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Changing the lunch options isn't the problem. The problem is the game's core competitive-playing audience doesn't consist of what most of us would consider "normal people." The ratio of normal people to shut-ins who get legitimately angry over card evaluation is just too high.
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Apr 8, 2015 19:10
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Failboattootoot posted:Lol isn't much better. 2 hosts (1 for EU, 1 for Korea) and 1 caster for China. Speaking of LoL, and as it turns out also Magic, both games have made a concerted effort for broader artistic representation and I would be really curious if that is bringing in more women for either game. I don't keep up with League but when I last checked on it, its female characters were pretty terrible. Not that Dota is hugely better, but at least it has female characters other than Scantily Clad Woman #589.
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Apr 8, 2015 19:13
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Angry Grimace posted:Changing the lunch options isn't the problem. The problem is the game's core competitive-playing audience doesn't consist of what most of us would consider "normal people." The ratio of normal people to shut-ins who get legitimately angry over card evaluation is just too high. Agree with this.
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Apr 8, 2015 19:13
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Serperoth posted:I don't keep up with League but when I last checked on it, its female characters were pretty terrible. Not that Dota is hugely better, but at least it has female characters other than Scantily Clad Woman #589. LoL does tend towards Kate Beaton-style "Sexism is Dead" outfits/poses for a lot of its female characters. Around the time I stopped playing as much (unrelated reasons) they were just going through a phase where a lot of loading screen splash art was being redrawn to make it more xxxtreme or some poo poo, and part of the effect of it was to turn some halfway decent female character art into tits-and-rear end-thrust-out contortions. Or just make the horrible poo poo more obvious. I mean, it made all the affected characters look dumber IMO but it made the women look dumber in a sexist way.
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Apr 8, 2015 19:16
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Angry Grimace posted:Changing the lunch options isn't the problem. The problem is the game's core competitive-playing audience doesn't consist of what most of us would consider "normal people." The ratio of normal people to shut-ins who get legitimately angry over card evaluation is just too high. You could always play x wangs or other chill tournament games that facilitate geeky dad types. Magic is actually doing us a favor, here.
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Apr 8, 2015 19:17
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remigious posted:I just wanted to chime in as a lady magic player that used to work in a game store and ran tournaments and stuff. The biggest barrier by far that keeps women out of the game is the attitude many (not all, mind you, but many) guys have towards women in a tournament. I didn't really encounter the leering pervy types as much as one might think, the problem is that men HATE losing to a girl. I ran a fun minotaur deck that kicked rear end a while back and and became known as "queen of the cows" henceforth at out standard tournaments. Real nice. They get so loving salty and disrespectful that myself and a few other ladies I know would rather just not deal with them. Which is bullshit. I think seriously the answer is punishment that is harsh and unwavering. The first person to say something like that should be DQ'D from whatever event and/or banned from the shop for a week or so. 2nd offense is worse. Once a few people are punished and it is clear that it is for sexist bullshit, at least people will keep it inside their stupid loving skulls, or they won't be around. The problem is to many stores afraid to remove a person because people often game in cliques. Removing a person generally removes 3-6 or even more. Of course, if a store was known as a place where women won't face typical bullshit, they could gain customers but small businesses are as short sighted as giant corporations.
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Apr 8, 2015 19:18
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JerryLee posted:LoL does tend towards Kate Beaton-style "Sexism is Dead" outfits/poses for a lot of its female characters. Around the time I stopped playing as much (unrelated reasons) they were just going through a phase where a lot of loading screen splash art was being redrawn to make it more xxxtreme or some poo poo, and part of the effect of it was to turn some halfway decent female character art into tits-and-rear end-thrust-out contortions. Or just make the horrible poo poo more obvious. I mean, it made all the affected characters look dumber IMO but it made the women look dumber in a sexist way. I like how Blizzard gets credit for having the big Russian lady in Overwatch and Sgt. Hammer in HotS but for every one of those there's still three rail-thin elf wizards with their bellybuttons out standing as if they'd never heard of straightened hips.
