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mlmp08 posted:I really wish the United States military put more fanfare behind remembering arguably the most important victory ever achieved in US history. We're way too wrapped up in false WW2 narratives and Greatest Generation and Just War and whatnot to care about these things. Here's another WWII video game: Also, 150 years ago, right about now, Lee is reading the terms of the surrender. Colonel Charles Marshall, Lee's primary aide-de-camp and uncle to the future Chief of Staff, is riding around Appomattox looking for a suitable building to conduct the negotiations.
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Apr 9, 2015 18:35
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I'm down with Bewbies positng the surrender stuff bit by bit every hour if he can. Interesting stuff.
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Apr 9, 2015 18:40
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SeanBeansShako posted:I'm down with Bewbies positng the surrender stuff bit by bit every hour if he can. Interesting stuff. Hegel's gonna do 400 Years Ago starting next May, right? 
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Apr 9, 2015 18:49
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SeanBeansShako posted:I'm down with Bewbies positng the surrender stuff bit by bit every hour if he can. Interesting stuff. http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/appomatx.htm
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Apr 9, 2015 18:52
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vintagepurple posted:I was born in Texas and while I'm a pro-union nerd (I own a reenactment uniform and kept a running 150th anniversary commentary of battles on facebook) and not a neoconfederate or anything, it does get kind of tiresome being told the whole south is trash forever by people on the internet. I'm glad it doesn't happen in real life. I find that it's not that hard to be super loving pumped that the dead loving wrong side lost the civil war without being a total poo poo toward southerners today.
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Apr 9, 2015 18:52
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Nenonen posted:Have some gifts from war buddies to another. Nenonen was also given a a fireplace poker by his soldiers. In his thank-you letter to his troops he said that he will use it to direct fire in his home. This artefact can be seen in the Artillery, Engineer and Signals Museum in Hämeenlinna.
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Apr 9, 2015 18:54
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The NPS requested that bells across the country be rung today in commemoration of the surrender. I'm disappointed but not surprised that I haven't heard any in Oklahoma. I imagine the sesquicentennial has been a much bigger deal east of the Mississippi.
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Apr 9, 2015 18:58
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SeanBeansShako posted:I'm down with Bewbies positng the surrender stuff bit by bit every hour if he can. Interesting stuff. Unforunately I cannot as I have a stupid meeting for idiots but I do suggest everybody watch this as it is about the best media on the subject I'm aware of.
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Apr 9, 2015 18:59
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I forgot to add how weird Texas' relationship with Juneteenth is and how they celebrate it, but it's a commemoration of the time the Union finally forced them to release slaves well after they should have.
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Apr 9, 2015 19:28
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mlmp08 posted:I find that it's not that hard to be super loving pumped that the dead loving wrong side lost the civil war without being a total poo poo toward southerners today. It's less "being a total poo poo toward Southerners" and more "certain emotionally-invested, screechingly vocal, incredibly sensitive Southerners can get very whiny about the subject and often purport to speak for all people of the South." If someone feels a positive connection to a culture predicated from the bedrock to the rafters on the existence of slavery as the main part of a social, religious, and economic identity then perhaps it is not the person celebrating the defeat and subjugation of that barbarism who is the one being a total poo poo. That's no license to just be like "gently caress you for being born in South Carolina" but it's sure as hell "gently caress you for thinking there was any form of justice or morality in the rebel cause or on part of its champions." You know what Lee was doing up in Pennsylvania before being defeated at Gettysburg? He was capturing free, non-combatant black Northerners and sending them South in chains. He should have been shot in front of that courthouse and dumped in the nearest cistern and I'm glad his estate was turned into a national cemetery.
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Apr 9, 2015 19:38
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FAUXTON posted:It's less "being a total poo poo toward Southerners" and more "certain emotionally-invested, screechingly vocal, incredibly sensitive Southerners can get very whiny about the subject and often purport to speak for all people of the South." If someone feels a positive connection to a culture predicated from the bedrock to the rafters on the existence of slavery as the main part of a social, religious, and economic identity then perhaps it is not the person celebrating the defeat and subjugation of that barbarism who is the one being a total poo poo. That's no license to just be like "gently caress you for being born in South Carolina" but it's sure as hell "gently caress you for thinking there was any form of justice or morality in the rebel cause or on part of its champions." Trying to figure out who you are arguing with.
