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Elayne's speech outside of Cairhien was really really bad. It was so bad that it made me snicker as I read it and had it gone on longer I would probably have broke out into laughter. I think it has less to do with the speech itself and more to do with the person making it. Almost done. I'll be back to this thread any day now.
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Feb 14, 2015 08:13
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Nynaeve also has an tendency to do awesome stuff, so while she starts out as a bit of a nag (and a somewhat sympathetic one), her moment with Birgitte when she calls herself a coward sums it up pretty well. Heck, one of the first things she does is track Lan, when he is impressed she tells him her father was a hunter and she knows these woods. I like to point out that in spite of Nynaeve and Mat's antagonistic relationship, when Aginor shows up at the Eye of the World and is getting all creepy with Nynaeve and everyone is frozen in terror it is Mat who attacks without hesitation.
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Feb 14, 2015 17:50
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Can someone remind me what happens in Knife of Dreams that makes all the women characters better? I'm drawing a blank but haven't read it in years and the Wikip plot summary wasn't enlightening.
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Feb 14, 2015 19:40
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Heh, there is that, but Nynaeve is an odd character because a lot of people find that they like her more and more the older they are. Even in Book 1, if you read it when you're young, Nynaeve is just annoying and angry; read it when you're an adult dealing with kids and she's a lot more sympathetic. I first read the books when I was...maybe 19. Reread it when Winter's Heart came out, and just gave up after WH. Picked it back up again and read from scratch shortly after Towers of Midnight came out and hearing praise for books 11 on. I was 30 and had recently gotten married. Reread the whole thing again after MoL was published, I was 32 and had two kids, and now I'm going on 34 and my oldest is 3.5. Personally, I still find Nynaeve in books 1-9 just as insufferable and terrible (for the most part - she has her moments) as I did when I was 19. Maybe I need to deal with some older kids, but so far, my perspective when it comes to her character (or, frankly, most of Jordan's women) hasn't really changed. That said, I agree that Nynaeve has more of a uh...redemption arc when it comes to her character. Most of the women just lose a lot of their irritability and gain a stronger causal chain between motivations and actions. Nynaeve actually gets, as mentioned, to do a lot of cool poo poo, but also mentally works her way through a much more complicated and interesting array of possibilities and outcomes, and ends up making what is a comparatively radical leap as a result.
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Feb 14, 2015 19:55
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Blind Melon posted:Do you feel that she changed when Sanderson took over? I don't actually remember that much, which is why I'm re-reading them. I do know that I disliked sanderson's Mat.
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Feb 14, 2015 19:59
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GreyPowerVan posted:I don't actually remember that much, which is why I'm re-reading them. I do know that I disliked sanderson's Mat. I think Sanderson just doesn't get sarcasm and irony, which is pretty much Mat's entire personality, along with a fair share of loyalty and the ability to believe that he can lie to himself and make himself believe it. Nynaeve becomes Jasnah's personality with Nynaeve's background. Not a bad thing. Actually a good thing. Sanderson's still got to work on expanding his portfolio of archetypes though. His blind spot in the realistic darker characters and motivations area, if it was filled in, would instantly double it.
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Feb 15, 2015 09:40
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GreyPowerVan posted:We already know she's awful because she hates ebooks though.
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Feb 16, 2015 16:33
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I might've missed it somewhere, but where did the Seanchans' collaring of channeling women come from? As far as I remember the Aes Sedai were seen as an Okay Thing by Hawkwing, who kind of started their society.
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Mar 7, 2015 17:40
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It came from Seanchan. Hawkwing was cool with Aes Sedai because Aes Sedai were mostly cool. The channelers calling themselves Aes Sedai in Seanchan were essentially tribes at war, and the whole situation was mad chaos until a Seanchan channeler gave Hawkwing's armies the collar. They collared her too, of course, believing the One Power to be inherently dangerous, and not without reason. Hawkwing went to war with Aes Sedai eventually, but that is almost certainly due to Ishamael's influence, not Hawkwing's true feelings. Blind Melon fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Mar 7, 2015 |
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Mar 7, 2015 17:45
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ManSedan posted:I might've missed it somewhere, but where did the Seanchans' collaring of channeling women come from? As far as I remember the Aes Sedai were seen as an Okay Thing by Hawkwing, who kind of started their society. As far as the Seanchan go, iirc channelers perpetrated a hell of a lot of wars, and non-channelers got sick of it.
