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Finished the season. I'm still not happy with Fisk. It's like (probably 1x08 or thereabouts) he went from scared 11-year-old to criminal mastermind somehow without the show telling us how. That's fine, except he also somehow did that while staying a scared 11-year-old inside. THAT needs some explanation. It doesn't really make sense happening offscreen.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 20:46 |
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# ? May 16, 2024 19:11 |
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Gilok posted:Those panels make me want to punch Joe Quesada in the head.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 20:51 |
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Just finished episode 13 and honestly, I think the series peaked in the middle. The third arc just isn't as strong as the second one, mostly because I think the weird double final was unnecessary. There was no need for Matt and Fisk to face off after his empire was more or less dismantled. It was also weirdly anticlimactic. To elaborate, I feel that scene in the truck was a mistake. 'We have people everywhere' is generally overused and while I can accept a local crimelord, and that is what Fisk is at this point, buying of local law enforcement and officials, but literally having enough power to have a small army break him out in the middle of New York and holding off any reenforcement was just too much. It also doesn't really make sense given the plot of the series. It was repeatedly shown that while he had influence, but also limits. For example, I really liked that it was the secretary, not the EiC in the end who was the mole. He wasn't all powerful, he couldn't do it all on his own, he needed allies and could be thwarted. But that last scene basically made him the Joker in Dark Knight, a guy who literally ones everyone everywhere. Having him then go down in a fistfight in an alley, only too be re-arrested was kind of a letdown.I also think it would have mashed better with the rest of the series if it actually was conventional method that brought him down in the end, that Daredevil was only one gear in the process, if a necessary and important one, but that the real victors were Matt, Foggy, Karen and ultimately Ben. It would have given the series a theme different from the Big Man narrative that basically every other Superhero story has.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 20:53 |
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e X posted:Just finished episode 13 and honestly, I think the series peaked in the middle. The third arc just isn't as strong as the second one, mostly because I think the weird double final was unnecessary. There was no need for Matt and Fisk to face off after his empire was more or less dismantled. Haha, you try getting a politician and or big business man sent to jail through legal means in a timely manner and see how well that works out for you.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 20:57 |
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Petr posted:Finished the season. I'm still not happy with Fisk. It's like (probably 1x08 or thereabouts) he went from scared 11-year-old to criminal mastermind somehow without the show telling us how. That's fine, except he also somehow did that while staying a scared 11-year-old inside. THAT needs some explanation. It doesn't really make sense happening offscreen. He was always a criminal mastermind and a scared little boy. The arc is him getting confidence from Vennsea to come out of the shadows and realizing he was deluding himself.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 21:01 |
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NmareBfly posted:Series could use some more ladies around in general. Basically all the villain NPC's are dudes, and I guess it makes sense for street toughs but were there any female cops? I think one got snipered but I dunno if any had a single line. Elektra will help with this. At least the ones they did have were all pretty drat competent -- well, the lawyer-lady whose name I forget is mainly good at stealing files without getting noticed and they don't have much of her on-the-job doing lawyer stuff, but if she's made partner you can assume she knows what she's doing. Madame Gao was great too but they had to keep her totally enigmatic so she's less a character and more a force of nature. Full Series: I didn't wanna complain about this too much, but while this show does a better job with its women than many, maybe most media, it still has a few steps to go. As someone mentioned, they still do the Female Lead Can't Find Out the Secret! tension. That was annoying, but Karen wasn't just there to function as the love interest of the main character, and instead got her own plot, so I'll say they're still out on top with Karen. Claire, despite Rosario Dawson knocking it out of the loving park, was mostly Matt's love interest, though. She didn't have anything of her own going on, really. Karen, Claire, and Vanessa are all put in damsel in distress roles repeatedly, unlike Foggy, Ben, or Wesley. And I know it's a lame test that you can't use as an absolute, but I think the only scene where multiple women are in the same scene together talking about their own poo poo is when Claire talks to Shirley, the hospital administrator, for like two lines. Other than that I can count the number of times women talk to each other about anything on one hand. Again, the show does pretty well by women. Karen, Gao, and to some extent Cardenas are all strong characters with their own plots, and Claire, Vanessa, and Marci are strong supporting characters. I thought Fisk's wife-beating dad story was handled quite deftly. The bruises you see on Marlene's arms in her first flashback were super loving disturbing. But, there's still some room to grow.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 21:03 |
