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Ah, he shows his hand now. This whole enterprise seems to exist to keep Annie out of the forest. I was right, he's clearly being placed as a manipulative influence over Annie--she won't respect anyone but his authority, after all. Seperating her from Kat helps with that as well. I wonder why they'd go through the effort though. Are they concerned that Annie wouldn't listen to them? Or is the status quo important to preserve, and Annie's success as Forest Medium threatens that? Mysterious. I see Antimony either standing up to her father here or we have a chapter of flashbacks before she decides to fight back. Her blindness regarding her father's misdeeds regarding her has been a major character issue and that seems poised to be resolved.
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Apr 4, 2015 00:49
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He is not cartoonishly evil, but he is an extremely powerful antagonist, because this story is about emotions and he is causing a lot of those right now for the main character.
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Apr 4, 2015 01:20
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I don't think it's too hard to reconcile "Anthony has an agenda here" with "Anthony is incapable of processing feelings". He has feelings, to be sure (hell, we've seen robots having feelings, it was the plot of the last chapter and everything), he's just cripplingly-unable to deal with them, in himself or anyone else. I think that's actually why he came across as (and frankly, was) manipulative up through the end of the class period: his goal wasn't to single out Annie for humiliation and make the rest of the class resent her for costing them time, it was to remove her from an emotional context (father-daughter) and place her in a strictly professional one (teacher-student). This isn't some brilliant stratagem, it was him experiencing feelings and dealing with them by making them go away; same with the instructions for the rest of the class to keep quiet while Annie was out. Then, the moment class is over, he starts with [canned_parental_speech.disappointment()], and gets visibly upset/angry when anything (the subject of his arm, Kat eavesdropping, Annie protesting that she works for the Forest) forces him off-script. Because that's what this is: a script, and I'm betting that other people were right when they guessed that it's Headmaster Llanwellyn's script. None of which makes him any less of a tosser for doing this to his daughter, to say nothing of having abandoned her for four years, but it's the difference between "Anthony, you monster!  " and "God dammit, Tony  "
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Apr 4, 2015 01:30
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Seriously, besides this newest thing about 'No I don't want you hanging out with those forest boys!' he's not said anything wrong, factually or for what's good for Annie. He's a bit of a tosser, not the new hitler. Yeah, this is my take on it. He's been an emotionally incompetent rear end in a top hat about it, but everything he's done is consistent with wanting the best for Antimony. Parents don't ground kids, forbid them from wearing make-up, or make them repeat schoolyears solely because they're pricks. Also, how long has Anthony been back at the court? How recently did he find out that Antimony had been cheating in every class? Because say, for example, that your wife dies, and your daughter is going to die of the same thing. You love your daughter, and you become consumed with the need to save her. Being characterised by trust in the scientific method and specifically not magic (which failed to save your wife and dismissed the issue as the natural way of things), you head out into the world and use your academic skillset to try and cure the condition. OK, maybe you don't handle the actual leaving-your-daughter-in-someone-else's-care thing all that adeptly, but you're innately terrible at doing emotion things and there's not a lot you can do about your own emotional make-up. And hey, maybe you just don't want to scare the poo poo out of your daughter by telling her she's a fire spirit who's going to die if she ever tries to have a baby. So you disappear and spend three years desperately trying to cure your daughter's inevitable magic cancer. You come back after this work, and you suddenly get the bombshell dropped on you that her academic work is total poo poo, she's a plagiarist, a liar, skips detentions, flagrantly ignores all the rules that have been put in place for her safety, and has thrown in with Coyote, who probably told Anthony to go piss up a rope when (I'm speculating here) Anthony came to him and asked for help saving Surma. Why wouldn't Anthony be absolutely furious? He's not being abusive, he's reacting to the revelation that his daughter is apparently a lousy student who is going to get herself killed one way or another. Why wouldn't he feel it appropriate to punish her? And ask any (regular, non-abusive) parent - one of the most effective ways to punish a kid for misbehaving is to embarrass the poo poo out them in front of their friends over it. He's not a monster. He's a strict dad with (as far as he can tell) a lovely kid, who needs drastic course correction.
