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Having now beaten HM2 (thanks to several assists from this thread), I do want to praise something about the title. I love, love, love the idea of crafting levels around the mask abilities. In HM1, almost everyone I know just found one mask that worked for them and used that one every time. So to bring that experimentation into the fold and make it mandatory is, I think, a wise decision. Its just a shame that the level design and general philosophy were so radically altered. The level architecture, enemy placement, and small tweaks to the gameplay all conspire to basically play the game as a lovely cover shooter. There are times where that works, and certain levels do stand out as a successful proof of concept (the bank heist etc.) But overall, I really disliked the lack of opportunities for melee attacks. When I finally got to the last normal level, I found a small section where a melee throw and execute was helpful and actually grinned. The door smashing and ground executions had been so nullified at that point that it was a bit like discovering an old friend.
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Apr 6, 2015 19:53
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People probably knew all about this, but yesterday on my commute home, a biker stopped in front of me and I saw this I notice that the skull on Biker's jacket is also missing the lower jaw. Is there any way that this is a real reference, or just a coincidence? Also, if we're to go into things that the characters represent (IE, the fans ingame are the fans IRL), what does Biker represent in metastory terms?
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Apr 7, 2015 20:30
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Skyscraper posted:People probably knew all about this, but yesterday on my commute home, a biker stopped in front of me and I saw this The punisher skull doesn't have a lower jaw and its really famous, there's lots of different skull forms. I don't think it means anything. Google "Skull and crossbones" and half of them have the jaw, half of them don't. Biker can be seen a few ways, the way I interpret it. For one, he's the players in HM1 who wanted a meaning and wanted to understand, rather than the players who just wanted to have fun and see violence for violence's sake. Biker is the players who needed a reason, they needed a "story" in the game rather than just levels. He's the conscience that Jacket lacks. While Jacket says almost nothing and his apartment is a mess, disconnected from reality, Biker talks and seems to actually have a social life. Jacket just does what he's told but Biker rebels and wants to know why. Jacket just starts getting the calls and responds to them, while Biker signed up for "some patriotic bullshit", again concerned with the world. (Although he turns on 50 blessings when he sees what it amounts to) Jacket is nihilsim, Biker is reason and meaning. Another way of looking at it is that Jacket is the Id, while Biker is the ego, in the Freudian sense. Jacket thinks only of himself and his immediate desires but Biker wants to know more about the world around him. In that case Richard would probably be the superego, judging the morals of Jacket and Biker. Richard says in HM1, "Do you really want me to reveal who you are? Knowing oneself means acknowledging one's actions". This is the superego addressing the self. Jacket, Biker, and Richard form a trinity of characters in the original Hotline Miami 1, where the meta is about videogames and you the player and violence. The stuff with the Fans and Jake and the other characters in HM2 is instead a meta about Hotline Miami 1 itself as a game and the players, media, and environment around it. I should probably take a look at Biker and Jacket's roles in HM2 again to see what that may imply. Its worth noting that the film Drive which inspired Hotline Miami also has Freudian allusions; the term "Drive" refers both literally to driving a car as well as the inner "drive" a person's character defines in them, the things they feel driven to do. The main character of Drive often wears the scorpion jacket (and Jacket is known for his Jacket too) which is itself an allusion to the scorpion and the frog, a tale where a scorpion stings a frog even though he agreed not to and even though it dooms the scorpion too; because its "in his nature". (Or "its what he's driven to do") It represents what you do, what you have to do, even without meaning to. What you repeat unintentionally because that's who you are. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive_theory Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Apr 7, 2015 |
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Apr 7, 2015 20:57
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Zaphod42 posted:Another way of looking at it is that Jacket is the Id, while Biker is the ego, in the Freudian sense. Jacket thinks only of himself and his immediate desires but Biker wants to know more about the world around him. In that case Richard would probably be the superego, judging the morals of Jacket and Biker.  this is an amazing post and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter
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Apr 7, 2015 21:50
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I, too, think day and night about the meaning of brutally killing russians with chainsaws and assault rifles
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Apr 7, 2015 21:52
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qnqnx posted:I, too, think day and night about the meaning of brutally killing russians with chainsaws and assault rifles The game basically begs you to every 30 seconds so it's not like you don't have a reason
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Apr 7, 2015 22:00
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Skyscraper posted:
I know "Its all Freud!" can be pretty  but seems like there's some strong links in there.
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Apr 7, 2015 22:18
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Zaphod42 posted:I know "Its all Freud!" can be pretty Freudian theory is actually pretty useful when it comes to fiction even (though it obviously isn't the end-all be-all)
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Apr 8, 2015 01:52
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A bit late to the discussion but the thing for me that took away from HM1/the story more the any of Jacket's characterization/backstory was the reveal that the game took place in alternate history where Russia had invaded US soil (Hawaii) and nuked San Fran. I personally liked the idea that it was a very much normal world, and all the "Russians are badguys" was exactly what HM1 kinda made it out to be: pointless killing under the guise for doing it for a greater purpose. At least, I think like the idea of 50 blessings being a nutso patriot group works a bit better if it's more cold war/red scare hysteria.
