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guys im getting the feeling this game might be poorly written
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Apr 7, 2015 07:17
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Clarste posted:Wekin's not army, and the Militia is only mobilized for external invasions. Welkin's never wanted to be Army, so why is it surprising that the dorky nature-loving guy gets a dorky nature-loving job? Most people who fought in wars didn't want to be there. They fought out of a sense of obligation or got drafted and had no say in the first place. VVV Right, but I'm guessing his character isn't supposed to be "selfish rear end in a top hat that is willing to let others die in his stead so he can stare at bugs" Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Apr 7, 2015 |
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Apr 7, 2015 07:40
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Internet Kraken posted:Most people who fought in wars didn't want to be there. They fought out of a sense of obligation or got drafted and had no say in the first place. Ergo, he feels no obligation and can't be drafted because of whatever legal issue prevents the Militia from being used in civil wars.
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Apr 7, 2015 08:01
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My next update includes karate chopping an ice cube and being super impressed by it, so I think you guys are overthinking this
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Apr 7, 2015 08:07
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Tae posted:My next update includes karate chopping an ice cube and being super impressed by it, so I think you guys are overthinking this At this point, thinking at all is overthinking this. Valykria Chronicles 2, I have an offer. Why don't we replace Lotte with Lotte from Bad Machinery? She's just as inappropriate in a battlefield situation and it would make no sense, so you'd be satisfied. Meanwhile, the viewers would have a character other than Zeri with two brain cells to rub together. We'd all win.
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Apr 7, 2015 09:00
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Cake Attack posted:guys im getting the feeling this game might be poorly written Say it ain't so. Also, it's been said before by others, but I really hate dumb protagonists. Making the main character a clueless idiot is a really poor way to work-in exposition and tutorials at every turn. And its even worse when they do it in an attempt to make the protagonists relatable. Just like with the messy uniform Corbett mentioned, or the bottomless stomach Tae detailed on in the update.
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Apr 7, 2015 14:45
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Personally I still don't get why people are complaining about this game trying to reach critical mass of anime cliches. As far as I can see that's the only direction they could have taken this. Anything else would've been half assed.
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Apr 7, 2015 14:58
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BioMe posted:Personally I still don't get why people are complaining about this game trying to reach critical mass of anime cliches. As far as I can see that's the only direction they could have taken this. Anything else would've been half assed. That's the same line of lazy thinking that the writers probably took, make it extremely safe compared to VC1 or 3. There's not even big, sweeping changes that would make VC2 tonally consistent or not tiring, which are its biggest problems. A large problem of the early game is the cognitive dissonance between "plucky failure class to win respect" and "Oh poo poo, there's a civil war involving genocide." A simple rewrite of the rebel army not attacking until like a few months into Avan entering the academy would solve that, instead of rebels randomly attacking and then stopping (spoilers: The most rebel action we see this month is one side mission). The other problem is bloat on characteristics and scenes repeating over and over again. Raymond is meek, Melissa is a creepy shadow, Morris is a coward, etc. for 3-4 cutscenes in barely 2 chapters. You can have one-note gimmicks and do it well, this is the opposite and beating you in the head over it too fast. And that's not even the problem of gimmicks, is that some characters have too many gimmicks each. Dumb, hick protagonists aren't bad, especially in a setting when you need someone too dumb to challenge Class A with a bunch of rejects. It's adding on a hungry gimmick, a big brother gimmick, and a bad cook gimmick. And then repeating cutscenes about it in the almost exact same fashion again and again and again. There was potential there, just like anything, with a couple changes to give a little leeway before it hits "Peek anime" or whatever. You can hit peek anime all you want as long as you're tonally consistent.
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Apr 7, 2015 16:48
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Tae posted:There was potential there, just like anything, with a couple changes to give a little leeway before it hits "Peek anime" or whatever. You can hit peek anime all you want as long as you're tonally consistent. See Persona 4, which is one of the most anime animes that ever animed and it also happens to be really well written. It's not the clichés, is that it does nothing interesting with them. It's just a collection of random elements with little life of their own, a Frankenstein's monster of pieces badly reanimated by dark  forces.