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Apr 8, 2015 19:19
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Serperoth posted:I don't keep up with League but when I last checked on it, its female characters were pretty terrible. I thought this was about power level rather than aesthetic design at first. 
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Apr 8, 2015 19:19
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Serperoth posted:I don't keep up with League but when I last checked on it, its female characters were pretty terrible. Not that Dota is hugely better, but at least it has female characters other than Scantily Clad Woman #589. Their last few champions and skins are pretty solid. They'll still toss out the odd T&A thing here or there but the ratio is significantly better from 2013 on. Edit: ^^^^^ from a power level perspective the women champions are fairly well-represented! I've been thinking about playing magic online, anyone got a good guide for playing magic online without spending all of my money? Failboattootoot fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Apr 8, 2015 |
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Apr 8, 2015 19:22
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I had a brief foray into LoL a while back, and looking at the catalog of female characters is loving embarrassing. I know it is just the standard to have scantily clad lady characters, but it seemed really excessive. I do still play Heroes of the Storm, though. It's not as bad. I think Valla looks pretty badass  To bring the discussion back to Magic, I am really loving impressed with the strides that WotC is taking to better represent female characters. It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. remigious fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Apr 8, 2015 |
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Apr 8, 2015 19:28
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jassi007 posted:I think seriously the answer is punishment that is harsh and unwavering. The first person to say something like that should be DQ'D from whatever event and/or banned from the shop for a week or so. 2nd offense is worse. Once a few people are punished and it is clear that it is for sexist bullshit, at least people will keep it inside their stupid loving skulls, or they won't be around. I think this is probably the closest to the mark. Way too many game stores are run by people who's primary business ethos is to be as apathetic as humanly possible about any and all things as long as people are coughing up entry fees and buying packs. There's a really unfortunate lack of appreciation for the simple concept of having a welcoming atmosphere and healthy player base; Something you could accomplish by just giving a poo poo and by not being afraid to put your foot down.
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Apr 8, 2015 19:35
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Failboattootoot posted:I've been thinking about playing magic online, anyone got a good guide for playing magic online without spending all of my money?
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Apr 8, 2015 19:38
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Gumdrop Larry posted:I think this is probably the closest to the mark. Way too many game stores are run by people who's primary business ethos is to be as apathetic as humanly possible about any and all things as long as people are coughing up entry fees and buying packs. There's a really unfortunate lack of appreciation for the simple concept of having a welcoming atmosphere and healthy player base; Something you could accomplish by just giving a poo poo and by not being afraid to put your foot down. I agree as well. We had a huge problem with a group of WoW TCG players, they were obnoxious as poo poo and smelled like bad cheese. The owner and I talked at length about how to handle them, and sadly we let them stay because they forked over so much money they alone justified keeping the WoW TCG in stock. In retrospect we should have just kicked them out  It is difficult in practice to kick out a regular customer, but it would have been better in the long run.
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Apr 8, 2015 19:40
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remigious posted:I agree as well. We had a huge problem with a group of WoW TCG players, they were obnoxious as poo poo and smelled like bad cheese. The owner and I talked at length about how to handle them, and sadly we let them stay because they forked over so much money they alone justified keeping the WoW TCG in stock. In retrospect we should have just kicked them out I find most businesses have a real hard time telling a bad customer to GTFO. It isn't just game stores. I applaud the poo poo out of businesses who will do it. Ever hear of the Alamo Drafthouse? Its a movie chain that has recognition because they don't put up with lovely distracting guests in theaters. Can't put your phone on silent/away? Can't shut your loving cake hole? get out. Then they put funny ranting voicemails on youtube of customers who complain about being kicked out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L3eeC2lJZs My store has the same problem. One of my friends is very forward about speaking out about, well about all sorts poo poo like this. If you use racist, sexist pejoratives, etc. he will call you on it. So he said something about one of the shop regulars who said N word and such. So the store owner basically said "knock it off" so now its a game to say things like that when Derek isn't around. jassi007 fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Apr 8, 2015 |
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Apr 8, 2015 19:45
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jassi007 posted:I find most businesses have a real hard time telling a bad customer to GTFO. It isn't just game stores. I applaud the poo poo out of businesses who will do it. Ever hear of the Alamo Drafthouse? Its a movie chain that has recognition because they don't put up with lovely distracting guests in theaters. Can't put your phone on silent/away? Can't shut your loving cake hole? get out. Then they put funny ranting voicemails on youtube of customers who complain about being kicked out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L3eeC2lJZs  Thank you, sir. I imagine this is the same reaction you'll get from any magic store that dares to throw out any regulars.
