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Maybe thats the wrong way to put it. I guess I wanted to see more of him? They used too deft a hand in regards to him? I don't know, I'm having trouble articulating what I wanted and disliked. No matter what, the way he is used in hotline 2 isn't satisfying to me.
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Apr 3, 2015 02:00
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I kind of have to wonder why they didn't just make the soldier Jacket instead of Beard, I can't think of what was gained by having you play as Beard. They could've thrown in some crazy hallucinations or whatever as you progress to show Jacket's mind gradually unhinging.
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Apr 3, 2015 02:25
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King Vidiot posted:I kind of have to wonder why they didn't just make the soldier Jacket instead of Beard, I can't think of what was gained by having you play as Beard. They could've thrown in some crazy hallucinations or whatever as you progress to show Jacket's mind gradually unhinging. Jacket already had his own entire game and besides, he's in the same unit as Beard. He's the blonde solider that Beard carries out of the power plant. Most of the game is spent on how Jacket's actions effected people anyway. The devs even said that the Fans represent people who want the sequel to be the same as the first game.
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Apr 3, 2015 02:31
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I think having you play as Beard was a good decision. We already knew a fair amount about Jacket but we didn't really understand why he kept hallucinating about this random guy. Doing it this way emphasizes that Jacket spent HM1 stuck in the past, and that he may not understand the difference between his missions on Hawaii and his rampages in Miami. I liked a lot of the ideas in the HM2 story but it ultimately was too disjointed to really follow. The movie star and detective storylines in particular seemed fairly irrelevant and cuttable, but I liked the way the rest of it fit together.
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Apr 3, 2015 03:35
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I liked a lot of the ideas in the HM2 story but it ultimately was too disjointed to really follow. The movie star and detective storylines in particular seemed fairly irrelevant and cuttable, but I liked the way the rest of it fit together.
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Apr 3, 2015 03:55
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Anatharon posted:Of all the complaints about HLM2 I don't think not explaining what was up with Jacket is an accurate one. Even if his story has ended, I really would've loved more Jacket screen time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6smzhTGI0VM :^) Ledgy fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Apr 3, 2015 |
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Apr 3, 2015 06:48
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Just one day too late, but still good. e: Wait what where the heck did this post go?? 
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Apr 3, 2015 06:49
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Geight posted:Just one day too late, but still good. gently caress, the thumbnail wasn't loaded in properly yet, so I removed it one second too late ! Gonna put it back where it belongs.
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Apr 3, 2015 06:54
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Improbable Lobster posted:The devs even said that the Fans represent people who want the sequel to be the same as the first game. I see this quoted a lot but I've never seen a source, where did they say this? Dred Cosmonaut posted:Maybe thats the wrong way to put it. I guess I wanted to see more of him? They used too deft a hand in regards to him? I don't know, I'm having trouble articulating what I wanted and disliked. No matter what, the way he is used in hotline 2 isn't satisfying to me. HM2 acts like Jacket was some kind of action hero instead of a depraved psycho. Which is ironic, because that means the game itself takes the same position as the fans.
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Apr 3, 2015 06:59
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Pirate Jet posted:HM2 acts like Jacket was some kind of action hero instead of a depraved psycho. I don't really think so, the only scene where we see present Jacket is his trial, and it doesn't reveal much. His past as a soldier doesn't make him less hosed up imo, even if his killing spree was revealed to be a revenge fueled mission.
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Apr 3, 2015 07:07
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I don't really like how they explained Jacket's backstory at all. In HM1, he comes off as just some guy who's likely out of his mind, and really good at killing people. While those things are still true, I feel that HM2 makes him... sympathetic? Now that he's a soldier depressed about the loss of his friend, he comes off as someone suffering PTSD, which makes his actions in HM1 too real. It just feels depressing and a little uncomfortable. No longer is Jacket some crazy killer, but a war hero suffering serious mental issues. Which in turn retroactively sours the "it's just a game, didn't you have fun?" outlook HM1 had.
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Apr 3, 2015 07:20
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Ledgy posted:I don't really think so, the only scene where we see present Jacket is his trial, and it doesn't reveal much. His past as a soldier doesn't make him less hosed up imo, even if his killing spree was revealed to be a revenge fueled mission. Yeah, it doesn't really dwell on whether or not Jacket's actions were heroic or anything, so I never really got much of an action hero vibe from him. More ptsd sufferer than anything else. Really, at the end of the day, the only real hero here is Detective Pardo. Goddamn, what an amazing man.  Butt Ghost posted:Which in turn retroactively sours the "it's just a game, didn't you have fun?" outlook HM1 had. I like Jacket's backstory in terms of like, overarching plot between the two games, because it really is a nice tight way to explain his story, but yeah, it doesn't quite mesh with that whole theme in the first game.
