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Wezlar posted:I want to play X-Wing Regionals and I need a 100 point build. WHAT DO I NEED TO BUY TO WIN Hello friend, you should buy a falcon and 3 z-95s.  actually just buy 2 IG-88s and run wild with the 88 theme 
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Apr 14, 2015 14:58
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Chill la Chill posted:Hello friend, you should buy a falcon and 3 z-95s. OH GOD WHICH ADVICE IS THE GOOD ADVICE
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Apr 14, 2015 15:06
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Ramos posted:You should play Judge Tower.
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Apr 14, 2015 15:07
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Errant Gin Monks posted:I known and normally I so led let some nog like that slide and say it's cool. But if you miss enough triggers I'm going to get fed up sooner or later. I used to miss them all the time and people saying "No start paying attention" really made me pay attention and work out a system to prevent it.
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Apr 14, 2015 15:25
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Take backs at FNM between players is fairly common and as a judge I will usually, say, let someone get a may trigger that they sequenced incorrectly with. The point is to teach, though. If that same player keeps making the same mistake, or they knew that it was a may and they should have played it when they didn't, I'd leave it up to their opponent and advise against giving them the spell/trigger. If a player is saying - yes, I know I should have done it this way but I forgot, or arguing that they should get it because it's regular REL, I'd have the cheating talk. Players trying to play like it's the kitchen table are a real problem for any event with prizes on the line. If either player has significantly more play experience than the other, they could easily gain an unfair advantage between takebacks, “accidental” extra cards, or any number of actions inappropriate at any REL. You can easily have a tournament where matches are being decided by who can engineer the most advantageous social situation rather than who can play Magic the best.
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Apr 14, 2015 15:36
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Chill la Chill posted:And people are this petty and anal about cardboard wizards at an FNM level. I'd actually like to visit these places you guys talk about that have substantial FNM rewards. I've been to a lot of places and the most you'd get is 15-20bux of store credit with a perfect record. Yeah sure piss in your own pool and make little timmy not come back. I've let kids at prerelease take back bad blocks knowing that I would lose the match on the next turn because of it. But our legacy FNMs are extremely top heavy (box/3/3/3 packs is the usual unless we get more people than normal) so I'm probably not letting you take back your bad plays when the difference between winning this round is half a box from splitting the next round and maybe getting 3 packs if I win the next round. If we're in the 1/1 bracket we're playing for 3 packs maybe, whatever, but if there's any real prizes on the line I'm holding you to your choices. I don't expect anyone to let me take back my screw-ups either, and I don't ask. I'm not sure where the line is. I'm not ever going to rules lawyer a kid with a 60-card draft deck, for example, but I'll definitely rules lawyer someone for a box. I almost got a shame scoop this Saturday by "rules lawyering" my semifinals opponent. Game 3 vs. ANT, he's dead on board. He skipped/missed his Carpet of Flowers trigger first main, then tried to use that mana to cast a PiF'd Dark Ritual. The look of panic he got when I told him he didn't have any mana floating was great. Unfortunately someone told him he could go to his 2nd main to trigger the Carpet, rather than giving the Oracle text and letting him figure it out.* It didn't end up mattering because I had done a good job of constraining his mana, including Wasting my own land to get myself down to 1 Island, and he ended up needing 1 more mana to go off. In this case, the difference between winning and losing was almost $175, so you better believe I was going to take every advantage I could get. I needed that money to buy my 4th Mishra's Workshop. *Please don't give outside advice guys. Seriously, it's been happening to me a lot lately. I would have been extremely unhappy if I'd lost because of this.
