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What's a citadel and how do I shoot it (I understand the concept of all-or-nothing armor, I just get so few citadel hits it seems like I must be doing something wrong. Also! When targeting a stationary ship, should you generally click on its deck line, or waterline?)
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Apr 4, 2015 06:34
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Waterline. The citadel is the natural consequence of all or nothing armor. It's the most important guts of the ship. Engine, fuel, ammunition, etc. You can generally find it around the waterline amidships.
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Apr 4, 2015 06:51
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General Battuta posted:What's a citadel and how do I shoot it Aim at the midsection between the turrets and hope it disperses into the right spot. At any significant range the guns are too inaccurate for you to hit the citadel consistently, despite official forums posters who don't understand statistics. Cruiser and destroyer guns won't citadel hit battleships under normal circumstances, even if you hit the right spot. Aim at the waterline.
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Apr 4, 2015 07:01
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Mind you, the game only pops up "Citadel Hit" if you actually penetrate the citadel. If you're hitting directly below the turrets or directly below the smoke stacks, you're hitting the right spot even if it doesn't flash "citadel hit". Also, you can't over-penetrate it either. This mainly comes into play when battleships are shooting cruisers at close range, but cruisers can do the same to destroyers. In either case, you want to switch to HE.
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Apr 4, 2015 07:32
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The matchmaker must think I'm pretty awesome, because twice now it's sent my Saipan up against a Lexington alone (in terms of CVs that is). Getting neutered by an enemy carrier 2 tiers above you sucks, but hey at least I have 4 5-inch guns that I can maybe shoot at something!!!
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Apr 4, 2015 09:25
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So, does anyone think this game has the legs to keep running for a while when it's out of Beta? I find it simply doesn't have enough complexity to keep me amused. I have ground out a Cleveland and a Kongo and I have no interest in getting anything else as it's a boring grind all said and done, which compared to how much I played WoTs Beta is pretty damning. I really can't put my finger on why I think it's bad, it's a combination of a few things but I can't even be arsed to log in any more and when I do I just get my 1.5 games. I think it tries to be the game that all the serious ship spergs wanted, but it isn't, but if you point this out you just get dog piled. Serious discussion.
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Apr 4, 2015 10:44
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It's a little hard to say because there's a few interest-killing but relatively trivial issues on top right now - mainly the terrible maps and completely hosed balance between ship types and within ship lines. Most players end up stopping at T6 simply because all ships over that point are either downgrades or just dreadfully boring. But yeah, there does seem to be a need for some more involved game systems - more complex maps, more involved damage control, CVs certainly need a gameplay shakeup, deautomating AA a bit probably wouldn't hurt, etc. The problem is that the the utter cretins you find sailing your average battleship (seriously these guys make tanks players look smart and proactive) are already overwhelmed. Somehow. Prav fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Apr 4, 2015 |
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Apr 4, 2015 10:56
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Part of it is just the lack of content, really. Two tech trees worth of ships on three different maps simply isn't very interesting. If they add new nations and give them a unique feel, I can see that add a lot to the game (also the nationalism factor). But yeah, CVs are some of the least fun you can have while technically consuming an entertainment product. Even if you hit all your strikes (i.e. the other team has the idiots who sit their battleships perfectly still for a change) you spend a lot of time twiddling your thumbs. God help you if the enemy is moderately capable and dodges your strike. I've had games on the Independence where my total contribution to the battle was two scout planes shot down. First strike had just dropped torpedoes when the target got obliterated by a salvo, second strike was disrupted by AA fire and missed all torpedoes. Didn't have time or planes for a third.
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Apr 4, 2015 11:21
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Burt posted:So, does anyone think this game has the legs to keep running for a while when it's out of Beta? Like posters above have said, slotting in better maps and having ship trees that are actually filled will be enough to make it last. I can't speak to CVs as I don't have one yet, but with actually balanced ship lines alone it would be a marked improvement. At this point you don't even have a full nation's ship tree in terms of availability between what is in game right now between the USN/IJN. The Soviet Navy will be in soon enough (half of it blueprints-only ships I suppose), and I would expect the RN to come quickly after too. The French, Germans, and Italians are decent options for expansion as well once you flesh out their trees with unbuilt designs.
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Apr 4, 2015 12:11
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I'm the annoying guy shutting down the airspace and killing all your planes (it is a 1.5x game):
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Apr 4, 2015 14:36
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You guys do much in the way of teaming up? Platooning or whatever the nautical equivalent is? I'm wondering if getting 3 goons on voice and just focus firing everything would be very viable. I don't play though, so no idea if the reality of the game makes that a reasonable tactic or not.
