfen Lied recommended it. My general recommendation for people who don't watch is FMA or Ouran, depending on what they're looking for. Two of my favorites, and definitely the two of my favorites that don't rely on other people seeing other shows/trends. Senerio fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 11:41
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Jsor posted:Man, I can't really argue with FMA being a populist fun title, but if you're presenting it in that light you're gonna run into some rough spots once you hit Night of the Chimera's Cry and the tail end of the series. I think this is part of what makes it work as an introductory anime, though. Setting aside Nina and Alexander, the show transitions into darker material fairly smoothly, so FMA03 functions as a combination "anime is wicked fun" and "anime is more than just silly cartoons" title.
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Apr 2, 2015 12:11
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Goddamn, I'm glad the anime I latched onto in High School was .hack//SIGN. That one is alright, right? I mean, I'm pretty sure the worst thing to come out of that was a couple of grindy, dull video games.
i am tim! fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 13:25
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DStecks posted:I think this is part of what makes it work as an introductory anime, though. Setting aside Nina and Alexander, the show transitions into darker material fairly smoothly, so FMA03 functions as a combination "anime is wicked fun" and "anime is more than just silly cartoons" title. *cold open on an experiment gone wrong resulting in one dead kid, one mutilated kid, one horrific reanimated corpse, and a lotta blood*
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Apr 2, 2015 14:08
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Guys we have an entire anime forum for this
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Apr 2, 2015 15:08
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FlamingLiberal posted:Guys we have an entire anime forum for this Dehumanize yourself and face to weeaboo. i am tim! posted:Goddamn, I'm glad the anime I latched onto in High School was .hack//SIGN. That one is alright, right? I mean, I'm pretty sure the worst thing to come out of that was a couple of grindy, dull video games. .hack//SIGN's biggest crime was boredom. And even then it made up for that with bitchin' music.
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Apr 2, 2015 15:32
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Reading about Elfen Lied makes me thankful that it mostly flew under the radar for me. I did see DVDs released here in the UK, but it must've been some time later. Never watched beyond the first couple of episodes, and only read summaries of the anime and manga after that. The mention of diapers is probably referring to a girl who only appears in the manga. She was rendered practically incontinent because her father beat her for trying to become an opera singer. This is probably why I never bothered about Elfen Lied at all.
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Apr 2, 2015 15:42
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SatansBestBuddy posted:*cold open on an experiment gone wrong resulting in one dead kid, one mutilated kid, one horrific reanimated corpse, and a lotta blood* DStecks posted:I think this is part of what makes it work as an introductory anime, though. Setting aside Nina and Alexander, the show transitions into darker material fairly smoothly, so FMA03 functions as a combination "anime is wicked fun" and "anime is more than just silly cartoons" title.
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Apr 2, 2015 15:51
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the best animes are cowboy bebop, paranoia agent, and g gundam
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Apr 2, 2015 15:53
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i am tim! posted:Goddamn, I'm glad the anime I latched onto in High School was .hack//SIGN. That one is alright, right? I mean, I'm pretty sure the worst thing to come out of that was a couple of grindy, dull video games. It's really better if you just accept that High School you had horrible taste. If by some chance it turns out something you liked in High School is actually good, well that's probably just a coincidence. It's not High School you's fault, they had way less life experience and their brain/body was actively loving with them.
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Apr 2, 2015 16:09
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I started watching Elfen Lied because I saw a gif of the nana scene (the part where she gets her limbs ripped off) on somethingawful. Was it bad? Yeah. Did I enjoy it for it's shock value? Sorta. Yeah I admit it, it held my interest. But I never fooled myself into thinking it was high art. It was schlock, but a lot of anime is schlock. I don't remember much about it other than a few of the scenes. The part where the puppy gets beat to death was pretty memorable. I had been a fan of anime for a long time before I had seen Elfen Lied though. I used to watch nothing but anime when I was in college (around the time cowboy bebop and ghost in the shell first came out), but sort of stopped watching it after I graduated. Elfen Lied came out around the time I had more or less stopped watching anime. It didn't exactly get me back into anime, but it was a thing that I watched.
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Apr 2, 2015 16:14
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Oxxidation posted:.hack//SIGN's biggest crime was boredom. And even then it made up for that with bitchin' music. It also had amazing visuals for the time but yeah the plot was just plodding and didnt have much payoff. I also partly blame it for the reprehensible poo poo that is Sword Art Online.
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Apr 2, 2015 16:21
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I suppose I have bad taste because I enjoy Boondock Saints. I'm not going to call it a great film or hold it up as any sort of artistic masterpiece. I just enjoy trashy films, and I found it pretty entertaining. Though I assume you're talking about people who cling to the movie as some great achievement in cinema and totally an underrated gem. and not just people who like dumb schlock every now and then.
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Apr 2, 2015 17:58
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The second season of SAC is great, with way superior plotting to season 1. It's not as strong, but it's a great portrayal of escalating conflict. (Sorry for the potential derail, but yeah, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex-2nd Gig resonated extremely deeply and is one of my top anime series for obvious reasons. I wonder if anyone else who's a child of immigrants like me found resonance in that season as well, though.) Benny the Snake fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 18:14
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SAC as a whole is kind of better than the movie, simply because they had a lot more time to explore the characters.
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Apr 2, 2015 18:24
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Arcsquad12 posted:I suppose I have bad taste because I enjoy Boondock Saints. I'm not going to call it a great film or hold it up as any sort of artistic masterpiece. I just enjoy trashy films, and I found it pretty entertaining. Though I assume you're talking about people who cling to the movie as some great achievement in cinema and totally an underrated gem. and not just people who like dumb schlock every now and then. There's a difference between liking something and claiming that it's good. You can like whatever you like, and nobody can take that away from you; but if you're going to claim something is good, then you're opening up a discussion.
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Apr 2, 2015 18:25
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