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Apr 3, 2015 07:33
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...so if Jacket was a model employee for 50B with nothing but hatred and contempt for the rooskies and a devotion to 50B during his time in the war... Why did the janitors have him get shot by Richter?! #askquestions 
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Apr 3, 2015 14:42
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He failed to stop the Biker and was in the same room as a computer with super volatile 50 Blessings information. When you have a security risk like that, what's one masked maniac among dozens? I also just realized that the cheery pretense of the 50B phone handlers is based on Ghost Wolves radio code.
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Apr 3, 2015 15:05
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Probably since rescuing the woman was having a positive effect on his life. You could see things getting tidier and nicer and it wouldn't be surprising if Jacket would want to stop completely. 50B putting a bullet in his lady and then him covered all the bases. Richter would carry on killing Russians out of fear or get arrested, Jacket would either be out of the game completely, or he'd come back so broken that he'd have nothing left to do but follow the phonecalls.
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Apr 3, 2015 15:06
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Skunkrocker posted:...so if Jacket was a model employee for 50B with nothing but hatred and contempt for the rooskies and a devotion to 50B during his time in the war... They didn't- this was already discussed a number of pages ago. Jacket lost the fight with Biker, and the subsequent missions didn't happen or actually happened earlier. Everything up to Trauma is a coma dream and subject to the problems of an unreliable narrator. Richter shot the girl because she was a loose end.
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Apr 3, 2015 15:13
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Improbable Lobster posted:Jacket already had his own entire game and besides, he's in the same unit as Beard. He's the blonde solider that Beard carries out of the power plant. I know, that's like... the entire point of what I said. You could've just swapped their places. Pirate Jet posted:HM2 acts like Jacket was some kind of action hero instead of a depraved psycho. Not really though, the game seems to be basing Jacket's character off of any number of characters in 70's era exploitation movies who went to Vietnam and then came home as deranged killers. The war hosed him up, so he is in fact a depraved psycho. He's just a depraved psycho with a military backstory instead of a guy doing it solely for kicks. King Vidiot fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Apr 3, 2015 |
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Apr 3, 2015 15:40
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Discendo Vox posted:They didn't- this was already discussed a number of pages ago. Jacket lost the fight with Biker, and the subsequent missions didn't happen or actually happened earlier. Everything up to Trauma is a coma dream and subject to the problems of an unreliable narrator. Richter shot the girl because she was a loose end. I still completely disagree with this theory, as Biker has the injury from his fight with Jacket that he only gets if Jacket wins. Everything still happened after that fight, but not as trippy and insane of course. And they had him shot both because he failed to kill Biker and he saved the girl.
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Apr 3, 2015 16:14
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TheJoker138 posted:I still completely disagree with this theory, as Biker has the injury from his fight with Jacket that he only gets if Jacket wins. Everything still happened after that fight, but not as trippy and insane of course. And they had him shot both because he failed to kill Biker and he saved the girl. Unless I'm misremembering you smack him a few times over the course of the fight, it could just be from that instead.
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Apr 3, 2015 16:49
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RBA Starblade posted:It's not like you don't smack him a few times over the course of the fight, it could just be from that instead. Actually the only way Biker wins is if he kills Jacket before he can reach the golf club! 
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Apr 3, 2015 16:50
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Geight posted:Actually the only way Biker wins is if he kills Jacket before he can reach the golf club! Oh I am misremembering how it goes then. Or just thinking of it from Jacket's POV!
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Apr 3, 2015 16:52
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Biker's scenario ends after his fight with Jacket. I do believe that both endings are canon but one could argue that Biker saying "I got close but couldn't figure it all out" was basically "some loving loon in a rooster mask beat me with an inch of my life before I got the chance to figure it all out" and the rest of the game is just a "what if?" scenario.
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Apr 3, 2015 16:57
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What's hard to understand about "Jacket gets his rear end handed to him by biker, goes to the hospital, while on his hospital bed he imagines that he killed Biker when he really didn't"? He might have hit Biker once or twice, maybe, but he lost that fight.Skunkrocker posted:Biker's scenario ends after his fight with Jacket. I do believe that both endings are canon but one could argue that Biker saying "I got close but couldn't figure it all out" was basically "some loving loon in a rooster mask beat me with an inch of my life before I got the chance to figure it all out" and the rest of the game is just a "what if?" scenario. I think that was more like "I got close to figuring it all out but the only leads I had were two janitors who played mind games with me, and I killed them before I found out who they really worked for".
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Apr 3, 2015 17:09
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It's pretty stupid that people are arguing endlessly about some definitive, canon ending, when the game's a drug-fueled fever dream experienced by an unreliable narrator and the over-arching story's left deliberately ambiguous and open to interpretation save for the one thematic constant that it's a game about hurting people. Sure, the post-biker stuff could well be Jacket's coma dream. Sure, the biker's levels could be the way things really went. Or the game could diverge into two alternative timelines existing simultaneously in parallel universes. Does it really matter? Even in-story it arguably doesn't.
