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Back on the amazing and great topic of droids that can feel pain, I remember from my early days of reading absolute garbage that there was a short story in one of the many godawful collections, "Tales From Jabba's Palace", that went into the backstory of that loving torture droid. From what has unfortunately stuck in my mind, most droids aren't capable of feeling pain on their own and it's only the ones that are designed to have heavy interaction with organics that are programmed for it. So like if you get mad because your Astromech just hosed up and give it a kick it can register that OW gently caress I GUESS MASTER IS MAD AT ME. And the torture droid had some kind of weird programming or manufacturing flaw that let it sense pleasure, which it got from DROID TORTURE. So it rigged that gonker up with some kind of loving pain sensor just to torture it and get off. This is obviously the highest level of canon and indisputable, so I hope you all will keep it in mind for future debate on the subject.
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Apr 14, 2015 01:54
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homullus posted:A New Hope is a much better story when Leia is the only competent character -- it indirectly emphasizes the power of the Force, too. I prefer charming-but-kind-of-sucky Han to masterful, wall-of-Wookiepedia-text Han. I agree with this. For most of my childhood, A New Hope was the only Star Wars film, since it's the only one we had on VHS. And in that Leia comes off as the only competent character (apart from Ben and Artoo) in the whole Death Star escape scene where Luke, Chewie and Han bumble about making silly mistakes and getting their foot stuck in it (literally in the case of the Dianoga in the trash compactor). I always thought Leia was super cool.  I hear the new comics that feature her as a protagonist are pretty good.
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Apr 14, 2015 02:31
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homullus posted:A New Hope is a much better story when Leia is the only competent character -- it indirectly emphasizes the power of the Force, too. I prefer charming-but-kind-of-sucky Han to masterful, wall-of-Wookiepedia-text Han. Yeah absolutely, Luke is an inexperienced kid, Obi-Wan goes off and does what he needs to for everyone else to escape. Han is a decent pilot but gets caught in an easy trap and isn't really particular clever or quick witted but hes a pretty dashing rogue. Leia takes charge pretty much immediately and leads everyone out, even gives Luke a proper drive and motivational talk so he can try and move on from Han being a scoundrel and leaving. She picks up on the easy escape pretty much immediately when they only sent 4 TIE fighters after them. She is the one competent character in the group for a New Hope. Shes the best Disney Princess.
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Apr 14, 2015 02:34
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Leia is how I imagine people should play the Diplomat class in Age of Rebellion, and it always makes me sad when nobody picks it. 
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Apr 14, 2015 02:37
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Endman posted:I agree with this. For most of my childhood, A New Hope was the only Star Wars film, since it's the only one we had on VHS. And in that Leia comes off as the only competent character (apart from Ben and Artoo) in the whole Death Star escape scene where Luke, Chewie and Han bumble about making silly mistakes and getting their foot stuck in it (literally in the case of the Dianoga in the trash compactor). Outside of the Death Star sequence, though, R2 doopdy-doos his way into Jawa hands, and Ben is all "Huh, good job getting your rear end kicked, Luke! Here's a lethal weapon that's more of a threat to you than to anyone else. Now let's go to Alderaan right now!" while Owen and Beru are getting murdered. And when I put it that way, I wonder whether Obi-Wan knew they were dead already, and was hoping to talk Luke into going without visiting home first. He certainly doesn't seem too surprised.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:05
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homullus posted:Outside of the Death Star sequence, though, R2 doopdy-doos his way into Jawa hands, and Ben is all "Huh, good job getting your rear end kicked, Luke! Here's a lethal weapon that's more of a threat to you than to anyone else. Now let's go to Alderaan right now!" while Owen and Beru are getting murdered. It was the ~will of the force~ that they get horribly and brutally disintegrated by Boba Fett. Leia is the PC every party needs in this game. The one who knows what the hell is going on and what needs to be done. Otherwise your motley band of rebels will never get their acts together.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:12
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Woah, woah, woah, since when did Bobba Fett kill Luke's parents?
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Apr 14, 2015 04:25
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Covok posted:Woah, woah, woah, since when did Bobba Fett kill Luke's parents? Unless I'm mistaken, I'm pretty sure there was a deleted scene that indicated that Boba Fett was in/near Mos Eisley at the time, and that it's implied that he torched them and their house with his flamethrower. (although nothing concrete in regards to him killing them, right? ...Also how come we're all spoilering his name?)
