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Magnitogorsk. posted:I don't think the "achievements with mods" mod works anymore, but you can just use SAM to give yourself the achievements you would have earned. There's too many useful mods in this game to forgo them for achievements It's been working for me.
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Apr 10, 2015 22:21
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Fish Fry Andy posted:But you don't have to have dedicated turn lanes. My original point was that you don't need to do any gamey poo poo to have smoothly flowing traffic, and the majority of the complaints that I see are the product of people trying to force the game to work the way they want, rather than playing along with the game and the simulation's rules. Dedicated turn lanes don't exist in the base game, and you also don't really need them. How are turning lanes gamey? And why , in a city simulation game, should you not be able to simulate turning lanes, which exist in cities of the world?
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Apr 10, 2015 22:22
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BallsFalls posted:He might have been visiting a shop or park across town That's another good point, why do my guys need to drive all over town to commercial when there's another commercial zone just as big right next to them? I highly doubt all my high-density stuff has unique shops
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Apr 10, 2015 22:23
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Subyng posted:How are turning lanes gamey? And why , in a city simulation game, should you not be able to simulate turning lanes, which exist in cities of the world? They're gamey because the way to implement them right now is gamey as they don't actually exist in Skylines.
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Apr 10, 2015 22:27
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Fish Fry Andy posted:They're gamey because the way to implement them right now is gamey as they don't actually exist in Skylines. I don't really see the need for them to begin with considering the cims' magical merging skills
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Apr 10, 2015 22:30
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Fish Fry Andy posted:They're gamey because the way to implement them right now is gamey as they don't actually exist in Skylines. Right , so I think KakerMix's point is that turning lanes SHOULD be a game feature rather than requiring the player to game the system
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Apr 10, 2015 22:37
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Subyng posted:Right , so I think KakerMix's point is that turning lanes SHOULD be a game feature rather than requiring the player to game the system Right but what we're saying is turning lanes and other things you can do to 'game' the traffic system into doing something you want that normally wouldn't happen (according to the game rules) isn't necessary to keep traffic flowing well. You can if you want, sure. They look pretty and have their use. But if your downtown area is gridlocked it's not because there's no turn lanes. There's nothing requiring you to have turn lanes (although again dedicated turn lanes would a great feature to add). GrossMurpel posted:That's another good point, why do my guys need to drive all over town to commercial when there's another commercial zone just as big right next to them? I highly doubt all my high-density stuff has unique shops I think that's better than the SimCity 'go to closest commercial no matter what.' What if there's a store across town that has something that he needs? I go to various commercial areas all the time irl, it's not like I only go to the closest plaza to my house. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Apr 10, 2015 |
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Apr 10, 2015 22:47
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^yes but keep in mind not everyone is playing to make a 100% optimized city. A variety of options doesn't hurt.
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Apr 10, 2015 22:59
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Of course, that's why it'd be a good idea to have turn lanes. All I'm saying is if you have traffic issues and you feel frustrated because you think the traffic sim just sucks and you need to game it to get it to work properly, you should re-examine your road network because turn lanes aren't required in this game to keep things flowing smoothly. That's all. I still want turn lanes because they're cool and useful in a lot of situations and would make it easier to manage traffic. Or post a screenshot in here, people seem to be pretty willing to help diagnose traffic issues. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Apr 10, 2015 |
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Apr 10, 2015 23:03
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Customizable turn lanes are absolutely a cool feature that should be added for customization's sake. Calling it gamey is probably a red herring because it won't actually fix many traffic issues except for some very specific cases where the default road rules in the game breakdown on the way to the features intent. Just to keep being a broken record and apologist in the thread: like if someone taking a moment to turn breaks your traffic, imagine what's going to happen when you cram everybody into the center lane.
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Apr 10, 2015 23:07
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Moridin920 posted:Right but what we're saying is turning lanes and other things you can do to 'game' the traffic system into doing something you want that normally wouldn't happen (according to the game rules) isn't necessary to keep traffic flowing well. My city is an urban hellhole, there's only high-density megamarkets. I doubt they're that different from one 10 block wide zone to the next.
