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FrostyPox posted:Yeah, that's always driven me nuts about people defending the price of GW stuff. "YEAH BUT YOU GET SO MANY EXTRA USELESS BITS YOU'LL NEVER USE, IT'S GREAT I LOVE IT I mean, like. Having an extra combi-melta or whatever kicking around? That's okay. Not $15 extra for the whole box okay, but okay. You get into diminishing returns really quickly though. The thing with "added value," though, is that it's supposed to be added value, i.e. not stuff that you explicitly or implicitly pay extra for. The box should have an extra melta because it adds basically no marginal cost and GW can afford to be menschen about it, not because the cost of the box is slowly creeping up. Same with the extra detail on sculpts. It's TYOOL 2015, the sculpts are supposed to have great detail! It's not a super amazing selling point!
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Apr 11, 2015 02:28
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JerryLee posted:I mean, like. Having an extra combi-melta or whatever kicking around? That's okay. Not $15 extra for the whole box okay, but okay. You get into diminishing returns really quickly though.  The blurb for the Sicarian Pit Droids on GW's site says something like "This kit has twenty five different weapons holy poo poo isn't that awesome!?" and it's like... well, since I need, like, ten of those weapons and then I'll have 15 dingus swords and whatsit launchers that I will never use sitting on a sprue or in a box it's like... No? I mean, I don't know, having every weapon option available is theoretically good, otherwise you have the Devastator box that doesn't come with 4 of any weapon IIRC, but on the other hand, lol @ paying a premium for fifteen weapons I'll never use. FrostyPox fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 02:47
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JerryLee posted:Same with the extra detail on sculpts. It's TYOOL 2015, the sculpts are supposed to have great detail! It's not a super amazing selling point! If anything it's teetering towards the opposite side, where the highly-detailed sculpts need to be saved for the HQ and other special characters. Having average rank & file troops with tons of great little details that need to be picked out if you're wanting to do a halfway-decent job is kind of silly, especially when you have* to paint 50-100 of the fuckers to get a decent army going. *that is if you're bothering to paint 'em at all, of course. I'm a typical insane gamer and like to have my armies painted and such; that said, I can see why some people might be put off painting after having to do up the Golden Belt Buckle Of Doom on Space Marine #24 out of 50, and just play with their poo poo completely unprimered instead
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Apr 11, 2015 04:04
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Sydney Bottocks posted:If anything it's teetering towards the opposite side, where the highly-detailed sculpts need to be saved for the HQ and other special characters. Having average rank & file troops with tons of great little details that need to be picked out if you're wanting to do a halfway-decent job is kind of silly, especially when you have* to paint 50-100 of the fuckers to get a decent army going. Frankly, the relatively high model count is one of many things keeping me away from 40K (and Fantasy, oh Christ, Fantasy). I just finished painting six Arcane Tempest Gun Mages for Warmachine and the last two were like pulling teeth. I never want to paint like 30 of more-or-less the same model. I actually recently unpacked my 2000 point Skaven Army (completely unpainted) just to see what it looks like on a table and almost cried at the thought of having to paint the like 140 models that comprised the army (and that's with like 800 points of characters, too). FrostyPox fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 04:08
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lol at the new pipe terrain being $37 USD
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Apr 11, 2015 04:34
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Pay us $37 for this piece of cover that has a chance of exploding if you take cover there! Meanwhile, Forgeworld is still leading the good fight of introducing a new weapon with every new mini.  New missiles!  A new 60" St 10 Ap 2 Heavy 1 lascannon and a whatthechrist template/melee weapon. I hope you like making St rolls! I once made a joke about it being great that Hams introduces new weapons with every new release, and one guy was legit happy that there are more units that aren't just dudes with lasguns or bolters. At least their fortifications don't look like a dildo on a pile of skulls.  Then again, I don't feel like paying 125 pound for the privilege of not having to paint a bajillion skulls on a turret. Talking about bits, yes, I would be excited about getting leftover bits from mechanicus sprues because then I could customize guardsmen, but that would mean buying those lovely mechanicus dudes and more GW guardsmen I mean, I love Guardsmen, but not on GW prices.
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Apr 11, 2015 06:28
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This thing looks awesome though. I can fault Forgeworld for a lot, but they get the Mechanicus aesthetic, for me, FAR better than core GW seem to have done.
