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Buddy on the gixxer at :54 seconds trying SO HARD to get some knee. So hard that he's got his knee on deck when he should be on the gas getting on outta the corner.
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Mar 11, 2015 06:55
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Z3n posted:Buddy on the gixxer at :54 seconds trying SO HARD to get some knee. That begs the question: does getting a knee down come naturally when trying to get good corner speed or do you have to try at it?
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Mar 11, 2015 11:35
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Z3n posted:Buddy on the gixxer at :54 seconds trying SO HARD to get some knee. I get so sketched out behind a lot of people because I end up coming up on them quick towards the entrance of corners or mid corner. If I set something up to try and pass them on the exit a lot of the time I get pinched because they end up coming into power as I am about to pass and drift over on me.  It seems like the best option is to leave room on the straight, let them get into the corner, and carry speed past them through the corner. I try not to pass under braking because it's just a track day, maybe that should change.
BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Mar 11, 2015 |
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Mar 11, 2015 15:35
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Barnsy posted:That begs the question: does getting a knee down come naturally when trying to get good corner speed or do you have to try at it? Getting a knee down comes with a certain amount of lean angle and a certain body position - it doesn't have much to do with corner speed. Lean angle is generally the enemy of going fast, so that guy is missing the first rule of line choice: Pick the line that gets you through the corner with the least lean angle. Everyone goes through a phase after they drag knee for the first time of trying to get some in like, every corner, regardless of the cost to actual speed, just cause it's fun. I mock him a bit cause it reminds me of me and my friends years ago. BlackMK4 posted:I get so sketched out behind a lot of people because I end up coming up on them quick towards the entrance of corners or mid corner. If I set something up to try and pass them on the exit a lot of the time I get pinched because they end up coming into power as I am about to pass and drift over on me. I'm gonna link this video again, but really all the secrets are here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5SmFJrsC38 The important thing when you're passing is to make sure you're controlling the intersections of the line you are passing on and the line the rider you are passing is on. If you note my pass on the white 675 streetfighter earlier in that video, you can see that I'm running out wide as I pass him, to make sure that even if he runs wide, I've got space to get by. Same with the guys out of turn 8, I slow down, take a very late apex and get hard on the throttle. I can cheat it on the SD cause it has a monster engine, but on any other bike I'd be doing exactly the same thing, I'd just be carrying more cornerspeed and getting closer to the other riders on corner exit, because i'd be carrying more speed and that'd force me out wider. The safest pass is up the inside on corner exit because you took a later apex, stood the bike up, and drove out of the corner faster. It works on every bike from an SV to a SD, the smaller displacement, the more you need to maximize speed and drive out of the corner. Going up the inside on exit means they can't run wide into you, if they take the typical swooping all the way to the paint exit line, it just doesn't matter. I'd imagine a lack of familiarity with Chuckwalla contributed to the not feeling comfortable passing on corner exit or entry and instead you're just going around the outside when the speed differentials are highest, but late apex and a harder drive out is the pass to get comfortable with. Your 749 has enough power to make those passes on 600s no problem, and literbikes down shorter straights. In general, you should focus on corner exit as much as possible, learn where you can get on the throttle when, drive aggressively, and control that exit line so that you get out of the corner when and where you want to be. Once you get comfortable modifying your exit line by picking a different entry line (the later you apex, the tighter you can exit) you will open up a pile of options to pass pretty much anywhere. Then there's also the Reg Pridmore mid-track line that he taught at CLASS, which is also useful - enter the corner at midtrack, and see where it spits you out. Getting comfortable with operating on a variety of lines really opens up the passing options. Also, remember to always look past the other riders, never at them. If you look at them, you follow their markers, brake when they brake, turn when they turn, and you don't want to do that. Accept no other markers but your own. Z3n fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Mar 11, 2015 |
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Mar 11, 2015 16:58
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Useful advice  AMP is a more horsepower dependant track so I'll be able to play with the passing more, as I am finally starting to get comfortable with passing people I'm not moving a ton faster than.The Reg Pridmore thing... can you elaborate on that? I've seen some guys run suuuuper loving shallow to pass on the brakes / into the corner and always felt my rear end pucker trying to imagine how it works, but I've never tried it. Guess I should in a couple of weeks.
