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Frijolero posted:I don't just vote Jill Stein, I actually ran for office under the Green Party. Huge loser right?? You ran for office under the green party, so I'm going to guess yes. Huge loser.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:13
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Hollismason posted:Democrats and Republicans are never ever ever ever ever ever going to split as parties. it's just not going to happen. However the mainstream positions of the parties can change dramatically. See the tea party.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:15
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The green party opposes nuclear power and is thus equal to wanting minority children to suffer from air pollution.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:15
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Frijolero posted:I actually ran for office under the Green Party. Huge loser right?? Well, since you say "ran" rather than "served" I would guess that by definition you are a literal loser, in the sense that you lost
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Apr 13, 2015 19:16
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Frijolero posted:I don't just vote Jill Stein, I actually ran for office under the Green Party. Huge loser right?? Have fun voting for Hillary "Welp I Guess I Have To" Rodham Clinton Ran, as in lost. Frijolero posted:Good luck with life loser. Hollismason posted:I thought that The Green Party at this point was taken over by really insane people, like the opposite of the Tea Party. Youre right, they arent. The only way to change anything is for people to run, and more importantly than just feel like they are activists or something, WIN at the state level NATIONWIDE. Not just in the Pacific Northwest, not just on the hicksville town council. The Greens have never showed any unified movement and have always had awful party leadership, they are a dead end.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:16
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We live in the evil empire. We are the Fire Nation of the modern world. We suck, and we kill people a lot. The country is essentially an oligarchy, and it's just a matter of which oligarch. That doesn't change the fact that Republicans in 2015 are not just evil, but stupid and short-sighted to a degree that would seem totally unrealistic if it weren't reality, and which will bring the US closer to the brink of Total World War than any Democrat.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:16
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Hollismason posted:Yeah if you want to see the Civil Rights act completely dismantled vote 3rd party, let a Republican become president and you count the minutes until we're hosed. It must really piss everyone off here when all the non-regulars that show up have some terrible, counterproductive ideas like voting third party. It's almost as if they don't understand the existential horror of the Democrats losing the one branch of government left to them to veto and prevent the GOP from destroying America. So, you need to teach people terror then; it's the best motivator you've got left to you. Let's get some real, grade A fearmongering going, Fox News Style. It's not like you can point to the Democratic platform or candidate and find stuff to get people excited or positive about. GalacticAcid posted:I thought we agreed that accelerationism was to be put in another thread, at the kids' table. You may believe this is "kids' table" stuff, but I hope that condescension kills you. Like it or not, the Republicans have an accelerationist platform, and they are actively working to destroy America, under the fundamental lie in their grand narrative that their policies MUST be the best for America. They are exactly wrong. Your problem is that people who don't sit in forums like this do not understand why the GOP is pushing such radical changes, but they have heard that both parties are the same, and that Obama's not that great. Plus it's the GOP's turn. Look, your only hope is that Hillary wins; you literally have all your remaining eggs in one basket. This isn't kids' table bullshit; your nation, as you know it, is literally being wagered against the odds that the GOP won't manage to take the presidency. Look at the bills proposed by the current Congress, and imagine a guy with a rubber stamp hovering above them instead of a veto pen. You should be terrified not just about how you're bound to a single course of action with no recourse, but particularly about how few people are as scared as they should be. The acceleration will happen whether you like it or not, unless the left starts doing something completely different very soon.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:20
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I always feel like the Hillary apologist in these discussions but for all her being wrapped up in both neo-liberal foreign policy and corporate sponsored Third Way Democratic policy, her voting record as Senator was consistently progressive, she has supported a moderate but reasonable economic policy that opposes the same ad hoc cuts to taxes and spending, and her political influence within the legislature has the potential to be a boon, especially in immigration reform which she was a vocal proponent of long before Obama's DREAM initiative. She's a ruthless political operator but I think the same of Obama to be honest and I've never felt guilty voting for Barack Obama, even though I voted against him in the primary. I will also be voting against Hillary Clinton in the primary (I voted for Biden in 2008, and likely O'Malley this go around, so I must have a thing for doomed but not completely crazy left candidates), but I always find the idea that she is somehow this castor oil we have to drink because we have no choice is strange. She made a lot of horrible decisions last time which I don't think should be forgotten and I don't think she deserves the presidency, but I don't really see why one would use hypberole such as there being literally no redeeming features. She's a politician, so she's not as an individual likely to be a good person, but her positions are usually correct, she's good at what she does once she's in a position of power, and she has the means to win.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:22
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Hollismason posted:I thought that The Green Party at this point was taken over by really insane people, like the opposite of the Tea Party. It's not so much insane as it is stuck in the past, stuck in the 1970s really. Like mos tof their current proposals for environmental stuff haven't really changed despite the science changing, they're still pretending that all sorts of alternative "medicine" stuff that got real popular int he 60s and 70s and then has been reproved to be crap since is needed, and so on. You got decent views on the economy wedged in there but it doesn't really redeem poo poo.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:23
