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A Winner is Jew posted:You would probably also have to institute things like housing and food for all. For most of the people in these employment situations, if we had UHC they would be able, on a fair minimum wage job, to afford housing and food on that job and have the rest taken care of by the UHC system. Instead if they want to work, they have to work either very short time, juggle a complicated balance of saving vs work to keep up with moving targets, or simply take very low wages in order to be able to get their food, housing and medical care covered.
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Apr 5, 2015 05:50
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People who were in that situation were helped the most by the Medicaid expansion and ACA. A lot of people on SSI were people trapped there because it was either take a meager amount of money or die because they couldn't get medical coverage and afford bills. ACA changed that somewhat with the no pre-existing condition rejection and the expansion of Medicaid. The ACA helped me tremendously personally like I specifically was in the class of people who had a pre existing condition, had to stay in the SSI system to be able to afford medication which meant it limited how much money I specifically could make. It was like living in a Joseph Heller novel for over a decade, I need the drugs to make me able to work, but if I work I lose the drugs. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Apr 5, 2015 |
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Apr 5, 2015 06:00
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Do you mean ACA/ Affordable Care Act or is there some social program helping you that shares an acronym with the lawyers guild I've never heard of?
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Apr 5, 2015 07:48
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Coming soon to a Republican state legislature near you: Texas Bill Would Name Judges Who Give Minors Permission to Have Abortions quote:In 38 states, it is illegal for a minor to terminate a pregnancy without one parent's knowledge. (Some of those 38 states go further, and require a parent's permission.) Girls who are afraid or unable to involve their parents can ask a judge for permission instead. This confidential process, which the Supreme Court helped establish in the late '70s and early '80s, is called judicial bypass.
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Apr 5, 2015 07:59
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So now judges will campaign on denying all abortions, right? Fuuuuuuuuuck.
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Apr 5, 2015 08:02
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Shifty Pony posted:"Financial Literacy" is a pile of bullshit served up by the financial services industry to try and blame the victim of predatory practices which they fight to keep legal. Kinda scratching my head at why someone would be arguing so stridently against education. Should we stop educating lardasses about HFCS, food deserts, and calorie-counting because of the corn lobby in the US?
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Apr 5, 2015 08:05
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shrike82 posted:Kinda scratching my head at why someone would be arguing so stridently against education.
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Apr 5, 2015 08:20
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Jagchosis posted:Do you mean ACA/ Affordable Care Act or is there some social program helping you that shares an acronym with the lawyers guild I've never heard of? ABA is a type of therapy for children with Autism, so I assume he's used it appropriately.
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Apr 5, 2015 08:29
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shrike82 posted:Kinda scratching my head at why someone would be arguing so stridently against education. It's more an understanding that no amount of financial literacy is going to stop you from getting completely hosed if you're poor in America but by lamenting the meager knowledge currently in place you can effectively blame the poor for incredibly predatory practices. Case in point, I just this past week was at a talk given by a regional Credit Union CEO and he quite clearly blamed the financial crisis and resulting recession on the shoddy financial literacy of the people taking out mortgages while ignoring any culpability banks had in the entire system. Later he discussed the liar loans and the like while showing apparently zero recognition that those might have contributed to the loving problem.
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Apr 5, 2015 08:34
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That's a pretty funny talking point considering it makes the banks who are supposed to have the financial literacy look even dumber for issuing the junk loans that blew up their companies. Although perhaps the lesson to be drawn here is the poor need to pay attention and be financially literate, but banks don't because they'll just get a few hundred billion from the government when they gently caress up.
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Apr 5, 2015 08:39
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Time value of money isn't a construct of the plutocracy. This argument seems akin to someone saying educating black slaves is pointless because they can't do any thing with it.
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Apr 5, 2015 08:49
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This kinda reminds me of how so few people understand how our tax system works, to the point that I've heard people say "I always have the maximum amount of income taxes taken out of my paycheck because I like getting a big refund!" Just put in the number the W-4/your accountant tells you, you goofs. You should get as much money as you can as you earn it. Even the Austrians got this right. I remember because one of my profs was a lolbertarian and I had to write a long-rear end essay on Bohm-Bawerk for his class...
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Apr 5, 2015 08:52
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I don't think anyone itt has said not to educate the poor. I've seen people saying that financial education is not the only barrier that poor people face, and not even the major one, so it should be combined with efforts to address everything else that keeps them poor. And that is all undoubtedly true.
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Apr 5, 2015 08:53
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ohgodwhat posted:Boy, kind of like money today would be worth more to poor people than money a week from now... Huh, wonder what they call that. Hamburgers? PostNouveau posted:Coming soon to a Republican state legislature near you: I'm sure Scott Roeder approves.