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Apr 14, 2015 04:51
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Major Isoor posted:Unless I'm mistaken, I'm pretty sure there was a deleted scene that indicated that Boba Fett was in/near Mos Eisley at the time, and that it's implied that he torched them and their house with his flamethrower. (although nothing concrete in regards to him killing them, right? ...Also how come we're all spoilering his name?) This is loving retarded, and yet more of the dumb garbage that the EU inserted into the film storylines to tie random poo poo in. No.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:54
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Fuzz posted:This is loving retarded, and yet more of the dumb garbage that the EU inserted into the film storylines to tie random poo poo in. Oh I wholeheartedly agree. Since I mean, for one thing why would they bother hiring a (presumably expensive) bounty hunter to ransack a house and retrieve some droids with information that they want to take all measures to keep secret, when they can quite easily send a detachment of storm troopers to do it for less cost - especially since there'd be a reduced risk of the information being duplicated and sold/given to a third party, if it gets retrieved by the storm troopers, as opposed to if it were retrieved by Boba. And that's just practical reasoning from the Empire's point of view - I've got no doubt that there are other reasons, such as BF having standards about burning innocent farmers alive, and the like. (although I'm not really sure about that last one, since they don't really go into anything like that in the movies, and well, you know what the EU can be like) EDIT: vvv Yeah, I remember reading about it somewhere and looking it up, then just thinking 
Major Isoor fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 05:27
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Major Isoor posted:Unless I'm mistaken, I'm pretty sure there was a deleted scene that indicated that Boba Fett was in/near Mos Eisley at the time, and that it's implied that he torched them and their house with his flamethrower. (although nothing concrete in regards to him killing them, right? ...Also how come we're all spoilering his name?) If this is true hahahaah omg that is the new dumbest thing. A scene used to show the empire is evil so the audience doesn't like them and view the stormtroopers as dangerous AND to give luke motivation to go fight them is changed to that. The EU is just the worst.
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Apr 14, 2015 05:27
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Fuzz posted:This is loving retarded, and yet more of the dumb garbage that the EU inserted into the film storylines to tie random poo poo in. Well we were just talking about the dumb things the prequels shoved in to tie everything together, so I thought I'd add a stupid tie-in courtesy of the fans  For anyone who doesn't know, the idea is that when Vader pointedly tells Boba "No disintegrations!" in Empire Strikes Back, he's referencing the incinerated corpses of the Lars couple. Personally, I always liked that little theory. And as far as I know it was just a fan theory. I have no idea if it actually features in any published EU material.
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Apr 14, 2015 05:43
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In a setting filled to the brim with silly, silly crap (though fans blowing their lid at how a trio of mediocre at worst movies RUINED THEIR CHILDHOOD GUYS  never gets old), that theory sets a new level of stupidity. Why do nerds need to make references where there isn't? Vader is telling that to Boba Fett to set him up as a dangerous bounty hunter, not as a throwback. That and well, Beru and Owen got incinerated, not disintegrated!
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Apr 14, 2015 07:13
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Iceclaw posted:In a setting filled to the brim with silly, silly crap (though fans blowing their lid at how a trio of mediocre at worst movies RUINED THEIR CHILDHOOD GUYS No, see, Boba Fett's flamethrower was Force-sensitive, and it made Vader say "disintegrations" instead of "incinerations" because it was actually created out of sentient cortosis/Kyber mesh alloy weave cloth, and while Boba Fett loses that flamethrower in one of his many Sarlacc digestions, it later ends up by turns in the hands of every character implied to survive the original trilogy.
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Apr 14, 2015 14:28
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This is dumb. Star Wars fans are dumb. (I am a Star Wars fan)
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Apr 14, 2015 17:46
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Wait, where is this Boba Fett killed Owen and Beru thing coming from? I'm 99.9% sure that's just a fan theory, because Wookipedia has nothing about it. The Lars family get shot by stormtroopers and the homestead torched just like the movie implies. The EU is plenty dumb but this isn't one of it's many sins.
