Accretionist posted:

I wish cops would stop breaking the law.

Amos Moses posted:

People keep saying that police need to stop shooting people.

Should be more people saying "Don't loving run from the cops" and "stop breaking the law"

Ghost of Reagan Past posted:

Violent crime rates (and crime rates generally) have been dropping for nearly 25 years now, so yes, people are breaking the law in fewer numbers than ever before.

chitoryu12 posted:

I looked at some of the sample questions on the Florida one. It's literally testing on middle school knowledge. It asked how to spell "phenomenal" and how to add fractions.

My Rhythmic Crotch posted:

Two people shot and killed, 2 year old child hit by car and killed as well. This just popped, very few details available.

Dead Reckoning posted:

Like most civil service exams then.

nm posted:

Not sure how this relates? The cops didn't kill them.

Agrajag posted:

Do they also involve the carrying of lethal firearms day to day?

Rent-A-Cop posted:

The point of the exam is to assess whether a candidate has the basic skills required to be trained.

They are all basically: "Did you pay attention in high school? Y/N"

Agrajag posted:

Perhaps a more rigorous selection process is needed for an occupation involving the carrying and operating of lethal firearms. Beyond the basic of are you retarded or not.

Dead Reckoning posted:

That's what the interviews, Academy, background checks, and polygraph are supposed to be for. They don't hand you a Glock and a shield on your way out the door if your civil service score cracked the 85th percentile.

My Rhythmic Crotch posted:

I apologize - I literally convinced myself it was a police shooting. Time to go to bed.

Agrajag posted:

What I'm trying to say is that the police in your country are a loving danger to the public. Especially if you are not white.

Agrajag posted:

Yeah clearly those are all a joke and useless as all gently caress. Oh, and don't forget that some random old fucker with money can buy his way into playing cops and robbers.

What I'm trying to say is that the police in your country are a loving danger to the public. Especially if you are not white.

Dead Reckoning posted:

I don't think making sure every deputy has a 1600 () on the SAT would improve law enforcement in this country

FRINGE posted:

Pretty sure it would at least improve it.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836
http://www.aele.org/apa/jordan-newlondon.html

Dead Reckoning posted:

"Yes, if only more people who are good at ScanTron tests were walking around with guns.

Dead Reckoning posted:

Clearly they are the better sort of person we want cleaning up our streets."

Dead Reckoning posted:

The reason the department instituted the upper limit was because they didn't want their patrol officers to have the same turnover rate as McDonalds cashiers..

FRINGE posted:

Yes that is exactly what people think.

FRINGE posted:

I have read the same thing several times over several years. Unlike you I dont believe it.

Dead Reckoning posted:

You don't believe that the most qualified officers are likely to jump ship to better paying, more prestigious gigs with State and Federal agencies if given the opportunity?

To some complete idiot stranger, Ray Smuckles made and rear end of himself when he posted:

In response this gem, of all gems:
clackdwack
1 month ago
Cops doing their jobs, stupid people who resist should get bashed, do the crime do the time, to all u scum bags out there who are low life's, jail or get shot 👍👍


+clackdwack
1) Cops doing their jobs.
I completely agree that this is what regular police behavior is like. This is the level of violence police are trained to use to force compliance from a resisting suspect. Look at the officer doing the punching. These do not seem to be the products of an emotional outburst indicating some sort of lack of control in the officer; but, rather the cold, mechanical punches of learned training. Notice how the officer quickly loses enthusiasm as he notices the people around him, and their abject disapproval. Yet, he still punches; softer and slower, then sporadically and hidden. You could say the officer failed to perform his duty by giving in to public scrutiny and lessening his restraint of the subject. This incident indicates the divide between pubic perception of police practices and actual police practices.

2) Stupid people who resist should get bashed.
I will be upfront here: there is absolutely a place for forced compliance within certain avenues of police work. However, to me personally, as well as what appear to be numerous other people, including eyewitnesses of the incident, there seems to be an excessive use of force with regards to handling of this incident. I, and all citizens of towns, counties, states, and countries, have a right to express my opinions regarding the actions and functions of public institutions as well as the public servants that work within them. There seems to be a growing consensus that the use of force within law enforcement is becoming oppressive to the citizenry, and while everyone agrees that there is a place for use of force, there is also a place for patience, understanding, and non-violent tactics.