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Apr 11, 2015 08:36
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I just can't look at this "web bundle" and not be stunned. http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Skitarii-War-Cohort-Web-Bundle I actually reasonably like the new Skitarii models, too, but that kind of price is absurd. Compare with oh, I dunno, a Tyrant pledge for the KoW Kickstarter, which was $150 less than that. Like, seriously. A "staggering" 99 models vs. somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000+ models depending on what you pick. Admittedly, that was a great deal, but hell, if you're going to throw down around a grand all at once on a miniatures purchase, I think you'd want something worth your time. I mean, is that War Cohort even a full army? Probably not.
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Apr 11, 2015 12:56
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Am I correctly reading that the $1,000 Skitarii bundle doesn't come with a codex? I mean goddamn that's a kick in the balls. "Thanks for the thousand, now pony up another $50 bitch."
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Apr 11, 2015 13:26
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thegodofchuck posted:Compare with oh, I dunno, a Tyrant pledge for the KoW Kickstarter, which was $150 less than that. I wonder how much disposable income GW think their target market has. Stuff like the "full Space Marine chapter" deal were coming out in the middle of a recession and made me wonder if GW were aiming exclusively at wealthy customers - the kind of rich geek who remembers playing 40K as a child and now wants to throw his huge bank account at some serious nostalgia.
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Apr 11, 2015 13:26
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No transfers? Weak.
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Apr 11, 2015 13:27
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The moment I lost any last vestives of respect and faith in GW was when I saw the Space Wolf Great Company bundle. A huge package deal that not only doesn't give you any savings over individual purchases (in a world where you can get them new for like 20% off GW prices), no limited models, but doesn't even include any chapter-specific bits for the generic space marines that make up a good part of the collection? That's just insulting. I mean, I could hunt down Forgeworld bits and unique models and still have it cheaper than what GW offered, but if I wanted that kind of treatment the money would probably be better spent on a professional dominatrix.
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Apr 11, 2015 13:44
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I don't play Warhammer 40k (outside of the Dawn of War games and such) but I think I'd buy that and put that on my desk. thegodofchuck posted:I just can't look at this "web bundle" and not be stunned. Wasn't there a "bundle" of Ultramarines minis that were like $2500 or something ridiculous?
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Apr 11, 2015 13:49
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Kaiju Cage Match posted:Wasn't there a "bundle" of Ultramarines minis that were like $2500 or something ridiculous? There was a "full Chapter" deal for $10,000.
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Apr 11, 2015 13:51
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Loxbourne posted:There was a "full Chapter" deal for $10,000. Holy poo poo that price was higher than I remember. I wonder if anyone actually bought it (I'm guessing there's at least one crazy person who did).
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Apr 11, 2015 13:58
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I'm pretty sure there was one GOON who did, but I can't remember who. I fondly remember the days when you could order individual bits from the GW website. Nearly 20 years ago now(!) - I remember picking and choosing the metal parts for cool conversions I was planning and all that sort of thing. Those were the days.
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Apr 11, 2015 14:02
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thespaceinvader posted:I'm pretty sure there was one GOON who did, but I can't remember who. I used to just spend hours pouring over the website and the annuals (not the poo poo pretty picture catalogs they have now, but the converters' bits guides, basically) just thinking about what I could make. And then I would order it! And they even had deals and promotions, too (remember when you could get free white dwarf subscriptions with purchase, or maybe it was vice versa) Between free subs for orders and then what I got when they cancelled all the fanatic mags, I ended up with like 10 years of WD. And Skullz were pretty cool too. I have some limited edition tech priests to run with that $1000 web bundle you can bet your rear end I won't buy.
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Apr 11, 2015 14:15
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Ah, the days of ordering specific bitz. And now if you want that you basically have to buy two full kits. For a company who's strength is "you can customize the poo poo out of your models", they sure make it difficult to customize the poo poo of your models.
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Apr 11, 2015 15:14
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FrostyPox posted:Ah, the days of ordering specific bitz. And now if you want that you basically have to buy two full kits. To be fair, even if they did think that they could do a bits service, it would be nothing but regular plastic sprues with the occasional finecast sprue in there. Unless they set up a legion of minimum wage slave drones with clippers clipping parts off the sprue (not gonna happen), then there wouldn't be individual bits.
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Apr 11, 2015 16:52
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Yeah, the days of separate metal bits are done. But even then, (were I ever to buy from GW again) I wouldn't mind being able to order single sprues rather than whole boxes; I usually don't want to build more than single models, as I'm not actually in it for the wargame.