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Gyges posted:Speculation on the other series but with a bit of Daredevil episode 12 spoilers I was really hoping Ben would survive because I was curious to see this version of him possibly interact with Spider-man with that whole Sony deal thing.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 21:03 |
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mr.capps posted:He was always a criminal mastermind and a scared little boy. The arc is him getting confidence from Vennsea to come out of the shadows and realizing he was deluding himself. Yeah. To counteract my criticism above, the Vanessa story was really great, especially that she the fact that she is as unmoral as he is, if not more so.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 21:05 |
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mr.capps posted:He was always a criminal mastermind and a scared little boy. The arc is him getting confidence from Vennsea to come out of the shadows and realizing he was deluding himself. More about Fisk: To clarify, he already has confidence in the beginning of the show, in his plans and will. Just not confidence in his own image.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 21:08 |
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God I wanted him so badly to put on a white suit coat and gray pants. The grey jacket was close...and his ending attire was also close...but still.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 21:11 |
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mr.capps posted:He was always a criminal mastermind and a scared little boy. The arc is him getting confidence from Vennsea to come out of the shadows and realizing he was deluding himself. That's fine, but I think they needed to show us some of how that happened. A hint about how that guy became who he is. As it is, his levels of social power and self-esteem both seem to vary depending on what is most convenient.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 21:12 |
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So psyched about the stiltman costume in potter's workshop. you can make him unsilly netflix, I believe in you!
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 21:18 |
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Petr posted:That's fine, but I think they needed to show us some of how that happened. A hint about how that guy became who he is. As it is, his levels of social power and self-esteem both seem to vary depending on what is most convenient. My read on this is that before Daredevil showed up, his whole operation was a well oiled machine that he could run with no problems from the shadows but as soon as he starts getting dragged out and having to expose himself he reverts into this weird autistic manchild shell. Vanessa helps break him out of this but he goes back into a mad spiral after her assassination attempt and by the time she's back in his life Daredevil has hosed everything up again by exposing him fully via Hoffman.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 21:21 |
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e X posted:Yeah. To counteract my criticism above, the Vanessa story was really great, especially that she the fact that she is as unmoral as he is, if not more so. That was one of my favorite parts of the whole season.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 21:23 |
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Holy poo poo at the Russian barging in during Fisk's date, the guy is so dead
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 21:28 |
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Kurtofan posted:Holy poo poo at the Russian barging in during Fisk's date, the guy is so dead And how!
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 21:29 |
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holy poo poo
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 21:31 |
Spoilers for most of the series I think, though surprisingly related to the subtitles: I thought the subtitles were related to what the characters believed people knew. Anytime people thought they needed a translator, no subtitles. You had to rely on a translator. As soon as the characters knew that they didn't need a translator, they got subtitles. Gao and Kubo initially didn't get subtitles as Fisk said he needed a translator, same with the scenes with Elena and Foggy in them. He needed a translator so no subtitles. Later, we got subtitles when it was just Karen and Elena, they both knew spanish. As soon as Fisk and Gao revealed they knew each others native tongue we got subtitles, there was no perceived need for a translator. Could be wrong, but that's how my subtitles seemed to be working.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 22:06 |
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You're right, it's what I thought was the case the whole time. It didn't confuse me at all, although [Masked Man] made me lol each time it happened.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 22:08 |