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Apr 4, 2015 02:08
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Inglonias posted:That was basically the only emotion we've seen or heard from this rear end in a top hat so far. And that assumes it was emotion. That was conveniently ambiguous wording on Donald's part. What if a recording of her voice was a necessary component of Annie's bone surgery?
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Apr 4, 2015 03:04
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Have you heard the phrase "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"? Because no matter how much you want to help your daughter, vanishing for a really long time with nigh zero contact means that you are being a lovely dad. Showing up and deriding her in front of a class full of her friends makes you a lovely dad and a lovely teacher.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:05
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Carver is intervening after he found out that the boarding school he sent Annie to completely failed to educate hee outside of two subjects, despite receiving high scoring report cards for years. "If only I had been there for her, how do I make this right" seems like a reasonable motivation right now.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:13
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I'm glad that Annie is getting her just deserts for flagrantly abusing the trust of her best friend. Also lmao at all the goons thinking that anyone who doesn't wear their emotions on their sleeve must be autistic.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:34
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Usually when we characterize someone as a strict parent they're not literally absent from their child's life for 3 straight years, though. The other side of being a strict parent is that you're paying close attention to your child. Even if that attention may seem negative, you're involved. You expect them to behave a certain way because you've spent time teaching them to behave that way. If this moment came after 3 years of him trying to get her to behave better and her obstinately going her own way, it would be more understandable. Earned, even. And maybe (probably!) his behavior is explained by how hyper-rational and emotionally stunted he is. Maybe (again, probably!) he really is trying to do the optimal thing for his daughter and he's calculated that he stands a better chance of saving her life if he stops wasting time on playing the role of a father and invests all of his time and effort into finding a cure. Maybe (PRO-BA-BLY) he actually has her best interests in mind. That doesn't matter. Lots of villainous people in fiction have perfectly rational or noble motivations for their behavior. The fact is, this is a guy who abandoned his obligations as a father for 3 years and then as soon as he reentered his child's life immediately set about humiliating and scolding her.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:36
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Anthony's emotions aren't just not on his sleeve; they're in a box, in an egg, in a duck, on an island, somewhere in Russia.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:37
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The vibe I'm getting from Anthony is that he's going to put Annie through the GC equivalent of homeschooling. Does anyone else get that feeling?
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Apr 4, 2015 03:37
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So, worst dad, Anthony Carver or Martin Mertens?
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Apr 4, 2015 03:40
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Elysiume posted:Have you heard the phrase "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"? Because no matter how much you want to help your daughter, vanishing for a really long time with nigh zero contact means that you are being a lovely dad. Showing up and deriding her in front of a class full of her friends makes you a lovely dad and a lovely teacher. Hey, I'm not saying Anthony's the ideal dad, or even one of the better dads to have. But he's not a lovely dad. 'lovely' carries the connotations of laziness, indifference, or an active pattern of conscious physical and emotional abuse. Anthony hasn't demonstrated any of this. He clearly cares about Antimony. He's not necessarily good at being a dad, but he's actively working to improve Antimony's lot, even if that doesn't necessarily mesh with her or our opinions on what's good for her. Incidentally, I've never liked nor agreed with the phrase "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". It's only ever used to make someone feel bad for doing the best they can. In the absence of omniscience, good intentions are all we have. bigstupidjellyfish posted:Usually when we characterize someone as a strict parent they're not literally absent from their child's life for 3 straight years, though. The other side of being a strict parent is that you're paying close attention to your child. Even if that attention may seem negative, you're involved. You expect them to behave a certain way because you've spent time teaching them to behave that way. Oh, yeah, totally. You're right on all points. But I don't think that that makes him an abusive father or a lovely person, which is what people have been arguing. I wouldn't call him a villain so much as an antagonist. He's not being nasty - he's just wrong about some things. Faux Mulder fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Apr 4, 2015 |
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Apr 4, 2015 03:48
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Faux Mulder posted:Hey, I'm not saying Anthony's the ideal dad, or even one of the better dads to have. But he's not a lovely dad. 'lovely' carries the connotations of laziness, indifference, or an active pattern of conscious physical and emotional abuse. Anthony hasn't demonstrated any of this. He clearly cares about Antimony. He's not necessarily good at being a dad, but he's actively working to improve Antimony's lot, even if that doesn't necessarily mesh with her or our opinions on what's good for her. I dunno it's pretty lovely to basically try and ostracize your daughter or even a student from a class for an innocuous mistake (by making the entire class suffer for her Wearing makeup) when from the framing it wasn't mentioned beforehand at all.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:54
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Faux Mulder posted:'lovely' carries the connotations of laziness, indifference, or an active pattern of conscious physical and emotional abuse. Anthony hasn't demonstrated any of this. What about when he literally performed some kind of weird magic surgery on her without her consent or knowledge?