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Mar 11, 2015 22:46
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BlackMK4 posted:Useful advice Reg Pridmore teaches a midtrack (turn in from dead middle of the track) corner entry line at his school for a few reasons. One is it emulates street riding to some degree, and his track class is pretty street focused. The other is that a lot of folks never explore the rest of the track on corner entrance, and understanding how taking a midtrack entry really changes how you look at corner entry. I don't usually use that line to pass unless the speed differential is huge, but it's a nice thing to have available. It's also really good for block passes in racing. The really nice thing about it is that it gets you comfortable with how much changing your entry line affects your apex and exit and the cornerspeed that you can carry. And the truth is, it's a hell of a lot less than you'd think it'd be if you manage it appropriately.
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Mar 12, 2015 03:06
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What do slicks feel like when they start to go off? I've got 500mi of track only time on these and they have a lot of rubber left... but I slid the front for the first time since my switch to Pirellis in my last session yesterday. Leaned over, neutral to light positive throttle, long corner. I've been spinning the rear up frequently, but never felt even a hint of movement in the front. Tire pressures were 32/27-28 hot off the track.
BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Mar 23, 2015 |
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Mar 23, 2015 20:34
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BlackMK4 posted:What do slicks feel like when they start to go off? I've got 500mi of track only time on these and they have a lot of rubber left... but I slid the front for the first time since my switch to Pirellis in my last session yesterday. Leaned over, neutral to light positive throttle, long corner. I've been spinning the rear up frequently, but never felt even a hint of movement in the front. Tire pressures were 32/27-28 hot off the track. Superbike Pros? Replace them now! Like, seriously, replace, now. 500 miles of tracktime is edging into the limits of those tires, and while they taper off pretty gently, you're never going to get the same grip out of them again, which means you can maintain the same speed through a corner as you did on the last session but be past the available limit of traction. Heard of a lot of people trying to push them too far, and ending up wadding the bike. 500 miles should be about 5 trackdays, which is pretty decent for a set of tires.
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Mar 23, 2015 21:19
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Oh, joy.  Is there another tire to look in to or is this a good compromise?
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Mar 23, 2015 21:32
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BlackMK4 posted:Oh, joy. They're the best compromise across the board for non-race track only use, if you don't have access to cheap takeoffs. AFAIK, there's not much competition in the "trackday slicks" market.
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Mar 23, 2015 21:41
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Unfortunately, the Arizona track scene sucks compared to California. No cheap takeoff supply here. I guess $400 isn't bad for 3/4 a season of trackdays tire-wise. Maybe I'll try to eek out one more day but ride B group and focus on other details.
BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Mar 23, 2015 |
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Mar 23, 2015 21:43
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BlackMK4 posted:Unfortunately, the Arizona track scene sucks compared to California. No cheap takeoff supply here. I guess $400 isn't bad for 3/4 a season of trackdays tire-wise. Maybe I'll try to eek out one more day but ride B group and focus on other details. If I had a dime for every time someone said this and then yardsaled their bike... Just take the 80 buck cost a trackday in tire wear and budget accordingly
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Mar 23, 2015 22:03
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Z3n posted:If I had a dime for every time someone said this and then yardsaled their bike... Hah. I just went to check the tires, never really paid attention to the front much before because I figured I'd kill the rear first. Well, front tire on the right side edge has the rubber worn even (<.25mm) with the bottom of the 'tread' dot. I wonder if 32psi hot was too low for them. I've only run right hand tracks.  Front profile:  Rear profile: 
BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Mar 23, 2015 |
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Mar 23, 2015 23:28
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I'm pretty sure those could be flipped - could probably have gotten another day or 2 out of them if you'd flipped them if you only run right side tracks. As it is, I'd replace them and take the lesson for the future
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Mar 23, 2015 23:40
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Finished level 1 of California Superbike School yesterday at Willow Springs. Will try to head back and do level 2 later this year and improve my eyeball skills. 
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Mar 29, 2015 23:11
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Goddamn, I want an RSV4 so bad. Mmmm.
