Dr. Killjoy posted:

Worse, he looks more like an Eric Allie type.

majormonotone posted:

majormonotone posted:

6

there wolf posted:

I think I'm on Pitchfork's side with this one. The inde scene is super white, especially the parts of it that approach more mainstream music scenes, and white people in general are granted more prestige and credibility than POCs in art, even when it's a type of art that originated in a POC culture. That being said, I find this particular piece messy and a bit redundant.The author was trying to make a case for how the inde scene reinforces it's own homogenous image by excluding POC representation and devaluing POC artists, but the result is a scatter-shot collection of grievances rather than a cohesive pattern of behavior. Even if the subject matter is laudable, it's just not a good article.

Mellow Seas posted:

It's fine to say that indie rock is too white, it's not fine to say that one particular guy is too white.

there wolf posted:

I think I'm on Pitchfork's side with this one. The inde scene is super white, especially the parts of it that approach more mainstream music scenes, and white people in general are granted more prestige and credibility than POCs in art, even when it's a type of art that originated in a POC culture. That being said, I find this particular piece messy and a bit redundant.The author was trying to make a case for how the inde scene reinforces it's own homogenous image by excluding POC representation and devaluing POC artists, but the result is a scatter-shot collection of grievances rather than a cohesive pattern of behavior. Even if the subject matter is laudable, it's just not a good article.

quote:

Let’s look at some of the examples you chose to illustrate your far-flung complaints about this general scourge of Whiteness: Major Lazer (cultural appropriation), Bono (white savior complex), Miley Cyrus and Taylor Swift (…icons of White aspiration?). Other than Major Lazer, those artists are about as indie as chicken soup is corned beef. The example you used to support the ill perception of an artist of color threatening a white “space” is the fracas over Kanye West headlining the Glastonbury Festival. Wow, that’s so indie that it’s…not at all indie.


I figured you were going to refocus your argument. But of the four musicians you cite under a very broad definition of “independent scene,” you chose to focus on M.I.A. and Heems, rooted in rap, and then try to make the case that their messages are not taken seriously in a musical genre historically dominated by young African-Americans by comparing them to…three white rock musicians aged 46, 61, and 54 respectively.
Sarah, let’s forget that major-label Bono had a career before he drove to Africa, because I think the bigger issue is your contention about the price of music with a message. I don’t know if you have functioning eyes, but the hip-hop landscape isn’t that heavily laced with the horrible Whiteness you’re describing. So it seems odd that you’d step outside the relevant music scene to make such a heated point unless the point would fall flat if you didn’t.

Sarah, regardless of how scattered your argument became, I kept coming back to one thing: motivation. What’s the POINT of this article you wrote? Who are you trying to help? What are you trying to accomplish? You name four prominent performers who “look like you,” but you never so much as mention a struggling band of “browns” you know and love who’ve been actively shut out of consideration by racist music labels because they don’t fit the marketable concept of “Whiteness.” There’s nothing like that.

But who needs clear, tangible evidence when giving the IMPRESSION of an “omnipresent” problem will attract just as much if not more attention? You give the impression there are “masses of talent,” artists with skin color running the gamut from Korean milk to Sudanese sable, lined up at the doors of every independent record label in the U.S. and elsewhere, doors that won’t yield because the password is “Caucasian.” But you don’t name any of them.

Sarah, I’m not suggesting there isn’t something worth investigating here, just that you did a crappy, needlessly divisive job trying. Maybe there are clearer, more practical reasons for a lot of white people in indie rock beyond nebulous buzzwords like “microaggresions” or “sanctioned participation,” and some of those reasons may well be rooted in legacies of racism. Maybe other socioeconomic factors exert a strong causal effect on development of musical interest and aptitude. If children of color are more likely than whites to attend schools with gutted music programs and if a higher share have trouble finding safe creative space to practice in the confines of broken neighborhoods, that’s legit. That’s tangible, something potentially quantifiable and well worth investigating, something I think a lot of people would absorb with passionate interest and want to help change. You could have ultimately written an inspiring article about how we as human beings can foster musical aptitude and appreciation — the roots of musical success — in ALL people, because music is such a powerful force for good in the world.