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Apr 14, 2015 18:10
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Finnankainen posted:Wait, where is this Boba Fett killed Owen and Beru thing coming from? I'm 99.9% sure that's just a fan theory, because Wookipedia has nothing about it. The Lars family get shot by stormtroopers and the homestead torched just like the movie implies. The EU is plenty dumb but this isn't one of it's many sins. The only results I found from google were cracked and movieplot explanations of the theory. This is not EU, it's fan theory. Also, what is and isn't canon from the EU?
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Apr 14, 2015 18:44
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quote:
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Apr 14, 2015 18:52
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Yeah they nuked a ton of stuff with the coming of Episode 7 which is pretty great because there's a lot of crap in there,
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Apr 14, 2015 18:58
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FISHMANPET posted:Yeah they nuked a ton of stuff with the coming of Episode 7 which is pretty great because there's a lot of crap in there, The EU is crap all the way down.
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Apr 14, 2015 19:04
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PantsOptional posted:
I...agree with this list. I don't know about Databank, Starwars.com Encylopedia, Insider, or the novels, but everything else makes sense. I'm glad the Clone Wars TV show is still canon...even if that means the Clone Wars Animated Film had to stay canon as well.
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Apr 14, 2015 19:35
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While I invested an inordinate amount of time, effort, and money collecting and reading the old EU, I really am glad of the wipe back to ground zero. There's no way a new film trilogy would go over well with general audiences if it was holding true to 30 years of ancillary bullshit. Edit: alternately, having the sequel trilogy do its own thing without reference to the old eu at all would have angered a shitload of diehard fans who were heavily invested in the old canon. By officially acknowledging the old stuff and explicitly putting it into its own timeline, where it all still counts against itself and whatnot, the best of both worlds is achieved. The new films aren't beholden to three decades worth of novels and comics that the average viewer will never even know existed, the old stuff is still acknowledged and celebrated as its own thing. jivjov fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 19:50
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Isn't it somewhat similar to what keeps happening with superhero movies, where every new movie kinda gets to make up its own canon? I haven't followed the comic book world very closely, but it seems like the Whedon Marvel movies borrow heavily from but aren't particularly faithful to the various comic canon timelines.
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Apr 14, 2015 20:10
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Wow there's a lot of new posts in this thread, I wonder what all the hubub is abo 
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Apr 14, 2015 20:22
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Mustache Ride posted:Wow there's a lot of new posts in this thread, I wonder what all the hubub is abo If you put Star Wars in the thread title, this is the eventual result. Also, I'm listening to Peaches and Hotsauce's podcast Campaign which is all about Edge of the Empire. I've only played in one EotE game that died. The thing I'm finding weird about EotE from this podcast is how bad damage seems to be. Could be the GM, but it just doesn't feel Star-Wars-y. Covok fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 20:46
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Covok posted:
This is my main concern with it, also. It's mostly the same system as its parent, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 3e, which is about as deadly as you can get. Three main characters get shot (C-3PO, R2-D2, and Leia) in the original films, and it's never more than an inconvenience; Luke loses his hand and it's barely alluded to again. I also don't find the ship combat exciting unless every player is in his or her own ship (at which point it's fine, because it's essentially the same as regular combat). On the other hand, Star Wars! In a grittier setting! With great art! I play it almost every week.
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Apr 14, 2015 21:27
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Endman posted:Leia is how I imagine people should play the Diplomat class in Age of Rebellion, and it always makes me sad when nobody picks it. Diplomat: Agitator here  Every party needs a Face, even big god drat heros.
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Apr 14, 2015 23:02
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Foxtrot_13 posted:Diplomat: Agitator here You. I like you. Also I now know the way to make the thread super duper cross is come up with dumb theories about the original trilogy.
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Apr 15, 2015 00:12
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Does anyone have any thoughts on using the Dark Heresy wound tables in this game as a replacement for the standard critical hit table? 
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Apr 15, 2015 00:14
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homullus posted:This is my main concern with it, also. It's mostly the same system as its parent, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 3e, which is about as deadly as you can get. Three main characters get shot (C-3PO, R2-D2, and Leia) in the original films, and it's never more than an inconvenience; Luke loses his hand and it's barely alluded to again. Does Star Wars need to be "grittier," though? That's just not the concept that comes to mind when I think Star Wars. Ya know what I mean?
