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AYC posted:Though I am a bit biased as he was the first author I really got into I see you are a white male between 20 and 30
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Apr 5, 2015 20:07
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I see you are a white male between 20 and 30
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Apr 5, 2015 20:10
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Personally I'm looking forward to the Norton Critical Editions of Fifty Shades of Grey and The Da Vinci Code.
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Apr 5, 2015 20:10
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AYC posted:And I see you are an unhuman Pokemon half-breed Stephen King is everyone's first serious author. He exists at the cultural point in most people's development in which they want to explore adult fiction and move on from more traditional children's or young adult novels. His style is genuinely better than most people in his genre, and he had a legitimately diverse creative output. He is a pretty good way to bridge people into complicated reading and if he is the first author you ever set out to read without a teachers prompting he is a unique and eye opening experience. I cannot blame people for being nostalgic and defensive of him because of this. But seriously, one you cross that bridge you are going to find fiction so good it will haunt and redefine you and leave King in the dust.
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Apr 5, 2015 20:18
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AYC posted:All literature is subjective and there are no good or bad writers Since G-d is by definition Goodness and the Qur'an is the unaltered words of the Divine transmitted through the archangel Gabriel I think you're in the wrong here buddy. Tree Goat fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Sep 14, 2015 |
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Apr 5, 2015 20:24
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Stephen King is everyone's first serious author. That seems like a fairly accurate assessment to me. To be clear: other than It and The Stand, I wouldn't consider any of King's works to be great works of literature. For the most part, they're decently written horror and supernatural stories. That doesn't mean they're bad per se, just not as good as some of the truly great works out there. As you said, they're a useful jumping off point into adult fiction, and for that I think they serve their purpose pretty well. I freely admit I read and enjoy works I don't consider to be great literature - Harry Turtledove comes to mind. But ultimately, just reading as a hobby is such an enriching experience that I try not to spend hours wrestling with whether what I read is "real" literature or not. That being said, I have tried to read some of the literary classics; off the top of my head, I greatly enjoyed The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde and a prose translation of the Odyssey (the specific one escapes me). I just interspace serious reading with more light reading, because I don't think it has to be a black-and-white dichotomy.
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Apr 5, 2015 20:27
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AYC posted:That being said, I have tried to read some of the literary classics; off the top of my head, I greatly enjoyed The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde and a prose translation of the Odyssey (the specific one escapes me). I just interspace serious reading with more light reading, because I don't think it has to be a black-and-white dichotomy. Old is not the sole qualifier for literary. There are books within the last 10-15 years that are genuinely amazing and literary. Most people think good literature is found by waiting for a professor to recommend it to you. It's not. Edit: for example I would put Gilead by Marilynne Robinson up against most of the world canon in a heartbeat Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Apr 5, 2015 |
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Apr 5, 2015 20:30
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Old is not the sole qualifier for literary. There are books within the last 10-15 years that are genuinely amazing and literary. Most people think good literature is found by waiting for a professor to recommend it to you. It's not. Finding the time to read can be tough, so taking classes can be a useful motivator for getting my book fix. :P The reading list for my religious studies class, if anyone is curious: American Gods by Neil Gaiman A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller Jr. Speaker for the Dead by Orson Scott Card The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood Also, piggybacking on my above post: are prose translations of the Odyssey heretical? To be perfectly honest I much preferred them to poetry translations, though that might be because I've never been super into poetry.
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Apr 5, 2015 20:34
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You're going to have fun with Card there.
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Apr 5, 2015 20:38
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How come you're not reading any actual religious text for your religious studies class?
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Apr 5, 2015 20:45
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Zaito posted:How come you're not reading any actual religious text for your religious studies class? It's a class about religion & science fiction. I'd have to take Introduction to Islam or something for that.
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Apr 5, 2015 20:46
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Apr 5, 2015 20:48
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Oh man a class about finding religious symbolism in Sci fi that pretty much sounds like my version of hell
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Apr 5, 2015 20:53
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I mean how many different ways can you write "the protagonist is jesus" in a paper
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Apr 5, 2015 21:07
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Shall we not rather start another 20 pages of pynchon/mccarthy/delillo chat instead?
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Apr 5, 2015 22:08
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McCarthy's usage of the N word in Blood Meridian was very tarantinoesque (or maybe it's the other way around, considering publication date). Using it in the text proper I can understand, keeping a narrative/dialogue style reminiscent of the 1800s and whatnot. but when it popped up in the freaking chapter titles, I could just imagine him having some sort of poo poo-eating grin on his face, like "yeah, I used this word. whacha gon' do about it, chump"
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Apr 5, 2015 22:28
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please stop talking about neil gaiman, stephen king, or orson scott card, as they are not real literature, and therefore not suitable for this thread.
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Apr 5, 2015 22:42
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Zaito posted:GK Chesterton. Yeah. And for all I know Stephen King is as important as Conan Doyle and Poe were (I can't stand either horror or fantasy), but critical acclaim usually doesn't take 50 years to build up.
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Apr 5, 2015 22:50
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david crosby posted:please stop talking about neil gaiman, stephen king, or orson scott card, as they are not real literature, and therefore not suitable for this thread. Sorry, I forgot to consult the Infallible Objective Standard of Quality for All Artistic Works. Must've left it at home.