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Apr 5, 2015 11:18
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How could you know you were getting duped on your ARMs if the rating agencies were also in bed with the people giving you your mortgage? A lot of people reassessed their mortgages- not just walk off the street and grab a new 500K house. There was no financial literacy at the time anyone could've had that could've prevented that, especially since the banks were in dead heat battle over the volume of paper they were handing it.
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Apr 5, 2015 11:54
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Is anyone making the argument that financial literacy is a panacea for neoliberalism? It seems like the refrain to any effort at promoting education is met by cries that it won't resolve anything. Posters ITT 60 years ago "why bother desegregating schools".
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Apr 5, 2015 12:07
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You don't understand the argument that's being made. The argument is that education is not enough, not that it shouldn't be done.
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Apr 5, 2015 12:11
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If that's the case, I wonder who they're arguing with since there's no one making the counter-argument.
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Apr 5, 2015 12:13
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'Neoliberalism' has been made a meaningless buzzword by internet leftists. Greater educaional attainment will, hopefully, introduce individuals to the necessities of the real world and show that no government is far better than improper authoritarianism and latin american socialism.
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Apr 5, 2015 12:18
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Well outside of migf
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Apr 5, 2015 12:20
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shrike82 posted:Well outside of migf Have you ever worked on policy advocacy for a developing nation, or are you critiquing the best-practices evidence-based methodologies to reduce low-level corruption from the wonders of life in the first world? It's not 'neoliberalism' to be opposed to low-level corruption and to work to institutionalize high-level corruption into structures which sustain economic growth.
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Apr 5, 2015 12:24
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Quote of the morning, "I wish everyone, including the haters and losers, a very happy Easter!" ~ Donald Trump
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Apr 5, 2015 14:07
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Joementum posted:Quote of the morning, "I wish everyone, including the haters and losers, a very happy Easter!" ~ Donald Trump Sounds sincere to me! 
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Apr 5, 2015 14:16
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Joementum posted:Quote of the morning, "I wish everyone, including the haters and losers, a very happy Easter!" ~ Donald Trump I see the donald is trying to bridge that Christie vibe.
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Apr 5, 2015 14:22
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Sorry, it's the ACA. I was sleepy. The point is though is that financial literacy without advocacy is useless. You can try to educate people and that's a great thing, but some people specifically a person with a disability that's cognitive will never fundamentally understand and get royally screwed over in some cases because there are not enough advocates for them. There are federal funded advocacy groups but most don't know or understand that they have the right to get a advocate for themselves. And in some cases their "advocate" is in fact their Case Manager , which sometimes their not the greatest of people. So yes, in specific circumstances especially regarding people on SSI they get just completely taken advantage of in some instances, because the lack of financial education. There are a lot of problems as well especially in Louisiana and southern states, where now the course of action is to put these people with disabilities in nursing facilities. So you'll have a 25 year old person with a disability in a nursing home. There are several groups now that are advocating for this to be changed and instead these people moved to managed group homes. The entire problem with financial literacy is that it has to have a built in advocacy portion to help people who this education will not benefit. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Apr 5, 2015 |
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Apr 5, 2015 14:36
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Relentlessboredomm posted:It's more an understanding that no amount of financial literacy is going to stop you from getting completely hosed if you're poor in America but by lamenting the meager knowledge currently in place you can effectively blame the poor for incredibly predatory practices. Case in point, I just this past week was at a talk given by a regional Credit Union CEO and he quite clearly blamed the financial crisis and resulting recession on the shoddy financial literacy of the people taking out mortgages while ignoring any culpability banks had in the entire system. Later he discussed the liar loans and the like while showing apparently zero recognition that those might have contributed to the loving problem. Or apparently how securitization increased the danger a thousand fold turning a dip in home prices that might have led to a weak economy for a couple years into a potential apocalypse.
