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Carnotaurus posted:Marty Bergen was loving insane. I almost posted about Marty Bergen a while back. The Sports Illustrated link is dead on Wikipedia, but they have a pretty decent story on Bergen's deteriorating mental state. Sticking with sports, the 1977 plane crash that killed nearly all of the Evansville Purple Aces basketball team. "Nearly all" meant that someone was spared, the team's statistician for home games. He had been a player, but was out because of an ankle injury. quote:There was, though, another terrible turn of fate. Cut from the team because of an ankle injury, UE freshman David Furr, the Aces’ statistician, was not on the plane. Two weeks after the crash he and his 16-year-old brother were driving home from a holiday basketball tournament and were killed in a car accident in Newton, Ill.
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Apr 3, 2015 04:45
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RC and Moon Pie posted:I almost posted about Marty Bergen a while back. The Sports Illustrated link is dead on Wikipedia, but they have a pretty decent story on Bergen's deteriorating mental state. That's some final destination poo poo
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Apr 3, 2015 06:21
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Well, I have it on good authority from FaygoLuvers.net that the guy who got murdered was a Juggalo. So maybe it's a neutral score on that one? I had a few friends try to spin this like he killed this guy for being a Juggalo. Yeah, go to all the trouble of getting on the bus hoping to see one of them paint wearing motherfuckers and cut his tongue out.
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Apr 3, 2015 07:03
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Warm und Fuzzy posted:Let's bring spooky back. quote:"Science is the best game around," says Learned. "You don't know what the rules are, or if you can win. Science is Calvinball.
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Apr 3, 2015 07:54
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Carnotaurus posted:Marty Bergen was loving insane. "such force that he nearly beheaded himself" Jesus Christ I didn't know it was possible to do that with a straight razor 
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Apr 3, 2015 08:51
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:None Dare Call It a Conspiracy: Who was behind the Moscow apartment bombings? Pro click and one of the more depressing things I've read. Best part was the president of the Russian parliament announcing the bombing of an apartment building three days before it happened. It seems the secret service - which probably did the bombing - goofed and gave him the briefing at the wrong time.
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Apr 3, 2015 11:04
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Warm und Fuzzy posted:Let's bring spooky back. please be aliens please be aliens please be aliens please be aliens please be aliens (It won't be aliens, but as long as it's a new natural phenomena, and not just one of our spy satellites or some poo poo, then that's pretty cool.)
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Apr 3, 2015 12:00
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Jonas Albrecht posted:For me, the most baffling and stupid move in this comes at 6:21, when, in an attempt to discredit Mark Rathburn, shows a normal looking house with the voiceover smugly declaring "Here's where he lived after he was removed from the church. A far cry from the church's workers paradise". Rathbun used to live near me. He had a Scientology funded camera crew following him around for a long time ("Squirrel Busters", you can see their videos on YouTube). It was an unwelcome controversy in the community. One of the crew used to buy weed from me. He wasn't a Scientologist. He said it was just a job, but that they were absolutely hired to harass(his words) Rathbun in an effort to get him to lose his temper and end up looking crazy.
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Apr 3, 2015 20:10
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The Sword and Scale podcast covered the Li thing. It was pretty interesting and they talked to the mother of the victim about how she felt about Li's privileges. Both she and the host think it's an abrogation of justice (I agree in this case) but it does raise interesting questions about culpability and punishment in such serious cases.
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Apr 3, 2015 20:56
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Frog Act posted:Both she and the host think it's an abrogation of justice (I agree in this case) but it does raise interesting questions about culpability and punishment in such serious cases. I'm curious why you'd feel that way. He was an undiagnosed schizophrenic having a sudden and severe episode. It's hard to find a more ideal example of someone not criminally responsible.
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Apr 4, 2015 13:42
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TKIY posted:I'm curious why you'd feel that way. He was an undiagnosed schizophrenic having a sudden and severe episode. Because people don't like the idea of living in a world where bad things happen and aren't really anyone's fault; much easier and safer-feeling to say it was somehow his responsibility or he should've been able to prevent it or if we lock him up bad things won't happen anymore.
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Apr 5, 2015 01:00
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Frog Act posted:The Sword and Scale podcast covered the Li thing. It was pretty interesting and they talked to the mother of the victim about how she felt about Li's privileges. Both she and the host think it's an abrogation of justice (I agree in this case) but it does raise interesting questions about culpability and punishment in such serious cases. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/greyhound-killer-believed-man-he-beheaded-was-an-alien-1.1131575 "In the interview with Summerville on Saturday, Li said he feels sorry for what he did and doubts he will ever know happiness again." 
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Apr 5, 2015 21:09
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JibbaJabberwocky posted:http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/greyhound-killer-believed-man-he-beheaded-was-an-alien-1.1131575 Maybe he should stop giving himself schizophrenia then.
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Apr 5, 2015 22:21
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall#Estimated_casualtiesquote:
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Apr 5, 2015 22:22
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Good thing the Americans nuked Japan twice instead
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Apr 5, 2015 22:43
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RC and Moon Pie posted:Sticking with sports, the 1977 plane crash that killed nearly all of the Evansville Purple Aces basketball team. God must have lost a lot of money gambling on them with lucifer.