There is also a place in our society for non-violent resistance. Non-violent refusal to comply with a police officer is not an offense immediately deserving of corporal punishment or forced compliance. It may be embarrassing, demeaning, or emasculating, but it is a police officer's job to obey and uphold the law. The judicial system exists to administer punishment; to which, if you would like to make an argument for judicially administered corporal punishment then that is an argument you have to make.

In addition, use of force on mentally ill people, or people who's cognitive faculties are impaired by substance use is often the worst possible course of action, as an irrational mind will not comprehend the situation and immediately rely on more base instincts; typically fight or flight. Officers should be responsible for making peaceful, compliant arrests, which can be achieved, even among highly emotional suspects, given proper training, preparation, and patience

3) Do the crime do the crime
I'll admit, it was the sequence of point 2 and point 3 that inspired me to write this entire tome; so if you stuck with it, here's the point. First you advocate corporal punishment as a means of punishment for the crime of "resisting arrest," but then you admit that there is already a judicial system in place and list the punishment as "do the time," implying that the proper punishment for criminal behavior isincarceration. You are arguing that physical punishment should be included as a means of sentencing for criminals, but not only that, but it should be used on suspected criminals as well so long as they "resist" any violent provocation by law enforcement. The dignity or honor of the individual to submit to the will of the state is not at stake when violence is unexpectedly thrust upon them by officers trained to resort to physical force in order to gain control and compliance. To imply there is some sort of duty for criminals to submit to the will of law enforcement is absurd.

We are all humans, not robots, we respond to stimuli in a multitude of ways, none of which can be considered objectively "correct," and when it comes to resisting violence, pain, and suffering; those are most likely the strongest most base instincts we have as living creatures. To ask people to submit to extreme violence without any attempt to protect themselves is an impossible request. As for the responsibility of criminals who have perpetrated crimes to confess and submit to judicial punishment, I admit it is a noble, inspiring idea. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. It must be acknowledged that a) people naturally try to get out of trouble, b) this must be accounted for when creating a law enforcement system, and c) we, as a population, do not want a world where all crimes go 100% punished, since we realize as a civilized society, that almost all actions are circumstantial, and while we must apply the same standards to everyone once they've stepped foot in the courtroom, it would be detrimental to hold the world's population to the strict, often contradictory standards of flawed human lawmakers. There is an invisible, narrow line that separates policing from oppressing, and while challenging, it the role of our public servants to address these issues; as well as, the responsibility of the citizenry to hold pubic officials accountable for their actions.

In addition, incarceration is a vastly superior system of punishment in comparison to corporal, as it non-violently punishes the offender, protects the public from potentially violent individuals, and provides and opportunity for rehabilitation, an important step in reducing recidivism, producing better citizens, and helping the offender address personal issues. So we're in agreement. Do the crime, do the time.

4) To all you scumbags out there who are low life's, jail or get shot(thumbs up thumbs up).
Based upon my brief encounter with you, thirty-two words, two thumbs up emoticons, and some name that hints at an attempt at humor, I think you are a scumbag and a low life; and while I don't necessarily advocate the same recourse you do, I do have opinions on what should be done with someone like you. How can you and I, as a functioning society, reconcile our differences, and work together to improve not only our own lots, but also each others? How do we find a common ground where we can coexist, not as isolated and semi-tolerant; but rather, as a collaborative, interwoven society? Now how do we do that multiplied by one hundred? Multiplied by a million? Surprise, we're not even at the population of the United States yet.

This is a complicated subject, with no easy answers. One of the few things consistent among all people is the golden rule: treat others as you would like to be treated. This means, that as a citizen it is your duty to empathetic with your fellow citizens and try to imagine yourself in their shoes during an encounter with law enforcement. Did this officer handle this person the way you would like them to handle you? If it were you in some sort of compromising situation, how best do you think the police should handle it? Compassion and empathy are the higher forms of thought. Collaboration, peace, and compassion are the building blocks of society. You can either serve truth and justice, or privilege and power. Courage means doing the right thing, even in the face of the impossible. It is the responsibility of the good to lead by example and suffer the hardships of doing the right thing in order to continue making this world a better place for ourselves and future generations.

