Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

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FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Zeitgueist posted:

I think that while police aren't literally members of the Klan these days

Well - while that may be more true than before you picked a bad day to say so..!

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/protests-explode-after-kkk-plot-kill-black-men-florida-prison-exposed

# ? Apr 11, 2015 02:18

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# ? May 28, 2024 00:50

Cichlid the Loach: Oct 22, 2006; Brave heart, Doctor.

So here's something actually nice. New Mexico (I know, right??) just unanimously passed a bill ending civil asset forfeiture. It's replaced with criminal asset forfeiture, which requires a conviction, so there do remain perverse incentives to arrest and prosecute people. Ideally I think there should be laws forbidding the proceeds of criminal asset forfeiture from profiting the agencies that determine who's a criminal. But this is certainly something.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 07:14

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2015/04/10/cottonwood-walmart-brawl-video/25598875/

And the amazing complete video of it: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=846207218749517

quote:

A Cottonwood police video released Friday appears to show an officer shooting a man who was laying on the asphalt in a Walmart parking lot after fighting with a downed officer.

Cottonwood Police Chief Jody Fanning said that Enoch Gaver, 21, had disarmed Sgt. Jeremy Daniels and had shot him in the leg. He said Gaver was still armed with Daniels' gun when Officer Rick Hicks started hitting him with a baton.

After Hicks determined the baton had no effect, he resorted to shooting Gaver to death, Fanning said.

Hicks also shot and wounded David Gaver, who also had been on top of Daniels and had charged towards Hicks, Fanning said.

...

But even the fatal shooting doesn't end the brawl. Additional officers arrive on the scene and fight with other members of the Gaver family to bring them under control.

Five Gavers were arrested by police and booked into the Yavapai County Jail on a variety of charges, including aggravated assault on a police officer, hindering prosecution and resisting arrest.

The family was well-known in Boise, where at least three members played in a Christian band outside an Albertson's supermarket, where they would post a sign with a Biblical verse. The band was known as Matthew 24 Now, an apparent reference to the Second Coming.

Can't really tell if this is white trash or police brutality.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 07:39

PostNouveau: Sep 3, 2011; VY till I die; Grimey Drawer

Vahakyla posted:

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2015/04/10/cottonwood-walmart-brawl-video/25598875/

And the amazing complete video of it: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=846207218749517

Can't really tell if this is white trash or police brutality.

This is loving hilarious up until someone gets shot to death. Like Reno 911 levels of buffoonery.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 07:57

Accretionist: Nov 7, 2012; I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES

Vahakyla posted:

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2015/04/10/cottonwood-walmart-brawl-video/25598875/

And the amazing complete video of it: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=846207218749517

Can't really tell if this is white trash or police brutality.

That is the least dignified death I've ever seen. Also, he was shot while grappling for the gun on top of the then already-shot cop so if there's a gently caress-up it'd be at the start.

The Commencement of Battle:

Accretionist fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Apr 11, 2015

# ? Apr 11, 2015 08:33

pentyne: Nov 7, 2012

PostNouveau posted:

This is loving hilarious up until someone gets shot to death. Like Reno 911 levels of buffoonery.

So the guy actually had the cop's gun, was getting shots off left and right and hit an officer, and the cops still tried to take him down non-lethally until the end.

Holy poo poo the brawlin' family look almost cro-magnon.
http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1190&articleID=65264

quote:

Their father, Peter Gaver, 55, also requested a different judge "as a matter of right."

Judge Bluff told the defendant that he would hear the not guilty plea, and then refer the change of judge matter to the presiding judge for consideration.

The Rule of Criminal Procedure 10.2 provides that, "Each case shall be treated as having only two sides, except that whenever two or more parties on a side have adverse or hostile interests."

All of the family members were charged with resisting arrest and hindering prosecution. Those are the only two charges facing Peter Gaver, but his wife, Ruth, 52, and all three sons are charged with additional counts including "riot."

David Gaver, who was shot in the abdomen during the melee, is facing the most serious slate of offenses including 16 counts of aggravated assault and four counts of disorderly conduct plus two counts each of resisting arrest, and hindering prosecution.