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Apr 9, 2015 19:40
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mlmp08 posted:Trying to figure out who you are arguing with. I don't think it's you, I'm definitely in agreement with you regarding it being easy not to have animosity towards someone just for being down there, but I find fewer people personally act like assholes towards Southerners than is normally believed, mainly because the voices taking umbrage upon hearing "yeah, gently caress slavery, gently caress the confederacy, america hell yeah" are very loud about it.
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Apr 9, 2015 19:55
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StashAugustine posted:Hegel's gonna do 400 Years Ago starting next May, right?
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Apr 9, 2015 20:41
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Hogge Wild posted:Nenonen was also given a a fireplace poker by his soldiers. In his thank-you letter to his troops he said that he will use it to direct fire in his home. This artefact can be seen in the Artillery, Engineer and Signals Museum in Hämeenlinna. There should be a holiday dedicated to this quip.
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Apr 9, 2015 20:53
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100 Years Ago Scrapping and clawing for every inch, the French succeed in pushing the Germans off Les Eparges, which they've been trying to do for nearly six months. They now pause to reorganise themselves. Indian Expeditionary Force "D" has a new commander, and Sir Ian Hamilton's diary reaches a whole new stage of emo as he digests the suggestion from General Hunter-Weston suggests that maybe they should just jack it in and go home.
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Apr 9, 2015 21:01
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Nenonen posted:The presents given to Finnish generals by their troops were usually a lot less luxurious but more useful than Führer's portrait. Finnish soldiers had a lot of time and tons of wood to carve during the trench war phase, and some generals received entire log cottages. This workbench handed to general Nenonen by his artillerymen is simpler That is some quality work.
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Apr 9, 2015 21:43
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FAUXTON posted:I don't think it's you, I'm definitely in agreement with you regarding it being easy not to have animosity towards someone just for being down there, but I find fewer people personally act like assholes towards Southerners than is normally believed, mainly because the voices taking umbrage upon hearing "yeah, gently caress slavery, gently caress the confederacy, america hell yeah" are very loud about it. As a southerner born and lived most of my life, I honestly don't care if people lambast these here "Real 'murricans". I tend to stick to the cities and college towns anyways, which are by no means bright liberal lights shining in the darkness, but still considerably better than anywhere in rural bumblefuck South Carolina. Hell I'm from here and I still don't know what the "Culture not pride" garbage is about, the south is almost entirely bereft of anything resembling culture, unless the weekly arguments on who has the most trailer trash relatives counts somehow. But I guess there is no arguing with a people proud that they lost a war. It's embarrassing really.
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Apr 9, 2015 22:26
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Rhymenoserous posted:Hell I'm from here and I still don't know what the "Culture not pride" garbage is about, the south is almost entirely bereft of anything resembling culture, unless the weekly arguments on who has the most trailer trash relatives counts somehow. Well, that's the fault of all dem drat carpetbaggers!  But that brings up a more serious question - I've often heard it said that Reconstruction went wrong somehow, but I've never been too clear on the details beyond "Something something Yankee opportunists." So what exactly did go wrong (if anything) with Reconstruction? Was there ever much chance of it going right? And do the negatives effects of Reconstruction still affect Southerners in a real and direct sense today, as I've heard it alleged?
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Apr 9, 2015 22:49
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Rhymenoserous posted:Hell I'm from here and I still don't know what the "Culture not pride" garbage is about, the south is almost entirely bereft of anything resembling culture Evidently you've never been to Charleston, or Nashville, or New Orleans, or possibly outside of your house. Tomn posted:Well, that's the fault of all dem drat carpetbaggers! Andrew Johnson went wrong with Reconstruction. You can blame him for basically rolling it back.
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Apr 9, 2015 22:55
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bewbies posted:Colonel Charles Marshall, Lee's primary aide-de-camp and uncle to the future Chief of Staff, is riding around Appomattox looking for a suitable building to conduct the negotiations. The fact that he finds it at the homestead of someone who bugged the gently caress out of living near Bull Run is one of the more  coincidences in history.