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Apr 7, 2015 17:45
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What I am saying is that this game's entertainment value comes from how riffable it is. Tonal consistency (or the quality of writing for the most part, really) isn't very high on the list of concerns here. Not that I agree VC1 or VC3 were tonally consistent either. VC1 had bad anime writers trying to tell a serious story, which just ended up being neither good or bad enough to be entertaining. This one has bad anime writers running amok, we are here to watch the train wreck. I also found VC3 was entertaining for the exact same reasons this game is, except it chose a more inspired (and even more tonally inconsistent) premise. Still it's mostly putting the plots of VC1 and VC3 on a pedestal that confuses me when this argument comes up. None of these games are well written.
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Apr 7, 2015 17:51
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BioMe posted:I also found VC3 was entertaining for the exact same reasons this game is, except it chose a more inspired (and even more tonally inconsistent) premise. Still it's mostly putting the plot of VC1 and VC3 on a pedestal that confuses me when this argument comes up. None of these games are well written. VC1 (and, I presume, 3) both at least managed to get the tone right for the most part with how big and serious the war was, and the more atonal anime bits were generally during isolated downtime events. VC2 goes right off the rails from the word go, which was a real disappointment for everyone fresh off the first game.
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Apr 7, 2015 17:55
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vc2 isn't even funny bad though, it's just a low whirring persistent hum of bad, like the air conditioner at a cheap motel "so bad it's good" is an overrated phenomenon and i'm far more interested in vc1 which even if perhaps not well executed at least obviously had people who cared making it.
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Apr 7, 2015 17:58
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VC1 and VC3 had a very simple thing that VC2 failed to do, which was escalation of threat. You are at near the start of the war in VC1 and VC3, you are in the middle of one in VC2, yet treated like the Rebels just started up instead of having been a constant threat in-game, with even less military might than before.
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Apr 7, 2015 17:58
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I guess it makes more sense if you took the first game seriously then.
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Apr 7, 2015 18:04
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VC1 was pretty lighthearted for a WWII story, but I don't think it was significantly sillier than other "anime goes to war" type franchises like Fire Emblem. The tone was definitely never outright farcical, a goal that this game unfortunately seems to have made a beeline for. It's sad because in the right hands, there's some interesting things that can be done by mixing genre schlock and more serious depictions of WWII, Inglorious Basterds came out around the time of VC1 and managed it masterfully. King of Bleh fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Apr 7, 2015 |
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Apr 7, 2015 19:26
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Make no mistake, the real reason why I hate VC2 is because of the mechanical changes. Regardless of all the stuff about story and tone, loving grinding material just to make a goddamn gun, having promotional items be based on random MVP and being random itself, a class being useless 90% of the time in Engineers, and Orders essentially not existing because they are over-costed with a super small max deployment limit is why this game is the worst in the franchise.
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Apr 7, 2015 19:30
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Tae posted:Make no mistake, the real reason why I hate VC2 is because of the mechanical changes. Regardless of all the stuff about story and tone, loving grinding material just to make a goddamn gun, having promotional items be based on random MVP and being random itself, a class being useless 90% of the time in Engineers, and Orders essentially not existing because they are over-costed with a super small max deployment limit is why this game is the worst in the franchise. They really overcompensated for orders being broken in the first.