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Apr 4, 2015 14:36
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I'd team up but goons always play with incomatible ships so I've ended up soloing instead :|
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Apr 4, 2015 14:37
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Ghost of Mussolini posted:Navyfield lasted for years and this game has a foundation that is 10x better I think. Navyfield was a fun game that actively punished you for trying to play it. But the gunnery in Navyfield was much more engaging than what Warships has. The Battlestations series had gunnery like Warships, but there were more arcadey features for you to preoccupy yourself with. You could aim secondaries and AA platforms, respawn ships, fly your own planes, manage damage control, and switch control between multiple ships. There needs to be more to do in this game. Also it seems like the damage model was changed to a more unpleasant state from the weekend to the closed beta. Previously, it was relatively hard to get consistent citadel hits on any ships besides Japanese cruisers. Now it seems that everything is about that fragile, while the Japanese cruisers end up softer than most destroyers. Unrelated, but one of the Nagato's hidden strengths is that it's so goddamned inaccurate that it's impossible to juke it in a destroyer. You'll swerve, and one shell will go where you were heading, and the other one flies out, hits you amidship and one-shots you.
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Apr 4, 2015 15:12
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How does battleship self-repair work? What determines how much damage is repairable?
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Apr 4, 2015 15:13
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I'm at about T-4 now and it's getting to a point where competency actually matters. What should my basic strategy be for cruisers or battleships? I find myself getting killed too early in the match which makes me think I'm either being too aggressive or failing to understand the flow.
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Apr 4, 2015 15:17
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raverrn posted:How does battleship self-repair work? What determines how much damage is repairable? You take damage and you get a notification saying "Light, medium, heavy" damage. I guess light and medium are fixable and heavy damage not really.
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Apr 4, 2015 15:21
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Burt posted:So, does anyone think this game has the legs to keep running for a while when it's out of Beta? I honestly don't really find the game to be as fun as I expected. The core of the game is really solid, the problem is with everything in the game that isn't shooting at other ships. Top complaints for me: The maps are terrible and there are too few of them. The only map that I like is the beginner map, the islands make for some fire lanes while providing cover. It also doesn't make sense to restrict maps by tier when you only have 5 maps. Also, the domination style maps end way too quickly, a team that caps 2 points quickly and manages to get a decent point lead early on will win. Another thing for me is that going up a tier doesn't feel like I've actually improved a ship all that much, outside of the US cruiser line and some of the battleships. The destroyer lines in particular just look dull from tier 5 on. In tier 6 and above games, it feels like the match is decided by who has the most battleships, and the cruisers and destroyers don't feel as useful. Don't get me wrong, they can be useful if things go right, but battleships are just better. Carriers are just really boring to play against and to play. I feel that ships could really do with being tougher though. I wouldn't mind if the damage control system had stored charges, so you could say use 1, then 30s later use another, but now there is a 2 minute recharge per use. Its not fun being taken out of the game for a couple of minutes because the rudder is broke.
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Apr 4, 2015 16:07
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When Boteclans becomes a thing, I propose that the first goonclan should take an abbreviation of a naval significance, a la: [USS] [USN] [NAVY] [RN] [KM] [DKM] [CORPS] [VET] and give it some stupid meaning, thus denying these assets to the enemy. Watch the butthurt roll in. E: even better if a goon actually is one of them, and therefore validating the clan Ee: VETS as in veterinary med I know the likelihood of getting one is slim 
Missing Name fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Apr 4, 2015 |
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Apr 4, 2015 16:52
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Due to their complete unoriginality, they will all be grabbed 5 seconds after the servers come up to do so.
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Apr 4, 2015 16:58
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ArchangeI posted:But yeah, CVs are some of the least fun you can have while technically consuming an entertainment product. Even if you hit all your strikes (i.e. the other team has the idiots who sit their battleships perfectly still for a change) you spend a lot of time twiddling your thumbs. God help you if the enemy is moderately capable and dodges your strike. I've had games on the Independence where my total contribution to the battle was two scout planes shot down. First strike had just dropped torpedoes when the target got obliterated by a salvo, second strike was disrupted by AA fire and missed all torpedoes. Didn't have time or planes for a third. I have to disagree with this, wrt to CVs. It's probably just a subjective personal preference thing, but I think carriers are far less boring than being stuck on the other side of the map from any targets in a slow gun-boat. At least your planes can get anywhere on the map in relatively short order and selectively kill whatever enemy BB is playing the most competently, thus making a tangible difference on the game as you save your pubbies from eventual death one ship at a time. Plus you get a sweet view of the map as your planes fly around, it's actually pretty cinematic to use the close in cam as your planes are going to or from target. It feels a lot like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVklQ8IyUbw Plus a lot of what you said can be simply be alleviated by smarter play. Don't drop torps on someone who's about to die anyways, and don't go in when cruisers blow their ability. It can be hard to hit even a BB if they're trying to dodge, but manually dropping two groups at a time will usually give you a good chance to hit at least 3-4 torps, with bonus points if they already blew their repair on putting our the fires your DBs caused.