FRINGE posted:

Many adults (especially with families) are not extremely willing to relocate unless they are under duress. I am sure the pressure to leave would be greater in the cow tipping areas that are paying 12-15/hr for full time LEOs, but not so much in areas that are paying 50-70k/yr+. That is a problem with the payscales - not a reason to purposefully exclude intelligent people from the loving career.

FourLeaf posted:

Something about how they scream at the dead/dying guy to "put their hands behind their back" and cuff them even if they're a corpse really pisses me off.

Maybe because it really emphasizes that the whole "COMPLY, CITIZEN" mentality really is all that matters, even after the person is loving dead. I don't know, it's just enraging to me.

Dead Reckoning posted:

Pohl posted:

Cops are actually good and we like them. There are some structural problems, though. We need to address those structural problems. This isn't just gently caress the police, this is a conversation about how things need to be improved. Can we at least agree on that issue?

knife super power posted:

Sorry, looking through this thread, not sure if this has been posted yet http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/04/10/3645844/11-police-punched-unarmed-man-37-times-lay-face-ground/

quote:

The municipal court systems in which Bailey was entangled generate a huge amount of revenue by ticketing people just like him: Calverton Park, where nearly one-quarter of the population lives below the poverty line, collects 66 percent of its general revenue from court fines and fees; Vinita Terrace, where close to 20 percent of residents live under the poverty line, brings home close to 60 percent of its revenue in fines and fees; and Normandy, with 35 percent of its residents living in poverty, collects just north of 40 percent of its revenue in fines and fees.
...
Predatory ticketing practices in some of the county’s majority-poor, black neighborhoods range from the egregious to the Dickensian. Thomas Harvey, one of the co-founders of ArchCity Defenders, a St. Louis nonprofit law firm that represents indigent and low-income clients, described a case that has yet to be verified by court and police records, with a client who says she called police to report domestic abuse against her boyfriend and child’s father. When the police arrived at her apartment, she says they ran her license and discovered that she had warrants on unpaid traffic tickets. Instead of arresting her abuser, the woman claims the police arrested her and left her two-year-old child at home, alone, with her boyfriend.
“So why would that woman ever call the police?” Harvey wondered. “If you can’t even call the police when you’re reporting domestic violence because of fear that you’re going to be arrested for a traffic ticket, why would you ever call?”
...
Edmundson, where nearly one-fifth of the population lives below the poverty level, collects almost 35 percent of its general revenue from court fines and fees. Ticketing was such an important part of the town’s income that the mayor distributed a friendly note in some police officers’ paychecks, reminding them: “The tickets that you write do add to the revenue on which the P.D. budget is established and will directly affect pay adjustments at budget time.”.

Murderion posted:

From a link there, more from St Louis: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/04/10/3643582/worse-ferguson-week-st-louis-countys-egregious-night-courts/

Agrajag posted:

Perhaps a more rigorous selection process is needed for an occupation involving the carrying and operating of lethal firearms. Beyond the basic of are you retarded or not.

Spacman posted:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/13/u...v=top-news&_r=0

The whitewash begins...

Killstick posted:

That article reads like he was some famous author who just died after a long struggle with cancer. I like the little side note with a few factoids about the victim, lest we forget he exists.

Pohl posted:

Cops are actually good and we like them. There are some structural problems, though. We need to address those structural problems. This isn't just gently caress the police, this is a conversation about how things need to be improved. Can we at least agree on that issue?

Dead Reckoning posted:

Except for those exposed to it through family connections, local law enforcement isn't most [cop's] first career choice.

quote:

...less than median wage.

Dead Reckoning posted:

I agree with you, but I think a lot of posters in this thread can't even describe what realistic vision of "good" policing in America would look like, (aside from "fewer dead minorities" and "more like Europe"), what causes the systemic problems we have, or how we should go about fixing them.

Witness the argument I just had about the civil service exam. Aside from the highly questionable assumption that people with higher SAT scores are better, more mature, and smarter than those with lower scores, no one thought about or bothered to address the fact that relying on high standardized test scores is likely to further exclude minority applicants. It's outrage without being able to actually articulate the problem or propose reasonable alternatives.

Radbot posted:

Bullshit, let me know if you want to see the data. Of course, the fact that most of these officers have fully-paid healthcare and defined **BENEFIT** pensions factors into that, as well. The fact remains that most police officers are paid above the median wages of their communities, sometimes significantly more (see southern California departments that hand out OT like candy).