The third son, Nathaniel, 27, also entered a not guilty plea to charges of 4 counts of aggravated assault, 2 counts of resisting arrest, 2 counts of hindering prosecution, 1 count of riot, 1 count of assault (misdemeanor) and 3 counts of disorderly conduct (misdemeanors).

Enoch Gaver, 21, was shot and killed during the incident.

Two other members of the family, an 11-year-old girl and a 15-year-old boy, face charges in juvenile court.

pentyne fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Apr 11, 2015

# ? Apr 11, 2015 08:35

PostNouveau: Sep 3, 2011; VY till I die; Grimey Drawer

pentyne posted:

So the guy actually had the cop's gun, was getting shots off left and right and hit an officer, and the cops still tried to take him down non-lethally until the end.

It's like impossible to see what the gently caress is going on by that part of the video, but man, that melee when the cops show up. 3 vs. 5 with 2 noncops randomly going at it in the foreground.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 08:39

pentyne: Nov 7, 2012

Here's the whole family

http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1190&articleID=65055

quote:

A family of nine, packed into a Chevrolet Suburban, was camping at the Cottonwood Walmart parking lot in the days before a deadly brawl with Cottonwood Police Saturday night.

Walmart called for police help after the Gavers had reportedly gone into the store's bathroom. When a Walmart employee went to check on the family, she was pushed against the wall and the store called police for help.

The Gaver family is from Boise, Idaho, according to The Idaho Statesman. The father, Peter Gaver, and two sons, Nathaniel and Jeremiah Gaver, often played music for tips on the street.

They likewise tried to entertain outside the Fry's supermarket in Cottonwood as well as the north exit from Walmart before they were arrested over the weekend.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 08:41

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Vahakyla posted:

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2015/04/10/cottonwood-walmart-brawl-video/25598875/

And the amazing complete video of it: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=846207218749517

Can't really tell if this is white trash or police brutality.

These guys (the not cops) are some of the dumbest people I have ever seen, I almost wonder if there's some mental health/development disability going on (which would make it sadder). I don't know what the gently caress they were thinking (I guess it was white privilege gone wrong). Sounds like someone in the group battered a walmart employee because they didn't want a female employee going into the same restroom as their mom? I have no doubt that these crazy fuckers could have grabbed the cop's gun.

The police could have used better crowd control, but misdemeanor cites rarely go this crazy.

It would be funny if no one what been shot.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 08:41

lmaoboy1998: Oct 23, 2013

On the 'give them all the death penalty' thing that came a little earlier in the thread:

One of my friends is a UK policeman and he's a racist. He talks constantly about how Somalis cause all of his problems at work. He also seems to be becoming slightly unhinged. Last time we met there was a concerning moment where he went completely wild-eyed and announced �one day I'm just going to say gently caress it, ignore all the rules they put on me and do whatever I want�. I definitely wouldn't want to put a gun into his hands at work.

I've also learned from talking to him that his job actually is one of the shittest jobs in the world - and that's here, in the UK, where things are bad but infinitely better than many cities in the US. He's been assaulted multiple times. He told me recently �don't ever get into a career. I hate mine so much but I've invested too much time in it and I can't get out�. A lot of police, even the racist, borderline unhinged ones, aren't actually power tripping hard nuts. They're people who genuinely hate their lovely lives to the point of distraction. They signed up for it, sure, but it's hard to sign off when you've learnt almost no skills in the process.

A lot of policemen are deeply flawed, profoundly stupid individuals. But if you take profoundly stupid, flawed human beings, and put them in a series of extremely high stress situations, which due to socioeconomic stuff they obviously don't understand often happen to involve black men, it's not actually surprising that they end up becoming unhinged racists. That's what was always going to happen. They didn't choose to be stupid people who jump to conclusions, but we did choose as a society to employ them as police and put them in violent, racially charged situations without any real education on how those came about. The result is obvious. Human evil has nothing to do with it, and talk of the death penalty is retarded and barbaric, as it always is.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 08:48

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

lmaoboy1998 posted:

On the 'give them all the death penalty' thing that came a little earlier in the thread:

One of my friends is a UK policeman and he's a racist. He talks constantly about how Somalis cause all of his problems at work. He also seems to be becoming slightly unhinged. Last time we met there was a concerning moment where he went completely wild-eyed and announced �one day I'm just going to say gently caress it, ignore all the rules they put on me and do whatever I want�. I definitely wouldn't want to put a gun into his hands at work.