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Apr 14, 2015 15:46
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I mean like the problem with being slopfest at magic is people angle shoot by pretending to be sloppy. Basically cheaters ruin everything and should be banned forever so we can be more trusting of non-cheaters who just wanna have fun. As far as being exacting on precise play from the opponent players at the highest level of magic occupy both ends of the spectrum. Like there's the stories of how Kenji Tsumura would famously go out of his way to make sure his opponents paid for their pacts at GPs and PTs. Zoness fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 15:57
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suicidesteve posted:*Please don't give outside advice guys. Seriously, it's been happening to me a lot lately. I would have been extremely unhappy if I'd lost because of this. Call for a judge (if you have one) who should warn them at Regular REL and give them a Match Loss at Comp REL. Madmarker posted:That looks like a hell of a lot of fun. I need to find a group of people who play that. Half of the fun is going through your bulk rares and working out which cards are going to completely gently caress people. Got a Strionic Resonator sat on my desk ready to contribute 
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Apr 14, 2015 15:59
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I tend not to allow takebacks at FNM or any vaguely competitive setting, outside of a prerelease. If we play casually, thats another matter, I don't care. However, I enjoy the competitive nature, I don't enjoy being given takebacks in games where something, no matter how minor, is on the line. In a competition I find it insulting to be offered a takeback and demeaning to ask for one and I won't insult other people by offering or doing the same. A prize lets me enjoy playing to win. I like playing to win, and I like outplaying and outsmarting people. When a prize is on the line, I can allow myself to indulge in that behavior, to enjoy exploiting weird rules interactions, and to capitalize on the play errors of my opponent. Not making play errors is a skill in magic, and FNM is a competition where I can test my skill against local players. A lot of the fun is gone if I allow people takebacks, or if I am given them. Win or Lose the competition is whats most important and fun to me. In casual play, where I'm there to bullshit with friends using the card game as a conversation generator, than I couldn't give a gently caress less about takebacks. Takeback whatever mistake you made, I don't care. I'm playing to enjoy your company and talk about this awesome game, and I don't really care about winning. In casual play, sure I'll bust out my Whelming Wave Coiling Oracle silly casual deck and have fun with 187 creatures. And if you forget to play a land, I'll go ahead and let you, but if there is money at the table, even if its a single dollar, I'm going to hold you to every play you made, as you should to me. mfcrocker posted:Half of the fun is going through your bulk rares and working out which cards are going to completely gently caress people. Got a Strionic Resonator sat on my desk ready to contribute Oh I have a whole bunch of cards I am putting in there. I already have a humilty, an opalesence and a tempting wurm ready to go Madmarker fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 16:03
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Zoness posted:I mean like the problem with being slopfest at magic is people angle shoot by pretending to be sloppy. This is true too. As much as I rag on magic as a love-hate thing, it does an important service and keeps the desire for ~fame and money~ and sweet expensive cardboard alive. This means that I will never have to worry about these types of players in x-wing or board game nights or LCGs since magic keeps a nice corral. 40k does a fine job of taking care of the miniatures grogs too. suicidesteve posted:I've let kids at prerelease take back bad blocks knowing that I would lose the match on the next turn because of it. But our legacy FNMs are extremely top heavy (box/3/3/3 packs is the usual unless we get more people than normal) so I'm probably not letting you take back your bad plays when the difference between winning this round is half a box from splitting the next round and maybe getting 3 packs if I win the next round.  do you just get that many players or are your entry fees sky high? I've always personally preferred the less steep, more evenly spread prize support. Even when I win, I'd rather everyone get more of everything instead.