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seaborgium posted:Spoilers for most of the series I think, though surprisingly related to the subtitles: I thought the subtitles were related to what the characters believed people knew. Anytime people thought they needed a translator, no subtitles. You had to rely on a translator. As soon as the characters knew that they didn't need a translator, they got subtitles. Gao and Kubo initially didn't get subtitles as Fisk said he needed a translator, same with the scenes with Elena and Foggy in them. He needed a translator so no subtitles. Later, we got subtitles when it was just Karen and Elena, they both knew spanish. As soon as Fisk and Gao revealed they knew each others native tongue we got subtitles, there was no perceived need for a translator. Could be wrong, but that's how my subtitles seemed to be working. That's very true, but it seems some people weren't getting subtitles at all.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 22:10 |
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Apoplexy posted:You're right, it's what I thought was the case the whole time. It didn't confuse me at all, although [Masked Man] made me lol each time it happened. That and Murdock tossing his walking stick every time made me laugh. I could have sworn he has a retractable one too so it makes him ditching it doubly hilarious.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 22:13 |
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seaborgium posted:Spoilers for most of the series I think, though surprisingly related to the subtitles: I thought the subtitles were related to what the characters believed people knew. Anytime people thought they needed a translator, no subtitles. You had to rely on a translator. As soon as the characters knew that they didn't need a translator, they got subtitles. Gao and Kubo initially didn't get subtitles as Fisk said he needed a translator, same with the scenes with Elena and Foggy in them. He needed a translator so no subtitles. Later, we got subtitles when it was just Karen and Elena, they both knew spanish. As soon as Fisk and Gao revealed they knew each others native tongue we got subtitles, there was no perceived need for a translator. Could be wrong, but that's how my subtitles seemed to be working. You're right, and to go further, that's because they only subtitle it if the audience is supposed to know. They don't subtitle stuff when the main characters don't understand it, because we're supposed to be identifying with them, so it doesn't make sense to give us extra information they don't have. It would undermine our ability to sympathize with the characters and understand the situation. Like if there's a "fish out of water" scene in some movie where an American is in China and everyone's talking about him and he has no idea what's being said, and he's confused and nervous, you wouldn't subtitle that, either. It's a deliberate effect. So if two foreigners are alone talking non-English together, that gets subtitled, but if a main character is captured by those same people and they're talking about him/her, maybe that doesn't get subtitled. It could seem inconsistent, but it's purposeful. Though yeah there's also a separate issue where Netflix subtitles are only like 95% reliable and sometimes just skip whole lines because of lag or whatever. XboxPants fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Apr 12, 2015 |
# ? Apr 12, 2015 22:15 |
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Goonish musing on language: D'Onofrio was actually tolerable at Chinese inflections even if he spoke it like someone was repeatedly punching him in the balls between every word and, look, "tolerable" is honestly pretty high praise considering the way folks usually do it. Hilariously, the way that Madame Gao spoke -- like, the vernacular and word choice -- was super loving prosey and overwrought like she just stepped out from a warring states period poetry slam...which, considering the character's suspected origins, is probably rather fitting. If any of Fisk's motley crew were actually fluent in modern conversational Chinese they'd probably think she was even weirder than they already do.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 22:27 |
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BrianWilly posted:Goonish musing on language: D'Onofrio was actually tolerable at Chinese inflections even if he spoke it like someone was repeatedly punching him in the balls To be fair that's how he talks in english too.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 22:29 |
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Optimus Subprime posted:Also his mandarin is terrible, but not too many people would get that. I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught this because ha ha ha holy poo poo is it awful. Like bad even by the normal standards of white people pretending they speak Chinese on TV. How did the actress playing Madame Gao not tell him how bad it was?
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 22:33 |
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My cousin and I actually thought the opposite. He was actually understandable, whereas most of the time when non speakers try to speak Chinese it is impossible for me to understand. I don't think Madame Gao's actress is a native mandarin speaker. She came off as of Hong Kong origin from her speech patterns. Episode 11 Wesley's death is utter bullshit and I can't handle Karen Page. It made no sense whatsoever for a person of his stature in that situation to be that careless.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 22:41 |
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She's not Chinese at all in the story, and he's basically a giant toddler that could rip people in half. Who the gently caress is going to give them poo poo about how they talk?