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Apr 10, 2015 23:12
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What I'm having trouble with is figuring out where traffic is actually hurting my city. Right now things are humming along pretty well -- there are a few intense roads/industrial offramps I need to work on, but nothing really seems to be visibly suffering for it. Right now the only thing that really seems to be holding me back in growth is not having the patience to lay out/plop down residential zones fast enough. I'm at 30k people and I kind of already feel like I've 'beaten' the game. I've got $800k in the bank with $8k more coming in each year and all of my downtown is Level 5 Light/Heavy Residential, Level 3 Commercial, and Level 3 Industry.I kind of keep sprawling outwards to get to the next pop point, but right now I've kind of got everything my city needs so I'm not sure what else I should be planning on adding aside from "more suburbs"
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Apr 10, 2015 23:25
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I think people define "gamey" in different ways. I mean this is a game so obviously everything will be game-like. But it's a game sort of simulating a real thing: cities, and specifically traffic. When you have to do something in the game that's very counter to what you'd do in real life, or run into a huge problem because some system in the game doesn't behave how you'd expect it to behave in real life, that's when people complain about "gamey" situations. Short of being a perfect traffic simulator that needs to run on a supercomputer and can't even run in real-time it will of course never be totally realistic. It also depends on what you find fun in the game. For some people they come at this simply as a game and accept its rules, systems, and reality at face value. They view it entirely as a game like a normal person and are able to fully enjoy it as is but of course would love more features. They deal with traffic by dealing with the in-game traffic system and AI and have fun learning and mastering it. Then there's the city spergs. They want this to be simulating real life as much as possible. They want to apply real-world traffic planning and have the game's AI respond how they'd expect. They get mad when there is a traffic jam where one wouldn't exist in real life because drivers can adjust their routes in real time. They get frustrated when they don't have the tools a traffic engineer would have in real life to deal with a simple problem in the game. They hope for more realism when they see how people pick where to shop or how other systems in the game work. If they have to do anything in the game that they wouldn't do in real life they think this is "gamey". When they have to set up their infrastructure to take into account (or advantage of) the AI they think of this as "gaming the system". They want to apply actual urban planning theory or traffic engineering to a game and see how it works out, to carry out their real life city building fantasies. When the game can't simulate or respond to their unreasonable little pet wishes they get upset. "uhg, this game is behaving like a VIDEO GAME!" I'm this 2nd group 
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Apr 10, 2015 23:34
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zedprime posted:Just to keep being a broken record and apologist in the thread: like if someone taking a moment to turn breaks your traffic, imagine what's going to happen when you cram everybody into the center lane. Well, actually, it only takes a small interruption in traffic flow to propagate and completely gently caress everything up. Ever been in a situation where you're stuck in traffic, then suddenly it clears up for no discernible reason? This kind of thing happens literally because one guy decided to slam on his brakes too hard, causing a cascade of cars behind them slamming on their brakes, causing a massive pileup.
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Apr 10, 2015 23:49
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P.D.B. Fishsticks posted:I decided to try to create a 6-way turbine interchange in my city. The result was this monstrosity: I just wanted to compliment you on this
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Apr 10, 2015 23:53
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Subyng posted:Well, actually, it only takes a small interruption in traffic flow to propagate and completely gently caress everything up. Ever been in a situation where you're stuck in traffic, then suddenly it clears up for no discernible reason? This kind of thing happens literally because one guy decided to slam on his brakes too hard, causing a cascade of cars behind them slamming on their brakes, causing a massive pileup.
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Apr 10, 2015 23:55
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Well you gotta have some abstraction in a game like this and abstraction is where the inaccuracies occur. How much this game goes into detail is absolutely commendable and, honestly I thought it would be SimCity 4 pretty much forever, I honestly did not think there would ever be a game like that again. (well like that, and you know, actually good and playable) Sadly I had not a lot of time to play Cities, still some things bothered me. The two main things that bother me are a) That apparently nobody ever sat down with just a simple calculator/spreadsheet and looked if the budget numbers/expenditures/efficiency of certain buildings are in any relation with each other. Actually, it seems to me that most numbers have been picked after what "felt good" to the developers, like it is sadly so often in these games nowadays. Really feels to me like nobody ever crunched the numbers to see where they would lead the average game after a few years of gametime. (To be fair, I'm probably the only one caring about this, I loved the old school business sims and there's not really such a thing anymore and I need my fix of balancing an imaginary budget) and b) That the traffic simulator sometimes does bizarre things, especially with pedestrians - like pathing people to walk from one end to the city to the other for work. There's a lot of odd pathing decisions the game takes there sometimes, I mean there's always some deviation in what people will do for a wild plethora of reasons and maybe it was intentional that way, but if it was, it should be toned down a bit. The traffic is sometimes a bit too unpredictable. Both are relatively minor and the game is still a lot of fun, even just watching it. My two cents.