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Apr 8, 2015 19:52
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Game stores are always run by game guys that had a dream is the problem. You never see a guy running a game store who'd be exactly as happy running a tire store. So right off the bat they're generally groggy and the first batch of regulars in the store are their groggy old friends hanging around in one corner playing with Fantasy armies they haven't bought a piece for since 1991, and those people are used as the baseline for what manner of behavior is appropriate to the store.
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Apr 8, 2015 19:53
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This entire discussion is why im glad my chosen LGS is run by a woman and she is our judge. She doesn't put up with poo poo and the people that go there know she knows her poo poo so they don't act like assholes. We get the occasional transfer that doesn't know how to act but he either gets the message and leaves or changes his behavior.
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Apr 8, 2015 19:59
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It's also not up to just the store owners and judges. If someone's being a poo poo, call them out, make it clear that you, as a customer/player, don't like that kind of stuff going on. It helps when the judges/owners are on your side, but things won't get better in bad environments, unless non-grogs speak up. Edit: this is really uncomfortable to actually do, but I think it's pretty important in general. Trilas fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Apr 8, 2015 |
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Apr 8, 2015 20:05
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jassi007 posted:I think seriously the answer is punishment that is harsh and unwavering.
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Apr 8, 2015 20:15
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A good measuring stick to a good store is if kids play in there. I notice the typical community college magic dreamers hang out places don't have any kids who play.Trilas posted:It's also not up to just the store owners and judges. If someone's being a poo poo, call them out, make it clear that you, as a customer/player, don't like that kind of stuff going on. Tried it at a couple stores and the regs were bad enough that they just shrugged and well, sometimes you just have bad stores. Sucks for all the clientele.
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Apr 8, 2015 20:19
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 ~one of these things is not like the other~
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Apr 8, 2015 20:29
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Failboattootoot posted:I've been thinking about playing magic online, anyone got a good guide for playing magic online without spending all of my money? Depends entirely on what you want to do there. If you're in for casual playing without chase rares, you can get by very cheap. In general commons and uncommons are almost free and non-chase rares go for fractions of tix (tix = tickets, MTGO currency). Also, Momir Basic format. Goons who play limited should be pretty happy to offload their commons/uncommons/like to you if you just ask. If you want to play a constructed format competitively, you'll shell out maybe 50-80% of the price of a competitive paper deck (just quickly going by Standard deck prices from MTGGoldfish, average RDW looks like ~79 tix online / ~107$ paper, Abzan aggro ~237 / 392$). If you play with a winning record you can slowly win that back by selling the prize packs for tix, depending a lot though on how much the current sets given as prize packs go for. If you want to play limited, you will leak cash over long run unless you're a legit good-good limited player. In theory a draft costs 14 tix (3 packs for 4 tix each + 2 tix for entry), in reality you either provide the packs yourself or buy them from botchains in the MTGO trade and get by cheaper. DTK-DTK-FRF costs 3.21+-3.21+-3.88+2 tix right now, FRF-KTK-KTK 3.88+1.54+1.54 (shows how low value set Khans is online). If you have a winning record, raredraft the cards costing more than two or so tix to sell, and try to amass some prize packs during the better value events like Dragons releases going on right now, you can get the cost of your limited playing pretty low per draft even if you don't actually go "infinite" over long run. Never buy packs from the MTGO store, you'll get them almost certainly cheaper from reliable botchains. Never buy packs to open, just for limited. Try to find tickets for a better price somewhere else also, some bigger botchains sell them on their web pages and get them to you ingame.
