|
IcePhoenix posted:I don't think trading a pick that most people expected to be in the 20s for Thad Young to try and at least pretend like they were trying is bad enough to be called "horrible." Nor is flipping Thad for KG when you think Thad might opt in for next year. Thad Young isn't worth a 1st round pick to anyone but a contender desperate for one more solid role player. It's a terrible trade considering how valuable 1st round picks are when it was obvious to everyone that this team was going to be terrible without Love.
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 17:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 16:45 |
|
|
So we should only be critical of a front office if the mistake was one of the worst in NBA history? It was still dumb, arguing over exactly how dumb is just splitting hairs. If the best way to defend a decision is "well they've done dumber things!" it's probably a pretty bad move worth being critical of.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 17:51
|
|
|
euphronius posted:The MCW flip is crtiquable I think. thats true And I guess Minny hasn't done anything that stupid recently other than the Thad trade. Somehow it still feels like yesterday that Kahn refused to give Love a 5 year extension. The T-Wolves winning the lottery would be better than NY or LA thats for sure.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 17:52
|
|
|
Hashtag Banterzone posted:Somehow it still feels like yesterday that Kahn refused to give Love a 5 year extension. That seems like it probably worked out okay for everyone involved.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 17:53
|
|
|
MourningView posted:No one was like "oh well they added the best player from one of the worst teams in the league they definitely won't be bad now" come on. That was an indefensibly bad trade even when it happened. Young couldn't help them this year or in the future there was no reason to just give away a first rounder for him, regardless of whether it happened to land in the lottery. Right,the scale of that mistake can maybe be determined if you subtract what they paid for Thad vs what they got for him from the Nets. Late lottery pick for a worn out back up center, who was acquired for ticket sales and mentorship. Their hand was forced if the rumors about Thad not wanting to re-sign were true. But that doesn't mean they had to acquire one year of Thad in the first place! IcePhoenix, the Heat's pick is 10 right now, which means as nirwad said, could be Willie Caullie-Stein who could be a great defensive center, Kelly Oubre, a boom /bust wing prospect, Sam Dekker, jack of all trades 5th-8th man, or potentially good defender and rebounder in Kevon Looney. That is very large opportunity cost for a long shot chance at the 8th seed. Thad Young is a nice player but acquiring him at that price without having a secret agreement to re-sign hurts. Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Apr 14, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 17:55
|
|
|
MourningView posted:So we should only be critical of a front office if the mistake was one of the worst in NBA history? It was still dumb, arguing over exactly how dumb is just splitting hairs. If the best way to defend a decision is "well they've done dumber things!" it's probably a pretty bad move worth being critical of. That's fair I suppose. Also if we're talking about recent terrible front office moves let's talk about the Pekovic contract  e: isn't the heat pick top ten protected this year? That makes it a little easier to stomach if so.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 17:55
|
|
|
IcePhoenix posted:That's fair I suppose. ohh nice catch, I forgot about that. It's top ten protected this year, next year, and unprotected in 2017. Less egregious, but still not a great trade if Thad doesn't sign with them this offseason. Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Apr 14, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 17:57
|
|
|
Good points but it was Niwrad who suggested Cauley-Stein might be available at 10.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 17:58
|
|
|
euphronius posted:The MCW flip is crtiquable I think. Can you elaborate? I've adopted the 76ers as my second team and they've been pretty interesting to follow this season. Every time I hear people discussing MCW they are mostly critical of his shortcomings and don't sound optimistic. Didn't they get the Lakers pick in that swap or was that from Denver? Anyway, the KJ trade seemed more bizarre to me both now and at the time it happened.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 18:15
|
|
|
Pek's contract wasn't bad. There was risk there, but that was built into the contract. If Pek was healthy that contract would be a steal. And yeah, if the Heat keep their pick this year then the net effect of the Thad trade will be pretty minimal as Dragic/Wade/Deng/Bosh will probably be a pretty late pick next year. Ok, I feel better about Russel if the Wolves are in a position to draft him. MN does have potentially a heap of 2nd rounders too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 18:22
|
|
|
If Kanter isnt going to resign in OKC, who should I want as a big for OKC? Portis, Looney, Harrell? I would assume that they are going big or maybe Kris Dunn if they want another guard.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 18:23
|
|
|
Lockback posted:If Pek was healthy that contract would be a steal. Yeah and if I win the lottery tomorrow night I won't have to work another day in my life.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 18:26
|
|
|
jimcunningham posted:If Kanter isnt going to resign in OKC, who should I want as a big for OKC? Portis, Looney, Harrell? Portis is the best/safest player of the three. Harrell plays the best defense so he might be the best fit in that regard, but he's pretty low ceiling and I don't think he's more than a solid bench guy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 18:37
|
|
|
Man the Sixers get the Thunder and Heat picks but the Thunder is top-18 protected and they're 18th and the Heat is top 10 protected but they're 10th. gently caress that