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Apr 8, 2015 03:21
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Oxyclean posted:A bit late to the discussion but the thing for me that took away from HM1/the story more the any of Jacket's characterization/backstory was the reveal that the game took place in alternate history where Russia had invaded US soil (Hawaii) and nuked San Fran. I personally liked the idea that it was a very much normal world, and all the "Russians are badguys" was exactly what HM1 kinda made it out to be: pointless killing under the guise for doing it for a greater purpose. At least, I think like the idea of 50 blessings being a nutso patriot group works a bit better if it's more cold war/red scare hysteria. HM1 sunk this ship pretty hard, sorry.
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Apr 8, 2015 03:30
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Oxyclean posted:A bit late to the discussion but the thing for me that took away from HM1/the story more the any of Jacket's characterization/backstory was the reveal that the game took place in alternate history where Russia had invaded US soil (Hawaii) and nuked San Fran. I personally liked the idea that it was a very much normal world, and all the "Russians are badguys" was exactly what HM1 kinda made it out to be: pointless killing under the guise for doing it for a greater purpose. At least, I think like the idea of 50 blessings being a nutso patriot group works a bit better if it's more cold war/red scare hysteria. Did you see the ending of HM1 after collecting the puzzle pieces?
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Apr 8, 2015 03:36
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Yeah, well, it's still nothing but pointless killing anyway. Remember, the Russians invaded Hawaii, but the ones in Miami are nowhere near there. They are probably Americans, some maybe even natural citizens raised by immigrants, some who might have even wanted to get away from Soviet Russia and join the United States. There is never any connection between the Russian Mob and the Russian War; hell, they probably wanted nothing to do with it, hence being in Miami and as far as possible away from Hawaii. Think of it sort of like how during World War II those of a Japanese descent were put in interment camps and even after the war had ended many were still harassed for being simply someone who had the mistake of being born and raised in the US, but coming from a Japanese family.
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Apr 8, 2015 04:37
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Skunkrocker posted:Yeah, well, it's still nothing but pointless killing anyway. Remember, the Russians invaded Hawaii, but the ones in Miami are nowhere near there. They are probably Americans, some maybe even natural citizens raised by immigrants, some who might have even wanted to get away from Soviet Russia and join the United States. There is never any connection between the Russian Mob and the Russian War; hell, they probably wanted nothing to do with it, hence being in Miami and as far as possible away from Hawaii. Think of it sort of like how during World War II those of a Japanese descent were put in interment camps and even after the war had ended many were still harassed for being simply someone who had the mistake of being born and raised in the US, but coming from a Japanese family. I suppose. But it the reveal of Russia's invasion still strikes me as nothing more then to give 50 blessings real motivation and just feels weird in general. Improbable Lobster posted:Did you see the ending of HM1 after collecting the puzzle pieces? Oh, I guess I didn't. I thought I looked it up at some point but missed the part where the explicitly mention the Ruso-American Coalition and that "We'll have this country back on its feet soon enough" Guess the idea was in from the start then. (B-but everyone told me that bonus ending was non-canon and just there for people who wanted a "real answer"!)
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Apr 8, 2015 05:17
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With regards to Jacket though, Do we really know for certain at this point that he was not aware of 50 Blessings goals? I mean, they came out of his former unit, using his former unit's radio procedures and the whole mask thing is based on his CO going nuts with a panther skin. At this point it seems more likely that even though he has a loose grip on reality, he does still understands that he is killing Russians for being Russian and that it is in some way connected to his killing Russians in the war. The only part this falls down in is when Richter kills his girlfriend, but even then, once he deals with Richter he goes straight back to 'avenging' Beard.
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Apr 8, 2015 07:16
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Indrid_Cold posted:With regards to Jacket though, Do we really know for certain at this point that he was not aware of 50 Blessings goals? I mean, they came out of his former unit, using his former unit's radio procedures and the whole mask thing is based on his CO going nuts with a panther skin. When can we stop using block spoiler text? Anyway, in HLM1, he goes after Richter (he breaks into the police station and everything), and Richter is all like "I don't know any more about this than you do, but the police must have a file on this." You get the address for the Russian Mob bar (Golden Truckstop) from the police file, and from there, you get the address for The Boss's place. But... what is his motivation for busting into the police station - to get Richter or whatever, right? for revenge? - and he finds out Richter is a pawn or w/e and lets him live (or just doesn't kill him?), then... 'guess I'll go back to killing Russians, but on my own'? I mean, I guess that follows and makes sense, only if Jacket was killing Russians for killing Russians sake, and 50 Blessings phonecalls were just facilitating it. But then why the revenge trip through the police station just to rough up Richter?