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Apr 8, 2015 20:29
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Chill la Chill posted:Don't give mtgo any of your money. This should be a meme here just like don't give GW any of your money is now a meme. In fairness, I personally have no real problem with MTGO. Game works fine for me and I really enjoy being able to run up against a lot of decks that aren't in my local game store's meta. *shrug* Not to mention playing several other formats. Zoness posted:
Obvious accidental Origins spoiler
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Apr 8, 2015 20:33
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Kenji's opponent on stream just now went baby Dromoka into daddy Dromoka, threw away daddy Dromoka into four Djinn tokens, and then threw away baby Dromoka into a telegraphed Sandblast. He then topdecked Profound Journey, got both Dromokas back, and then cast Sunscorch Regent. 
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Apr 8, 2015 20:35
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Chill la Chill posted:Don't give mtgo any of your money. This should be a meme here just like don't give GW any of your money is now a meme. Man, as soon as the uber-cheap Chinese knockoff of MTGO launches, I'll be all over that poo poo. 
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Apr 8, 2015 21:03
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jassi007 posted:My store has the same problem. One of my friends is very forward about speaking out about, well about all sorts poo poo like this. If you use racist, sexist pejoratives, etc. he will call you on it. So he said something about one of the shop regulars who said N word and such. So the store owner basically said "knock it off" so now its a game to say things like that when Derek isn't around. Get involved with the Judge program, you don't have to pass any tests or need anything other than a real interest before you can start being a positive force for change in your community. "My LGS sucks" stories are weak, do a thing.
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Apr 8, 2015 21:09
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JerryLee posted:Man, as soon as the uber-cheap Chinese knockoff of MTGO launches, I'll be all over that poo poo. cockatrice is still a thing, I thought. People still love their broken software, though.
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Apr 8, 2015 21:12
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Chill la Chill posted:Don't give mtgo any of your money. This should be a meme here just like don't give GW any of your money is now a meme. I have been playing magic since Apoc and I have found Theros and Tarkir to be about as boring in limited as DGM. The fact that people feel that unflinching courage is amazing just sickens me because it is just a strictly worse Armadillo Cloak and MaRo himself tried to defend it by stating how the original version was too powerful. Many of my friends quit magic in Theros and I quit Magic in BNG. I now only try out prereleases if I find them interesting. MaRo only seems to cater to new players and seems to feel that the veterans are only a small percentage and should simply move with the times. However these players have been faithful and have continued to support wizards. What he doesn't realise is that new players don't enter magic because it's interesting, they enter to play with their friends who are already playing magic. If you continue to exclude the veterans and reduce power level, eventually the number of players leaving will be greater than the number entering. I feel that wizards doesn't trust it's customers, they don't share their poll data with us and the way they handled YMTC proves that they feel no guilt about loving over the player base. Due to their own manipulations of the polls and choosing which designs they liked the best we were left with another bin rare. Gone are the days where you could finish two rounds by an hour and sit outside enjoying the cool breeze while chatting to your opponent. Players don't communicate with each other and or jest. I used to enjoy playing because I would meet new people to have a laugh and we'd all go to the pub to have fun afterwards. Much of that camaraderie is lost now and it saddens me. Magic was made by Richard Garfield to have fun with his university friends many years ago. Wizards turned it into a business which is fine and understandable. Mark Rosewater came and turned it into a parasite where children don't have enough money to go bowling or take girls on dates cause they spend $50 on a single land so they can keep up with their friends decks. This entire change reminds me of Warhammer 40k and why I left warhammer. The only difference is that rather than new units/cards being stronger they are weaker and less interesting. The storylines are cheaper and the level of depth shallow. Original Ravnica had many untold stories to tell but instead they make up a maze and bring in Jace to weave this terrible tale. Theros was just the TV tropes of Greek myth from poo poo films like the remake of Clash of the Titans and the Lightning Thief. No knowledge of Odyesees or original Greek Myth were used in Theros's design. The use of God as a creature type was silly when they used it on female gods. A better type would have been Deity since that is not gender specific. Tarkir ruined legacy history by ignoring the rules of time travel, elder status and the base colour of wedges. Clearly Mark Rosewater cares not for what Magic once stood for and only to sell packs to the new and unknowing players who are unaware of the grandeur of Magic's past. This is why modern/legacy is more expensive to enter every year. Not because cards are disappearing but because players peak over the wall of limited filler at the past treasures and wish to obtain what treasures magic had once made. With numbers dwindling, the resources to make funner decks become limited and players are left penniless staring at cardboard that is worth more than food that could save a dying village in Africa.