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Apr 5, 2015 22:56
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AYC posted:Sorry, I forgot to consult the Infallible Objective Standard of Quality for All Artistic Works. Must've left it at home. i think llama guy borrowed it a while back
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Apr 5, 2015 22:57
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AYC posted:Sorry, I forgot to consult the Infallible Objective Standard of Quality for All Artistic Works. Must've left it at home. buddy one day you are going to learn what subjectivity means in the scope of literary analysis and its not gonna be what you think
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Apr 5, 2015 23:08
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Burning Rain posted:Shall we not rather start another 20 pages of pynchon/mccarthy/delillo chat instead? IMO lets get into some current European fiction. What do you guys think of Vila-Matas? I loved Bartleby & Co, Montado's Malady and Dublinesque (and Never Any End to Paris to a lesser extent).
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Apr 5, 2015 23:27
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Boatswain posted:IMO lets get into some current European fiction. Pet Petterson's new book is coming out this week and I was a big fan of Out Stealing Horses. Between him, Knausgaard, and Linn Ulmann Norway is tearing up the European lit scene.
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Apr 5, 2015 23:37
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Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica will enter the canon.
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Apr 6, 2015 01:26
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Ras Het posted:How many detective story authors from a hundred years ago do we still talk about, and do we do so in terms of literature? Not detective but books like King Solomon's Mines, the Prisoner of Zenda, and Scaramouche have endured while many highbrow books that were acclaimed by critics at the time have fallen into oblivion.
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Apr 6, 2015 03:05
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Borneo Jimmy posted:Not detective but books like King Solomon's Mines, the Prisoner of Zenda, and Scaramouche have endured while many highbrow books that were acclaimed by critics at the time have fallen into oblivion. Idk, I think here they're still not really considered 'high literature' but then we're getting into nasty definitional arguments.
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Apr 6, 2015 03:14
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Shibawanko posted:Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica will enter the canon. Please only talk about good things here
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Apr 6, 2015 03:17
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ulvir posted:McCarthy's usage of the N word in Blood Meridian was very tarantinoesque (or maybe it's the other way around, considering publication date). Using it in the text proper I can understand, keeping a narrative/dialogue style reminiscent of the 1800s and whatnot. but when it popped up in the freaking chapter titles, I could just imagine him having some sort of poo poo-eating grin on his face, like "yeah, I used this word. whacha gon' do about it, chump" So that bothered you but not his depiction of Native Americans as howling bloodthirsty savages?
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Apr 6, 2015 03:19
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This derail never would have happened if everyone read David Vann like I told them to
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Apr 6, 2015 03:20
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Boatswain posted:IMO lets get into some current European fiction. What do you guys think of Vila-Matas? I loved Bartleby & Co, Montado's Malady and Dublinesque (and Never Any End to Paris to a lesser extent). I have Dublinesque on my shelves, but I'm always put off thinking that it requires a doctorate in Ulysses trivia to be remotely enjoyable. c/d? Also, any Juan Goytisolo readers here? I mentioned in the reading challenge thread that I've been given five of his books none of which are among his best-known ones (i.e., Marks of Identity trilogy, Coto Verdado and The Marx Family Saga), so I'm mostly leaving them stay for now until I pick one blindly.
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Apr 6, 2015 07:35
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Burning Rain posted:I have Dublinesque on my shelves, but I'm always put off thinking that it requires a doctorate in Ulysses trivia to be remotely enjoyable. c/d? You don't! It helps but the book is surprisingly friendly.
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Apr 6, 2015 08:25
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Borneo Jimmy posted:So that bothered you but not his depiction of Native Americans as howling bloodthirsty savages? I didn't say it bothered me, I just said that the non-diegetic usage was a bit unneccessary. I can't recall if the same happened with native americans re: their depictions in the book, but if so than that's equally pointless (and maybe even worse)
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Apr 6, 2015 09:29
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Mel Mudkiper posted:This derail never would have happened if everyone read David Vann like I told them to please go away
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Apr 6, 2015 10:06
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David Vann't, to my mind.
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Apr 6, 2015 10:39
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ulvir posted:I didn't say it bothered me, I just said that the non-diegetic usage was a bit unneccessary. I can't recall if the same happened with native americans re: their depictions in the book, but if so than that's equally pointless (and maybe even worse) Never thought about this before. Are chapter headings really non-diegetic? Also, don't concern yourself with high/lowbrow, talk about good books, say why they're good, everyone's happy. High v. lowbrow is more about bullshit one-upping on your cultural capital and people should move on i.m.h.goddam.o
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Apr 6, 2015 11:38
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J_RBG posted:Never thought about this before. Are chapter headings really non-diegetic? I assumed they were, but I might just be an idiot. Maybe there's a lit. theory prof or post-grad around who might set the record straight here.
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Apr 6, 2015 11:47
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Borneo Jimmy posted:So that bothered you but not his depiction of Native Americans as howling bloodthirsty savages? From the perspective of a white teenager whose only contact with them is trying to avoid being murdered by them...
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Apr 6, 2015 11:56
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Borneo Jimmy posted:So that bothered you but not his depiction of Native Americans as howling bloodthirsty savages? Seriously? The book clearly says that most of the Native Americans the Glanton gang encounters are peaceful and that Glanton and his crew poses a bigger threat than any of the Native Americans ever did.
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Apr 6, 2015 12:08
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Alhazred posted:Seriously? The book clearly says that most of the Native Americans the Glanton gang encounters are peaceful and that Glanton and his crew poses a bigger threat than any of the Native Americans ever did. What about the part where the native americans charge the gang from a hill or from wherever?
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Apr 6, 2015 13:46
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Boatswain posted:What about the part where the native americans charge the gang from a hill or from wherever? I think the whole novel is supposed to be a hyper-violenced take on the old west in order to be a meditation of the violent nature of man and society. Literally everyone in the novel is portrayed as savage and violent and I am not sure its entirely accurate to say the Apaches get the worst of it.
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Apr 6, 2015 14:09
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