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Mar 7, 2015 17:48
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Thanks for the replies. I just finished the Seanchan raid on the White Tower. drat. EDIT: in fact the whole series of chapters from Rand blowing up Graendal's fortress, finding out what's happened in the White Tower during Egwene's imprisonment, Verin's reveal (I knew something was up with her), to the raid, was probably my favorite section of this series yet. ManSedan fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Mar 7, 2015 |
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Mar 7, 2015 20:17
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^^Rand's vision in the glass columns of Rhuidean was always my favorite part of the series, it's probably the best use of a flashback that I have seen in any medium.ManSedan posted:I might've missed it somewhere, but where did the Seanchans' collaring of channeling women come from? As far as I remember the Aes Sedai were seen as an Okay Thing by Hawkwing, who kind of started their society. You should also remember that Ishamael was busy manipulating Hawking to act against the Aes Sedai, and probably convinced him to reject healing when he was really sick, which probably led to his dead. I think it's very likely that Ishamael also influenced Hawking's sons who went to Seanchan.
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Mar 7, 2015 20:54
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My favorite part/book is probably the one with Dumai's well. So much happens.
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Mar 7, 2015 20:58
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Torrannor posted:You should also remember that Ishamael was busy manipulating Hawking to act against the Aes Sedai, and probably convinced him to reject healing when he was really sick, which probably led to his dead. I think it's very likely that Ishamael also influenced Hawking's sons who went to Seanchan. Also if I remember correctly the last Amyrlin raised from the Red (before Elaida) was responsible for some sort of political shenanigans against Artur Hawkwing that resulted in her being deposed when it all came to light as Artur laid siege to the White Tower. The thousand years since then didn't fill the Reds with a ton of resentment or anything.
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Mar 7, 2015 21:32
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I started re-reading the first book and as I progressed, I pretty much had everything come back to me in bits and pieces. So by the time I hit halfway, I remembered up to book #7. I need something new to read. 
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Mar 8, 2015 08:09
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Odette posted:I started re-reading the first book and as I progressed, I pretty much had everything come back to me in bits and pieces. So by the time I hit halfway, I remembered up to book #7. I need something new to read. Stormlight if you haven't
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Mar 8, 2015 17:55
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ruby idiot railed posted:Also if I remember correctly the last Amyrlin raised from the Red (before Elaida) was responsible for some sort of political shenanigans against Artur Hawkwing that resulted in her being deposed when it all came to light as Artur laid siege to the White Tower. Not only that, the Amyrlin who betrayed Manatheren out of envy and was tried, stilled, and later quietly executed, was also a Red. The two most infamous Amyrlins were both Reds, and there wasn't a red since until Elaida.
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Mar 8, 2015 19:41
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Odette posted:I started re-reading the first book and as I progressed, I pretty much had everything come back to me in bits and pieces. So by the time I hit halfway, I remembered up to book #7. I need something new to read. Uh, books 8 to 13?
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Mar 8, 2015 20:23
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Odette posted:I started re-reading the first book and as I progressed, I pretty much had everything come back to me in bits and pieces. So by the time I hit halfway, I remembered up to book #7. I need something new to read. Less epic but IMO better written: The Lies of Locke Lamora.
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Mar 8, 2015 21:42
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I've read everything from Sanderson, Rothfuss & Lynch, as well as the majority of Brent Week's work. Not much point in starting books 8-13 because I'll just remember them soon-ish. They're all great authors.
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Mar 8, 2015 22:02
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Ok, I'm about a third through Memory of Light and when the hell did Nyneave's hair get cut short? How did I miss such a thing from Mrs. Hair-Tug?
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Mar 26, 2015 16:51
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I think it happens when she goes through the ter'angreal to become a full Aes Sedai.
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Mar 26, 2015 17:39
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Odette posted:I've read everything from Sanderson, Rothfuss & Lynch, as well as the majority of Brent Week's work. Not much point in starting books 8-13 because I'll just remember them soon-ish. They're all great authors. Read Glen Cook.
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Mar 26, 2015 23:50
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I wish there was a Black Company thread like this one, but I know there just isn't enough of a fleshed out world to support it. I'd totally do a lets read of it though. But yes, read Glen Cook.