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Apr 5, 2015 22:58
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AnonSpore posted:Good thing the Americans nuked Japan twice instead That's the really terrible thing about the nukes. Not only did they kill countless innocent civilians, but if they didn't things probably would have been a million times worse, especially for civilians. The decision to use the nukes was still the wrong choice, but none the less, it was an awful situation.
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Apr 5, 2015 23:03
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Dylanthulhu posted:Well, I have it on good authority from FaygoLuvers.net that the guy who got murdered was a Juggalo. So maybe it's a neutral score on that one? I had a few friends try to spin this like he killed this guy for being a Juggalo. Yeah, go to all the trouble of getting on the bus hoping to see one of them paint wearing motherfuckers and cut his tongue out. It makes me wonder if the victim had time to appreciate the irony of being murdered by a twiztid hatchetman. Was it a weird sort of fulfillment or was it a horrifying karmic nightmare, like one of those Christian videos where a greaser tells his pastor to suck a dick mere minutes before his t-bird stalls on the train tracks and it cuts to a "the end" title card with little flames licking at the letters? We'll never know
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Apr 6, 2015 00:39
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WickedHate posted:
Truman's reaction to the news that the Us had just killed tens of thousands is also quite unnerving: quote:‘As the Augusta [the ship carrying Truman back from Potsdam] approached the New Jersey coast on August 6, Map Room watch officer Captain Frank Graham brought first word that the atomic bomb had been dropped on Hiroshima. Ten minutes later a cable from Stimson reported that the bombing had been even more “conspicuous” than in New Mexico. “This is the greatest thing in history”, Truman exclaimed to Graham, and then raced about the ship to spread the news, insisting that he had never made a happier announcement. “We have won the gamble”, he told the assembled and cheering crew. The President’s behaviour lacked remorse, compassion or humility in the wake of nearly incomprehensible destruction—about 80,000 dead at once, and tens of thousands dying of radiation.'
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Apr 6, 2015 02:34
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TKIY posted:I'm curious why you'd feel that way. He was an undiagnosed schizophrenic having a sudden and severe episode. because he beheaded a guy and ate parts of his organs
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Apr 6, 2015 02:41
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Eh, I think the atomic bombs were probably the way to go. We can argue over the choice of targets all day, but Japan would have been in way worse shape if there was a prolonged battle for the entire island. Its been a long time since my History of WW1 and 2 class, but from what I'm remembering Japan wasn't even thinking of surrendering seriously until they got hit by those things.
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Apr 6, 2015 03:14
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Solice Kirsk posted:Eh, I think the atomic bombs were probably the way to go. We can argue over the choice of targets all day, but Japan would have been in way worse shape if there was a prolonged battle for the entire island. Its been a long time since my History of WW1 and 2 class, but from what I'm remembering Japan wasn't even thinking of surrendering seriously until they got hit by those things. I don't disagree that things might have been worse, but I wouldn't sacrafice people on a weekly basis even if it protected my town from hurricanes or something. Killing innocent people just isn't right.
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Apr 6, 2015 03:25
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Solice Kirsk posted:Eh, I think the atomic bombs were probably the way to go. We can argue over the choice of targets all day, but Japan would have been in way worse shape if there was a prolonged battle for the entire island. Its been a long time since my History of WW1 and 2 class, but from what I'm remembering Japan wasn't even thinking of surrendering seriously until they got hit by those things. And even then, we still got poo poo like this. Fanatical dedication can only be stopped by the heaviest hand possible it seems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroo_Onoda
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Apr 6, 2015 03:27
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Sappo569 posted:And even then, we still got poo poo like this. Fanatical dedication can only be stopped by the heaviest hand possible it seems He never knew anything about the bomb. He was isolated from Japan and gave up as soon as it was confirmed by his old CO things were over. I don't really see that as fanatical, just not believing the enemy when they say "No really, things are totally over, pinkie promise".
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Apr 6, 2015 03:30
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Solice Kirsk posted:Eh, I think the atomic bombs were probably the way to go. We can argue over the choice of targets all day, but Japan would have been in way worse shape if there was a prolonged battle for the entire island. Its been a long time since my History of WW1 and 2 class, but from what I'm remembering Japan wasn't even thinking of surrendering seriously until they got hit by those things.
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Apr 6, 2015 03:50
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zh1 posted:this is completely wrong Take a look at what happened to Okinawa and think about that happening all over Japan. There would have been millions of dead civilians. Maybe you wanna post something explaining your stance and why I'm wrong?
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Apr 6, 2015 04:06
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WickedHate posted:He never knew anything about the bomb. He was isolated from Japan and gave up as soon as it was confirmed by his old CO things were over. I don't really see that as fanatical, just not believing the enemy when they say "No really, things are totally over, pinkie promise".
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Apr 6, 2015 04:25
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IShallRiseAgain posted:lol, no. The guy murdered innocent people and caused two of his men to die because he couldn't admit that Japan lost the war. There was more than enough evidence that the war was over. The guy was an rear end in a top hat. He wasn't worse then any other average soldier would have been in that situation.