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Apr 8, 2015 08:42
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Ambivalent posted:I mean, I guess that follows and makes sense, only if Jacket was killing Russians for killing Russians sake, and 50 Blessings phonecalls were just facilitating it. But then why the revenge trip through the police station just to rough up Richter? He doesn't kill Richter because in part it'd be admitting that he too is just a murderer, partly because it's his fault he got hooker killed by bringing her into the whole situation, and mostly because he realized he had no real way of tracking down the actual 50 blessings (as Richard tells him in their final conversation) so he just goes for the closure he can get by finishing off the mob.
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Apr 8, 2015 08:57
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Ambivalent posted:I mean, I guess that follows and makes sense, only if Jacket was killing Russians for killing Russians sake, and 50 Blessings phonecalls were just facilitating it. But then why the revenge trip through the police station just to rough up Richter? Richter killed his grilfriend, a crazy dude doesn't need more motivation than that to get revenge. The info on the mob was a bonus.  But the reason he doesn't kill Richter in my opinion is probably because he knows Richter's just a pawn in the 50 blessings game, like he himself is. The game doesn't ever say or even hint at the real reason why so the legit actual answer can only possibly be "whatever reason you come up with because you're playing as him when it happens and all". CJacobs fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Apr 8, 2015 |
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Apr 8, 2015 08:59
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CJacobs posted:Richter killed his grilfriend, a crazy dude doesn't need more motivation than that to get revenge. The info on the mob was a bonus. It just seems like 'the people directing me to kill russians just had my girlfriend killed, so I'm going to go beat up the assassin but not kill him, then go back to killing russians without their direction' feels like a really weird jumble of mixed up motivation. Choosing not to kill Richter feels like an admission that Richter is not responsible, and that Richter has been manipulated/threatened. In a typical revenge storyline, the next step would be 'so now I go after who is really responsible', but instead Jacket's response seems to be 'oh well, I'll go do something else now.' That isn't what happens, which makes it confusing. I guess it makes sense viewed through a lens of HLM2's view that Jacket had a real indiscriminate hatred for Russians or something, but through HLM1's view, seems odd. Ambivalent fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Apr 8, 2015 |
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Apr 8, 2015 09:03
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CJacobs posted:Richter killed his grilfriend, a crazy dude doesn't need more motivation than that to get revenge. The info on the mob was a bonus. Yeah, pretty much this, I mean the two main versions of Jacket, that -He is so far into his psychosis that he is killing whoever is in front of him using whatever motivation is convenient at the time, 'The phone calls told me to do it' 'they killed my girlfriend' 'they killed my friend' and is too far gone to link what he is doing with his past or... -That he is aware that he is killing Russians, and is totally fine with it because he blames them for the death of his mentor/best mate. When 50 blessings kills his girlfriend, he feels the need to retaliate because she had a positive impact on his life but once that is done he reverts to his ongoing fixation. Are both pretty valid given the story. Dudes loving crazy either way. My main reason for leaning towards the second one is because of his past, his hallucinations of beard and the fact that at the end, his big deal to show that he is done is letting go of his photo.
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Apr 8, 2015 10:45
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I only need ONE achievement for "Achievement Whore" and its the 50k kills... I have only 28k. God drat it this game.
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Apr 8, 2015 13:17
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So, why DID Richter kill the girlfriend? I know Jacket didn't stop killing Russians just because she was around. Edit: I mean, why did 50 Blessings order the girlfriend killed, not why did Richter do it.
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Apr 8, 2015 17:05
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They thought Jacket, and by extension his girlfriend, probably knew too much.
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Apr 8, 2015 17:35
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The way I interpret it is that the girlfriend was having too much of a positive impact on Jacket's life, which was causing him to respond to calls less readily or less often.
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Apr 8, 2015 17:41
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Did they ever actually say anything to this effect, or was it just what you'd generally figure about this kind of thing?
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Apr 8, 2015 17:48
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Stairmaster posted:He doesn't kill Richter because in part it'd be admitting that he too is just a murderer, partly because it's his fault he got hooker killed by bringing her into the whole situation, and mostly because he realized he had no real way of tracking down the actual 50 blessings (as Richard tells him in their final conversation) so he just goes for the closure he can get by finishing off the mob. He doesn't kill Richter because they don't want you to. You can kill him fine and dandy in HLM1, it's just that he lives anyways in 2.
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Apr 8, 2015 17:56
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Skyscraper posted:Did they ever actually say anything to this effect, or was it just what you'd generally figure about this kind of thing? It's almost entirely an assumption on my end, but I got that impression from the intro to Deadline, where the phonecall seems agitated and even adds "In case you forgot" to the end of the address. But in the same scene, Jacket is also hallucinating one of the heavy enemies is using his kitchen sink with one empty eye socket, so it's not exactly solid ground.
