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Rimworld is really wonderful, it's about half the  of DF (downside) but only a tenth of the clunk. It's not totally modder friendly, people are still having to do poo poo like decompile the binaries, but nothing like trying to mod DF. Plus it's designed to be localized/translated. It's in "alpha" but it's totally stable, looks great, sounds great, plays well, and in a year or two holy poo poo it's going to be amazing. Right now I'd put it as only "great".e: the reason I said anything was because Tynan actually works with the popular modders and I believe gives them advance releases, aside from the translation aspect Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Apr 13, 2015 |
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Apr 13, 2015 08:50
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Dungeon Ecology posted:So is that a recommendation to try Rimworld, or a warning to stay away? It's pretty much an exact mixed bag. 50% oh man I wish this was in DF, 50% I wish it had this stuff from DF.
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Apr 13, 2015 11:05
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Rimworld is a lot of fun and has some great mods and great potential but DF has more depth/features. DF has been around longer though so that's not surprising. I love the mortars from Rimworld and I'd love to have some sort of dwarven cannon siege weapons.
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Apr 13, 2015 16:30
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Moridin920 posted:Rimworld is a lot of fun and has some great mods and great potential but DF has more depth/features. DF has been around longer though so that's not surprising. Why? The mortars are overpriced, a pain to man, and inaccurate as hell. Until mortar skill is based off of weapons or at the very least, slowly hones in on the desired target as they adjust their shot angle, they're a solid :nope:
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Apr 14, 2015 06:37
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Just get like 6-8 mortars all firing at once. Mass death.
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Apr 14, 2015 06:40
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Moridin920 posted:Just get like 6-8 mortars all firing at once. Mass death. You mean mass missing. Although I haven't played the new edition that added mortars needing ammo so maybe that fixed some accuracy? I tried shelling a mechanoid ship with 5 mortars and it took forever to even score a single hit.
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Apr 14, 2015 07:05
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After having this fortress going for four years I'm starting to wonder if the goal of not having dwarves perpetually haul is impossible. I had 120 dwarves, and nothing was ever getting sorted out. Everyone was hauling. No one would do their jobs unless I disabled hauling labors. Then I upped the cap on dwarves from 120 to 150, and the next migrant wave I made all of them nothing but haulers, save the couple really good military ones. I'm still in a state of perpetual hauling. The goblin corpses are still rotting. The pasture where they slaughtered my herds is still rotting away. Everyone keeps getting horrified at troll corpses because they aren't getting moved. Is the answer to get even more haulers? I have 110 dwarves that have jobs or are in the military, and 40 that just haul stuff. It never appears to get better. Do I need even more haulers? Or will my fortress never get organized?
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Apr 14, 2015 07:56
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I often have forts of 20-40 dwarves where hauling is only a bottleneck right after a battle or while felling trees (or at the beginning of the game when there are rocks everywhere from mining, but that's a one-time deal.) You just have to specialize your dwarves and plan your fort layout to minimize unnecessary travel.
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Apr 14, 2015 08:19
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I suspect that if you plotted it out, the number of hauling jobs generated would be an exponential growth curve with the size of a fort. It's part of the reason quantum stockpiling and industry standardization are so popular, since they reduce the amount of hauling. I mean, maybe I'm doing something wrong, but after a certain point I generally give up and accept that most of the clutter is part of a given fort's ambiance, but then I haven't really played around with the new emotional stuff enough to see how much of a difference repeated corpse trauma causes.
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Apr 14, 2015 08:20
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The answer might be to start using wheelbarrows in your stone stockpiles, or to widen your hallways. Try following a few dwarves to see what the gently caress is going on. What are they hauling? Where are they hauling it from? What path are they taking? You never know what totally stupid poo poo you might discover
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Apr 14, 2015 08:33
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I often have forts of 20-40 dwarves where hauling is only a bottleneck right after a battle or while felling trees (or at the beginning of the game when there are rocks everywhere from mining, but that's a one-time deal.) You just have to specialize your dwarves and plan your fort layout to minimize unnecessary travel. Well, I have a lot more dwarves than that. My dwarves are specialized as far as jobs go, and my pancake fortress design means you don't need to walk a long distance to do your normal activities. My farm and pasture take a bit longer to get to, but it isn't terrible. I've stopped creating anything but the necessities like food and booze I'm still pretty much gridlocked.