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Apr 6, 2015 04:28
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Solice Kirsk posted:Take a look at what happened to Okinawa and think about that happening all over Japan. There would have been millions of dead civilians. Maybe you wanna post something explaining your stance and why I'm wrong? IIRC Japan estimated up to 20 million dead in an invasion.
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Apr 6, 2015 04:34
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WickedHate posted:He wasn't worse then any other average soldier would have been in that situation. Except him and his men were the only example of Japanese soldiers who refused to surrender for 30 years. -edit Ok, apparently there was one other dude. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teruo_Nakamura IShallRiseAgain has a new favorite as of 04:43 on Apr 6, 2015 |
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Apr 6, 2015 04:37
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Frog Act posted:because he beheaded a guy and ate parts of his organs Yup he sure did. How is it his fault though, exactly?
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Apr 6, 2015 04:56
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WickedHate posted:He never knew anything about the bomb. He was isolated from Japan and gave up as soon as it was confirmed by his old CO things were over. I don't really see that as fanatical, just not believing the enemy when they say "No really, things are totally over, pinkie promise". I can get not knowing the bomb went off, but to hold out for +25 years is a little much don't you think?
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Apr 6, 2015 05:04
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TKIY posted:Yup he sure did. How is it his fault though, exactly? well he did it with his hands so i think you can dole out a little bit of blame on account of that
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Apr 6, 2015 06:08
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Sappo569 posted:I can get not knowing the bomb went off, but to hold out for +25 years is a little much don't you think? War is rough. With the natural mistrust of the "enemy" and the general nature of Imparial Japan's military(so basically, Imperial Japan) I don't think he can be held fully accountable. There's a reason the Phillipines gave him a pardon. The innocent blood he spilt is on the hands of the people running the war, who caused all that to happen. It's not like he was running around raping women or gunning people down in the streets.
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Apr 6, 2015 06:32
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Using nuclear weapons against Japan was the only choice, and the right one at that. Japan was absolutely not going to surrender any other way. Remember, they chose to eat a nuclear weapon and continue fighting rather than surrender immediately. They took the second one and there were a substantial number of influential government officials who STILL didn't want to surrender. It wasn't until we threatened to continue doing that every other day AND get the Soviet Union to invade that Japan unconditionally surrendered.
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Apr 6, 2015 06:43
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HonorableTB posted:Using nuclear weapons against Japan was the only choice, and the right one at that. Japan was absolutely not going to surrender any other way. Remember, they chose to eat a nuclear weapon and continue fighting rather than surrender immediately. They took the second one and there were a substantial number of influential government officials who STILL didn't want to surrender. This is incorrect.
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Apr 6, 2015 06:45
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Spoeank posted:This is incorrect. How is this incorrect? What sources do you have that refute this? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_of_Japan The Japanese had their last hope of unconditional surrender crushed when the USSR invaded Manchuria and the government continued trying to fight even after the second atomic bomb was detonated by attempting a coup d'etat. Everything I wrote was true. HonorableTB has a new favorite as of 06:55 on Apr 6, 2015 |
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Apr 6, 2015 06:51
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Japan was going to surrender once the Soviets pushed their poo poo in, the problem was that then the Soviets would have control of Japan. A large reason why the nukes were even dropped were because James Byrnes was a racist, manipulative poo poo and because after they spent a ton of money on dropping the bombs, not dropping them & going through with Downfall would have been politically disastrous. I don't have a wikipedia link for this but you can control + f for Hasegawa in the article you linked. I got my opinion by studying directly under him for ~4 months in college. It was almost a decade and two careers ago though so I don't have any of my primary source materials anymore to reference. Spoeank has a new favorite as of 07:09 on Apr 6, 2015 |
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Apr 6, 2015 07:05
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Spoeank posted:Japan was going to surrender once the Soviets pushed their poo poo in, the problem was that then the Soviets would have control of Japan. A large reason why the nukes were even dropped were because James Byrnes was a racist, manipulative poo poo and because after they spent a ton of money on dropping the bombs, not dropping them & going through with Downfall would have been politically disastrous. Plus you don't have poo poo like that and NOT want to try it out on someone 
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Apr 6, 2015 07:11
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The only reason Japan was still fighting is that they thought they could bring their forces on the mainland to bear if they held out long enough; their hopes of doing that were dashed by the Soviets entering against them. They were already having cities burned down so the nukes were just business as usual. To them it made no difference if it was thousands of incendiary bombs or one nuclear bomb doing the deed. The idea of the US losing hundreds of thousands of soldiers in an invasion was predicated on the idea that Japanese civilians were going to arm themselves with makeshift spears and charge the beaches. If the Japanese were really that fanatical then no number of destroyed cities would have made them surrender. I don't think that the nuclear bombs were necessary, but it was likely that without them another couple of cities would have been burned down by conventional bombs before their surrender anyway. What I don't know is if they were going to surrender without any amount of aerial bombardment.
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Apr 6, 2015 07:52
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