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Apr 4, 2015 04:00
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Stormgale posted:I dunno it's pretty lovely to basically try and ostracize your daughter or even a student from a class for an innocuous mistake (by making the entire class suffer for her Wearing makeup) when from the framing it wasn't mentioned beforehand at all. He embarrassed her, he didn't try to ostracise her. No sane adult would assume that the rest of the class would somehow turn against her over that issue. And kids wearing make-up is a fairly standard thing for both teachers and parents to object to. Girls who showed up to class wearing make-up at my secondary school would be sent home to wash it off. Heliotrope posted:What about when he literally performed some kind of weird magic surgery on her without her consent or knowledge? We have no idea what was actually happening there.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:01
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Faux Mulder posted:And kids wearing make-up is a fairly standard thing for both teachers and parents to object to. Girls who showed up to class wearing make-up at my secondary school would be sent home to wash it off.  This is literally something I never saw happen in any school I grew up in. Like that sounds insane to me, if a teacher at my school did that to a girl, I feel like most parents would be like "uh what the gently caress?" and the teacher would at least hear from them. The comic is complicated obviously because he's also happens to be her parent, but no I would say it's not fairly standard at all.I think it's weird that there are people saying he's not a lovely dad. He is a lovely dad, and this stuff he's doing to her right now is lovely, even if she had been cheating on her homework. This would be a completely different situation if he hadn't been absent from her life, but he has.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:11
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It is fairly standard, particularly in schools with uniforms. Same with boy hair length.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:15
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Faux Mulder posted:He embarrassed her, he didn't try to ostracise her. No sane adult would assume that the rest of the class would somehow turn against her over that issue. The making the class wait in silence for her to come back is to embarrass/distance a Troublemaker from the rest of the class which is how it was used when I was growing up entirely (notably the "If someone isn't caught for an infraction the whole group is punished)# And yes it may be fairly common in schools but not at Gunnerkrigg as she has been allowed to wear it in every class, his is the only one where this is a rule and basically embarrassing her for it without warning is still a bad thing.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:19
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Macaluso posted:
Maybe it's a UK/US thing? I don't think it would surprise many people in the UK. My school (a fairly bog-standard state-run one) had moderately strict uniform rules which specified against make-up, jewellery, certain hairstyles and colourings, that sort of stuff. Stormgale posted:And yes it may be fairly common in schools but not at Gunnerkrigg as she has been allowed to wear it in every class, his is the only one where this is a rule and basically embarrassing her for it without warning is still a bad thing. Yeah, it's a bit over the top, but I think the root of it is that he's seething mad (and not without reason) and this is part of the punishment. It's his way of communicating to Antimony how angry he is with her. It's probably not the healthiest way of doing it, but... Anthony Carver. Faux Mulder fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Apr 4, 2015 |
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Apr 4, 2015 04:19
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Blackheart posted:It is fairly standard, particularly in schools with uniforms. Same with boy hair length. I've always found the entire culture of uniforms and dress codes in certain schools pretty regressive. Like, 1834 regressive. I guess if you grew up with it it doesn't seem like such a big deal, but it's just nutso to me.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:22
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Faux Mulder posted:Maybe it's a UK/US thing? I don't think it would surprise many people in the UK. My school (a fairly bog-standard state-run one) had moderately strict uniform rules which specified against make-up, jewellery, certain hairstyles and colourings, that sort of stuff. It could be a US/UK thing, and I never went to a private school so there is that as well. Regardless, Stormgale is right in that it's never been an issue for the school before, this is an Anthony rule
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Apr 4, 2015 04:22
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In the US, it's particularly common in private schools, but also in public schools depending on the region. It all depends on how strict parents are willing to let the schools be about that kind of thing. Where I live a student actually getting sent home for something as minor a dress code infraction would be unheard of and would result in angry parents. Public schools have sometimes tried to introduce uniforms but they can't actually force students to wear them, especially if their parents don't want them to.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:24