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Apr 4, 2015 17:03
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Missing Name posted:When Boteclans becomes a thing, I propose that the first goonclan should take an abbreviation of a naval significance, a la: VET already exists. Assuming when it goes more unified, it shouldn't be available since it exists in tanks. Then again, I don't think clans carried over in planes, but just saying. http://na.wargaming.net/clans/1000003520/
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Apr 4, 2015 17:06
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Maybe get [YMCA] for all the 'In The Navy' and other Village People jokes.
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Apr 4, 2015 17:20
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CitizenKain posted:Another thing for me is that going up a tier doesn't feel like I've actually improved a ship all that much, outside of the US cruiser line and some of the battleships. The destroyer lines in particular just look dull from tier 5 on. In tier 6 and above games, it feels like the match is decided by who has the most battleships, and the cruisers and destroyers don't feel as useful. Don't get me wrong, they can be useful if things go right, but battleships are just better. Carriers are just really boring to play against and to play. Yeah, I agree with that. I think it has something to do with the main guns of many ships not feeling particularly powerful or unique. Shells fly a bit further, numbers get a bit bigger, but that's really kind of it. You pump one broadside after another into your opponent, but unless you get a lucky citadel hit, it rarely feels like you have much impact. It's also why I enjoy destroyers so much more than the other ship types, because landing a good salvo of torpedoes has much more impact and feels way more satisfying than pounding away with the guns. It's probably a bit of a tired comparison by now, but in War Thunder tanks, every single shot is a pretty big deal and has the capability of severely crippling or outright destroying your opponent, so upgrading to something with a bigger gun felt that much more significant even if it's just a few more milimetres of penetration or a slightly bigger explosive filler. Personally I think it'd help if they made the guns more accurate in terms of spread but more difficult to aim (i.e. less/no autoaim for range/elevation), and made criticals more common but with a shorter duration. That would make the player feel more in control of their actions and less at the mercy of the shell dispersion RNG. Landing a full broadside should be something nice and rewarding and not just a few centimetres of the enemy's HP bar.
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Apr 4, 2015 17:32
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Burt posted:So, does anyone think this game has the legs to keep running for a while when it's out of Beta? If it released now I'd get a Minekaze and play it occasionally. It's fun enough for a free game. I didn't play tanks beta so I don't know how it compared, but there's just nothing very interesting to do in boats. You drive around, left click enemy ships and wait for the RNG to give you citadel hits. The baseline is a lot better than navy field, but aiming in navy field was much more engaging than in boats. Citadel hits just do so much more damage that it obliterates any concept of interesting aiming. It really needs more things to do, part of which would be solved by unfucking the class balance. And the official forums are full of turbo grogs suggesting complexities that's make the game less interesting. James Garfield fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Apr 4, 2015 |
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Apr 4, 2015 17:51
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The only things I wanted after Langley was a faster ship with more planes. But the next CV's have some mighty retarded layouts available. I want 2 fighters & 1 torp, but it's either 2 fighters 1 bomb or 1 fighter 2 torps. Wtf?
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Apr 4, 2015 18:00
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James Garfield posted:I didn't play tanks beta so I don't know how it compared Current WOT but with half the bullshit.
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Apr 4, 2015 18:01
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Ihmemies posted:The only things I wanted after Langley was a faster ship with more planes. But the next CV's have some mighty retarded layouts available. I want 2 fighters & 1 torp, but it's either 2 fighters 1 bomb or 1 fighter 2 torps. Wtf? This opens up high in the tree. I think the Ranger has a dumb 3(!) fighter 1 bomber loadout if you just want to say 'gently caress you' to every other CV on the field. That said, I think more fighters is less useful than more TBs, since those let you contribute to the actual ship fight.
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Apr 4, 2015 18:03
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Depends on the definition of contribution. I prefer to contribute by scouting and killing enemy tb's so they don't ruin the days of my team's bb's. Even a 1 tb squad was enough to get some damage done in games.