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Apr 7, 2015 19:38
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King of Bleh posted:VC1 was pretty lighthearted for a WWII story, but I don't think it was significantly sillier than other "anime goes to war" type franchises like Fire Emblem. The tone was definitely never outright farcical, a goal that this game unfortunately seems to have made a beeline for. So should it be an gritty HBO series? Raita could probably push the envelope if he wanted to. Or we can have it like those gritty police academy series that have thigns like sneaking out to get drunk, high and get out the frustrations of a military academy life as well as truly hardass commanders. gyrobot fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Apr 7, 2015 |
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Apr 7, 2015 19:56
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Should have made the Drill Instructor the main character; game is about whipping Worthless Teenage Anime Losers into fighting shape
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Apr 7, 2015 20:19
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Monkey Fracas posted:Should have made the Drill Instructor the main character; game is about whipping Worthless Teenage Anime Losers into fighting shape I was going to write my own idea of how this could've been done better, but this is probably the best option. Play as the guy outside the stupid high school anime stuff, as the dude (or dudette) who knows where these happy, bouncy little shits are going and that it's going to give them a thousand yard stare and persistent mental trauma, and that it's your job to break them out of beach episodes and character gimmicks so they don't all die in a ditch the next time a superpower invades your Not-Switzerland. The other really big thing they could've done with Avan is make him uneducated, not stupid. Just because he's from a backwater and never had much access to education wouldn't necessarily mean he'd be the kind of guy who wouldn't thrive if put into an academy. Make that the dude's hidden potential: That he's a bright guy who just never had the occasion to do much learning before and now picks up on expository details and things quickly and shows real potential as an officer candidate despite the snobbish disdain of the upper classes for a farmer's son. Him needing to 'catch up' would still let him exposit some, but a curious new student would feel a lot less hackneyed than a dumb oaf. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Apr 7, 2015 |
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Apr 7, 2015 21:07
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Tae posted:Lancer Uniforms I suppose, in a certain way, I have to admire the sheer balls and/or critical lack of self-awareness it takes to design absolute territory into the bomb-proof armor, and then put in a caption about how important it was to add extra armor to the shins.
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Apr 7, 2015 22:42
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Nick Buntline posted:I suppose, in a certain way, I have to admire the sheer balls and/or critical lack of self-awareness it takes to design absolute territory into the bomb-proof armor, and then put in a caption about how important it was to add extra armor to the shins. The general theory is if it hits the vitals you are dead anywat. At least if shrapnel hits your limbs you are not going to end up crippled in combat.
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Apr 7, 2015 22:50
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gyrobot posted:The general theory is if it hits the vitals you are dead anywat. At least if shrapnel hits your limbs you are not going to end up crippled in combat. A blast armored soldier dies because a low velocity shrapnel hits the femoral artery? Nothing could have prevented this tragedy. Now put her shins in a box and send her back home. (You don't mean like "the general theory in real life", right?  )
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Apr 7, 2015 23:24
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You'd think Galia must have some backwards laws that forbid women from wearing pants.
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Apr 7, 2015 23:36
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Internet Kraken posted:You'd think Galia must have some backwards laws that forbid women from wearing pants.
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Apr 7, 2015 23:55
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What, you want your soldiers looking like this? That's bad for morale, son. Gotta have that absolute territory.
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Apr 7, 2015 23:56
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There are female Galian soldiers who wear pants in VC1 and VC3 though. Jane is one of them iirc.
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Apr 8, 2015 00:24
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BioMe posted:A blast armored soldier dies because a low velocity shrapnel hits the femoral artery? Nothing could have prevented this tragedy. Now put her shins in a box and send her back home. Well with enough ragnaid you can prevent a fuckup aside from critical wounds. Another reason why the Militia isnt allowed to get involved is because Cordelia has to deal with an already hostile nobility who would see them being mobilized to crush a revolt as an heavy handed move and go and join the revolt. She had to placate the nobles to at least grudgingly accept her. gyrobot fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Apr 8, 2015 |