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Apr 11, 2015 16:59
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I miss the days of the bitz store but financially it wasn't the best decision for them. They still have the popular bits like jetpacks and stuff, and if we're honest with ourselves we'll realize that plasma gun w/ arm #3 or mechanical arm #2 or that specific set of legs for pathfinder #5 didn't make sense to clip out of a full sprue and ship. Of course, this could be said about the bad business decision to have too many extraneous bits anyway. The blood angel and crusading marines upgrade boxes made sense, even if I hate the amount of care they give to marines and their special snowflake variants. Sprues are fine, individual bits are not.
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Apr 11, 2015 17:06
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Thing is though that there's literally people who make their money off of clipping bits from GW sprues and reselling them. And those people have to buy the sprues so it's already more expensive for them than it would be for GW. So you might go, "Okay, it might still be a net profitable business, but it's still too small for GW to bother with," and that'd be a halfway reasonable-sounding statement, if redolent of modern corporate pathology--except GW also tries to stop anyone else from being able to do that business either. They can't go after them directly for doing something illegal the way they can with recasters (though I'd bet dollars to donuts they've asked their lawyers to look into it) but they've sure as hell tried to reduce the chances of their products making it into the hands of bits sellers. So saying "well, it's just not worthwhile for GW to sell bits anymore" is misleading in the light of the evidence that GW loving hates the idea of people being able to buy a reasonably priced individual bit, at all. But you see, GW is a hobbyist company, not a warga*begins violently vomiting and making GBS threads simultaneously*
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Apr 11, 2015 17:55
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JerryLee posted:But you see, GW is a hobbyist company, not a warga*begins violently vomiting and making GBS threads simultaneously* Uh oh. He's caught Moola syndrome. This thread is trapped in the warp. A pact with Nurgle is the only way out.
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Apr 11, 2015 18:13
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It reduces aggregate demand for GW products, because otherwise, you would have to buy the entire box for that bit and as a true GW hobbyist you will enjoy spending your money on the products they make! http://investor.games-workshop.com/our-business-model/ quote:We have a simple strategy at Games Workshop. We make the best fantasy miniatures in the world and sell them globally at a profit and we intend to do this forever.
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Apr 11, 2015 18:15
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Leperflesh posted:I tried the first Elric book and didn't like it. That was a long long time ago so I don't really remember why any more. I think it was something to do with the protagonist being an unlikable rear end in a top hat. Elric is basically a half-parody of books like Conan. Helps if you read it in that context. I think it started as basically a full on parody that developed into its own thing as Moorcock solidified his ideas about the Eternal Champion and the multiverse. Imagined fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 18:46
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Yuuuup. I recently bought some spare heads from an eBay bits seller, for my egyptian undead snake riders/evil snakes kit, because I magnetized it so I could have it be either unit but then realized that there are only four heads on the sprues instead of the six I needed (note that the kit is for three models, so you get one spare head). I spent I think $8 including shipping, which is too much, but I'd already glued all the other stuff together when I discovered my head shortage and I'm not gonna just abandon the project. Also note I did not pay retail for this kit, it was in the discount bin at my FLGS when they were clearing out the last of their Warhammer Fantasy inventory a few years ago. Anyway. This is the classic dumb thinking we've seen over and over - and not just from GW, although they have it really really bad. Just because a specific line of sales is not very profitable, doesn't mean it's a bad idea for the company to do it. Selling individual bits, clipped from sprues, might not make much money, or it might even lose money. But it's an add-on service for your customers. It's a potential loss-leader. It encourages sales of the items that do make you money. Little Timmy is more likely to buy a kit if he has a specific conversion in mind and can get the conversion bit for a reasonable price. GW has no idea how much sales they lost of their regular lines when they discontinued their bits sales, and neither does anyone else, because GW quite definitely did no research to figure that out. They just looked at what it was costing them to run the service, and how much it was returning, and decided that it wasn't making (enough) money. Dumb dumb dumb. Imagined posted:Elric is basically a half-parody of books like Conan. Helps if you read it in that context. Hm. I could give it another chance I guess.
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Apr 11, 2015 18:54
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I spent $80 on clipped GW bits once, but compared to having to shell out something like $400 for the kits that those bits came from, it was a ridiculous bargain.
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Apr 11, 2015 19:11
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Leperflesh posted:Dumb dumb dumb. This could be the cover letter for a job application at GW and you'd be hired on the spot.