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mdemone posted:Theorem: absent external concerns (like living in a deep-blue state, etc.), voting third party is identical to not voting at all.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:23
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Rubio is running and I doubt anyone cares.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:24
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Babylon Astronaut posted:Most people do not live in a swing state. Third parties have the most to gain from increasing their share of the popular vote. The large, successful parties have the privilege of only focusing on the states they need to win the EC. No one is running a 50 state plan this year, or in the near future. When do you think a third party becomes nationally viable? 5% of a non-swing state's vote? 25%? What level of success is even possible for the Greens, just to take an example.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:25
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Hollismason posted:Yeah if you want to see the Civil Rights act completely dismantled vote 3rd party, let a Republican become president and you count the minutes until we're hosed. If you are in a safe Republican or safe Democratic state, and the race is widely understood to go to the incumbent, there is no harm in voting third party.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:25
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Does anyone have a concise, sober summary of things we could reasonably expect under three branches of GOP government? Like, illegal abortion? Privatized Social Security? Really? Posters are making it sound like I need to start building a bunker in the woods just in case Bush 2016 happens.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:27
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UV_Catastrophe posted:Does anyone have a concise, sober summary of things we could reasonably expect under three branches of GOP government? I don't think illegal abortion is on the table, but gradual privatization of social security definitely is.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:28
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UV_Catastrophe posted:Like, illegal abortion? Abortion gets less legal by the day, and Republicans are the ones driving that, and the next president will probably get to nominate a Supreme Court judge or two, so yes. I would not be surprised by that outcome. It would be functionally illegal and not actually illegal, because that's harder to fight against, but that is what many people want.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:28
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mdemone posted:When do you think a third party becomes nationally viable? When one of the 2 main parties collapses without being able to switch over a significant share of the opposing party's base. The last time that happened was the 1850s. Juvenalian.Satyr posted:I don't think illegal abortion is on the table, but gradual privatization of social security definitely is. George W Bush couldn't get private social security with both houses of Congress and a war on to garner support.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:29
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Nintendo Kid posted:When one of the 2 main parties collapses without being able to switch over a significant share of the opposing party's base. And then we had a civil war right after. It doesn't bode well when poo poo gets that out of control.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:30
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Juvenalian.Satyr posted:I don't think illegal abortion is on the table It is if Justice Ginsburg is replaced with Justice John Yoo. Repeal of Roe v. Wade largely hasn't happened yet because Kennedy still likes the idea of stare decisis. I seem to recall that there are four firm votes otherwise.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:31
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Juvenalian.Satyr posted:I don't think illegal abortion is on the table, but gradual privatization of social security definitely is. The stage we're at where liberals admit: "There are some hard truths we need to understand about social security, and covering our eyes and ears won't change that." It's hosed in the long run, because people have been convinced it's hosed.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:31
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Nonsense posted:The stage we're at where liberals admit: "There are some hard truths we need to understand about social security, and covering our eyes and ears won't change that." you mean the stage where you increase the cap and tell the rich to deal with it before they get guillotined?
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Apr 13, 2015 19:32
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showbiz_liz posted:And then we had a civil war right after. It doesn't bode well when poo poo gets that out of control. We didn't have that when the collapse happened that led to the Whigs taking major party status a few decades prior to that though.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:32
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ComradeCosmobot posted:It is if Justice Ginsburg is replaced with Justice John Yoo. Repeal of Roe v. Wade largely hasn't happened yet because Kennedy still likes the idea of stare decisis. I seem to recall that there are four firm votes otherwise. I don't think Roberts or Alito have explicitly endorsed overturning it.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:34
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joeburz posted:you mean the stage where you increase the cap and tell the rich to deal with it before they get guillotined? Taxation is theft friend.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:35
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UV_Catastrophe posted:Does anyone have a concise, sober summary of things we could reasonably expect under three branches of GOP government? I would simply look at the bills and amendments being currently proposed by the Republican-controlled House and Senate. We're talking about Obamacare repeals, the selling off of public lands, privatization of Social Security, massive tax cuts for the rich, like the recent attempt to repeal the estate tax... These are all a matter of record, but please, everyone correct any of these that they haven't proposed, and add other horrible things that I missed. Just imagine them writing all these bills, and then having a president to stamp them legal, and very soon, a Supreme Court that will toe the GOP line. Why is this so surprising? The Tea Party and the GOP have put their ideas right out there in broad daylight! Just read the legislative agenda of ALEC and see what you're headed for. You know it's a fact they are holding majorities in both houses, and the only thing stopping them is Obama's veto pen. People love to make fun of me as an accelerationist, but you either care enough to start rioting in the streets, amping up the game against the GOP death cult, or you act like we're still playing a fair game within the rules, and hope to hell that you win every presidential election for the next 8-16 years. Lose once, and all the ALEC stuff becomes law. Nintendo Kid posted:When one of the 2 main parties collapses without being able to switch over a significant share of the opposing party's base. That was before Obama and the birth of the Tea Party. The GOP is MOTIVATED as gently caress to pass their hosed up policies, and have shown on the gubernatorial level that they will unironically put as many of their policies into practice as possible. Just look at Walker, Brownback, and Scott... Look at North Carolina. They are furious and they want revenge, and they are increasingly unified by sharing the same mega-donors like the Kochs. Quidam Viator fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Apr 13, 2015 |