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Apr 8, 2015 18:02
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Geight posted:It's almost entirely an assumption on my end, but I got that impression from the intro to Deadline, where the phonecall seems agitated and even adds "In case you forgot" to the end of the address. But in the same scene, Jacket is also hallucinating one of the heavy enemies is using his kitchen sink with one empty eye socket, so it's not exactly solid ground. I always took that as part of the message's pretense that Jacket's real persona knows something about the places he's going, rather than just saying "Go here and kill some Russians".
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Apr 8, 2015 18:14
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Ambivalent posted:It just seems like 'the people directing me to kill russians just had my girlfriend killed, so I'm going to go beat up the assassin but not kill him, then go back to killing russians without their direction' feels like a really weird jumble of mixed up motivation. Choosing not to kill Richter feels like an admission that Richter is not responsible, and that Richter has been manipulated/threatened. In a typical revenge storyline, the next step would be 'so now I go after who is really responsible', but instead Jacket's response seems to be 'oh well, I'll go do something else now.' That isn't what happens, which makes it confusing. Once you get the file from the police station and read it at the start of Showdown it says something like "these calls have been traced to X address", which happens to be where the boss Russian lives. 50 Blessings have been routing the calls through there. So presumably Jacket sees "right, the calls are coming from here, this must be 50 Blessings", and goes to kill everyone. I guess he doesn't know it's Russian HQ until he gets there?
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Apr 8, 2015 18:33
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This is assuming that Jacket knows that the calls are coming from 50B, which he doesn't. All he knows is that the people who are calling him killed his girlfriend and the calls are coming from the Russian bar, and so he figures that whoever is the boss of the bar must be behind the calls and sent the assassin, not realizing that it's the boss of the same people he's been killing the whole time. Biker is the one who finds the janitors, and they're the ones who reveal that 50B are behind the calls.
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Apr 8, 2015 18:49
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turboraton posted:I only need ONE achievement for "Achievement Whore" and its the 50k kills... I have only 28k. God drat it this game. We're in the same boat there, buddy   Talking about boats, Dead Ahead looks to be a cool map to farm these kills. Lots of enemies there, got 1k kills for half an hour. Of course the less boring way is to just play the game, or to wait for the editor to come out.
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Apr 8, 2015 21:52
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If you're going to be a sad brain idiot baby the best way to 'grind kills' is: Start First Blood normal mode. See if the first enemy has a machine gun. If so, grab it in the first 2 seconds after starting the level. You'll respawn with it in your hands. Shoot all except 1 dude. Respawn w/ the gun. Repeat. If he has a shotgun Also, the HLM1/2 Gamersedition pack got funded. 14 days left to order it.
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Apr 8, 2015 22:09
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Anatharon posted:Also, the HLM1/2 Gamersedition pack got funded. 14 days left to order it. ???
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Apr 8, 2015 22:43
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https://www.gamersedition.com/product/hotline-miami Super Duper Double Secret Probation Collector's Edition That physical comic is tempting.
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Apr 8, 2015 22:45
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It'll only be worth it if it comes with a demo for Hotline Miami. 4: Blood Dragons.
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Apr 8, 2015 23:54
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I guess "Gamer's Edition" translates to "Edition for People Who Want a Physical Collector's Edition and Feelies But Don't Own a Turntable". VV No kidding, but to get all the best tracks (i.e all of them) would take like three or four cassettes. King Vidiot fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Apr 9, 2015 |
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Apr 9, 2015 00:15
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i really just want the cassette
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Apr 9, 2015 00:16
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I recently found out that The Guardians of the Galaxy soundtrack was the second best selling cassette tape of 2014. Like... those are still a thing and it boggles my loving mind. I haven't seen a cassette player in years that isn't one I personally own. What the hell is with you people and cassette tapes? The vinyl thing I kind of get, but tapes?!
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Apr 9, 2015 03:21
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Skunkrocker posted:I recently found out that The Guardians of the Galaxy soundtrack was the second best selling cassette tape of 2014. It's only because of Chris Pratt having an old Sony Walkman in the movie, that's the only reason people were getting the cassette tape. It's also the reason why sales of old Sony Walkmans shot up along with the price, there was just a big demand all of a sudden for that specific model of cassette player he had in the movie. Also I was kind of joking, cassettes suck. It'd be a neat thing to have though considering the fact that cassettes are practically synonymous with the time period of the game and cassette tape imagery is all over the game, in loading screens etc.
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Apr 9, 2015 03:26
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Cassettes look cool but these days that's all they have going for them
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Apr 9, 2015 03:47
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i drive a car that still has a casette tape player so i'd greatly appreciate it
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Apr 9, 2015 03:59
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