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Mar 30, 2015 23:17
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It was fun to finally pin the throttle and hear the v4 get angry. Nice to finally haul my own bikes to a track and not have to worry about getting stranded if I wipe out/someone crashing into me. My wife and I both had a moment though. On the same session we both pushed a bit hard on the same corner. I went in hotter than I should have, missed the apex, and got on the gas too early. Missed the exit point by about a yard and ran off track. She did pretty much the same thing on our zx6r. Oops.
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Mar 31, 2015 06:55
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I should make a thread for it, but you should come up and do the June 1 open trackday at THill.
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Mar 31, 2015 07:10
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I'll try; THill is beautiful and I like it way more than Willow Springs down here.
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Mar 31, 2015 07:24
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Get it on the calendar and come out! Open trackdays are amazing for getting in track time and riding with friends. It'll be a mixed group of all skill levels from people there for their first trackday to AFM racers and old washed up scrubs like myself just out to have a good time.
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Mar 31, 2015 07:52
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Angryboot posted:Finished level 1 of California Superbike School yesterday at Willow Springs. Will try to head back and do level 2 later this year and improve my eyeball skills. How'd you find the CSS? Wondering whether I should do that in Sydney or one of the more local training schools. And gently caress the RSV is an epic bike. Had one stop next to me at the lights the other day, I felt like an ant.
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Apr 4, 2015 11:34
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CSS is pretty different from other classes I had taken before. For example, after I took Lee Parks' class I was pretty happy about being able to flip into a turn and not do 5 different course corrections. After CSS I'm completely annoyed at the Lee Parks class for ignoring locating apexes and only concentrating on looking for the turn's exit. I was already forming that opinion on my own after noticing every turn I took was wider than it should've been after a track session last year but CSS really cemented that bit. It's the first time I came out of a class and really thinking about how much more I need to improve instead of just going 'yeah, I'm pretty drat good now'. Unless that's just scientology at work, in which case ffffffffffffff it's good at roping people in. Angryboot fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Apr 4, 2015 |
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Apr 4, 2015 17:49
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Barnsy posted:How'd you find the CSS? Wondering whether I should do that in Sydney or one of the more local training schools. I did a one day CSS school a couple years ago and really enjoyed. Learned a fair amount, fixed some little issues with my body positioning and cleaned up some of my lines. Only track riding school I've done on a bike other than CornerSpin but I would recommend it. At some point I'd like to go back and redo level 1 then do level 2.
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Apr 5, 2015 18:42
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Angryboot posted:CSS is pretty different from other classes I had taken before. For example, after I took Lee Parks' class I was pretty happy about being able to flip into a turn and not do 5 different course corrections. After CSS I'm completely annoyed at the Lee Parks class for ignoring locating apexes and only concentrating on looking for the turn's exit.
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Apr 7, 2015 04:01
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How imperative are warmers on tires like the Michelin Power Cup or GPA Ntec? Also, I see DunlopRacing selling GPA 211 sets for $279... which is significantly cheaper than the $400 I was planning on dropping on SBK Pros or Power Cups. Thoughts on them?
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Apr 7, 2015 04:53
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They're not if you respect tire temps and hot laps. Warmers are probably more dangerous overall because you go out on track at 100% without being warmed up (mental, brakes, suspension, chain etc). Also in cooler temps your tires can come off the warmers ready, cool on your lovely first lap, then suddenly disappear completely. Opposed to no warmers where you build up a progression every session. I never ended up using warmers on half a dozen sets of GP-As and even full slicks.
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Apr 7, 2015 04:59
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Sounds good to me, I'm used to the fickle beast that is the cold SBK Pro . What was tire life like?
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Apr 7, 2015 05:16
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All our tracks here in the PNW are strongly left handed; so I'd get 4-5 fast days out of a set of tires, then the left side would be completely roached and flat spotted, and the rest of the tire would be perfectly fine.