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Mar 26, 2015 23:59
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Wow. Put these books down way back after Crossrods came out. Picked up Knife of Dreams a month ago and just finished MoL. Just awesome. Though now I feel like my childhood is officially over. I haven't read how others feel about Sanderson's writing - but I loved it. The entire time I was reading KoD I was reminded why I stopped reading them - 500 pages of Mat travelling in a circus with the same things happening in every chapter was starting to grate on me. The second TGS started it was like every chapter had poo poo happening and moving the plot forward. It was quite the sudden change. Though I think one of my favorite parts was blademaster after blademaster just easily cresting Pelov's Heights and demanding a 1 on 1 duel with Demandred. Like, put some guards around your poo poo, man. Also, Perrin and Slayer's Dragonball Z fight was awesome and hilarious at the same time. Couple questions/thoughts: Is this just the part of the cycle now that leads to the Age of Legends? Is there going to be a breaking is 10000 years or whatever now? I wish Moghedian had escaped. Having just one remnant of the Shadow escaping to do whatever would have been kinda cool. Androl was the coolest. His gateway work was pretty awesome. Hinderstrap callback, not the Sharans or anything else, was my absolute favorite part of the TLB. limeincoke fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Mar 29, 2015 |
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Mar 28, 2015 17:28
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The Hinderstrap thing was pretty awesome. I'm also glad thalmanas (spelling? I did the audio books) made it through the series alive. I can't help but feel like the ending was a bit half assed though, there are so many loose ends.
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Mar 31, 2015 05:34
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limeincoke posted:
Well, there's like 7 Ages, AoL being the preceding one to this one that just ended. No idea how long each of them lasts, we only know this one lasted around 3000 years. Next Age is going to be some kind of Industrial Revolution with Magic, though. Presumably some awful poo poo goes down between then and the First Age that makes us (living in the First Age) lose all of that, though.
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Mar 31, 2015 05:39
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Doffen posted:The Hinderstrap thing was pretty awesome. I'm also glad thalmanas (spelling? I did the audio books) made it through the series alive. Talmanes. Most of the big loose ends were meant to remain loose. Nothing is ever that neat or clean in the series.
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Mar 31, 2015 05:42
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ruby idiot railed posted:Well, there's like 7 Ages, AoL being the preceding one to this one that just ended. No idea how long each of them lasts, we only know this one lasted around 3000 years. Next Age is going to be some kind of Industrial Revolution with Magic, though. Presumably some awful poo poo goes down between then and the First Age that makes us (living in the First Age) lose all of that, though. Here's a question: are there really 7 Ages? It seems very likely that Third Age philosophers would have this wrong. Certainly their numbering is a little wonky as this really ought to be the last Age of the cycle: at least it's hard to imagine something more momentous happening at the end of any other Age. (Of course, the same philosophers would probably also be wrong about the cyclical nature of time, and we let that pass because it's more interesting for the characters to have this information. Probably the same story here, but I think it's fun to consider.) Honestly I always thought 3-5 or so made more sense unless they are of very unequal lengths. If we're in the First Age and the First Age is four Ages after WoT, it's rather hard to believe that we remember so many of the WoT myths even as well as we do. I mean look how. fragmentary their knowledge of the Second Age already is, and they have only the barest shreds of any knowledge predating that. I could believe we're in the Fifth Age, but then, they remember some of our business as well (though much less than we do of theirs, it seems to me.)
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Mar 31, 2015 07:07
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Doffen posted:The Hinderstrap thing Haha I forgot about this. It was weird, but pretty awesome.
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Mar 31, 2015 13:42
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At least it sort of made sense. I'm still annoyed how the Sharans just showed up out of nowhere with no explanation as to why they were following Dermandred. Some lead-up wpold have been nice.
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Apr 3, 2015 04:27
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Mad Hamish posted:At least it sort of made sense. I'm still annoyed how the Sharans just showed up out of nowhere with no explanation as to why they were following Dermandred. Some lead-up wpold have been nice. There was a few references throughout the books about how all of the sharan lands were in chaos. Graendal shows off the captured kings and queens, some of the Aiel chiefs talk about how the lands have fallen into deep chaos. Additionally, there were going to be a few chapters throughout the last few books involving part of Demandred's journey (mainly the last part where he does the equivalent of Rand pulling out Callandor). They ended up cutting them because they felt it was weird to just drop in all of these new characters and settings so late in the series, and since Robert Jordan was against showing any activity set in Shara. I personally agree with this, since all of the Black Tower stuff seemed way to sudden and out of place, and that had been getting actively set up for like 6 or 7 books. The chapters ended up getting included in a charity anthology called Unfettered, and are called "River of Souls" The Glumslinger fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Apr 3, 2015 |
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Apr 3, 2015 04:37
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The Glumslinger posted:There was a few references throughout the books about how all of the sharan lands were in chaos. Graendal shows off the captured kings and queens, some of the Aiel chiefs talk about how the lands have fallen into deep chaos. Some of the earlier books also showed Demandred having hosed off somewhere mysterious, that he'd done mysterious stuff that earned him IMMENSE favor with the Great Lord, and that he was going to bring forth the fruits of his labors in great bounties. There was definitely foreshadowing, it was just that there was a fantastic redirect to make us assume it was the Black Tower.