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 18:45
|
|
|
IcePhoenix posted:I didn't say it wasn't bad, just that it wasn't horrible. Horrible is drafting Johnny Flynn over Steph Curry. Honestly, I liked Flynn way more than Curry and am still shocked that Curry turned out to be better than JJ Reddick EDIT:  Looking back, everyone thought the draft was gonna be terrible ouside of Blake.http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3160088 Read this and laugh at your defense of drafting Hasheem Thabeet highly The Glumslinger fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Apr 14, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 18:47
|
|
|
euphronius posted:The MCW flip is crtiquable I think. They got a lottery pick for a bad starting PG. I think it was a great move by them. Also think a really dumb move by Milwaukee not to just take that pick for Brandon Knight.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 18:47
|
|
|
The Glumslinger posted:EDIT: I'm always glad when someone posts one of these threads and I was doing something else that night and couldn't post in it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 18:57
|
|
|
Niwrad posted:They got a lottery pick for a bad starting PG. I think it was a great move by them. Eh, he's still a work in progress. His steals are over 2 now, and his turnovers have gone down. He's been breaking 20 points a game regularly. Just need to get his assists to double digits and he'll probably be where Kidd wants him to be.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 19:00
|
|
|
IcePhoenix posted:I'm always glad when someone posts one of these threads and I was doing something else that night and couldn't post in it. While I had way too much time on my hands, and was the OP Its nice to look back at all of the trade rumors and see people freaking out. Also, remember back when everyone thought Belinelli was gonna turn into what Curry is now? That was fun
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 19:01
|
|
|
Philthy posted:Eh, he's still a work in progress. His steals are over 2 now, and his turnovers have gone down. I just think the ceiling for a PG who can't shoot and turns the ball over a ton is low. Even if he improves on the turnovers and gets to the line more, he's just an average starting PG.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 19:05
|
|
|
Disillusionist posted:Can you elaborate? I've adopted the 76ers as my second team and they've been pretty interesting to follow this season. Every time I hear people discussing MCW they are mostly critical of his shortcomings and don't sound optimistic. Didn't they get the Lakers pick in that swap or was that from Denver? I don't think the mcw flip was bad but that's about the only one on the line. They turned the 11th pick in a bad draft into possibly the 6th pick in a great draft. I guess you could argue that they should not have drafted Mcw at all. Everyone knew he couldn't shoot two years ago.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 19:08
|
|
|
I like the storyline of "They probably shouldn't have selected the ROY" That was a super lovely draft though, for real.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 19:10
|
|
|
Disillusionist posted:Can you elaborate? I've adopted the 76ers as my second team and they've been pretty interesting to follow this season. Every time I hear people discussing MCW they are mostly critical of his shortcomings and don't sound optimistic. Didn't they get the Lakers pick in that swap or was that from Denver? After about the first 15-20 games, McDaniels really regressed in terms of his shooting, etc. Combine that with the friction between him and management, and I don't think Hinkie wanted to deal with signing him this offseason, even if he's restricted. Getting Canaan and a future 2nd isn't too bad in that situation IMHO. Redgrendel2001 fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Apr 14, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 19:11
|
|
|
Lockback posted:I like the storyline of "They probably shouldn't have selected the ROY" Ehhh, that ROY award was mostly because he got to shoot a whole bunch, even if they largely were not going in. There were guys who will wind up being better picked behind him (although in some of those cases it would have been hard/borderline impossible to project that at the time), and he had a lot of glaringly obvious flaws even at the time. But yeah it was a really lovely draft and they got a great return for him.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 19:18
|
|
|
Why does everyone hate the Knicks we haven't done anything criminally retarded since Jackson came on  they've gone to the playoffs 4 times in the last 15 years and got out of the first round once are they so jealous of the prospect of our shining star player Langston Galloway Lockback posted:I like the storyline of "They probably shouldn't have selected the ROY" I'm going to deliberately misread "they" and say it reminds me that some years they shouldn't give out an Oscar for best movie because when all the movies suck it degrades the award Victor and Rudy and Giannis gonna be all-stars soon tho
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 19:37
|
|
|
EvanTH posted:Why does everyone hate the Knicks we haven't done anything criminally retarded since Jackson came on http://www.nba.com/knicks/news/knicks-hire-derek-fisher-head-coach
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 19:39
|
|
|
euphronius posted:I don't think the mcw flip was bad but that's about the only one on the line. As a fan, I was pretty upset at pretty much every move since Jrue Holiday. However we seem to be on the right side of each and every one of those moves and a world where Russell, Saric, Noel and Embiid all play together is going to be loving sweet. Honestly I just want to be relevant and in the mix again, and the east is so loving weak this is perfect timing to start getting better. (In my fantasy world we get Okafor or Towns with the first pick and then ship him to OKC along with Grant for Durant and his contract....dem pipe dreams tho)