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Apr 8, 2015 21:16
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Lottery of Babylon posted:I have been playing magic since Apoc and I have found Theros and Tarkir to be about as boring in limited as DGM. The fact that people feel that unflinching courage is amazing just sickens me because it is just a strictly worse Armadillo Cloak and MaRo himself tried to defend it by stating how the original version was too powerful. lol
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Apr 8, 2015 21:21
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Lottery of Babylon posted:I have been playing magic since Apoc and I have found Theros and Tarkir to be about as boring in limited as DGM. The fact that people feel that unflinching courage is amazing just sickens me because it is just a strictly worse Armadillo Cloak and MaRo himself tried to defend it by stating how the original version was too powerful. source your quotes
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Apr 8, 2015 21:24
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That's a quote for grognards.txt.
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Apr 8, 2015 21:25
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TheKingofSprings posted:source your quotes  Ramos posted:That's a quote for grognards.txt. Oh, that's back again? Cool.
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Apr 8, 2015 21:28
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Lottery of Babylon posted:
Might be a good idea to quote quotes for future reference. Also, wow, that guy is trying his hardest to seduce me.
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Apr 8, 2015 21:29
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Lottery of Babylon posted:I have been playing magic since Apoc and I have found Theros and Tarkir to be about as boring in limited as DGM. The fact that people feel that unflinching courage is amazing just sickens me because it is just a strictly worse Armadillo Cloak and MaRo himself tried to defend it by stating how the original version was too powerful. this but unironically
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Apr 8, 2015 21:45
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Ramos posted:Might be a good idea to quote quotes for future reference. Also, wow, that guy is trying his hardest to seduce me. Well, now that he's not paying $50 for lands anymore, he can finally afford to take you out bowling.
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Apr 8, 2015 21:47
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I used to be able to make friends playing an unpopular game in high school. Now that the game is radically more popular, I can't. This is the game's fault and not mine, because of the
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Apr 8, 2015 21:54
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I take dates to magic shops and instead of buying food we buy
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Apr 8, 2015 21:57
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oh i read it and just hte maro bits are right
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Apr 8, 2015 22:01
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black potus posted:oh i read it and just hte maro bits are right yeah this
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Apr 8, 2015 22:05
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black potus posted:oh i read it and just hte maro bits are right excessive maro hate is stupid because it's not like he's not executing on a vision of mtg shared by all of his coworkers and explicitly mandated by his superiors. in the absence of maro it would just be gottlieb's or nagle's fault. maro is just a public face. maro is an apologist for the worst parts of modern magic design but he also designed hybrid mana, split cards and Time Spiral block. edit seriously he's easy to hate because he's a total goon who writes dumb apologia for avacyn restored, but he lead designed tempest. he's been responsible for as much of the stuff you love as stuff you hate
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