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Jacket had to have done stuff after Trauma because he's the one that kills the russian mafia leader guy, who remains dead in this game. I think Jacket and Biker beat the crap out of each other but both managed to walk away, leading to both storylines happening which is what we see in game. Biker has the face wound for it anyway.
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Apr 3, 2015 20:04
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The thing I think people are failing to grasp is that ALL of Jacket's story in HM1 is during his coma, until Trauma. But it all actually happened as well, but maybe not exactly, 100% how we saw it. The hallucinations, Beard working at the stores, how he remembers killing Biker, etc. None of that happened in that exact way. But he did kill all these people, he did rescue the girl, he did fight and injure Biker (although he did not kill him, and most likely was injured just as badly if not worse himself), and then Richter shot the girl and him leading to the coma. It all still happened though.
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Apr 3, 2015 20:16
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Also, I just realized Richard's "Someone you know is not who you think he is" line in HM1 refers to Beard not actually being Beard the whole time.
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Apr 3, 2015 20:28
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Yeah that's my take too. We're playing through Jacket's confused memories, so it's broadly true but there are chronological problems (eg all the premonitions) and nightmares mixed in.
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Apr 3, 2015 20:34
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Trick Question posted:I guess the pizzaria, bar, and video rental store are just run by triplets. Discendo Vox posted:Crucially, all the major hallucinations start immediately after the fight with Biker, when Beard explicitly tells him "All of this, this isn't really happening", points to the Biker's writhing corpse and says "see that? That's not really there".
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Apr 3, 2015 22:50
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King Vidiot posted:Not really though, the game seems to be basing Jacket's character off of any number of characters in 70's era exploitation movies who went to Vietnam and then came home as deranged killers. The war hosed him up, so he is in fact a depraved psycho. He's just a depraved psycho with a military backstory instead of a guy doing it solely for kicks. The issue isn't framing him as a soldier, it's framing him as someone out for revenge - because presumably he joined 50 Blessings as revenge for Beard's death. Framing him as a soldier does ruin something else though, as it makes him seem like a trained killer as opposed to the desperate killer resorting to desperate tactics in HM1, which kinda sours the whole hosed-up vibe of the first game. HM2 spends a chunk of its runtime explaining everything about HM1, and that makes it all boring. Which is especially weird considering how the ending of HM1 was basically "You want answers? You're not gonna get 'em. Deal with it."
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Apr 4, 2015 00:42
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I don't think Jacket was out for revenge, he pretty clearly had no idea why he was killing people (and also he may not have been fully aware of his friend's death). It definitely seemed to me like the janitors were manipulating him, abusing his prior training and thought patterns. The super-soldier part makes sense to me, it explains why he could just walk into a building and kill dozens of people like it was nothing
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Apr 4, 2015 01:19
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I don't think Jacket was out for revenge, he pretty clearly had no idea why he was killing people (and also he may not have been fully aware of his friend's death). I'm pretty sure he was aware of it, or else he wouldn't have hallucinated Beard in every place (plus his hallucination specifically mentioning San Francisco) and then thrown away the photo at the end of HM1. Even if he didn't know why he was killing people, he was still aware of Beard's death when he joined 50 Blessings. quote:The super-soldier part makes sense to me, it explains why he could just walk into a building and kill dozens of people like it was nothing Yeah, and that's the problem. HM1 was way cooler when it was about a random disturbed dude getting weird phone calls and then going out and barely managing to scrape by the odds of killing a building full of people (the odds being illustrated by how many times you die before you finally get the level down.)
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Apr 4, 2015 01:24
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Something I realized about Richter that's weird. Jake, Jacket, Biker, etc all signed up for 50 Blessings but he didn't.
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Apr 4, 2015 01:25
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We read this, we just don't agree. And I personally think all your theories are incredibly off base at best and idiotic/insane at worst.
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Apr 4, 2015 01:29
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The thing is, Jacket in HM2 seems more like a new recruit than anything else. Beard is pretty high ranked, I'm guessing, due to the fact he does most of the stuff and is incredibly competent. The whole exchange they had after the power plant mission ("keep this so you remember who saved your rear end") and the phone call where Beard is obviously being a kind of mentor to him ("time heals all wounds") and the way he's portrayed all through HM1 makes me think that Jacket didn't just consider him a friend but actually looked up to him. I don't really think HM2 invalidates anything about Jacket in the first game. He's a soldier, sure, but he's a deluded PTSD sufferer that lost a pretty big focus in his life in a rather terrible way.
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Apr 4, 2015 01:31
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I assumed he was hallucinating Beard because he couldn't come to terms with the death of the man he looked up to so much. I also think Jacket is different to other 50B operatives in general though - the colonel's organization just kept giving him instructions and Jacket kept following them without question because that's what he's always done. I think this fits in with the meta-theme fine too. When a videogame tells you to do something you just do it. Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Apr 4, 2015 |
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Apr 4, 2015 01:47
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I assumed he was hallucinating Beard because he couldn't come to terms with the death of the man he looked up to so much. There's no evidence that Beard was part of fifty blessings, and what we have (him running a store in San Francisco) actually makes a strong case that he wasn't involved with them at all.