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Apr 14, 2015 16:07
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mfcrocker posted:Call for a judge (if you have one) who should warn them at Regular REL and give them a Match Loss at Comp REL. It was the semifinals and the advice came from someone who was already out of the tournament. There's nothing to be done at that point except for tell the person not to do it unfortunately. I know the guy who said it and I'm sure it wasn't intentional; he was just summarizing what the card does. Unfortunately he did so in a way that gave my opponent information that he might not have been able to get from the Oracle text. Chill la Chill posted:
$10 per person. 8 people is 27/3/3/3, 10 is box/3/3/3, and it goes up from there. They don't actually make money on tournaments. I like the top-heavy prizes because winning actually feels like winning. The other store I occasionally go to has similar prizes but spread out over the top half instead of 4. It's much less interesting when the prizes are like, 10/8/5/5/3/3. Even if I 3/0 split or 4/0 I'm getting less than half of what I'd get for 2/0 split or 3/0 split at the other store. suicidesteve fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 16:09
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suicidesteve posted:It was the semifinals and the advice came from someone who was already out of the tournament. There's nothing to be done at that point except for tell the person not to do it unfortunately. I know the guy who said it and I'm sure it wasn't intentional; he was just summarizing what the card does. Unfortunately he did so in a way that gave my opponent information that he might not have been able to get from the Oracle text. Whenever this happens (and it does), I just look at the guy and tell them not to comment on a game they're not in. They usually get embarrassed enough to get the point.
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Apr 14, 2015 16:20
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How do you guys feel about playing a land and then immediately changing your mind and trying to play a different one before anything else has happened? It's such a harmless thing that I don't mind it when people do it (or I do it, for that matter), and I don't actually know if there's a specific rule about it.
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Apr 14, 2015 16:25
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Doesn't matter, go ahead. You're giving away free info anyway.
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Apr 14, 2015 16:26
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Mr. Peepers posted:How do you guys feel about playing a land and then immediately changing your mind and trying to play a different one before anything else has happened? It's such a harmless thing that I don't mind it when people do it (or I do it, for that matter), and I don't actually know if there's a specific rule about it. At any competition I would not allow that takeback. You should have planned out your turn before dropping the land, you jumping the gun is not on me to correct. However, at the casual table, sure, whatever, go nuts.
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Apr 14, 2015 16:29
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I do tell someone if they've made a sequencing error at FNM-level but I generally won't punish them for it. I guess I don't care enough about maybe getting one additional junk rare. e: this is assuming they aren't gaining any advantage off the mistake. Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 16:30
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Mr. Peepers posted:How do you guys feel about playing a land and then immediately changing your mind and trying to play a different one before anything else has happened? It's such a harmless thing that I don't mind it when people do it (or I do it, for that matter), and I don't actually know if there's a specific rule about it. My policy for pretty much any rules gently caress up is that if you do it once or twice by accident at FNM or a saturday afternoon tournament or if we're cubing or whatever I don't care and will let you take it back. If you do it multiple times in a match (or every time we play) I will probably say something.
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Apr 14, 2015 16:35
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suicidesteve posted:*Please don't give outside advice guys. Seriously, it's been happening to me a lot lately. I would have been extremely unhappy if I'd lost because of this. I had a friend lose a game because someone accidentally told his opponent that she had a card she had kinda forgotten about. Kinda weird case (she was about to scoop) but he was still not happy about it.
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Apr 14, 2015 16:37
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Re: Rules strictness at FNM vs a Prerelease Generally I'm more forgiving at a prerelease because I'm often playing against casual/kitchen table players with new and unfamiliar cards, so obviously I'm not expecting consistent play, though I've never gone as far as to point out unprofitable blocks (I'll usually ask to confirm that they are indeed attacking with x creatures, though). When it comes to FNM, I'll point out that the untap step occurs before upkeep and offer dice to place on an opponent's deck when they use Rebound, etc., but if something happens like they cast a spell with Eidolon of the Great Revel out - especially if I've explicitly given them the card to hold and read before they do anything else - and forgot to use a burn or removal spell on the Eidolon first so as to reduce damage, I won't allow a re-do the first time around (though post-match I'll often talk with a newer player about better plays, etc., and remind them about Eidolon as a teaching moment). I hope that doesn't make me a monster. 
bhsman fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 16:41
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suicidesteve posted:It was the semifinals and the advice came from someone who was already out of the tournament. There's nothing to be done at that point except for tell the person not to do it unfortunately. I know the guy who said it and I'm sure it wasn't intentional; he was just summarizing what the card does. Unfortunately he did so in a way that gave my opponent information that he might not have been able to get from the Oracle text. Even if they're not part of the tournament (either out or never played in it) there's stuff that can be done. At both RELs the judge can ask them to leave the venue (ideally in partnership with the TO) and at Competitive REL you should still issue them a Match Loss so that there's a record of it (if they're a non-player, you register them, issue a ML and drop them). That said yeah, a stern word from either the players or a judge should get them to shut up.