But you didn’t do that. You wrote an mean-spirited article in the mold of so many “pressing issue” pieces today: Two pages of doomsaying and shaming, then a feeble conclusion that ends with something along the lines of “more must be done to address climate change”

Fulchrum posted:

Have we seen Kirschen have his meltdown yet?

Fulchrum posted:

Wait, so it was done and I missed it? How far back?

colonel_korn posted:

If you're referring to the Iran deal, he hasn't commented yet. It's been mostly old-man Passover jokes since last week.

fade5 posted:

Yeah he hasn't said anything about the Iran deal, which is pretty weird given how everyone else (except Tinsley) has already had their say on the deal.

quote:

Happy Passover!
The munching continues!

Lustful Man Hugs posted:

Don't Iranian Jews have protected seats in the Iranian legislature?

Apple Pie Hubbub posted:

Muir did two versions of his latest cartoon. Choose your favorite.

1

2

the_steve posted:

Wait, so Damon is building THEIR club, not HIS club? Wasn't it his idea in the first place to open a private male-only sanctuary?
I mean, yeah, he's just Zed's handpuppet in blackface, but still.

Apple Pie Hubbub posted:

3

Apple Pie Hubbub posted:

3

.Edward Penischin posted:

You heard him...let's win some poo poo!

Apple Pie Hubbub posted:

Stultus Maximus posted:

You're too charitable. The article was a complete mess of half-thoughts and pretensions. Even more so than usual Pitchfork, I mean.

http://ripfork.com/2015/03/response-to-the-unbearable-whiteness-of-indie-by-sarah-sahim/

there wolf posted:

No, I've just been involved in social justice stuff too long to really get all that worked up by the many, many pop piece that come out about it. An article about race in inde music put out by Pitchfork? Pretty much knew what was coming was going to be a formulaic piece that opens with an 'I enjoy this but must now express my disappointment and criticize it', then 2-3 examples supporting the thesis of the piece, and all of it linked together by a summation of one or several theories that anyone not familiar with social justice advocacy over the last five years or so is going to feel alienated by. I've seen those kinds of articles done well, but this one is definitely a bad one and makes me want to act like a parent admonishing a child to do better next time. "It's now why you did it, it's how you did little Timmy."

.Edward Penischin posted:

You heard him...let's win some poo poo!

The Droid posted:

Requesting "women in combat means babies in combat" cartoon with the pink ribbon and the fetus wearing the american flag

.Edward Penischin posted:

You heard him...let's win some poo poo!

.Edward Penischin posted:

The cartoonist does not know how grayhound racing works.

Samurai Sanders posted:

I used to think that internet social justice activism was an ok thing to be into, but then I realized that articles like that one (and I presume what is a response to as well) are what people think of when they think of that, and that's just the way things are. I have learned my lesson.

there wolf posted:

I should probably respond with something noble about remaining optimistic in the face of misrepresentation and fighting the good fight but I mostly stay in for the opportunities to troll bigots.

there wolf posted:

He also apparently doesn't know what a greyhound is...

Apple Pie Hubbub posted:

3

Air is lava! posted:

Is that a legitimate concern in America? Are your wastewater treatment plants that bad? I've heard you can't drink tap water either. So what do you scrub your churches with? Thawed ice cubes imported from the arctic ocean?
Usually I like Two Bull but this seems just kind of weird. I would understand it if he told me that he has a problem with artifical snow and teraforming in general. But complaining that this water was in the treatment cycle before, seems ridiculous. And of course keeping the water in the taps is cheaper than using it to make snow, but then they wouldn't have any snow. That's such a pointless statement. "Why do you keep using this elevator? Cutting off the power would be so much cheaper."

I don't actually know why this cartoon annoys me such much. I guess I expected better.
But do native American groups actually share that exact concern? I can't imagine they would prefer caught rainwater or something like that either.

CampingCarl posted:

With how Ramirez does stretched proportions on heads it is very likely that the dogs on the track are in fact pugs.

Cruel and Unusual posted:

Tim Buckley is more deserving of the Pulitzer Prize than Ramirez.

xthetenth posted:

They look a lot like basset hounds actually.