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Apr 3, 2015 18:32
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I really liked the fact that it came out of nowhere, it really made the world feel like a bigger place and that, despite the War for All Reality going on there were still places that were completely out of the main characters' perspective.
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Apr 3, 2015 18:46
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I won't lie I was kind of "Who the hell are these guys?" At first too but the more they were described the more I wanted to learn about them. The tattoo thing was actually pretty cool as well. Definitely held a really interesting mystique about their culture. If Jordan/Sanderson did one thing well it was make uniquely diverse and interesting cultures. Even if they were antagonists I still was quite frankly excited to learn about them. That's my not gripe with the books. I understand they were long and there was plenty of ground to cover. I just wish there was a little more info on the Forsaken. What they did in the past world and life is only glossed over. Most of them get steam rolled before we even know their names. "I am Aginor, Lewstherin and I my plan is to...-" *Balefire engulfs Aginor and he dies.* Also I never could remember who got swapped into whose body when they returned. I literally had a note on my iPhone to clarify it for myself.
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Apr 3, 2015 19:20
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Does the Dragon's Peace prohibit the mainland from going to gently caress Shara's poo poo up now? I mean all their channelers are dead now, and I'm guessing a large portion of their army. Of course, so is most of Randland's armies. I guess Shara is probs gonna get off scott free. Also, did Matt's plan of getting Demandred to show his hand work? He sends the Seanchan off, but it seemed like Demandred didn't take the bait. They just showed up again for mop up duty, with only that one company (led by Tylene?) seeing any real action. For all the talk of the power of the Imperial Army, we sure didn't get to see them do anything. It's also really funny to me how Matt not opening that drat letter almost cost them the war. One letter being opened sooner, and suddenly a large portion of the trolloc armies are either stuck in the Ways, or exiting in a non-strategic position. limeincoke fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Apr 3, 2015 |
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Apr 3, 2015 23:33
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Hunky Joe posted:I won't lie I was kind of "Who the hell are these guys?" At first too but the more they were described the more I wanted to learn about them. You know there's an entire book of background info/history right? Behind the wheel of time. It was released around books 6/7
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Apr 4, 2015 06:45
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The Lord Bude posted:You know there's an entire book of background info/history right? Behind the wheel of time. It was released around books 6/7 I dunno, the reasons that book gives for the Forsaken falling to the Shadow are all so bland and trite. Asmodean wasn't as popular a musician as he wanted to be and it made him eeeeeeevil!!! My co-worker and I have essentially decided that Lanfear fell because she couldn't handle being dumped by Lews Therin and went crazy. I mean, OK, you've been dumped by the most powerful person in the world. I can sort of see going a little overboard in the "I'll show you!" department.
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Apr 4, 2015 15:00
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Mad Hamish posted:I dunno, the reasons that book gives for the Forsaken falling to the Shadow are all so bland and trite. Asmodean wasn't as popular a musician as he wanted to be and it made him eeeeeeevil!!! I'm of the theory that the whole thing is Lews Therin's fault. He's just some (probably arrogant) goody two shoes guy who excels at everything and everyone is envious as hell of him. He dumps Lanfear and she goes crazy, drills the hole into the pattern, maybe hoping that discovering this awesome new source of Power will catapult her to the top of the world and back into Lews' eye. Sammael and Demandred want to be better soldiers/generals (or think they are and have been slighted at every turn) He probably walked out of one of Asmodean's concerts. Took his investments to someone other than Moghedien (or was Grenedal the stock broker?), and so on. I'm rereading the series right now and holy god I'm so tired of Elayne raising her chin at everyone. And it's only going to get worse
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Apr 4, 2015 18:39
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Arrath posted:I'm of the theory that the whole thing is Lews Therin's fault. He's just some (probably arrogant) goody two shoes guy who excels at everything and everyone is envious as hell of him. He dumps Lanfear and she goes crazy, drills the hole into the pattern, maybe hoping that discovering this awesome new source of Power will catapult her to the top of the world and back into Lews' eye. Sammael and Demandred want to be better soldiers/generals (or think they are and have been slighted at every turn) He probably walked out of one of Asmodean's concerts. Took his investments to someone other than Moghedien (or was Grenedal the stock broker?), and so on. I thought graendel (E: I think I was thinking of semirhage) was a doctor and was already convicted of being needlessly sadistic during her treatment of patients before the war of power / bore / etc. So she didn't have many other places to turn to. Ika fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Apr 4, 2015 |
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Apr 4, 2015 19:43
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