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 22:44 |
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Rurutia posted:My cousin and I actually thought the opposite. He was actually understandable, whereas most of the time when non speakers try to speak Chinese it is impossible for me to understand. I think he just underestimated her balls - not only to grab the gun, but shoot it.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 22:50 |
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Wolpertinger posted:I think he just underestimated her balls - not only to grab the gun, but shoot it. Yeah, after the first bullet he looked like Then she shot him 5 more times. I actually didn't see that coming. I thought she would just slowly back out after shooting him in the arm.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 22:53 |
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Srice posted:So I am tired of Marvel movies what with how incredibly safe they play everything, how the third act is always the same and they manage to all blend into a generic style and etc etc. And I'm also tired of origin stories. I mean, hearing that this serves as an origin story for both Daredevil and the Kingpin already makes me wary about it!. The origin story is mostly told via flashbacks that explain why Matt is doing whatever it is he's doing at that moment in the story. Truthfully, they needed the origin and it's not at all heavy handed or boring and doesn't get in the way at all. DD isn't a household name like Batman, Spiderman or Superman where everyone already knows what's up and you could arguably skip it, and the way they handle it to sprinkle it in throughout the episodes which works really well.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 22:55 |
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Boogaleeboo posted:She's not Chinese at all in the story, and he's basically a giant toddler that could rip people in half. Who the gently caress is going to give them poo poo about how they talk? ?? Pretty sure she is Chinese in the show.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 22:57 |
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Rurutia posted:?? Pretty sure she is Chinese in the show. She specifically isn't. 1x13 spoiler - She tells Owlsley that she's going home. He says, "to China?" She says "somewhere much further away than that."
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 23:01 |
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BrianWilly posted:Goonish musing on language: D'Onofrio Oh drat, I wish you were in my shoes and cringe every time they try to speak Spanish, I always give a pass on the characters that are American, but when you have characters that are supposed to be naturally fluent I go extremely but then I just pretend they are like second or third, or whatever generation and they can't speak the language at all. And by the way, Cárdenas was being wrong pronounced the whole time. *spoilers tags just in case. I wonder if the Russian was well spoken, or had the same flaws.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 23:04 |
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Watch this scene, its one of the best fight scenes in the history of cinema. That was pretty bad rear end but I actually liked the DD episode 2 fight better. Is my Taxi Driver comparison out of bounds? I havn't seen anyone else compare it to that.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 23:05 |
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mikeraskol posted:She specifically isn't. 1x13 spoiler - She tells Owlsley that she's going home. He says, "to China?" She says "somewhere much further away than that." I took that to mean that she's just being cryptic and is actually talking about some secret shady ninja place, not that she's just from Australia or something. Desperado Bones posted:I wonder if the Russian was well spoken, or had the same flaws. It was good for the most part, because they got actual Russian speakers. The big exception was Vladimir's brother who was obviously not a native speaker, but still did a decent job, ie: you could understand what he was saying.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 23:05 |
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1x03 (I think) I'm surprised with all of the "kingpin's suit" talk, nobody has mentioned Vanessa's description of her previous suitor who showed up in a white suit and an ascot. "That seems a bit much."
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 23:08 |
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Gilok posted:1x03 (I think) 1x05 I think. I laughed.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 23:11 |
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dj_clawson posted:Daredevil clearly takes place in an alternate reality Hells' Kitchen. I know this was a couple pages back, but this made me laugh so hard.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 23:15 |
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VDay posted:I took that to mean that she's just being cryptic and is actually talking about some secret shady ninja place, not that she's just from Australia or something. She's from K'un L'un, or...Feng-Tu? I'm not really big on Iron Fist lore, but she's otherworldly and her heroin is called Silver Dragon(and has the Silver Dragon symbol), who's an Iron Fist villian. She might not even be human. Also, ninjas are Japanese, Leland.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 23:17 |
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# ? May 16, 2024 19:11 |
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BiggerBoat posted:That was pretty bad rear end but I actually liked the DD episode 2 fight better. Is my Taxi Driver comparison out of bounds? I havn't seen anyone else compare it to that. Steven DeKnight, the head showrunner, said Taxi Driver was a specific influence on that scene, along with Old Boy and the Raid movies.
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# ? Apr 12, 2015 23:19 |