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Apr 5, 2015 14:44
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Relentlessboredomm posted:It's more an understanding that no amount of financial literacy is going to stop you from getting completely hosed if you're poor in America but by lamenting the meager knowledge currently in place you can effectively blame the poor for incredibly predatory practices. Case in point, I just this past week was at a talk given by a regional Credit Union CEO and he quite clearly blamed the financial crisis and resulting recession on the shoddy financial literacy of the people taking out mortgages while ignoring any culpability banks had in the entire system. Later he discussed the liar loans and the like while showing apparently zero recognition that those might have contributed to the loving problem. God, this is one of the most infuriating things in the loving world. I have a libertarian buddy I've argued this with 100 times. A couple of years ago he went to an Objectivist conference where he heard the president of a moderately big bank speak. The dude straight said, "We realized that many of these loans were unsustainable and would eventually collapse, but based on the volume of them we were doing we also understood the federal government would have to take action and so our risk was non-existent, at which point we stepped up our activities in this sector." This, to him, is evidence that he is right. Below is a condensed version of his side of every argument.  :"Hey, you know who is responsible for crashing the global economy? Poor people. You know, the people with no wealth or political power whatsoever? What's that? Mountains of evidence of straight-up criminality on the part of lenders? Me hearing directly from the horse's mouth that bailout money was the goal all along and even the top guy knew that was the plan? NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU IT WAS THE POOR PEOPLE!!!"
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Apr 5, 2015 14:49
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VitalSigns posted:You don't understand the argument that's being made. No, the point I was trying to make (poorly because I got caught on a late night rant) is that the "education" which is pushed is being used as an replacement for actual regulations which would address the root cause of the problem of the industry actively working to gently caress people as hard as they can get away with. Companies and trade groups say "We offer financial literacy education! We're giving the curricula to schools! Aren't we such great corporate citizens that we don't need through regulation and investigations into deceptive and predatory products?"
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Apr 5, 2015 15:01
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You know what collapsed our economy? Republicanism. Solution? Contribute to Democratic campaigns.
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Apr 5, 2015 15:12
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My Imaginary GF posted:You know what collapsed our economy? Republicanism. It's funny because it's literally true
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Apr 5, 2015 15:57
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Go broke on 2016 contributing to Dems or end up broke anyways from republican policies.
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Apr 5, 2015 16:05
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Democratic policy hasnt been particularly good for the poor, either.
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Apr 5, 2015 16:49
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Lotka Volterra posted:Democratic policy hasnt been particularly good for the poor, either.  the two parties are like, the same, man. why even vote? Democratic policy has been the only thing between the poor and the poorhouse. Relative to the only other options in America, Democratic party is a veritable hand-out to the poor.
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Apr 5, 2015 16:51
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Not what I said. Just pointing out a flaw in the idea that poor people wouldn't be poor if they just voted D.
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Apr 5, 2015 16:57
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Lotka Volterra posted:Not what I said. Just pointing out a flaw in the idea that poor people wouldn't be poor if they just voted D. To be fair he's not saying that either.
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Apr 5, 2015 17:00
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Well a lot of our economic woes have to do with inequality, lagging income, predatory lending and other concerns that directly impact the poor. It's safe to say a healthy economy would mean addressing these things and lifting poor people out of poverty. I was merely taking the idea a step beyond since "a working economy" isn't very useful without identification of what it means.
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Apr 5, 2015 17:07
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Lotka Volterra posted:Not what I said. Just pointing out a flaw in the idea that poor people wouldn't be poor if they just voted D. If you wanna put words in ny mouth, I'll help ya out: If the new deal coalition hadn't collapsed, and non-concentrated poor whites continued to vote Democrat, the rate of poverty would be vastly lower in the United States. Lotka Volterra posted:Well a lot of our economic woes have to do with Republicans, Republican turnout, Republican policies and other Republican concerns that directly impact the poor. It's safe to say a healthy economy would mean addressing these things and lifting poor people out of Republicanism. Fixed it for ya. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Apr 5, 2015 |
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Apr 5, 2015 17:09
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That doesn't seem like a very useful way to put it.
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Apr 5, 2015 17:23
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Relentlessboredomm posted:It's more an understanding that no amount of financial literacy is going to stop you from getting completely hosed if you're poor in America but by lamenting the meager knowledge currently in place you can effectively blame the poor for incredibly predatory practices. Case in point, I just this past week was at a talk given by a regional Credit Union CEO and he quite clearly blamed the financial crisis and resulting recession on the shoddy financial literacy of the people taking out mortgages while ignoring any culpability banks had in the entire system. Later he discussed the liar loans and the like while showing apparently zero recognition that those might have contributed to the loving problem. You're forgetting the talking point where those banks were only giving out bad loans because Jimmy Carter forced them to.
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Apr 5, 2015 17:32
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quote:In hope we entrust to the merciful Lord the framework recently agreed to in Lausanne, that it may be a definitive step toward a more secure and fraternal world http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-of-christians/ I really hope the Pope calls out members of Congress about trying to sabotage this when he comes in September. At least I hope he urges for peace and help for the poor. I just want to see regressive members of Congress made see a kind of Christian they are unfamiliar with. William Bear fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Apr 5, 2015 |
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Apr 5, 2015 17:37
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