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Faux Mulder posted:or an active pattern of conscious physical and emotional abuse. On this point I have to disagree. Being physically or emotionally abusive unintentionally, because you're ill-fit to be a parent for whatever reason, does not exempt you from being a "lovely parent." Plenty of lovely parents think they're doing what's best for their child.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:25
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Faux Mulder posted:Hey, I'm not saying Anthony's the ideal dad, or even one of the better dads to have. But he's not a lovely dad. 'lovely' carries the connotations of laziness, indifference, or an active pattern of conscious physical and emotional abuse. Anthony hasn't demonstrated any of this. He clearly cares about Antimony. He's not necessarily good at being a dad, but he's actively working to improve Antimony's lot, even if that doesn't necessarily mesh with her or our opinions on what's good for her. I don't really agree with how you're interpreting the saying. The point is that good intentions aren't enough. You need to actually do the good thing, and it needs to actually be good, for you to have done a good thing. If a parent beats their kid to try to bring them into line, their intentions are good but they're being a terrible parent.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:25
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Faux Mulder posted:Yeah, it's a bit over the top, but I think the root of it is that he's seething mad (and not without reason) and this is part of the punishment. It's his way of communicating to Antimony how angry he is with her. It's probably not the healthiest way of doing it, but... Anthony Carver. Yes but my point this is the definition of being a lovely parent? Especially if your job has you have power over your kid you shouldn't be using that to exercise your anger at them? Macaluso posted:Regardless, Stormgale is right in that it's never been an issue for the school before, this is an Anthony rule I'm going to savor this for the rest of my life.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:31
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bigstupidjellyfish posted:On this point I have to disagree. Being physically or emotionally abusive unintentionally, because you're ill-fit to be a parent for whatever reason, does not exempt you from being a "lovely parent." Plenty of lovely parents think they're doing what's best for their child. Stormgale posted:Yes but my point this is the definition of being a lovely parent? Especially if your job has you have power over your kid you shouldn't be using that to exercise your anger at them? Sure, I don't disagree, but I think we're getting caught up on the definition of 'lovely' here. To clarify, I don't think that Anthony is a good dad, but I find it difficult to think of him as a bad guy. From what we've been shown, and what we haven't been shown, my impression is that he is and has been doing what he reasonably believes is best for Antimony. And yeah, this isn't the healthiest way of dealing with his anger, but he's a human being. Adults get angry and yell at kids all the time. Doesn't mean they're terrible unredeemable assholes. Elysiume posted:It's kind of cheating to say there's no pattern of abuse because he took a multi-year sabbatical from parenthood and indefinitely dropped his kid off at boarding school. Short-term, withholding affection is a pretty commonly recognized form of emotional abuse, and publicly humiliating your kid would also arguably fall into that category. Neither sending a child to boarding school nor embarrassing them in front of their friends constitute emotional abuse. Lurdiak posted:I've always found the entire culture of uniforms and dress codes in certain schools pretty regressive. Like, 1834 regressive. I guess if you grew up with it it doesn't seem like such a big deal, but it's just nutso to me. The idea is that if you have a uniform, the poor kids who can't afford expensive clothes don't get bullied by those who can. Faux Mulder fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Apr 4, 2015 |
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Apr 4, 2015 04:37
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Faux Mulder posted:Neither sending a child to boarding school nor embarrassing them in front of their friends constitute emotional abuse.  at calling what Anthony did "sending a child to boarding school," jesus christ"hey buddy just dropping you off at school see you in six years" "nah don't bother giving me your phone number it's cool" Elysiume fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Apr 4, 2015 |
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Apr 4, 2015 04:42
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Elysiume posted:loving Sorry, maybe I'm misremembering some details here. What else did he do? And, uh, you sound like you're getting a little bit mad about this.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:43
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Faux Mulder posted:Sorry, maybe I'm misremembering some details here. What else did he do? He hasn't contacted her once until this moment. Since her mother died. He sent his daughter to boarding school immediately after the loss of her mother, and then never contacted her again for years.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:46