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Apr 14, 2015 16:43
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The rules regarding Regular REL and mistakes and fixes are really well thought out and give players a lot of leeway, It's great you guys are more flexible in what you allow opponents to take back but I can't believe so many of you think its scummy to have a baseline rule that effectively say stuff like "you can't reorder blockers after a combat trick or try to catch a trigger from 3 steps ago" Seriously, it's a very low standard, its also not binding, you're completely free to let your opponent have as many take backs as you like. You guys are pretending like its the old Pro Tour days where you could get a DQ for playing a spell before tapping your lands or something. Regular REL Rules are a super forgiving environment if you want to be more forgiving, great, but someone isn't a jerk or an rear end in a top hat for asking you to play at that very low standard man, just play by the rules.
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Apr 14, 2015 16:49
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Ciprian Maricon posted:The rules regarding Regular REL and mistakes and fixes are really well thought out and give players a lot of leeway, It's great you guys are more flexible in what you allow opponents to take back but I can't believe so many of you think its scummy to have a baseline rule that effectively say stuff like "you can't reorder blockers after a combat trick or try to catch a trigger from 3 steps ago" I've known grinders who would strictly not allow their opponents, me being that some of the time, who would force you to mulligan again (which is I think the IPG fix for comp REL as I recall) if you accidentally drew more than one card in an FNM, instead of just shuffling one back like the guide indicates. Then when pointed out from a judge that this is indeed the fix, they get sour about it. This is the sort of behavior I despise but it creeps into other things in FNM like the land situation above. You should be thankful they even gave you free info.
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Apr 14, 2015 16:54
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Chill la Chill posted:I've known grinders who would strictly not allow their opponents, me being that some of the time, who would force you to mulligan again (which is I think the IPG fix for comp REL as I recall) if you accidentally drew more than one card in an FNM, instead of just shuffling one back like the guide indicates. Then when pointed out from a judge that this is indeed the fix, they get sour about it. This is the sort of behavior I despise but it creeps into other things in FNM like the land situation above. You should be thankful they even gave you free info. hey man that extra prize pack is a big deaaaaal
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Apr 14, 2015 16:56
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I mean the land stuff is pretty clear depending on how strict you interpret the chess-like "take your hand off the piece" rule. But I'm just approaching it from the other side and I've seen a lot of stuff that would only be applicable in comp+ REL attempted in FNM.
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Apr 14, 2015 17:03
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Zoness posted:hey man that extra prize pack is a big deaaaaal what if it has the foil Ugin that will totally pay for my PTQ trip? 
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Apr 14, 2015 17:03
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Ciprian Maricon posted:The rules regarding Regular REL and mistakes and fixes are really well thought out and give players a lot of leeway, It's great you guys are more flexible in what you allow opponents to take back but I can't believe so many of you think its scummy to have a baseline rule that effectively say stuff like "you can't reorder blockers after a combat trick or try to catch a trigger from 3 steps ago" This is really moving the goal posts when we're talking about missing a rebound trigger after you drew a card or dropping the wrong land at literally the lowest level competitive event.
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Apr 14, 2015 17:10
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One time i was playing against a grinder at the Shards of Alara pre-release. He called me out on missing my Sharding Sphinx may effect and I did not get a thopter. I started playing better after that. RIP May effects. I think the thing is it's hard to agree whether doing X or Y is helpful to players because everyone has a different capacity for "feel bads".