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Apr 4, 2015 01:49
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Ddraig posted:I don't really think HM2 invalidates anything about Jacket in the first game. He's a soldier, sure, but he's a deluded PTSD sufferer that lost a pretty big focus in his life in a rather terrible way.
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Apr 4, 2015 01:52
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TheJoker138 posted:There's no evidence that Beard was part of fifty blessings, and what we have (him running a store in San Francisco) actually makes a strong case that he wasn't involved with them at all.
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Apr 4, 2015 01:52
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I assumed he was hallucinating Beard because he couldn't come to terms with the death of the man he looked up to so much. That's what I'm saying, though. You said that Jacket probably wasn't aware of Beard's death, and I said he probably WAS aware, because he hallucinates him in stores and his hallucination specifically mentions San Francisco. Butt Ghost posted:The PTSD bit is what really invalidated HM1 Jacket. For me anyway. I always perceived his characters as just some guy who's a bit unhinged and really good at killing,. Both of those are still true, but in a way that's too real. He's now unhinged because he suffers from a serious mental disorder and is really good at killing because he's a war veteran. It's not that HM2 Jacket is inherently a bad character. Without HM1, I'd think he's fine. But I preferred his character when he was more akin to a Slasher villain or an ambiguous Driver type of guy. Having his actions linked to something more sympathetic just sort of makes HM1 a bit uncomfortable. I agree with this post!
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Apr 4, 2015 01:53
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Well I mean he obviously heard about it at some point but his broken mind refused to accept it and created a weird set of fictions about him working everywhere instead (otherwise he'd just be like 'huh this can't actually be happening, this man is dead' in the interludes). The San Francisco thing seems like just another one of the subconscious references to their last conversation. e: pretty sure HM is meant to be uncomfortable
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Apr 4, 2015 01:59
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Irony Be My Shield posted:e: pretty sure HM is meant to be uncomfortable
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Apr 4, 2015 02:10
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I really liked the direction that HLM2 went. You want violence? Fine, here's 50 years of movie violence from Dirty Harry to Scarface to Rambo to Red Dawn. Right up to the modern disaffected murder squad, killing people cause they just want to kill people. And then the ultimate violence wipes all of them out.
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Apr 4, 2015 02:51
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I think retroactively making you uncomfortable for your previous neon murder spree is wonderful, I love Hotline Miami.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:29
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Guys you can do First Trial really fast! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU4M5lXmDTU
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Apr 4, 2015 05:05
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D+, because Evan has become the biggest dick ever. They weren't expecting that 
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Apr 4, 2015 05:39
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JAssassin posted:Guys you can do First Trial really fast! That glitch is how I got a top 10 time for First Trial hard mode and I have absolutely no idea how to actually activate it. e: That is the first floor. The second floor thing where you can just go talk to Petrov is a quirk of the engine as opposed to a glitch, apparently.
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Apr 4, 2015 05:47
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It looks kind of badass when you don't KO everyone in the second floor though, because all the surviving goons stride up behind you and train guns on you while you talk to Petrov, and then they track you as you leave.
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Apr 4, 2015 05:56
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Crossposting from the Sims 4 thread.
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Apr 4, 2015 06:34
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JAssassin posted:Guys you can do First Trial really fast! fast trial
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Apr 4, 2015 08:42
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Irony Be My Shield posted:e: pretty sure HM is meant to be uncomfortable HM is significantly more uncomfortable (and awesome) when Jacket has no justification for his actions instead of "he's a trained war veteran with PTSD."
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Apr 4, 2015 08:49
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Pirate Jet posted:HM is significantly more uncomfortable (and awesome) when Jacket has no justification for his actions instead of "he's a trained war veteran with PTSD." America is a tune. It must be sung together.
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Apr 4, 2015 09:52
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JAssassin posted:Guys you can do First Trial really fast! That reminds me, Iwas looking at my score for Down Under trying to get from a top 20 score to a top 10 one and then I noticed that it was like: 10th-3rd place: 30k 2nd place: 37k 1st place: Scientific notation.  Like is there some kind of cheat that you can use to make it so that every time you hit someone they go into the crawling mode where you can execute them for another combo tick? I have no idea how it's possible if he didn't cheat. I mean usually when I can figure out how the person went about getting a top score or time and use that for building top time/score strategies but that? Nope.