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Apr 4, 2015 18:07
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Generation Internet posted:This opens up high in the tree. I think the Ranger has a dumb 3(!) fighter 1 bomber loadout if you just want to say 'gently caress you' to every other CV on the field. That said, I think more fighters is less useful than more TBs, since those let you contribute to the actual ship fight. The problem with the ranger though is that the saipan and the lexington has an option for 2x fighter + 2x torp bomber. This option isn't available to the ranger for some unknown reason.
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Apr 4, 2015 18:08
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I got my first cheating accusation by a pubbie today: Apparently I'm going to be reproted by that guy. Asehujiko fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Apr 4, 2015 |
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Apr 4, 2015 18:08
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I've only had a "Reported" text blurb myself after two volleying a guy but he couldn't be baited. 
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Apr 4, 2015 18:39
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CitizenKain posted:I honestly don't really find the game to be as fun as I expected. The core of the game is really solid, the problem is with everything in the game that isn't shooting at other ships. It just sort of feels like there is less to do. You line your ship up, start tracking enemy ships and just play the shot landing game, of which it feels like you have only modest control. Everything revolves around the massive citadel hits which is kind of boring. Compared to tanks, I just feel like there is so much less I can do to play well.
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Apr 4, 2015 18:49
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Citadel pens really need to be toned down.
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Apr 4, 2015 18:54
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Citadel hits should probably do like 25% more damage plus bonus module damage, instead of doing three or four times the damage. It's really stupid that a citadel hit does an order of magnitude more damage than another shell that hits half a meter higher.
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Apr 4, 2015 19:15
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James Garfield posted:Citadel hits should probably do like 25% more damage plus bonus module damage, instead of doing three or four times the damage. It's really stupid that a citadel hit does an order of magnitude more damage than another shell that hits half a meter higher. No.. No its not. Citadel hits means that you have hit very vulnerable components. The shell that hits 1 few meter higher does not. Case and point, HMS Hood. 1 solid hit to the magazine was enough to turn this BattleCruiser into a submarine.
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Apr 4, 2015 19:23
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Prav posted:Citadel pens really need to be toned down. This I can agree to. Perhaps drop torp up front damage and put more damage weight into the flooding would alleviate some of that issue too? Then again, perhaps torps are mainly a problem is the lower tiers. My biggest issue with the game is the same one with tanks though. It is the players. I've had games where torps did matter in that I was sunk by them. But it wasn't because the destroyer launching them was awesome and outwitted me. It is generally because there are 3 destroyers vomitting torps at me because our team is down to 4 ships remaining and the enemy is down 1 ship. Battleships hanging so far back. Long range accuracy needs some help or something because if destroyers and cruisers push in to be at their range, all the enemy battleships will focus you because their accuracy is improved over the drop shots on enemy battleships. Maps need more islands too. There are a few where I can dance between a couple and put some shells out while having an escape option to stop getting shelled. Meanwhile there are other maps where literally the islands mean nothing other than to divide north from south. I would REALLY like to know why wargaming is so paranoid at mirror maps (this goes for tanks as well as botes). MOBAs are mirrored other than perhaps where a nest is (and there is a similar one to the other side taking up the empty stuff, just not as powerful but with similar access). Hell, why is tf2 so popular? The maps are exactly the same for red and blue. There is a varied no mans land, but the base is laid out the same other than a palette swap. CTF1 for quake 1 was also mirrored. There is nothing wrong with mirrored maps. It gives a better frame for casuals and spergs alike. If your casuals can wander around their base and learn the land, they'll suddenly know how to get around the enemy side and understand things. The same casuals if they get sniped off from a certain approach, they'll remember that same defensive point in their base.
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Apr 4, 2015 19:27
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Dalael posted:No.. No its not. The HMS Hood did not have hit points.  Seriously though, this game is not realistic enough for that to matter. Citadel hits are functionally equivalent to damage RNG. In tanks the random damage spread is +- 25%, in boats it's two orders of magnitude. James Garfield fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Apr 4, 2015 |
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Apr 4, 2015 19:29
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James Garfield posted:The HMS Hood did not have hit points. Also magazine detonations are already their own category.
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Apr 4, 2015 19:33
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Hahahahahaha Please wargaming keep citadel hits the way they are because they allow my US destroyer's guns to wreck dumb pubbie cruisers' games. Also getting out of tier 5 and going into tier 6 Farragut is like night and day simply because I don't have to pull a stupid S-turn to launch all my torps anymore and solo wreck battleships in a single pair of spreads
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Apr 4, 2015 19:34
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Dalael posted:No.. No its not. It was already a submarine, the Bismarck just sent it on its last dive http://www.hmshood.com/ship/hoodspecs7.htm posted:Public Nickname: The "Mighty Hood" because of how "wet" the ship drove in any weather
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Apr 4, 2015 19:34
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