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Apr 13, 2015 19:37
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Nintendo Kid posted:We didn't have that when the collapse happened that led to the Whigs taking major party status a few decades prior to that though. It's weird to think that when that happened, the entire US population was about the same as Shanghai's is right now.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:37
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UV_Catastrophe posted:Does anyone have a concise, sober summary of things we could reasonably expect under three branches of GOP government? There would be a lot of talk about allowing "private retirement accounts" as an opt-in alternative to standard social security, which if implemented would slowly erode the original program to the point of insolvency, which if it happened under the same structure would result in the GOP-controlled government triumphantly pointing out how government can't do anything right and transforming the remainder over to the privatized system. Simultaneously, this is throwing gobs of money into the marketplace where private management firms would siphon much of it off through various fees and whatnot. When inevitably the next big crash comes along, the companies managing this will of course have to be bailed out by taxpayer funds of course.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:38
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Look to Indiana or Wisconsin, I suppose, if you want to see Republicans in charge and what might be nationally. Barely veiled anti-LGBT RFRA laws, union busting, education slashing, and Indiana just recently sentenced a woman to 20 years in prison for a miscarriage ("feticide").
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Apr 13, 2015 19:42
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Using the word "global" next to "warming" or "climate" next to "change" punishable by 20 years in federal prison.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:47
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I'll start ordering concrete for that bunker then, I suppose.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:50
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UV_Catastrophe posted:Does anyone have a concise, sober summary of things we could reasonably expect under three branches of GOP government? This is the leftist equivalent to "HUSSAIN OBAMA THE MOST MARXIST MUSLIM EVER".
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Apr 13, 2015 19:54
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Yeah but when Bush was in office you didn't have literal crazy people in control of the momentum of the Republican party. Right now though having a Republican president, then having a conservative Supreme Court. That'd be almost all 3 Branches of Government under the control of the Republican party. At least with Bush you didn't have all of it be all encompassing. I mean did you read Paul Ryans budget? It's insane town. This is what you could have with a fully Republican party in control Obamacare - Gone, but Federally mandated health insurance required. They'll remove the pre-existing condition clause. Keep it like it is currently as that's good for business. Higher Education - Pell Grants gone , most lower income grants removed. Student Loans turned over completely to Private companies. SNAP and EBT benefits - Reduced to pretty much nothing or at least by a couple of 10s of billions of dollars Civil Rights acts - Impedes on Business, not good. Removed completely. That's just the start. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Apr 13, 2015 |
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Apr 13, 2015 19:54
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UV_Catastrophe posted:I'll start ordering concrete for that bunker then, I suppose. Just think about how badly John McCain could have hosed up the Ukraine situation. Then order some iodine tablets.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:55
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Just think about how badly John McCain could have hosed up the Ukraine situation. Then order some iodine tablets. Would he have met with Eastern Partisans and demand Obama to start supplying arms against the Nazis in Kiev?
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Apr 13, 2015 19:57
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I really hope Jeb runs the hell away from the culture war poo poo in the general, that stuff is annoying, I'd rather hear arguments over Hillary dodging gun fire in Sarajevo.
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Apr 13, 2015 19:57
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Gravel Gravy posted:Would he have met with Eastern Partisans and demand Obama to start supplying arms against the Nazis in Kiev? I.e., if he (or Palin)/were president instead or Obama.
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Apr 13, 2015 20:00
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Hollismason posted:
Not to nitpick, but I really think you mean Scott Walker, not deceased Fast and Furious actor Paul Walker.
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Apr 13, 2015 20:00
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oldswitcheroo posted:Not to nitpick, but I really think you mean Scott Walker, not deceased Fast and Furious actor Paul Walker. I like it better his way.
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Apr 13, 2015 20:02
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It's possible that the Republicans could come into control of all 3 branches of Government which is what's scary. I don't want 2 more conservative Supreme Court Judges.oldswitcheroo posted:Not to nitpick, but I really think you mean Scott Walker, not deceased Fast and Furious actor Paul Walker. Paul Walkers budget was pretty insane, just explosions everywhere all the time and actually I meant Paul Ryan.
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Apr 13, 2015 20:02
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mdemone posted:When do you think a third party becomes nationally viable? 5% of a non-swing state's vote? 25%? What level of success is even possible for the Greens, just to take an example.
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Apr 13, 2015 20:05
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