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Apr 14, 2015 08:35
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Node posted:After having this fortress going for four years I'm starting to wonder if the goal of not having dwarves perpetually haul is impossible. I had 120 dwarves, and nothing was ever getting sorted out. Everyone was hauling. No one would do their jobs unless I disabled hauling labors.
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Apr 14, 2015 08:38
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What you do is you build a "battle room" 1 level over your refuse stockpile, and you make the floor out of drawbridges. When the fighting's over, pull the lever and drop everything into the refuse pile and boom, ready to go again. Alternatively replace "refuse stockpile" with "magma"
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Apr 14, 2015 08:46
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Which is a good alternative given the crippling lag eventually induced by tons of fort objects.Flesh Forge posted:Alternatively replace "every room" with "magma"
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Apr 14, 2015 09:01
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Node posted:I've stopped creating anything but the necessities like food and booze I'm still pretty much gridlocked.
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Apr 14, 2015 09:46
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Zereth posted:Are they allowed to gather refuse from outside? I've tried both, it doesn't seem to matter in the end. If you don't gather (ie, intent to destroy) refuse from the outside, won't that accelerate FPS death? Node fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 10:26
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Node posted:Well, I have a lot more dwarves than that. My dwarves are specialized as far as jobs go, and my pancake fortress design means you don't need to walk a long distance to do your normal activities. My farm and pasture take a bit longer to get to, but it isn't terrible. I've stopped creating anything but the necessities like food and booze I'm still pretty much gridlocked. I make every corridor 3 tiles wide to make traffic a non issue, and then I have many connections between different Z levels, with workshops working above and below stockpile space. I have the mechanics workshop near the trade depot and just move all the mechanisms to the depot each time a caravan comes by (They are my primary trade goods). Farming is done in a dirt layer above the stockpiles and workshops. Once I hit my cap of 40 adult dwarves I tend to have more than I need, and just let them make babies enough to trigger goblin siege activity. I do not bother with furniture stockpiles. I make what I need as I need them and keep them in the workshop until I'm ready to use them. Workshops are easy to build, and 3 tile wide corridors means I can just slap a masons shop down in my mining areas to make blocks and deconstruct it when I'm done. The trick is to decide which stockpiles you are going to be using more and have them closer to your target industry. For example you aren't going to get much work in gem works so you can stick that pile off to one side near the access to the mining delves. Stone is more important so use wheelbarrows and/or mine carts to fill a stockpile near the middle of your work area. Most of the stone in it will start off in the area you just dug out for your fortress, and even three wheelbarrows works pretty well to keep it supplied unless you go crazy with crafts (This is dumb, mechanisms are useful and more valuable, and making them skills up an engineer so you can have good traps). Do separate piles for fresh food objects like plump helmets and processed food objects like prepared meals and drink. Set up a pig tail stockpile near your farmer/weaver/clothesmaking node. Cloth stockpiles are useful, but disallow thread from it. It weighs next to nothing and doesn't clutter the loom so leave it there. Your blocks and your bars should be kept separate. Toss coke and charcoal in with the metals. Store flux separate to regular stone, and near the metals. I generally do flux and ores together. I keep blocks closer to the surface in case I want to build something up there, and a second pile down near the entrance to the mines if I want to wall something off. Livestock are annoying. Unless you have a pressing need for milk or yarn simply butcher them and turn them into more useful bone, leather, and meat. And most importantly of all: remember the Z axis is a thing. If your fort isn't spread over at least 5 floors, you are doing it wrong.
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Apr 14, 2015 10:33
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Pickled Tink posted:words This is, pretty much, exactly what I am doing. Maybe pancake design means something different. Essentially I'm spreading myself out up/down in the Z axis as I am in the X/Y axis. I have all my stockpiles separated like that, although putting pigtails near your looms was something I hadn't thought of.
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Apr 14, 2015 10:39
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Node posted:If you don't gather (ie, intent to destroy) refuse from the outside, won't that accelerate FPS death? This is the great big flaw with DF and the current version is much worse than previous ones, at least in biomes that have surface plants. No matter what you do, eventually a fort gets really aggravatingly slow. I really wish Toady would stop layering on more poo poo and fix this underlying problem. It's not pathing, it's not object count, it's not pets, because you can micromanage these things and yes it helps a bit, but really the game just gets constipated until you want to quit.