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Apr 14, 2015 17:15
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Hell, I let an opponent take back dropping a Wasteland and trying to waste my basic Mountain this past weekend. No point in being a dick.
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Apr 14, 2015 17:15
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Chill la Chill posted:I've known grinders who would strictly not allow their opponents, me being that some of the time, who would force you to mulligan again (which is I think the IPG fix for comp REL as I recall) if you accidentally drew more than one card in an FNM, instead of just shuffling one back like the guide indicates. Then when pointed out from a judge that this is indeed the fix, they get sour about it. This is the sort of behavior I despise but it creeps into other things in FNM like the land situation above. You should be thankful they even gave you free info. Sounds like everything worked out then? If you think they intentionally are trying to apply the IPG to gain an advantage then, tell your Judge because cheating matters, otherwise they were wrong about the rule fix and you got it sorted, great. If the problem is that those players have gotten to apply the incorrect fix against other less experienced players, again tell your Judge, if they are doing intentionally that's a serious problem, otherwise its a great lesson about how everyone should call a Judge for problems even if they think they know the solution. You have all the tools to fairly handle that situation I don't see what the problem is dude.
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Apr 14, 2015 17:16
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Kraus posted:Hell, I let an opponent take back dropping a Wasteland and trying to waste my basic Mountain this past weekend. No point in being a dick. You actually had to do this, basics are not a legal target for Wasteland.
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Apr 14, 2015 17:18
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Elyv posted:You actually had to do this, basics are not a legal target for Wasteland. To be clear, I even let them put it back in their hand and play something else. I know that the game would be rewound for illegal actions.
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Apr 14, 2015 17:20
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Kraus posted:Hell, I let an opponent take back dropping a Wasteland and trying to waste my basic Mountain this past weekend. No point in being a dick. I'd be so tilted because the guy has wastelands and doesn't know how to play them. Unless then it was cube. Then that would be double tilt.
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Apr 14, 2015 17:22
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It may be that because I learned semi-competitive play on MTGO, but I simply don't enjoy winning off of issues with the stuff I take for granted on MTGO like Rebound triggers or Courser of Kruphix triggers, etc. If I Hero's Downfall a dude's Sidisi, Undead Vizier as it comes into play and he chooses to sac his Caryatid to the Exploit effect anyways (because he doesn't understand that Exploit and Sidisi's tutor are separate triggers), I'm not gonna let him do it just so can say "hahaha gotcha you don't get anything and lose your Caryatid." I just don't want to win like that.
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Apr 14, 2015 17:22
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Zoness posted:I'd be so tilted because the guy has wastelands and doesn't know how to play them. Hmm, expand the Legacy scene by being cool to new players or be a fedora-shitlord.... Hard choice. I probably should have even stood up and loudly yelled at her about how girls shouldn't play Magic.