I've also learned from talking to him that his job actually is one of the shittest jobs in the world - and that's here, in the UK, where things are bad but infinitely better than many cities in the US. He's been assaulted multiple times. He told me recently �don't ever get into a career. I hate mine so much but I've invested too much time in it and I can't get out�. A lot of police, even the racist, borderline unhinged ones, aren't actually power tripping hard nuts. They're people who genuinely hate their lovely lives to the point of distraction. They signed up for it, sure, but it's hard to sign off when you've learnt almost no skills in the process.

A lot of policemen are deeply flawed, profoundly stupid individuals. But if you take profoundly stupid, flawed human beings, and put them in a series of extremely high stress situations, which due to socioeconomic stuff they obviously don't understand often happen to involve black men, it's not actually surprising that they end up becoming unhinged racists. That's what was always going to happen. They didn't choose to be stupid people who jump to conclusions, but we did choose as a society to employ them as police and put them in violent, racially charged situations without any real education on how those came about. The result is obvious. Human evil has nothing to do with it, and talk of the death penalty is retarded and barbaric, as it always is.

He should quit before he does something horrible. You can kill someone without a gun.
Some people, hell, most people shouldn't be cops. Most cops shouldn't be cops. I know some "good" cops (who have called out lying cops), and they don't hate their jobs like that.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 08:51

Accretionist: Nov 7, 2012; I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES

pentyne posted:

So the guy actually had the cop's gun, was getting shots off left and right and hit an officer, and the cops still tried to take him down non-lethally until the end.

Oh ho, no, you should watch the video. It's retarded as hell.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 08:52

lmaoboy1998: Oct 23, 2013

nm posted:

He should quit before he does something horrible. You can kill someone without a gun.
Some people, hell, most people shouldn't be cops. Most cops shouldn't be cops. I know some "good" cops (who have called out lying cops), and they don't hate their jobs like that.

Unfortunately it's an unsolvable problem as the work is low paid and always will be, meaning the best and brightest aren't going to flock to be cops. He'll quit and some other slightly thuggish young man will replace him and get equally angry at having to spend his New Years Eve disarming mentally ill Somalis. The circle of life.

The only thing you can do is improve training. Mandatory courses on socio-economic causes of crime, with an emphasis on the fact that this explains minority crime rates, for every police officer, with a test at the end. Might work, might not. Who the fark knows>

# ? Apr 11, 2015 09:17

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

Accretionist posted:

That is the least dignified death I've ever seen. Also, he was shot while grappling for the gun on top of the then already-shot cop so if there's a gently caress-up it'd be at the start.

The Commencement of Battle:

Look how tactically sound everything about that is.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 09:20

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

loving South Carolina of all places:

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20150410/PC1603/150419942/1177

quote:

COLUMBIA, S.C. � An eyewitness�s video of a white North Charleston officer fatally shooting a black man as he ran away could propel the South Carolina Legislature to pass a law calling for body cameras on law enforcement officers statewide.

A bill requiring officers to record their public interactions on body-worn cameras has been before a Senate panel for weeks without progress. Questions about data storage, privacy and cost have repeatedly delayed any vote.

But the North Charleston shooting has made it a priority.

Register | Manage Newsletters
Senate Judiciary Chairman Larry Martin says the bill is �very high at the top of our to-do list.� He expects the subcommittee to advance the measure this week.

At least 15 law enforcement agencies across the state either already use cameras or have ordered them.

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20150410/PC16/150419860

quote:

Several of South Carolina�s House members are discussing the idea of introducing legislation that would require the State Law Enforcement Division to investigate all officer-involved shootings, following the death of Walter Scott.

Rep. Carl Anderson, D-Georgetown, said several members are discussing filing a bill that would clarify who should investigate officer-involved shootings. Though most police departments usually call in SLED, it�s not a requirement, he said.