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Apr 14, 2015 11:07
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Flesh Forge posted:This is the great big flaw with DF and the current version is much worse than previous ones, at least in biomes that have surface plants. No matter what you do, eventually a fort gets really aggravatingly slow. I really wish Toady would stop layering on more poo poo and fix this underlying problem. It's not pathing, it's not object count, it's not pets, because you can micromanage these things and yes it helps a bit, but really the game just gets constipated until you want to quit. The game is doomed never to improve in performance until he gets it running on more than one core. I just started over on a new embark site. I cheated and prospected (holy poo poo is it loving hard to find a site that has sand, clay, soil, no aquifer, shallow/deep metals, WITH coal and hematite) because I was just feeling dumpy about my last fort not having any iron. Goblin invasions were so weak I couldn't rely on goblinite. I'm starting over doing that, and with a Node fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 11:44
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Throwing more cores at it isn't the answer, the game is just really shittily optimized. It's really blatant in this version, when right after embarking and you haven't even done any digging or construction or crafting and your FPS tanks right off the bat. Do yourself a favor and just turn off aquifers if you're avoiding embarking on them, imo aquifers are something you do once or twice to prove to yourself you can do it but then holy loving poo poo they're just annoying as hell and not realistic at all. I know they have interesting properties and whatever but wow the whole donut cave in ritual is super annoying.
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Apr 14, 2015 12:16
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I love me some aquifer. Great for infinite power in a nice safe indoor area. Also great for drowning traps. Not like it takes long to breach one anyway (A game month you can use to have the rest of your dwarves do some logging). Try making an inland tsunami generator sometime 
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Apr 14, 2015 12:26
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Node posted:Well, I have a lot more dwarves than that. My dwarves are specialized as far as jobs go, and my pancake fortress design means you don't need to walk a long distance to do your normal activities. My farm and pasture take a bit longer to get to, but it isn't terrible. I've stopped creating anything but the necessities like food and booze I'm still pretty much gridlocked. Well, what are they all doing? Hit 'j' and look at the jobs screen and see what's taking up everyone's time? If you're only making food and booze and a fort of 120 dwarves has 0 idlers because everyone is hauling poo poo then something is wrong.
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Apr 14, 2015 16:03
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I had been in the habit of digging a 10 level deep trench that my entry-walkway would hang over. This walkway would be lined with traps, so that if an invader dodged one, he'd be very likely to fall to his death in the pit. I built this a bit too close to my actual fort, and discovered that the bottom level of the trench and the bottom level of my dorms shared a mineral vein that my miners had auto-mined away. Once they did that, my dwarves figured out that they could save a whole 2 tiles of walking moving poo poo in and out of the fort and took that route instead of the main one. This took them through a 1 tile wide pathway, which was causing a ton of holdups, as dwarves would carry rocks, try to move through the chokepoint, get knocked back a couple tiles, try again, etc etc. It caused a lot of project stall and stupidity until I eventually closed up the path while finishing the dorms. So, double check your available pathways and make sure there's no choke points and that dwarves aren't getting held up in places. Another thing you can do is use the Decentralized workshop and Decentralized dorms to help space things out a bit. Do keep in mind though that if you use the dorm plan, you can absolutely expand the design outward by another row on the top and bottom to pretty much double the capacity-per-floor. In a fort of 200 dwarves, expanding the floorplan took me from needing 10 floors of dorms to just 4.
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Apr 14, 2015 16:19
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Pickled Tink posted:The problem here is the pancake design. Um.... But...Pancake IS making a vertical stack of circular floors like a stack of pancakes... Node posted:Maybe pancake design means something different. No? It's really efficient because going up/down a floor is one step. Something can be ten floors away and it's ten steps as opposed to everything on one floor and it's tens upon tens of steps.
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Apr 14, 2015 16:31
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To those unfamiliar with your terminology (me) the term "pancake" implies a spread out flat design. I don't bother giving dwarven bedrooms corridors any more. They sleep in a 3x3x1 box, with a bed in the middle, a cabinet or coffer in each corner, and a door and doors on each wall leading to the next bedroom set up the same. A 3x3 central shaft with 8 up/down stairs arranged around the side and a hollow core (I like throwing things down the middle with a dump to get supplies to deep expansions), stick 24 rooms around it each floor and you are set. Also provides a bit of exploratory mining on each floor so you can tell what minerals are there if you decide to go digging for anything there.