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Apr 11, 2015 23:30
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Imagined posted:Elric is basically a half-parody of books like Conan. Helps if you read it in that context. Elric is sort of modeled on Conan and can be read as a parody, but Moorcock is less interested in interrogating Howard than he is in creating a counterweight to the, as he saw it, overly moralistic trends begun by Tolkien. He's in the same boat as Leiber in that regard. Both thought fantasy had gotten stuffy and wanted to bring back the fun of the pulp era.
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Apr 11, 2015 23:43
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Peter, I admire your way of condensing high-falutin' crazy posts into tight, succinct paragraphs. And you also never tell us what you studied in college.
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Apr 12, 2015 05:06
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I read the first Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser book a couple months ago. It started off strong but ends with blatant girlfriends-in-refrigerators. Especially disappointing given one of the women was given an interesting, proactive character - in the last story she just transforms into a passive victim, to justify the boys' rampage. At least the writing style was OK. TheCosmicMuffet posted:And you also never tell us what you studied in college. What are you trying to say to me, TCM? You seemed to like it when I applied information and knowledge to analysis of Games Workshop's business. You don't like it when I apply information and knowledge to your pet theories about invisible superprehistoric technological civilizations?
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Apr 12, 2015 05:55
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Fritz Leiber wanted to make fantasy hip and sexy again. For him that meant psychedelic adventures and heaps of female sexual exploitation. One of those things is responsible for Waterdeep and skaven and all sorts of other cool fantasy bits. The other makes Westeros look like Narnia. E: It's really a goddamned shame. Leiber wrote all these really bonkers adventures that have a huge formative influence on "mainstream" fantasy as codified by D&D and its descendents, but his terrible attitude towards women and generally hosed up ethical stances make them really troubling reads. PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Apr 12, 2015 |
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Apr 12, 2015 06:40
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Leperflesh posted:I read the first Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser book a couple months ago. It started off strong but ends with blatant girlfriends-in-refrigerators. Especially disappointing given one of the women was given an interesting, proactive character - in the last story she just transforms into a passive victim, to justify the boys' rampage. I think he meant PeterWeller. PeterWeller posted:Fritz Leiber wanted to make fantasy hip and sexy again. For him that meant psychedelic adventures and heaps of female sexual exploitation. One of those things is responsible for Waterdeep and skaven and all sorts of other cool fantasy bits. The other makes Westeros look like Narnia. Eh, I'm not a good person. What Leiber book would you recommend starting with? Of course, knowing that all that happens will be nullified by balls touching steals some wind from the story, but still.
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Apr 12, 2015 07:58
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JcDent posted:I think he meant PeterWeller. Swords and Deviltry
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Apr 12, 2015 12:40
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JcDent posted:Eh, I'm not a good person. What Leiber book would you recommend starting with? Of course, knowing that all that happens will be nullified by balls touching steals some wind from the story, but still. I think you're better off starting with Swords Against Death, which has the earliest written stories, or Swords in the Mist or Swords Against Wizardry for more density of classic material. Swords and Deviltry really only has one good Fafhrd & Mouser story, although it is a quite good story.
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Apr 12, 2015 13:48
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Interesting that Elric chat pops up here, it was going on in the FATAL & Friends thread after the System Mastery podcast guy covered the Stormbringer RPG. Leperflesh if you are looking to try Moorcock again, I would suggest the Corum series. Hits the same beats as Elric but less bs. Also a great Moorcock short story to track down is a self parody that appears in the 'Flying Sorcerers' Collection.
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Apr 12, 2015 13:48
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JcDent posted:I think he meant PeterWeller. If you care about reading them in order, start with Swords Against Deviltry. If not, read whichever one has "Stardock" and/or "The Lords of Quarmall." It's been a long time since I read the series, so I'm not exactly sure where those pop up.
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Apr 12, 2015 16:20
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Thanks for the book recommendations. I'm in the process of re-re-re-reading the complete Howard Conan, but once I'm done with that, I'll probably check out the moorcock.
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Apr 12, 2015 17:12
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I couldn't get into Conan when I tried it because it reads exactly like fantasy parody now.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:13
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I know that BOLS is mostly click bait, but the level of price acceptance is crazy:quote:Games Workshop Pricing – Stepping Back From the Ledge Part of me wants to believe this only exists for click bait/comment farming, but I know better.
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Apr 13, 2015 10:29
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