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Apr 4, 2015 10:04
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I finished casualties and stronghold on hard. they are almost literally the exact same level with no changes but the map being flipped. hosed up imo
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Apr 4, 2015 10:11
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Grapplejack posted:I finished casualties and stronghold on hard. they are almost literally the exact same level with no changes but the map being flipped. hosed up imo Oh, there wasn't new windows thrown in just because ? Good, these levels are already hard enough.
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Apr 4, 2015 10:19
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Hard Dead Ahead wasn't as difficult as I thought it'd be, but Tony's floor on Hard Deathwish ? Now that's some bullshit.
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Apr 4, 2015 15:55
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Anatharon posted:That reminds me, Iwas looking at my score for Down Under trying to get from a top 20 score to a top 10 one and then I noticed that it was like: It's just high combo modifier, probably carried the combo between floors and so on. This is by far the best way to get a high score, there's some videos earlier in the thread probably but once you get like 25x you're going to have a really high score, no cheating necessary.
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Apr 4, 2015 15:58
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skasion posted:It's just high combo modifier, probably carried the combo between floors and so on. This is by far the best way to get a high score, there's some videos earlier in the thread probably but once you get like 25x you're going to have a really high score, no cheating necessary. Down Under only has 17 enemies though  With a full combo, you'll end up with like 40k points at best, so yeah, they're cheating.
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Apr 4, 2015 18:43
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Ledgy posted:Hard Dead Ahead wasn't as difficult as I thought it'd be, but Tony's floor on Hard Deathwish ? Now that's some bullshit. Really? I was surprised how manageable Tony and the Twins floors were in Hard Deathwish but Dead Ahead tore me a new rear end in a top hat.
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Apr 5, 2015 16:11
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Ledgy posted:Down Under only has 17 enemies though Yeah, on Down Under hard I got an 18x combo without any executions and was still at like 12th place. Ledgy posted:Hard Dead Ahead wasn't as difficult as I thought it'd be, but Tony's floor on Hard Deathwish ? Now that's some bullshit. The floor on hard mode Death Wish that keeps getting me is Corey's.
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Apr 5, 2015 23:05
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Alright managed to GETHELP. Take Over was tough, too. Jake has an American Flag shower curtain, the little touches in this game 
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Apr 6, 2015 16:26
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Midnight Animal sort of deals with the whole issue of HM2 retroactively 'changing' HM1. Midnight Animal portrays Jacket as a monster with absolutely no morals at all. Someone who is completely deluded to the point where he imagines these phone calls telling him to kill, and any good actions he did do are whitewashed over (he keeps the girl as a prisoner, as opposed to what happened in Hotline Miami where she actually stayed of her own free will) I imagine Midnight Animal is what people would like Hotline Miami to have been as opposed to what it was (especially with the information given in Wrong Number)
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Apr 6, 2015 16:59
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I assumed he was hallucinating Beard because he couldn't come to terms with the death of the man he looked up to so much. Ddraig posted:Midnight Animal sort of deals with the whole issue of HM2 retroactively 'changing' HM1. I love how meta it all is. Jacket in the first game is you as the protagonist in a videogame; doing what you're told, just enjoying the violence not caring about why it exists or who it hurts. Then in the sequel we've got the fans who are people who wanted HM2 to stay like HM1 even though it was different; you still have the masks just like HM1 while most HM2 characters do not, and you're going on normal missions where you just kill people to enjoy it, Tony even seems upset at the idea of having a reason for the killing. He's no hero. He just wants action. Complete Nihilism; its just a game, nothing matters. Jake is like another take on the fans, he's somebody who enjoys killing for the sake of it, and who accepts his orders like Jacket in HM1. Unlike the fans though Jake represents somebody who is a fan of HM1 and instead of seeing the meta message or even the nihilist message of the fans, he just whole-heatedly accepts the war against the Russians as valid justification for violence. Jake is the anti-Tony. The ends justify the means, even if he's really in it for the means themselves (the killing). Jake has a childish black-and-white morality that justifies him killing the "bad guys", which results in his being killed by his own "side", showing that morality isn't so simple. Martin Brown, the Pig Butcher (Midnight Animal) then is how other people who didn't play HM1 saw HM1. Martin's story is a corrupted version of Jacket's, as understood by the media. The motivations and details are all confused and fudged into something that makes him even worse, similar to how the media responded to Hotline Miami (or Grand Theft Auto, or Doom) He's completely desensitized to violence and doesn't seem to know why he does what he does, and he doesn't care. Instead of caring for the hooker like Jacket he rapes her. Richard asks Jacket "Do you like hurting people?" but instead for Martin this becomes "You really like hurting other people, don't you?". Rather than the Nihilism of the fans, or the fake morality of Jake, Martin Brown represents an intentional sadism or evil. And one which is possibly created by the media itself. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Apr 6, 2015 |
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Apr 6, 2015 17:39
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im so fuckin good at this game holy poo poo look at this mlg throw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIWwaLA_WmU
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Apr 6, 2015 18:04
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