South Carolina Rep. Carl Anderson of Georgetown said the Legislature will consider a bill requiring all police-involved shootings to be investigated by SLED.
Enlarge South Carolina Rep. Carl Anderson of Georgetown said the Legislature will consider a bill requiring all police-involved shootings to be investigated by SLED. Brad Nettles/Staff
�Law enforcement needs to be held accountable,� Anderson said. �So we need a bill that�s going to make sure that they are accountable, records are straight, and someone can check behind them.�

The call comes after 50-year-old Scott, a father of four, was shot and killed by North Charleston Police Officer Michael Slager. The 33-year-old fired officer has been charged with murder.

Though North Charleston Police turned over the case for investigation to SLED, that�s doesn�t always happen, said House Minority Leader Rep. Todd Rutherford, D-Richland. The pending bill would also require that the attorney general�s office take over the prosecution.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 09:49

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

lmaoboy1998 posted:

Unfortunately it's an unsolvable problem as the work is low paid and always will be, meaning the best and brightest aren't going to flock to be cops. He'll quit and some other slightly thuggish young man will replace him and get equally angry at having to spend his New Years Eve disarming mentally ill Somalis. The circle of life.

This may be true in the UK, but i hear this repeated everywhere. Here (California) cops are extremely well paid. It starts in the 40-60s before OT and a patrol officer with a few years can be making low six figures pretty quickly. Average in CA is $97,000/yr. CHP is even better paid (start at $76k before OT), but they basically require a college degree.
Oh and they get like 3% at 50 pensions (which means if you start at 20, you can retire at 50 with 90% of salary)

# ? Apr 11, 2015 09:53

Accretionist: Nov 7, 2012; I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES

Yeah, there's huge variation. After 6 months, a Seattle cop's at ~$75,000. My Florida buddy's D&D group has a career cop making $26,000.

There was actually an article about this following the flare up in St. Louis:

Article: Police Pay Gap: Many of America's Finest Struggle on Poverty Wages
From: NBC News
Date: October 26, 2014

quote:

In the aftermath of the police shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, last August, police officers from throughout St. Louis County were dispatched there to respond to mounting protests. Though the officers were doing the same jobs, they were paid starkly different wages, some as low as $10.50 an hour.

Data obtained by NBC News from 24 municipal police departments in St. Louis County reveal a gulf between police officer pay in poor, majority African-American northern cities and wealthier, whiter cities further south. Average annual patrol officer pay ranges from $23,000 in Hillsdale to nearly $70,000 in Town and County and Des Peres.

The police pay gap in St. Louis County is mirrored in metropolitan areas and rural communities around the United States, with some officers earning a comfortable middle-class living and others scraping by on poverty and near poverty wages, forced to take second and third jobs to cover basic costs.

...

# ? Apr 11, 2015 10:24

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Sounds like their police unions should focus less on protecting bad cops and more on pay.
While it should be noted that base pay is basically useless for calculating what cops make because of OT (note that a lot of OT in a good contract doesn't really require much work beyond 40hrs), but the idea of a cop making $11.18 is terrifying. That's the guy who couldn't get a job at loving costco.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 10:29

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

Lol there is at least one city in South Carolina with cops that earn 9.50 an hour.

They do pay for the academy, so many just ditch and run.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 10:31

Voyager I: Jun 29, 2012; This is how your posting feels.
🐥🐥🐥🐥🐥

Vahakyla posted:

Lol there is at least one city in South Carolina with cops that earn 9.50 an hour.

They do pay for the academy, so many just ditch and run.

Sweet Christ that was my starting salary at Dunkin' loving Donuts.

Do they at least get benefits?

# ? Apr 11, 2015 14:24

chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

Voyager I posted:

Do they at least get benefits?

A license to kill?

# ? Apr 11, 2015 14:47

Untagged: Mar 29, 2004; Hey, does your planet have wiper fluid yet or you gonna freak out and start worshiping us?