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Apr 14, 2015 17:24
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Kraus posted:Hmm, expand the Legacy scene by being cool to new players or be a fedora-shitlord.... Hard choice. I probably should have even stood up and loudly yelled at her about how girls shouldn't play Magic. Hey I didn't say being tilted meant being rude to someone! That's your own extrapolation hmph. Also like, I think both stances on takebacks are defensible, fedora strawmanning notwithstanding. Zoness fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 17:27
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Mr. Peepers posted:How do you guys feel about playing a land and then immediately changing your mind and trying to play a different one before anything else has happened? It's such a harmless thing that I don't mind it when people do it (or I do it, for that matter), and I don't actually know if there's a specific rule about it. As long as you're not casting a spell or otherwise changing the game, it doesn't bother me. I'm pretty sure as long as it's still in your hand you're allowed to take it back. Once you let it go I'm not sure what the actual rules are but I've never seen anyone care. I'm not letting you play a Tarn, start fetching, and go "oops! I meant to play a Misty" because you realized you have a basic Forest you want to get though. forbidden lesbian posted:I had a friend lose a game because someone accidentally told his opponent that she had a card she had kinda forgotten about. Kinda weird case (she was about to scoop) but he was still not happy about it. We had a really good one on Friday. My friend in the 2/0 bracket was playing Rw Painter against Reanimator, and was up a game. Winner splits 30 packs with me. Reanimator guy has Griselbrand and that Theros Archon in play being held off by an Ensnaring Bridge. Reanimator guy Exhumes Iona, naming red. My friend, believing Iona is symmetrical, also names red with his Exhumed Painter. He says that neither player can cast a spell (I didn't hear him say this or I would have corrected him.) My friend eventually wins because he had more cards in his library and the game played out as if nobody could cast a spell. Some of us figured out what was going on with Iona and the end of the game, we told the Reanimator player that Iona only affects opponents and he flipped out that he got cheated, etc. At any point in the game if someone had told him how his cards work, he would have won but that's not really our job or our business. Here's the best part: His 5/5 Archon and 7/7 Griselbrand could have been attacking through the Bridge for most of the game. None of the Iona nonsense should have mattered. I'm kinda curious if there's any punishment my friend could have been given for being wrong about what his opponent's cards do. I'm thinking no? Judges?
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Apr 14, 2015 17:29
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For those who enjoyed the circus that was the Chapin pro tour match, Cedric Phillips finalized the thoughts from his tweets into a pretty good article. I like the insight from the perspective of someone who handles a lot of magic coverage, particularly when many consider the SCG coverage better than that of the Pro Tour itself.
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Apr 14, 2015 17:34
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Angry Grimace posted:I'm not gonna let him do it just so can say "hahaha gotcha you don't get anything and lose your Caryatid." I just don't want to win like that. I think that's great dude, I argue for the rules a lot as a Judge but I'm very similar to you as a player. I hope you can see why the rules can't hold everyone to your very laid back and understanding standards of play though. suicidesteve posted:I'm kinda curious if there's any punishment my friend could have been given for being wrong about what his opponent's cards do. I'm thinking no? Judges? It depends, sadly sometimes games are decided on a mistaken understanding of how cards work. If we find there was intent on the part of a player, its a big problem otherwise it's nothing, maybe a warning if your friend mistakenly misrepresented the board state. I've had both situations. One time a Merfolk player won because of an assumption regarding Global vs. Personal lords, and another time at a GPT, a player after the match talked to his friend about how he knew his only out was intentionally misplaying Pillar of Flame and Tragic Slip, and when I called a Judge he was DQed. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 17:35
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suicidesteve posted:We had a really good one on Friday. At some point, you do have to read your cards, I mean it sucks for Reanimator guy but you know, don't pilot decks if you're too unfamiliar with what they do. I am laughing that your friend decided to effectively lock himself out of the game (even if he thought it effected his opponent too) rather then you know, just make everything blue or something. Like, that's a bold plan to win considering the board by definition has a big ol beatstick angel on it.
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Apr 14, 2015 17:39
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Speaking of Cedric Phillips he managed to catch some flak for rules-lawyering at like a 5K level tournament with regards to esper charm modes. Specifically the incident, from his writing: quote:Now let’s talk about my "scumbaggery" I mean that's different from at FNM, and I'm definitely not advocating doing this to people at FNM, but like, this kind of thing is gonna make someone feel bad at some point, and if everyone made an effort to play tighter about it I think aggregate happiness would go up in the long run. Of course if you do this to someone at FNM saying it'll "teach them" that's obviously stupid I'm just saying I used to be super sloppy and it took me a long time to break out of habits that involved taking things back and now im only a little sloppy w/ magic. FWIW I don't think there's an easy way out of feel bads wrt magic my point is just people have different habits wrt tight play so one person's norm is another person's being an asshat ceteris paribus with regards to additional insults and or injuries. Zoness fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 17:43
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