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Apr 11, 2015 00:04
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I think the inarguably largest problem with the car pathing is that they don't all accelerate at once, but only accelerate when the car in front of them is far enough ahead. This results in situations where you have a dumbass loving traffic jam where cars keep on stopping in the same spot forever.
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Apr 11, 2015 00:05
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Supraluminal posted:It irks me that some building unlocks are tied to making a lovely city. I mean I get that they may be challenging to achieve, I'm just not interested in doing them. I should just use the unlock cheat I guess. It would be interesting and a challenge if they were linked in a way that you had to make a city take a nosedive into disease, crime, unemployment and then turn it around into a thriving utopia, but as it stands there's nothing fun about making a crap city with problems which you then delete.
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Apr 11, 2015 00:19
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The achievements enable with mods mod definitely does work, also in the latest patch. I got one on Steam just now while playing, with mods. Also, the 50% crime rate unlockable is almost impossible? I couldn't manage to get it above 25%.
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Apr 11, 2015 00:31
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Fish Fry Andy posted:I think the inarguably largest problem with the car pathing is that they don't all accelerate at once, but only accelerate when the car in front of them is far enough ahead. This results in situations where you have a dumbass loving traffic jam where cars keep on stopping in the same spot forever. This is perfectly realistic though. It's exactly what happens in real life and is exactly the reason why the scenario I described in my last post happens with one guy slamming his brakes causing a traffic jam.
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Apr 11, 2015 01:08
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So, for the maps I was looking for, I scrounged around enough, and I wanted to share what I found: http://imgur.com/a/5dZW4 All 9 original maps, screencapped from the game.
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Apr 11, 2015 01:08
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Subyng posted:This is perfectly realistic though. It's exactly what happens in real life and is exactly the reason why the scenario I described in my last post happens with one guy slamming his brakes causing a traffic jam. I don't think that that's really realistic, as in real life people can see that the car ahead of them is accelerating. In this game you wind up with jams where there shouldn't be any at all.
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Apr 11, 2015 01:12
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Fish Fry Andy posted:But you don't have to have dedicated turn lanes. My original point was that you don't need to do any gamey poo poo to have smoothly flowing traffic, and the majority of the complaints that I see are the product of people trying to force the game to work the way they want, rather than playing along with the game and the simulation's rules. Dedicated turn lanes don't exist in the base game, and you also don't really need them. But I want them and will have them so thanks modding community 
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Apr 11, 2015 01:20
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VotGs posted:So, for the maps I was looking for, I scrounged around enough, and I wanted to share what I found: This should be in the OP.
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Apr 11, 2015 01:21
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I'd like to just take a second to remind everyone that, despite what shortcomings it might have, we're still drat lucky to have this game.
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Apr 11, 2015 01:28
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Longbaugh01 posted:I'd like to just take a second to remind everyone that, despite what shortcomings it might have, we're still drat lucky to have this game. The worst thing about this game is that I am dumb and can't make pretty cities.
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Apr 11, 2015 01:30
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Fish Fry Andy posted:I don't think that that's really realistic, as in real life people can see that the car ahead of them is accelerating. In this game you wind up with jams where there shouldn't be any at all. People don't drive bumper to bumper in real life either. Good drivers don't hit the gas the moment they see the car in front move an inch. maybe there's room for a happy medium, but the start stop behaviour of cars never stood out to me as being abnormal. Subyng fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 01:31
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Subyng posted:People don't drive bumper to bumper in real life either. I guess there's room for a happy medium, but the start stop behaviour of cars never stops out to me as being abnormal. ... Have you BEEN to [my city]?!?
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Apr 11, 2015 01:33
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[Yes/no.] Well ideally our cars would be fully automated and could 100% predict the movement of the car in front, but until that day, good drivers will leave space in front of them, and yes that does slow traffic.