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Apr 3, 2015 17:20
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scamtank posted:I also just realized that the cheery pretense of the 50B phone handlers is based on Ghost Wolves radio code. Say what now? King Vidiot posted:What's hard to understand about "Jacket gets his rear end handed to him by biker, goes to the hospital, while on his hospital bed he imagines that he killed Biker when he really didn't"? He might have hit Biker once or twice, maybe, but he lost that fight. Yeah this is definitely canon; Biker beat Jacket and Jacket imagined the other scenario while he was unconscious in the hospital pre-Trauma.
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Apr 3, 2015 17:30
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Zaphod42 posted:Say what now? He's talking about when Beard gets on the radio and says things like "I'm done weeding out the garden, have our party guests arrived?"
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Apr 3, 2015 17:33
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They even use fake addresses when they're on the radio, it's really obvious to anyone paying attention. 
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Apr 3, 2015 17:38
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Zaphod42 posted:Say what now? He lost the fight but survived and continued killing, leading to Richter shooting him. All of it happened.
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Apr 3, 2015 17:40
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If Jacket imagined Richter shooting him then there would be no reason for Richter to be in jail and no reason for Jacket to raid the police station looking for answers and interrogate him.
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Apr 3, 2015 18:28
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So Richter was in jail twice? Once when Jacket went on his rampage, then when he was in the riot?
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Apr 3, 2015 18:38
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Mesadoram posted:So Richter was in jail twice? He got moved to a bigger correctional facility after Jacket's assault as opposed to just being in a police station holding cell for the duration of his prison sentence.
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Apr 3, 2015 18:39
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Sort of makes sense, he could have just left after Jacket killed every loving person in there though... Edit: Or Richter was just tired of running.
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Apr 3, 2015 18:40
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Skunkrocker posted:He's talking about when Beard gets on the radio and says things like "I'm done weeding out the garden, have our party guests arrived?" Ahh, yeah. I just didn't know what you were talking about, I was thinking it was some radio thing outside the game. But the stuff the soldiers said definitely had that feel to it. Just one more thing that lets you know the General / Soldiers set it all up.
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Apr 3, 2015 18:41
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Mesadoram posted:Sort of makes sense, he could have just left after Jacket killed every loving person in there though... Or Jacket never let him out so he was just stuck in a jail cell until back up arrived.
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Apr 3, 2015 18:41
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JAssassin posted:Or Jacket never let him out so he was just stuck in a jail cell until back up arrived. *Jacket opens the door, covered from head to toe in blood* Jacket: ... Richter: Sup *Jacket closes the door and runs off* Richter: Ok...
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Apr 3, 2015 18:45
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Mesadoram posted:*Jacket opens the door, covered from head to toe in blood* I mean, he could have beat the poo poo out of him and relocked the door on the way out. We're never going to know exactly what happened, just that they both walked away from it, and Richter ended up in a state/federal prison.
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Apr 3, 2015 18:47
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JAssassin posted:I mean, he could have beat the poo poo out of him and relocked the door on the way out. We're never going to know exactly what happened, just that they both walked away from it, and Richter ended up in a state/federal prison. In the grand scheme of things them both walking away is the more important part. How it happened is just flavor. I got this urge to play HLM1 now...
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Apr 3, 2015 18:49
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TomViolence posted:Sure, the post-biker stuff could well be Jacket's coma dream. Why would anyone think this, or did you mean pre Biker stuff? Biker's POV is what actually happened. Everything that occurs with Jacket starting with Trauma actually happened. And most of what happens pre-Trauma also happened, but with some details that could not have possibly happened, like Jacket seeing his dead army buddy serving him at every establishment he goes to, or other people he's killed showing up in random places all mangled-up and taunting him.
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Apr 3, 2015 19:05
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TheJoker138 posted:He lost the fight but survived and continued killing, leading to Richter shooting him. All of it happened. King Vidiot posted:Why would anyone think this, or did you mean pre Biker stuff? Biker's POV is what actually happened. Everything that occurs with Jacket starting with Trauma actually happened. And most of what happens pre-Trauma also happened, but with some details that could not have possibly happened, like Jacket seeing his dead army buddy serving him at every establishment he goes to, or other people he's killed showing up in random places all mangled-up and taunting him. Crucially, all the major hallucinations start immediately after the fight with Biker, when Beard explicitly tells him "All of this, this isn't really happening", points to the Biker's writhing corpse and says "see that? That's not really there".
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Apr 3, 2015 19:37
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Discendo Vox posted:Crucially, all the major hallucinations start immediately after the fight with Biker, when Beard explicitly tells him "All of this, this isn't really happening", points to the Biker's writhing corpse and says "see that? That's not really there". I guess the pizzaria, bar, and video rental store are just run by triplets.
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Apr 3, 2015 19:40
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