Was a local town in this state paying $11 an hour for Sgt. with a few years experience and a masters degree. Even the wawa there paid more and had better benefits.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 14:59

SSJ_naruto_2003: Oct 12, 2012

I would unironically kill for $11 an hour, that's probably more than I will make starting off at DHR.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 16:16

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Accretionist posted:

Yeah, there's huge variation. After 6 months, a Seattle cop's at ~$75,000. My Florida buddy's D&D group has a career cop making $26,000.

Before the recession I saw an ad for a ~~ticket monkey~~ ~~meter maid~~ Parking Enforcement spot in LA that was over 70k.

I also had a senior officer tell me that when he travels out of State he never discusses salary with other officers. Apparently it produces friction.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 16:51

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Sportsfans are good at making noise. Maybe this will do something.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/203937/so-nypd-just-broke-nba-players-leg

quote:

So... the NYPD Just Broke an NBA Player�s Leg

... Sefolosha�s damaged fibula comes after a season when NBA players spent last winter making statements against police violence, after the killings of Michael Brown and Eric Garner.

... The police version, to quote ESPN�s original article, was, �Sefolosha sustained the injury while resisting arrest outside a Manhattan night club early Wednesday morning.

... We do have a videotape of what took place, but all it reveals is multiple police officers jumping the rail-thin 6'7" 220 pound Sefolosha. Ironically, or tellingly, his fellow-arrestee, Pero Antic, has an appearance we�ll describe as ornately terrifying. Tattooed, bald, seven feet tall and over 260 pounds, he is a Macedonian guy who happens to be white. Sefolosha is a Swiss guy who happens to be black. The terrifying seven-footer walked away and the guy from Switzerland was jumped. Whether or not racial bias was involved, the optics of this are very familiar to anyone who has followed the methodologies of the NYPD.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 17:01

My Rhythmic Crotch: Jan 13, 2011

quote:

"If they can shoot a white boy like a dog, imagine what we�ve been going through."
...
I learned that an officer had put his gun up directly to Michael�s right temple and misfired, then did it again, and shot him.

This article, written last year, seems more and more relevant as time goes on. There really was absolutely no interest in police killings until recently.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 18:19

ate shit on live tv: Feb 15, 2004; by Azathoth

Vahakyla posted:

loving South Carolina of all places:

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20150410/PC1603/150419942/1177

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20150410/PC16/150419860

You mean your regionalist otherizing stereotypes aren't necessarily correct? Quelle surprise.

Anyway, glad Progressive Strongholds like Utah and South Carolina are leading the country in police accountability. Maybe one day backwards places like Massachusetts and New York City, will catch up.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 18:43

Murderion: Oct 4, 2009; 2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
FUN TIME

Vahakyla posted:

Lol there is at least one city in South Carolina with cops that earn 9.50 an hour.

They do pay for the academy, so many just ditch and run.

This is the sort of thing that organised statistics on police shootings would be useful for - comparing the amount a cop gets paid with likelihood to be involved in a shooting. Are there any statistics gathered on American police performance that isn't K/D ratio?

GreyPowerVan posted:

I would unironically kill for $11 an hour, that's probably more than I will make starting off at DHR.

Would you prefer your victim to be fleeing, prone or armed with a wiffle bat? This is important.

# ? Apr 11, 2015 20:55

Xibanya: Sep 17, 2012; Clever Betty

The mom of the crazy musicians was probably bathing in the sink of the bathroom (so they probably went ages between bathing and all stank to high heaven.)

# ? Apr 12, 2015 03:44

SSJ_naruto_2003: Oct 12, 2012

Murderion posted:

This is the sort of thing that organised statistics on police shootings would be useful for - comparing the amount a cop gets paid with likelihood to be involved in a shooting. Are there any statistics gathered on American police performance that isn't K/D ratio?

Would you prefer your victim to be fleeing, prone or armed with a wiffle bat? This is important.

Prone is probably safest for me.

# ? Apr 12, 2015 03:56

Florida Betty: Sep 24, 2004

Here's a story out of VA.

A mentally ill woman was in a jail cell with her hands handcuffed behind her back, leg shackles, and a protective face mask, and was tasered to death because she refused to bend her knees to be put in a wheeled restraint chair.

