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You know in Kid Icarus: Uprising, you could dodge all you wanted to, but your dodges would get slower and you'd lose invincibility if you spammed it too much. I wonder if a similar implementation could work in Smash?
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Apr 6, 2015 02:00
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Smash needs heavyweight command grabbers to counter the lightweight swifty bastards.
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Apr 6, 2015 02:01
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Slow characters in other games have tools like super armor or a handful of incredibly scary moves (SPDs being the obvious example) whose existence significantly limit the opponent's options. I don't really see either for Smash 4's big dudes. Like Bowser's koopa claw in P:M is armored and leads to a huge amount of damage if it grabs (or a kill) so you need to be careful when you're approaching from certain angles since he can just armor through a lot of approaches. Or DK's throw leading to really scary mix-ups or kills regularly. Ganon is sorta weird because he doesn't really have those sorts of moves (though down-throw is pretty scary), but he has a lot of really fast buttons that can kill, he's just sorta slow otherwise and lacks a lot of good responses to pressure. I don't think sakurai needs to mimic P:M's solution to the Big Boy Problem but it's a decent start.
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Apr 6, 2015 02:01
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Honestly if you want slow characters to actually work then they probably need to be bigger than they are now to work in Smash so they can effectively corner people. Like as much poo poo as Ridley gets for how big he'd have to be to work, that's basically what it would take for slow characters to have a shot -- that inevitability that comes with letting them close in where you will have to take hits to get space again. E: DK's custom tornado solves a lot of his problems actually -- it actually pulls you close if you're not careful, giving it extra reach, and since he has super armor you have to take the hit.
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Apr 6, 2015 02:04
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I don't think size is the problem, considering how easy it is to get hits on the slow characters in part because of their size. Thats why I said I wish the game reset to neutral more (mostly to make king of springs mad, but) so big heavies wouldn't get so easily juggled. Donkey Kong's tornado up b gets a lot of people mad but its exactly the kind of thing a heavy needs
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Apr 6, 2015 02:07
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FactsAreUseless posted:Can I see a video? I want to learn to do this. this is just from a quick search so there are probably even better examples but here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVnuQEC-pyI&t=105s killing at really low percents will generally only be on stages with low ceilings like halberd or delfino plaza, but even on a normal stage like smashville it kills way earlier than it has any right to. if you want to watch a player to try to learn rosalina from, dabuz is good player to watch
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Apr 6, 2015 02:10
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Dabuz is a good player to learn from, if you hate fun and your opponent.
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Apr 6, 2015 02:32
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Who do I watch if i hate myself?
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Apr 6, 2015 02:34
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Everyone says "everyone should be buffed to the level of the top tiers!" but there are too many characters for that to work. From what I can tell, the majority of the cast is pretty even to each other, its just a few standout characters on both ends that need reworking. It's a lot simpler to just nerf those top characters who just have stupidly good moves.
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Apr 6, 2015 02:38
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mabels big day posted:Everyone says "everyone should be buffed to the level of the top tiers!" but there are too many characters for that to work. From what I can tell, the majority of the cast is pretty even to each other, its just a few standout characters on both ends that need reworking. It's a lot simpler to just nerf those top characters who just have stupidly good moves. Sure if you want to suck all the fun out of the game for the people who aren't low tier heroes.
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Apr 6, 2015 02:39
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mabels big day posted:Everyone says "everyone should be buffed to the level of the top tiers!" but there are too many characters for that to work. From what I can tell, the majority of the cast is pretty even to each other, its just a few standout characters on both ends that need reworking. It's a lot simpler to just nerf those top characters who just have stupidly good moves. Nerf [That one OP character] and BAM everyone's good 
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Apr 6, 2015 02:44
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So what are some Punch Out! characters that are worthy of voting for? King Hippo? Soda Popinski? Soda Popinski.
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Apr 6, 2015 02:44
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Jellymouth posted:So what are some Punch Out! characters that are worthy of voting for? King Hippo? Soda Popinski? Doc Louis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsXNkcGNBHs
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Apr 6, 2015 02:46
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Jellymouth posted:So what are some Punch Out! characters that are worthy of voting for? King Hippo? Soda Popinski? Aran Ryan or Disco Kid
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Apr 6, 2015 02:47
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Cut recovery times on all moves in half (except for Diddy and Rosalina)
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Apr 6, 2015 02:51
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Countblanc posted:Slow characters in other games have tools like super armor or a handful of incredibly scary moves (SPDs being the obvious example) whose existence significantly limit the opponent's options. I don't really see either for Smash 4's big dudes. Like Bowser's koopa claw in P:M is armored and leads to a huge amount of damage if it grabs (or a kill) so you need to be careful when you're approaching from certain angles since he can just armor through a lot of approaches. Or DK's throw leading to really scary mix-ups or kills regularly. Ganon is sorta weird because he doesn't really have those sorts of moves (though down-throw is pretty scary), but he has a lot of really fast buttons that can kill, he's just sorta slow otherwise and lacks a lot of good responses to pressure. actually he does
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Apr 6, 2015 02:55
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F. Lobot posted:Cut recovery times on all moves in half (except for Diddy and Rosalina) You must play a character with a bad matchup against Rosalina for you to crusade against her after she got nerfed from top tier to upper-mid.