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Apr 8, 2015 01:44
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Nicol Quest 1   Ngwaugh?!  Oof... Oh, hey, Nichol. I'm real sorry about that! Are you okay, man? ...Yes, I'm fine. I wasn't paying attention at all. Did I hurt you? No, I'm all right. You seem down, man. Are you getting enough to eat? You need some protein! Protein. I see. I'll remember that. Gah, this conversation is totally stilted. Uhh, so yeah! Your sister is in our class too, right? What's that like? Are you glad to know somebody's got your back? Something...like that. Nicohl! *runs up to them* So this is where you've been. Just shooting the breeze, were you? Franca... I said to hurry back to class, didn't I? Why can't you ever follow through? I'm sorry.... You've always been this way. No matter what I ask, you can't get it done. At this rate, you'll be a useless man all your life. You should be ashamed. Whoa, Franco! That's going a little far, isn't it? I was the one who stopped Nichol. Don't heap it all on him, okay? It's a fine nuisance when you put on your chair act and meddle with a family. Chair act? Hey, I'm trying as hard as I-- Avan, Please. It's fine. But she's not-- Nichol, get a move on. And stop shuffling your feet when you walk! *leaves* If you'll excuse us....*leaves* Those two are siblings? They're dead opposites. I don't know how he puts up with that harpy. I'd have hung myself by now. Yeesh, I'm lucky to have had Leon as a brother.I think Franca might have some issues, but who knows. Maybe Nichol is some super secret abusive person that has to be kept in line???    Mm? Hello, Lotte. Is something wrong? I dropped my lucky pen the other day during an interview. Well, I found it... But, dude! It's frozen under like a foot of ice! Why not just break the ice? I tried, but it's way too thick to set through. Ugh, guess I'll have to come back in the spri-- *Ice shatters*  B-B-Barehanded! Wow, you've got a pretty small frame, but I guess you're still hardcore! Heh, I'm glad to help. I'll see you later. *leaves* Wow, Alexis... I think I just became a fan!There's snow? The gently caress? I mean they're near a mountain, but to be that co-ah gently caress it  Hey look, actual missions. Don't worry about what Hubert is saying, he's just telling you the minimum missions amount needed to progress to the story. You can also flip between months for free mission if a particular one is better for grinding.  This is a simple mission, just kill everything and learn to use the APC.  The map starts off with 2 Scouts and an APC, with more to come once we pass the halfway mark.  I'm currently targeting Cosette for Carry, which is a free action like climbing ladders. The APC is essentially portable base for deployment, though the limit is 2 for this vehicle.  Scouts and APC turrets are probably the weakest pellets in the game, but they're still doing a decent dent on the APC. They are not invincible like tanks against bullets. Also, watch out for that mine in front of the enemy APC.  That goes the same for the enemy as well. 20 hits overkill when I'm not even hitting the blue spot.  The rest of the enemies appear on the left, with another APC to destroy.  Remember that you can also use the Carry function in Command mode, though the range is shorter than a base's aura.  You can see the benefit of an APC here, allowing Avan and Cosette to save CP and AP fatigue by traveling with Lavinia.  And that's about it. Here's a picture of Cosette shooting someone.  Another 1 turn mission. Small note, Lavinia obviously doesn't get promotional marks because she's a tank pilot.  Eh, one more for today.   Mind sharing what you bought? "At Yearning's End." "A Forest of Pining" and "Love At War." W-Wow. those all sound like... like romance novels or something. So they are. From three authors popular among female readers today. Claudine Gide, Manoel Ronnins, and the rising star on the scene, Nadine. Seriously? Wow, I just assumed they'd be academic works. Non-fiction... l can understand any scholarly dissertation after only one reading.  Multiple readings offered no insights, so I'm making a formal study of it. I... I see. Well. good luck with that. Thank you. Good day, Zeri. *leaves* Who didn't see this coming. Let's meet Class G: Nichol Martin   Nichol is a bit of an oddball when comparing his stats to what his story is. Story-wise, he's going to be held up as some sort of super sniper that matches legends, but he's kinda low on the accuracy side. Off our current scouts, only Helmut has a lower Shoot rating while the 3 female Scouts have 20+. He also has the 2nd highest HP of the natural Scouts, 2nd again to Helmut. You're going to find this a constant, because there seems to be a universal trend that Females have better Shoot/lower HP while Males are vice versa. Personal Potentials: Night Vision: Accuracy unaffected by night status Indecisive: Too many enemies around lowers accuracy Frail Body: At half AP or lower, defense is lowered 
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Apr 8, 2015 04:51
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Hey guys did you know Class G is the worst? I hear Class G is the worst. Apparently, this group, which is called Class G, is not very good. Seems kinda rear end-backwards to admit students to your officer school just to declare some of them failures before they even begin, and then stick them with what you consider to be the shittiest among their peers.