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 19:42
|
|
|
EvanTH posted:Why does everyone hate the Knicks we haven't done anything criminally retarded since Jackson came on Bringing in Fisher, not getting anything of value for Tyson Chandler, not getting anything of value for Shumpert and JR, and maybe signing Carmelo to a full max.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 19:44
|
|
|
Yuzenn posted:(In my fantasy world we get Okafor or Towns with the first pick and then ship him to OKC along with Grant for Durant and his contract....dem pipe dreams tho) lmao at the idea of OKC doing this
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 19:52
|
|
|
Niwrad posted:I just think the ceiling for a PG who can't shoot and turns the ball over a ton is low. Even if he improves on the turnovers and gets to the line more, he's just an average starting PG. Always room to improve, and he has Kidd as someone to do that. You have to remember that the Bucks are looking at Parker, Giannis, Ersan, and Middleton to be the heavy hitters. I don't think he's expecting another PG as good as he was, or a Russel Westbrook.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 19:59
|
|
|
Niwrad posted:Bringing in Fisher, not getting anything of value for Tyson Chandler, not getting anything of value for Shumpert and JR, and maybe signing Carmelo to a full max. Fisher's biggest mistake so far has been going on a 2-win streak at the end of the season Chandler looked injured and dead, I'm really really surprised how well he's held up back in Dallas. I've never been a big fan of Calderon so I don't think they got anything near equal value, but all that ignores the biggest positive of the trade--Raymond Felton is no longer on my team. the Shumpert/JR salary dump + 2nd round pick has yet to register for me as a bad thing because I like those guys a lot and it's fun to watch them on a winning team hmm ahaha trading for Bargnani was egregious to the point that those things are all still relative positives
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 20:11
|
|
|
Not that I'm thinking about the draft yet, but are there are good PG/SG/SF defenders expected to be in the late-first? I'm trying to think of Cavs needs, and I don't see any way a late-round big will sneak into playing time next year (for the sake of argument let's assume Thompson/LeBron/Love are all staying) especially until Varejao gets hurt again, while at the very least someone is going to have to come in to take Marion's minutes.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 20:22
|
|
|
Great White Hope posted:Not that I'm thinking about the draft yet, but are there are good PG/SG/SF defenders expected to be in the late-first? I'm trying to think of Cavs needs, and I don't see any way a late-round big will sneak into playing time next year (for the sake of argument let's assume Thompson/LeBron/Love are all staying) especially until Varejao gets hurt again, while at the very least someone is going to have to come in to take Marion's minutes. Rondae Hollis Jefferson is probably your best bet. Redgrendel2001 fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Apr 14, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 20:25
|
|
|
Dumping JR and Shumpert was just a salary thing, and I don't think there was really a huge market for either guy anyway given how they were playing in New York and what JR was making.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 20:35
|
|
|
Philthy posted:Eh, he's still a work in progress. His steals are over 2 now, and his turnovers have gone down. 20/10 from your PG is All-Star type numbers. e: Actually, just averaging over 10 assists per game is pretty drat special Kibner fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Apr 14, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 21:08
|
|
|
Kibner posted:20/10 from your PG is All-Star type numbers.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 21:17
|
|
|
Marbury had a bunch of seasons when he came close.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 21:27
|
|
|
INSPECTAH DECK posted:How many guys ever put that up? Payton, Stockton and Nash never did. Paul's the only guy in the past 20 years to do it. Very, very few. Even just averaging 10 assists is rare. On average, you get about two players a season who do that. Only 11 players have averaged 10+ assists multiple times in the past 35 years.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 21:37
|
|
|
Philthy posted:He's been breaking 20 points a game regularly. Just need to get his assists to double digits and he'll probably be where Kidd wants him to be. He has scored 20 points in a game exactly five times since he was traded, and at no point was it a regular occurence. He mixes in plenty of single digit games too. And he was still shooting horrendously up until the last 4 games. He's had 4 good games in a row but that is a tiny and completely meaningless sample size especially given that he has been a bad shooter his entire life up until this point. MourningView fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Apr 14, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 21:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 16:45 |
|
|
INSPECTAH DECK posted:How many guys ever put that up? Payton, Stockton and Nash never did. Paul's the only guy in the past 20 years to do it. 9 dudes http://www.basketball-reference.com...at=&order_by=ws Deron Williams '10-'11 is the only dude other than Paul to do it in the last 20 years, he hovered around 20/10 for 4-6 years MourningView posted:Dumping JR and Shumpert was just a salary thing, and I don't think there was really a huge market for either guy anyway given how they were playing in New York and what JR was making. hah first we're talkin' draft stuff in the NBA thread now we're talkin' NBA stuff in the draft thread JR and Shumpert were definitely playing all the value out of their contracts but it does seem like they coulda got a little bit more for 'em. Although that 2019 pick might not be so bad when the Cavs suck forever after they alienate LeBron again.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2015 21:40
|
|