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Apr 6, 2015 02:57
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Jellymouth posted:So what are some Punch Out! characters that are worthy of voting for? King Hippo? Soda Popinski? Bald Bull for the taunts
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Apr 6, 2015 02:58
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TenaciousJ posted:You must play a character with a bad matchup against Rosalina for you to crusade against her after she got nerfed from top tier to upper-mid. Every character has a bad matchup with her because she's a boring character to fight under any circumstance
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Apr 6, 2015 03:01
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rosalina is beautiful...
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Apr 6, 2015 03:02
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Dizz posted:Nerf [That one OP character] and BAM everyone's good More like, [Those five or six OP characters]
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Apr 6, 2015 03:02
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Ruggington posted:Every character has a bad matchup with her because she's a boring character to fight under any circumstance Zero just won NCR with Captain Falcon in Grand Finals and there was no Rosalina anywhere in top 8. She's too good!
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Apr 6, 2015 03:02
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TenaciousJ posted:Don Flamenco for the taunts
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Apr 6, 2015 03:03
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While we're talking Punch-Out, am I the only one who doesn't like the design of Little Mac in Smash as much as the one on the Wii? He just looks too angry and serious all the time, even when he taunts or wins a match.
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Apr 6, 2015 03:03
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Don Flamenco doesn't have anything on those Bald Bull grunts from the NES.
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Apr 6, 2015 03:03
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Bluff Buster posted:While we're talking Punch-Out, am I the only one who doesn't like the design of Little Mac in Smash as much as the one on the Wii? He just looks too angry and serious all the time, even when he taunts or wins a match. He looks more smug than angry to me.
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Apr 6, 2015 03:04
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TenaciousJ posted:Zero just won NCR with Captain Falcon in Grand Finals and there was no Rosalina anywhere. She's so great. It's good that no one is playing that dumb boring character I agree
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Apr 6, 2015 03:04
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F. Lobot posted:Cut recovery times on all moves in half (except for Diddy and Rosalina) I know it's a different kind of recovery than you're talking about, but I'd like to see characters less able to recover from absolutely ridiculous distances. It's not just Villager, I've seen more than one Luigi (not singling him out, just an example) make it back from the very bottom-left corner of the blastzone, taking magnifying damage and everything. Which was impressive, if not somewhat ridiculous. While I'm glad that nearly everyone has a superior recover now (goodbye forever tether recoveries, you won't be missed), it feels like if your opponent doesn't knock you past the blastzone and your name isn't Little Mac or Ganondorf, you'll be able to get back 99% of the time. Which is good but maybe drags fights out a little longer than they could be, especially if your character doesn't have a very strong offstage game.
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Apr 6, 2015 03:04
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TenaciousJ posted:Don Flamenco doesn't have anything on those Bald Bull grunts from the NES. He has a rose and a sweet toupee.
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Apr 6, 2015 03:06
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Actually I'd nominate Piston Honda as a Smash character but isn't he an Assist?
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Apr 6, 2015 03:06
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TenaciousJ posted:Zero just won NCR with Captain Falcon in Grand Finals and there was no Rosalina anywhere in top 8. She's too good! yeah both the guys in grand finals were diddy mains and they both decided to play their other fun characters instead.
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Apr 6, 2015 03:08
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mabels big day posted:yeah both the guys in grand finals were diddy mains and they both decided to play their other fun characters instead. And that's evidence that anyone but Diddy is too good? Buff some characters like Bowser Jr so they aren't worthless for people who are good at the game instead of nerfing the good characters unless you want 10 more years of melee.
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Apr 6, 2015 03:13
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TenaciousJ posted:And that's evidence that anyone but Diddy is too good? Buff some characters like Bowser Jr so they aren't worthless for people who are good at the game instead of nerfing the good characters unless you want 10 more years of melee. /me says in really badass voice "I do."
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Apr 6, 2015 03:14
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TenaciousJ posted:And that's evidence that anyone but Diddy is too good? Buff some characters like Bowser Jr so they aren't worthless for people who are good at the game instead of nerfing the good characters unless you want 10 more years of melee. What are you even on about dude.
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Apr 6, 2015 03:16
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TenaciousJ posted:You must play a character with a bad matchup against Rosalina for you to crusade against her after she got nerfed from top tier to upper-mid. The Japanese tier list disagrees. 
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Apr 6, 2015 03:18
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^^^ Japan only plays on FD. Stages have an effect on matchups. I'll just step back and be glad SA has almost no say in balancing a Smash game because you'd be the only ones left playing it in a year.
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Apr 6, 2015 03:19
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Jellymouth posted:So what are some Punch Out! characters that are worthy of voting for? Aran Ryan's my favorite, but let's be real here. It's time to release the bogus.
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Apr 6, 2015 03:19
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TenaciousJ posted:^^^ lol if you think people wouldn't be playing The Newest Smash until the next game came out regardless of the quality, even competitively
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Apr 6, 2015 03:20
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F. Lobot posted:The Japanese tier list disagrees. yeah dude the Japanese meta is like 100% FD all the time
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Apr 6, 2015 03:21
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"Yeah, the character I main, I'd say they're mid tier." - Everyone
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Apr 6, 2015 03:21
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