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Apr 14, 2015 17:16
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The correct answer is fractal bedrooms.   There actually was a point where I'd spend more time designing new walk-efficient fractal fort designs than I would actually playing the damned game.
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Apr 14, 2015 17:29
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I did one fort with all-door bedrooms. Took a ton of micromanaging but the end result was worth it
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Apr 14, 2015 18:10
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This is what I do for bedroom design. Tried to find the picture I stole it from but that was a while ago.code:# = wall D = door X = up/down stairs It's a square in the game, comes out rectangular looking on the forums though. But basically this gets you 12 bedrooms that are 2x2 each. I usually do this plan in a 2x2 arrangement so on one floor I'll have 48 rooms. Stairs in the middle make it easy to build this up or down as needed, 3-4 floors of this will usually be enough for most forts. It's not super pretty or whatever but it is efficient - I want the most amount of decent bedrooms in as small a space as possible. Each door is shared by 3 rooms, and that central hallway/stairway is a great spot to put high value furniture to make dwarves happy. In masterwork that's where I put a bunch of display cases with useless artifacts. It is superior to other designs because it minimizes walking distance, too. Super easy to pancake. For example that looks cool but all the empty space between the rooms and the staircase makes my OCD twitch. By the time a dwarf gets to the stairs in this design, a dwarf using my design will already well on their way out of the living quarters and maybe even at their destination already. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 19:13
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that design is seriously gorgeous
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Apr 14, 2015 19:59
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Moridin920 posted:Each door is shared by 3 rooms, and that central hallway/stairway is a great spot to put high value furniture to make dwarves happy. In masterwork that's where I put a bunch of display cases with useless artifacts. If you just want efficiency, make a circular room with a radius of 8 squares, with a central stairway, and cram 200 beds in next to each other. Just remember to designate each one as being the size of the whole room. Bam. Depression-proof, vampire-proof hyper-kingly sleeping quarters for all your fort. Sure, it's ugly as hell, and really cheesing the game, but it DEFINITELY minimizes walking distance.
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Apr 14, 2015 21:01
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I always build in a swastika pattern because uh
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Apr 14, 2015 22:34
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Ghostwoods posted:If you just want efficiency, make a circular room with a radius of 8 squares, with a central stairway, and cram 200 beds in next to each other. Just remember to designate each one as being the size of the whole room. Bam. Depression-proof, vampire-proof hyper-kingly sleeping quarters for all your fort. I do that kind of stuff for orc forts but my dwarves all get a private room with a cabinet.
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Apr 14, 2015 22:36
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With the way dwarves act about storing old clothes in their rooms/cabinets forever (as opposed to leaving the threadbare crap where they lie until they're abandoned enough to go back in the stockpile), I'm kinda drawn to general dormitory designs for all except the noble and important.
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Apr 14, 2015 22:38
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To add to the bedroomchat: I just mine out my entire fortress on a modular plan:code:It might not be pretty, but it's functional.
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Apr 14, 2015 22:50
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Moridin920 posted:Well, what are they all doing? Hit 'j' and look at the jobs screen and see what's taking up everyone's time? That was essentially it. Make lavish meal/brew drink from barrel, military training, and dozens of Bring object to stockpile.
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Apr 14, 2015 23:12
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Node posted:That was essentially it. Make lavish meal/brew drink from barrel, military training, and dozens of Bring object to stockpile. Yeah, but which objects? Rocks? Wood? Millions of crafts? Figure out what's being hauled and then figure out how to streamline it. If it's all stone from a lot of recent mining, one thing you can do is create temporary stockpiles near the loose stone for said stone. Assign wheelbarrows to it and to your regular stone pile, set the temp stockpile to feed stone to the regular one, and your dwarves will happily haul the loose stuff to that stockpile, then wheelbarrow it to the regular one. If it's millions of crafts/food/drink/whatever, build a bunch of bins/pots/whatever to store that poo poo.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:59
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DFHack status:Rumrusher posted:best way to avoid death by falling is to wear clothes of none so that it would cause a Pass right through option when you hit the ground. Wearable void, for all your cheating-death needs
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Apr 15, 2015 05:24
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scamtank posted:Wearable void, for all your cheating-death needs 
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Apr 15, 2015 05:39
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We all know dwarves get bad thoughts from going naked, but do they get bad thoughts from wearing nothing?
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Apr 15, 2015 05:49
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