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Apr 15, 2015 01:46
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Covok posted:If you put Star Wars in the thread title, this is the eventual result. Yeah combat can be pretty nasty particularly early on. Thats why its really recommended you dont have individual enemies but have them act in squads. The squads are far weaker and easy to kill than if every enemy is operating independently. Three storm troopers if they hit are going to deal 30 points of damage mimimum while 3 storm troopers working in one group are more likely to hit but only deal 10 damage minimum. Stormtroopers in general a super nasty to players fresh out of the gate, particularly if they havn't taken anything more than their starting 500credits, so thats not the best example. They should be pretty dangerous threats. On the other hand a character with a little bit of xp and money under their belt can comfortably get 5/6 soak and be able to halve the damage a storm trooper does. Generally anyone who has finished off a talent tree and taken some skills can deal with storm troopers while a combat tree completion will let you just massacre them. It starts out pretty lethal certainly though. EDIT: Also Covok come hang out with us. kingcom fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Apr 15, 2015 |
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Apr 15, 2015 02:12
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Covok posted:Does Star Wars need to be "grittier," though? That's just not the concept that comes to mind when I think Star Wars. Ya know what I mean? Empire Strikes Back is darker and grittier than A New Hope. The characters have to make some hard decisions with some consequences, and some bad things happen that move the story forward. I don't need the Star Wars version of Reservoir Dogs, but a Star Wars version of The Godfather sounds pretty great to me (and The Godfather is grittier than Star Wars).
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Apr 15, 2015 02:32
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Endman posted:Does anyone have any thoughts on using the Dark Heresy wound tables in this game as a replacement for the standard critical hit table? It would probably be easier to use the critical hit deck from WFRP3e, since the dice systems are somewhat similar.
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Apr 15, 2015 02:33
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Endman posted:Does anyone have any thoughts on using the Dark Heresy wound tables in this game as a replacement for the standard critical hit table? The existing crit tables are fine--just treat every weapon as having Vicious in an amount equal to however much damage penetrates defenses.
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Apr 15, 2015 03:09
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homullus posted:Empire Strikes Back is darker and grittier than A New Hope. The characters have to make some hard decisions with some consequences, and some bad things happen that move the story forward. I don't need the Star Wars version of Reservoir Dogs, but a Star Wars version of The Godfather sounds pretty great to me (and The Godfather is grittier than Star Wars). Man ESB isn't what I'd call gritty. It's still pretty basic heroic space opera.
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Apr 15, 2015 04:03
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ProfessorCirno posted:Man ESB isn't what I'd call gritty. It's still pretty basic heroic space opera. I feel some people confuse gritty with drama.
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Apr 15, 2015 04:05
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ESB isn't super gritty or anything, but its themes are a lot darker than A New Hope. The Rebels lose in their fight against the attacking Imperial forces on Hoth. Luke trains with Yoda, but fails to overcome the darkness within himself (symbolised by the fight with ghost-Vader in the magical cave), then he rushes off to defeat his nemesis, only to lose horribly and get his arm chopped off. Han overcomes his fear of commitment by expressing his feelings to Leia only to be frozen in carbonite and shipped off to Jabba. Leia expresses her feelings towards Han only to lose him immediately per the above. At the end of the film you get a real sense that the Rebels have lost this one. Things are far more desperate and there's very little of the same heroic feeling you get at the end of A New Hope.
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Apr 15, 2015 04:16
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Endman posted:At the end of the film you get a real sense that the Rebels have lost this one. Things are far more desperate and there's very little of the same heroic feeling you get at the end of A New Hope. Yea sure, this is the 'heroes at their lowest point' stock standard part of every standard story.
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Apr 15, 2015 04:20
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kingcom posted:Yea sure, this is the 'heroes at their lowest point' stock standard part of every standard story. In that case, what's the issue with EotE being a bit "grittier" than regular Star Wars?
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Apr 15, 2015 04:22
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Madurai posted:The existing crit tables are fine--just treat every weapon as having Vicious in an amount equal to however much damage penetrates defenses. Oh man, the last session I ran was continuing a eote and f&d joint game since we couldn't do the main campaign for that day. So was total improv with the fact the players were going to be Star Wars Rogue Trader. It was spent with the downtime of me setting up encounters with reading from the critical table of Only War in homage. They also love the critical table in this game. Also combat is legit deadly, which has me constantly tweaking encounters to avoid TPK. Still they like it especially when they use a thermal detonator to clear a room full of enemies with flame throwers or come up with other unique solutions.
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Apr 15, 2015 04:33
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