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Faux Mulder posted:Sorry, maybe I'm misremembering some details here. What else did he do? Abandoned her.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:47
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Faux Mulder posted:Sure, I don't disagree, but I think we're getting caught up on the definition of 'lovely' here. To clarify, I don't think that Anthony is a good dad, but I find it difficult to think of him as a bad guy. From what we've been shown, and what we haven't been shown, my impression is that he is and has been doing what he reasonably believes is best for Antimony. And yeah, this isn't the healthiest way of dealing with his anger, but he's a human being. Adults get angry and yell at kids all the time. Doesn't mean they're terrible unredeemable assholes. I just think he's a lovely parent. As much as you hate "The road to hell is paved in good intensions" inversely all the good intentions in the world don't make some actions tolerable.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:48
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Hey that's not true. He called her up once with a shopping list.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:48
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Faux Mulder posted:The idea is that if you have a uniform, the poor kids who can't afford expensive clothes don't get bullied by those who can. I very briefly went to a private school with uniforms. That poo poo does not work. Also wow there was a lot of drug dealing at that school.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:50
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Regy Rusty posted:He hasn't contacted her once until this moment. Since her mother died. Oh right, yeah, OK. I did sort of mention that earlier on, but yeah, that's lovely. But again, remember - we don't know what he was doing out there. There may be a good reason that he couldn't contact Antimony sooner. I mean, the other thing of it is, this is a fictional mystery story. Like, isn't it obvious to everybody else that there's something much deeper going on that we're not privy to yet, and that given that the only times we ever see Anthony he's being overtly presented as an rear end in a top hat, part of the deeper thing is probably that he's not really that much of an rear end in a top hat? Lurdiak posted:I very briefly went to a private school with uniforms. That poo poo does not work. Also wow there was a lot of drug dealing at that school. Yeah, I don't know about private schools, they have their own issues. It worked at my school with regards to clothes, to the extent I can tell, but kids will always find other poo poo to pick on each other about. Edit: Also, do we know what the actual timespan was between Surma's death, Antimony's move to the Court, and Anthony's leaving? Do we know the extent of the communication between Antimony and Anthony after Surma's death? I don't remember any mentions, and I don't quite believe it was none. Faux Mulder fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Apr 4, 2015 |
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Apr 4, 2015 04:52
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The reason he has done to Annie what he did is because he loves her. Part of the reason why this is a story is to explain how this is possible. Please remember the main words that this comic is about.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:55
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Faux Mulder posted:But again, remember - we don't know what he was doing out there. There may be a good reason that he couldn't contact Antimony sooner. 
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Apr 4, 2015 04:57
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Faux Mulder posted:But again, remember - we don't know what he was doing out there. There may be a good reason that he couldn't contact Antimony sooner. It's likely that he was doing things he thinks are important. That still doesn't justify his behavior. It's going to be an important part of this story for Annie to come to the realization that the pedestal she places her father on isn't one he deserves. I think there are going to be more redeeming aspects of his character that will be revealed as we go along, but the way that Annie constantly excuses his cold and distant behavior is indication that we're also going to see her relationship with him change. Both things will be interesting to see play out.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:57
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SynthOrange posted:Hey that's not true. Which was actually a coded message for satellite coordinates so he could do Space Magic Surgery on his daughter's soul. Tony has mental issues and he's absolutely, undeniably an unfit parent whatever his intentions might be.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:59
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Faux Mulder posted:Yeah, I don't know about private schools, they have their own issues. It worked at my school with regards to clothes, to the extent I can tell, but kids will always find other poo poo to pick on each other about. It was just really easy to tell who was rich and who wasn't, is all I'm saying.
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Apr 4, 2015 05:00
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