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Apr 11, 2015 01:37
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WarLocke posted:... Have you BEEN to [my city]?!? Yeah what, people drive bumper to bumper all over the place, usually around the time called 'rush hour'
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Apr 11, 2015 01:38
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Baronjutter posted:I think people define "gamey" in different ways. I mean this is a game so obviously everything will be game-like. But it's a game sort of simulating a real thing: cities, and specifically traffic. When you have to do something in the game that's very counter to what you'd do in real life, or run into a huge problem because some system in the game doesn't behave how you'd expect it to behave in real life, that's when people complain about "gamey" situations. Short of being a perfect traffic simulator that needs to run on a supercomputer and can't even run in real-time it will of course never be totally realistic. I've never thought about the AI and haven't had a single traffic issue. I set up the roads how they make sense to me as I've seen them in real life. Can you post some of your cities where you are having problems？
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Apr 11, 2015 01:42
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KakerMix posted:Yeah what, people drive bumper to bumper all over the place, usually around the time called 'rush hour' Well, yes, okay, when traffic is moving slowly they do. I was thinking more of a situation where cars are going fast. You wouldn't have cars bumper to bumper all going 100kph.
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Apr 11, 2015 02:02
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nielsm posted:Also, the 50% crime rate unlockable is almost impossible? I couldn't manage to get it above 25%. Fire departments will reduce crime, but it's not worth removing them as all your burnt down buildings will do the same. What you want is high density, and a lot of it. And you need zero police and education, but some medical. I've had it go up to 48% last I played and I had just gotten to placing lots of high density buildings. Oh yeah, you'll need a lot more cemeteries...for reasons. Mass transit and parks will help upgrade places and maximize your people per square mile and ensure you're rolling in dough. Pollution isn't much of a concern either, so knocking out the five full landfill cheevo is an easy one to do at the same time, along with the tax based ones since you're providing almost nothing for your people.
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Apr 11, 2015 02:49
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Subyng posted:Well, yes, okay, when traffic is moving slowly they do. I was thinking more of a situation where cars are going fast. You wouldn't have cars bumper to bumper all going 100kph. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_wave
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Apr 11, 2015 08:16
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Subyng posted:People don't drive bumper to bumper in real life either. Good drivers don't hit the gas the moment they see the car in front move an inch. maybe there's room for a happy medium, but the start stop behaviour of cars never stood out to me as being abnormal. I'm not even talking about them driving bumper to bumper, the issue is that cars can't slow down (to my knowledge), but in this game you get situations where cars come to a stop well after the vehicle in front of them has already begun accelerating away. You wind up with situations where vehicles are stopping for basically no reason.
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Apr 11, 2015 08:26
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Longbaugh01 posted:I'd like to just take a second to remind everyone that, despite what shortcomings it might have, we're still drat lucky to have this game. Recap: quote:Was Skylines already actively in development when the 2013 SimCity came out? Imagine if Simcity had managed to avoid the terrible server problems, had been an offline game, and had a slightly better simulation. It would probably still be locked down to a point where it was virtually un-moddable, and we'd have ended up with a mediocre city simulator which stills leaves much to be desired, and Skylines would never have happened. It was almost worth paying the $60 to make sure Simcity was as poo poo as it was.
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Apr 11, 2015 08:57
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Is that the same as a phantom traffic jam? I think that's what we know them as here in Britain, and here is a very British man explaining them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goVjVVaLe10 Also, on traffic jam discussion, this:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_National_Highway_110_traffic_jam
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Apr 11, 2015 09:03
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I have a highway in my city that's so loving busy that it suffers from the accordion effect :/
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Apr 11, 2015 10:31
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nielsm posted:The achievements enable with mods mod definitely does work, also in the latest patch. What the other goon said. You just need a lot of cims that are uneducated, jobless, sick and unhappy. Try experimenting with switching off services in a particular order and see how that affects the crime rate. As a last resort you can turn off your power sources as well. It took me a few tries but I unlocked it last night. I couldn't do it on my 100k population city though, so I started a new one and managed to unlock it with a 15k one. I think 15-20k might be a sweet spot? Any lower and people just move out before you hit 50%, any higher and it gets difficult to actually reach the 50%. edit: Oh yeah I forgot to post this; -- http://community.simtropolis.com/topic/66390-how-do-i-raise-crime-rate/ helped me with a few tips on trying to get that crime cheeve last night. give me thread fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 12:00
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