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Apr 7, 2015 17:47
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BlackMK4 posted:How imperative are warmers on tires like the Michelin Power Cup or GPA Ntec? 2nding everything Spiff said on the warmers debate, I never used them, even when racing. GPAs are 2-3 generations old now, which is why you're seeing them at blowout prices. There's this cycle of "lifespan/grip" that goes on as tires develop. You get something really new with crazy grip and no life, and then over time they tune the compound, people figure out suspension settings, etc, and you get better life, and then eventually they last a long time and give great grip (figure 4-5 trackdays) and then they release another major revision, and you get even more grip and no life again. The 211s are at the peak of the last grip and life cycle - they last, they grip well, but not as well as the newer stuff. I'd spend the extra 120 bucks and skip eating out for a few days
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Apr 7, 2015 19:04
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Does anyone make a factory racebike that you can buy new, or are all track toys typically salvage conversions? I've got a 2001 F4i as a track bike and it's pretty awesome for being cheap as hell. But I find myself really wanting to have things like an actual race wiring harness so I don't have to gently caress with the mess of wires tucked in the cowl. (As far as I can tell, nobody has NOS HRC harnesses, and the only ebay option is $600 out of japan).
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Apr 7, 2015 19:45
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KTM Made a track ready version of the RC8 H2R, if you're a baller Any off the shelf modern sport bike / superbike + $600 to hotbodies or w/e
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Apr 7, 2015 19:50
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Spiffness posted:All our tracks here in the PNW are strongly left handed; so I'd get 4-5 fast days out of a set of tires, then the left side would be completely roached and flat spotted, and the rest of the tire would be perfectly fine. Do slicks have a 'direction'? As in, you can't just flip them and ride on the untouched side?
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Apr 7, 2015 20:10
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That's basically what this thing is. A clearly stolen and wrecked F4i with steel brake lines up front and a rattlecanned hotbodies kit
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Apr 7, 2015 20:11
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epalm posted:Do slicks have a 'direction'? As in, you can't just flip them and ride on the untouched side? You totally can; though certain tires take to it better than others, but flipped DOT's and Slicks is very common in the paddock. I never did; it's enough of a PITA to change a tire that I'd just rather go to a fresh set than flip it and have to do it all over again the next day. Unless you are constantly flipping the tire, one side is going to get completely roasted, then you'll have no tire remaining for Left-handers, so you flip it, and now have lots of tire remaining for Left-handers but your Right-handers are sketchy. I've definitely mounted a takeoff with a day or so of life left on it flipped to get me through a weekend, but more as a last resort thing. Once you are going to the track regularly, new tires just sort of absorb into the overall 'home down payment a year' cost of it all.
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Apr 7, 2015 22:00
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So do people end up modifying the wiring harnesses for their track bikes? I'd like to get rid of the entire jumble that makes up the lighting relays and plugs up front. It's all part of the same sub-assembly, but the bank angle sensor is included in that. I've got a meter and am reasonably handy with a soldering iron, but this huge mass of information here makes that sound like a bad idea: https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html
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Apr 8, 2015 17:13
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Don't gently caress with the harness.Z3n posted:2nding everything Spiff said on the warmers debate, I never used them, even when racing. Fair enough Now if I could get my loving BMW reliable... should never have moved from an E30 to an E90.
BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Apr 8, 2015 |
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Apr 8, 2015 17:14
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kuffs posted:So do people end up modifying the wiring harnesses for their track bikes? I'd like to get rid of the entire jumble that makes up the lighting relays and plugs up front. It's all part of the same sub-assembly, but the bank angle sensor is included in that. Just neatly zip tie it somewhere out of the way.
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Apr 9, 2015 03:47
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It *was* tucked under the dashboard until I was convinced I could do a better job. But I'll heed your advice and just bundle everything back up. I can suppress my urge to clean things up in favor of reliability.
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Apr 9, 2015 22:17
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Okay, so I need to order tires now. Pirelli SBK Pro - $370 Power Cup - $404 Dunlop KR448 - $329 Dunlop GPA Pro - $389 Dunlop D211 GPA - $279 Which should I order? Also, Z3n, shoot me details on how to sign up for June 1st.
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Apr 11, 2015 23:19
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Super bike pros are the best deal to lifespan to grip. If you liked them, run them again. Will PM on the track day in a bit.
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Apr 11, 2015 23:52
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