Such a completely unnecessary death. Police are investigating, no charges filed yet, etc.

# ? Apr 12, 2015 05:23

Comstar: Apr 20, 2007; Are you happy now?

Florida Betty posted:

Here's a story out of VA.

It's perfectly normal for them to taser someone who is already restrained!?!

quote:

Fairfax County Sheriff Stacey Kincaid declined to comment on the case but defended the use of a stun gun on a restrained prisoner, saying it was �a means that is often useful to ensure the safety of a person� rather than using physical force to gain compliance. She said stun guns were used �occasionally� on prisoners who are already restrained.

I suppose it's slightly better than shooting to death someone already handcuffed? A setup in safety for everyone.

# ? Apr 12, 2015 09:00

Pohl: Jan 28, 2005; In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

Florida Betty posted:

Here's a story out of VA.

A mentally ill woman was in a jail cell with her hands handcuffed behind her back, leg shackles, and a protective face mask, and was tasered to death because she refused to bend her knees to be put in a wheeled restraint chair.

Such a completely unnecessary death. Police are investigating, no charges filed yet, etc.

They aren't even necessarily malicious. There is just so much internalized "you will consent and bow to my authority" bullshit that they can't seem to help themselves.

Should we step back and reevaluate the situation? Nah, let's just continue to escalate the situation and torture her to death.

# ? Apr 12, 2015 16:49

Hollismason: Jun 30, 2007; An alright dude.

It's because police training lends to the idea of complete and utter control. Like they don't do what you want force them until they do no matter what.

# ? Apr 12, 2015 16:54

Alastor_the_Stylish: Jul 25, 2006; WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/video-shows-tulsa-man-shot-deputy-meant-stun-article-1.2181787

Grandpa meant to taze the subdued suspect, but shot him to death. Haha, ooooh grandpa you crazy old coot.

# ? Apr 12, 2015 17:26

Spacman: Mar 18, 2014

Hollismason posted:

It's because police training lends to the idea of complete and utter control. Like they don't do what you want force them until they do no matter what.

I'd disagree with that.

The last police involved shooting death we had here ( around two years ago) involved a domestic that went bad. Local units rolled up on an elderly male bleeding from lacerations to the face and torso. While trying to figure poo poo out his wife ran out of the house and attempted to stab him with a kitchen knife, all four police on scene shot the woman, a 72 year old grandmother of 6.

I think possibly in that case it was less thug cops forcing control and more thug cops trying to stop a murder. YMMV though.

# ? Apr 12, 2015 17:31

more friedman units: Jul 7, 2010; The next six months will be critical.

Spacman posted:

I'd disagree with that.

The last police involved shooting death we had here ( around two years ago) involved a domestic that went bad. Local units rolled up on an elderly male bleeding from lacerations to the face and torso. While trying to figure poo poo out his wife ran out of the house and attempted to stab him with a kitchen knife, all four police on scene shot the woman, a 72 year old grandmother of 6.

I think possibly in that case it was less thug cops forcing control and more thug cops trying to stop a murder. YMMV though.

You're not really disagreeing with what he said, though. Police culture seems to advocate escalating violence quickly to assert control. You're giving an example of police stopping an attempted murder by shooting a knife-wielding 72 year old. That seems like the exact situation that Tasers are good for.

# ? Apr 12, 2015 17:42

FuriousxGeorge: Aug 8, 2007; We've been the best team all year.

They're just finding out.

A lot of cops absolutely do have a "You WILL respect my authoritah!" attitude. That can't reasonably be debated. That doesn't mean every shooting is a result of that attitude.

# ? Apr 12, 2015 17:44

Dr Pepper: Feb 4, 2012; Don't like it? well...

Yeah sometimes they're just racist and afraid of a black 10 year old boy

# ? Apr 12, 2015 17:46

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# ? May 28, 2024 00:50

Pohl: Jan 28, 2005; In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

Dr Pepper posted:

Yeah sometimes they're just racist and afraid of a black 10 year old boy

According to them he looked like an adult. They all look alike you see... :whatup:

# ? Apr 12, 2015 17:53

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