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Apr 9, 2015 23:12
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Basically the Republicans started having trouble keeping their seats in the North East, which meant support for reconstruction eroded as more Democrats took office. Eventually the Democrats resurged throughout the south , Reconstruction ended entirely before the changes it wanted to put in (most visibly enforcing voter rights for minorities and decoupling the political system from the psuedo-aristocratic plantation owners) could take root leading Jim Crow laws and slowed economic growth throughout the Southeast. THANKS JOHNSON
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Apr 9, 2015 23:13
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Agean90 posted:Basically the Republicans started having trouble keeping their seats in the North East, which meant support for reconstruction eroded as more Democrats took office. Eventually the Democrats resurged throughout the south , Reconstruction ended entirely before the changes it wanted to put in (most visibly enforcing voter rights for minorities and decoupling the political system from the psuedo-aristocratic plantation owners) could take root leading Jim Crow laws and slowed economic growth throughout the Southeast. That's a good nutshell look at it, It's really easy to blame Hayes for being the bagholder at the end but Johnson basically dropped the babby on its head on purpose as it was being formed.
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Apr 9, 2015 23:40
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Hogge Wild posted:Nenonen was also given a a fireplace poker by his soldiers. In his thank-you letter to his troops he said that he will use it to direct fire in his home. This artefact can be seen in the Artillery, Engineer and Signals Museum in Hämeenlinna. Finland, why are you so endlessly amusing? :-D DDD
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Apr 9, 2015 23:57
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John Wilkes Booth did more to destroy the South with one bullet than William Tecumseh Sherman did with an entire army.
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Apr 9, 2015 23:57
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Trin Tragula posted:100 Years Ago Speaking of Gallipoli... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmMWCHHKfX0
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Apr 10, 2015 00:10
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I find it hard to blame Johnson for the problems of Reconstruction. Emancipation tied two different conflicts together: emancipation/civil rights for blacks, and preservation of the Union. The latter was resolved militarily, but the former wasn't. Grant enforced military reconstruction for eight years as President, and props to him for keeping it going until the end, but support for civil rights was never as great as support for Union. Scandals in Grant's administration divided the Republican party, and the Panic of 1873 especially, cost Grant a lot of political capital and increased support for both the Democrats and factions of the Republican party more concerned with, say, civil service reform than with keeping an occupying army in the south. Johnson or no Johnson, Reconstruction was never going to have a happy ending. Rent-A-Cop posted:John Wilkes Booth did more to destroy the South with one bullet than William Tecumseh Sherman did with an entire army. For some reason, lots of people like to assume that Lincoln's magic touch would have made the South love blacks if he'd been president through 1868. Bullshit. I'd rate him as the best president we've had, but the man wasn't perfect. Soft reconstruction policies would have been an abandonment of the civil rights effort every bit as much as the Compromise of 1877 was. dublish fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Apr 10, 2015 |
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Apr 10, 2015 00:14
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Yeah, the issue is waaaay more complex than what I summarized (ie, the rise of the "lily white" faction the in republican party, good old fashioned graft, etc) but Johnson is easiest to blame since he
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Apr 10, 2015 00:17
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Trin Tragula posted:100 Years Ago Methinks, Sir Ian should have listened to his corps commanders. It would have spared my country the past 100 years of ludicrous patriotic flag waving over a failed landing at the bottom of a cliff.
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Apr 10, 2015 00:18
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If anyone here is into planes, here are some Soviet trials of the Ju-87. Only 4300 Euros! There are some scanned pages though. http://www.ebay.de/itm/FOTOALBUM-JU...cc#ht_788wt_720
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Apr 10, 2015 01:36
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dublish posted:Johnson or no Johnson, Reconstruction was never going to have a happy ending. Assuming it needed an ending at all. Given what happened after it ended, there's probably a good case for it to have been an indefinite occupation with military force used to ensure civil liberties and forced land/wealth redistribution. The planter social structure that was there to begin with simply used the force of wealth/poverty rather than law to keep their high horse high and eventually regained a lot of the law power they'd had in place, just under different names. It's a shame it took until WWII for the world to figure out that you do indeed need to go after the Krupps and (Alfred) Rosenbergs and (in Rosenberg's case) hang the bastards to nail the coffin fully closed.
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Apr 10, 2015 01:39
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Hogge Wild posted:Nenonen was also given a a fireplace poker by his soldiers. In his thank-you letter to his troops he said that he will use it to direct fire in his home. This artefact can be seen in the Artillery, Engineer and Signals Museum in Hämeenlinna. Haha, are the finnish terms for "artillery fire" and "flame fire" similar?