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Apr 8, 2015 05:48
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Well, they have to be consistent with the Gallian Army as depicted in VC 1 and 3. Besides, if your best cadets trained against each other you'd be putting your best talent in harm's way. Best to keep some living target dummies around for them to style on.
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Apr 8, 2015 06:13
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Watch as it suddenly turns out to be some Railgun thing, where they're not the worst, they just have latent powers that are not prevalent (because the protagonist is there see)
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Apr 8, 2015 06:42
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SSNeoman posted:Watch as it suddenly turns out to be some Railgun thing, where they're not the worst, they just have latent powers that are not prevalent (because the protagonist is there see) Yes, the Power of Friendship. I mean, obviously. Ragtag band of underdogs comes together through the motivational speeches of the idiot (while Zeri helps them actually win). Also, the idea is less that they suck at shooting stuff and more that they all have bad personalities. Clarste fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Apr 8, 2015 |
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Apr 8, 2015 07:41
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SSNeoman posted:Watch as it suddenly turns out to be some Railgun thing, where they're not the worst, they just have latent powers that are not prevalent (because the protagonist is there see) When your cast makes that of Index/Railgun look competent...
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Apr 8, 2015 08:16
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Ardeem posted:When your cast makes that of Index/Railgun look competent... Whoah, let's not say things we wanna take back later. Though I will admit I'm waiting for when Avan will have some :masterstroke: of a plan and earns everyone's respect. Index did this all the loving time, the protag was incompetent and poo poo on by the world. The suddenly come battle time and he was an extremely calculating and experienced fighter who knew how to effectively void others' powers and cripple them before punching them in the face. I dunno how well that ended up for him, I stopped reading it about a quarter of the way in. Index isn't very good despite the face punching. VC1 sorta did this with Welkin's knowledge of nature, but it felt way less contrived cause he was the son of a famous general and was a smart person in his own right. I'm not against the trope, but you should at least be creative with it.
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Apr 8, 2015 08:38
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SSNeoman posted:Whoah, let's not say things we wanna take back later. Though I will admit I'm waiting for when Avan will have some :masterstroke: of a plan and earns everyone's respect. Index did this all the loving time, the protag was incompetent and poo poo on by the world. The suddenly come battle time and he was an extremely calculating and experienced fighter who knew how to effectively void others' powers and cripple them before punching them in the face. Technically he does this through personal missions that you get later. Everyone in Class G has a chip up their shoulder. Completing them eliminate their negative potentials for positive ones. Ani's issue is that while she can sing (Unlike Edy who's voice can be used as psychological warfare), she has next to no stamina. gyrobot fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Apr 8, 2015 |
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Apr 8, 2015 08:49
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Francis posted:Well, they have to be consistent with the Gallian Army as depicted in VC 1 and 3. It's a military school where the students are expected to fight genocidal insurgents in their first month. Everyone is harms way all the time.
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Apr 8, 2015 09:21
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I really like the first Valkyria Chronicles. Shame to see the sequel is exactly the paint-by-numbers school-anime-drivel as I anticipated it would be; it's a real shame because I really like Weird War 2. This is from a couple updates back, but: yes we get it the bad guys are literal nazis you don't need to have a Pzkw IV Ausf. G drive through a town as people in silly hats attempt to ethnically cleanse a country Wales Grey fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Apr 8, 2015 |
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Apr 8, 2015 10:50
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On that note - does anyone have a link to... err, some fairly clever sounding article about how games and anime reflect Japan's relationship with WWII? I know it popped up in a few recent LP's / discussions in games, and it had the distinction of not jumping straight into A-bomb talk, but I can't remember anything else offhand.David Corbett posted:He broke a foot of ice with his bare hands? Xander77 fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Apr 8, 2015 |
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Apr 8, 2015 12:24
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He broke a foot of ice with his bare hands? Really? As a general rule, a foot of clear ice is good to hold something like eight tonnes.
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Apr 8, 2015 12:57
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