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Apr 10, 2015 01:52
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Phobophilia posted:Haha, are the finnish terms for "artillery fire" and "flame fire" similar? Yep, "tuli" means both flame fire and fire from artillery. And the artillery term forward observer (who directs the fire) is "tulenjohtaja", literally "fire-leader".
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Apr 10, 2015 03:03
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 Military History Goons, we need more players in Grey Hunter's LP We currently have a fun tactical war game going on in the let's play sub forum, run by Grey Hunter of LP fame. The scenario is a randomly generated map somewhere on the Franco-German border of WW1, in which the French and German armies are fighting for control of the map. The game is currently in 1914's maneuver stage, but will progress to 1915 soon, with a whole new set of rules! We have goons set up along a military hierarchy, in which I am the top German commander. We pass orders down the chain of command and Grey resolves our moves concurrent with the French, resolving the battle according to the Great War Spearhead tabletop game rules. They're kinda arcane and lots are lost in translation but hey, that's the fog of war! We also cannot see the French without having units near them, so each side has incomplete knowledge of the enemy's position. The reason I'm posting here is because the LP has three separate threads: One for the French, one for the Germans, and one for observers. Any who view and/or post in observer thread or French thread know about the enemy's positions and strategies, and are disqualified from joining the German side as a commander. I thus can't find any new blood from people already participating in the game - either they are already on the German side, or know the French plans to the point where joining us would be cheating. Some posters in the German thread suggested this thread might be a good recruiting spot as previous interest was expressed here. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3705107 Here is the link to the thread. We currently have the need for some new commanders, so come join us! If you're interested in joining, check out the German thread and express your interest. Just remember, do NOT check the observer thread or the allied thread - doing so will disqualify you from the game as a commander. Any French commanders, what's up! 
JosefStalinator fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Apr 10, 2015 |
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Apr 10, 2015 06:44
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JosefStalinator posted:
I'm slightly interested but if I read the german thread would I ruin my immersion if I decide not to join because of time commitments? And or I have no idea how this LP will work.
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Apr 10, 2015 07:14
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Chillyrabbit posted:I'm slightly interested but if I read the german thread would I ruin my immersion if I decide not to join because of time commitments? And or I have no idea how this LP will work. Feel free to read the German thread and you can lurk on it for a while. If you decide it's not for you you can just go check out the observer thread (it's somewhere in the LP forum, not sure what page), and you can join the peanut gallery and laugh at all my horrible tactical mistakes. Just remember that once you peep the French positions, there is no coming back. At least not without being dishonest. In terms of how the LP works, the rules used are arcane and Grey intentionally doesn't tell us all the information, because we are supposed to be learning as we go along - just like the commanders themselves in ww1. The main thing you do is check what your superior officer tells you to do, then make a post about how you want to move your dudes around. You're assigned a set of soldiers on the front, who will follow your commands. Nothing more complicated than an MSpaint with arrows/circles is needed to make clear orders.
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Apr 10, 2015 08:14
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JosefStalinator posted:
Hey, toton, glad to see you haven't run to the hills yet! If need be I can arrange for some of our staff officers to serve on a temporary exchange with your forces, it'll make your surrender run much smoother  Seriously though, I'm commanding the Allied forces and I highly recommend the LP to anyone in this thread, it's already one of the better LP's GH has done and I know that at least in our thread it's been an extremely fun and informative ride. So sign up, even if it's for the losing side! You can always switch over once we switch into 1915.
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Apr 10, 2015 08:33
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Or just come to the peanut gallery and laugh at how incredibly incompetent at least one of the people above is.
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Apr 10, 2015 08:41
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my dad posted:Or just come to the peanut gallery and laugh at how incredibly incompetent at least one of the people above is. Spoiler: it's not the Prussians e:     
Generation Internet fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Apr 10, 2015 |
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Apr 10, 2015 08:54
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Generation Internet posted:Spoiler: it's not the Prussians And here I was the whole time, thinking VI Korps was full of Bavarians.
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Apr 10, 2015 09:01
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^^^ Didn't we agree it was Alsatians? They're basically Frenchmen.my dad posted:Or just come to the peanut gallery and laugh at how incredibly incompetent at least one of the people above is. Well, uh, sup Mr. Internet. I'm not gonna lie, I kinda wish we had a common thread we could taunt each other in more regularly, but things might get salty! But seriously folks, resist the temptation to spectate and come join the rightful German cause  
JosefStalinator fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Apr 10, 2015 |
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Apr 10, 2015 09:18
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