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Niven posted:Unions are kind of like the police, the vast majority are incredibly important and have the best intentions, then a small percentage go and ruin it for everyone. I worked for eight months in a CAW plant producing power generation turbines and the things I saw turned me against unions for years afterwards. Yep that sure is the same dumb anecdotal bullshit everybody brings up that they have no evidence with which to back it up. Like, verbatim, the same bullshit every time just with changes in the type of job, or industry. You might as well post it with a link to foxnews.com at this point. Meanwhile companies literally force people to work 60-70 hour weeks often seven days a week, for half the rate of the same job from over twenty years ago, with laughable benefits, no pensions, and without any protection from management abuse.
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 04:36 |
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# ? May 17, 2024 14:01 |
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Unions sometimes protect bad workers, because 1) they protect all members of the union and 2) even bad workers can be hosed over unfairly by their employers. If a worker is really that bad, the employer should be able to properly document it and follow the agreed upon procedure to dismiss them. They don't get to bypass procedure just because the employee is bad, because the procedure is there to make sure the people the bosses say are bad workers really are bad workers and not just people the bosses don't like.
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 04:45 |
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ryonguy posted:Yep that sure is the same dumb anecdotal bullshit everybody brings up that they have no evidence with which to back it up. Like, verbatim, the same bullshit every time just with changes in the type of job, or industry. You might as well post it with a link to foxnews.com at this point. Meanwhile companies literally force people to work 60-70 hour weeks often seven days a week, for half the rate of the same job from over twenty years ago, with laughable benefits, no pensions, and without any protection from management abuse. Clearly you missed the part where I said most unions are necessary, but a few bad examples lead to poor public perception. Yes, the story of what I experienced first hand is a personal anecdote. An example of why I had a poor opinion of unions for a long time, addressing the question asked "why are unions looked on so poorly".
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 04:47 |
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ryonguy posted:Yep that sure is the same dumb anecdotal bullshit everybody brings up that they have no evidence with which to back it up. Like, verbatim, the same bullshit every time just with changes in the type of job, or industry. You might as well post it with a link to foxnews.com at this point. Come on, I'm as anti capitalist as possible but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt because they admitted it was a minority of unions that are like that.
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 04:51 |
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What's bizarre to me is how the anti-union dialogue always centers around a union protecting bad workers or institutionalizing "inefficient" policies, never how unions generally exist to protect the safety and welfare of their workers. I worked at a closed shot distribution center once and there was a guy that always bitched about how much faster we could be doing this thing or that. Yeah, ok, lets turn up the speed on those conveyor belts that are moving huge shipping pallets around. That'll be fun. on topic: I got a call the other day from a company that was selling ad space in phone books. Man that guy has a lovely job selling the dumbest service that nobody will ever see.
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 09:31 |
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Radio Help posted:What's bizarre to me is how the anti-union dialogue always centers around a union protecting bad workers or institutionalizing "inefficient" policies, never how unions generally exist to protect the safety and welfare of their workers. Because no-one every remembers the day when everything was OK and the system actually worked, but keep passing the stories of how hosed up everything was to their grandchildren. How many times you have actually heard a story about a restaurant which was affordable, the staff was nice and funny, everything was clean and the food tasted good?
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 09:59 |
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Radio Help posted:What's bizarre to me is how the anti-union dialogue always centers around a union protecting bad workers or institutionalizing "inefficient" policies, never how unions generally exist to protect the safety and welfare of their workers. I worked at a closed shot distribution center once and there was a guy that always bitched about how much faster we could be doing this thing or that. Yeah, ok, lets turn up the speed on those conveyor belts that are moving huge shipping pallets around. That'll be fun. You find it bizarre the anti-union side focus on the bad things? Also millions of old people see those ads. Still dumb.
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 10:04 |
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Radio Help posted:He also brings up the point that, generally speaking, retail stores have such a slim profit margin that when a union forces a company to pay its employees something above a slave wage, they can only ever really operate in the red. :Those drat employees eating up all of our profits. If only they'd just work for less money this wouldn't be a problem! It's entirely the employees sending this company down the toilet.
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 10:08 |
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Der Kyhe posted:Because no-one every remembers the day when everything was OK and the system actually worked, but keep passing the stories of how hosed up everything was to their grandchildren. How many times you have actually heard a story about a restaurant which was affordable, the staff was nice and funny, everything was clean and the food tasted good? I live in a city with a lot of good restaurants and a relatively low cost of living so... frequently? I get your point, though: bitching about stuff is cathartic. It's still a dumb way to justify rhetoric. Croccers posted:Gawd I love it when I hear this I know, I think it's ridiculous. Maybe there's a grain of truth somewhere in the specifics of his situation, but using that as your basis for being anti-union is loving dumb. Cakefool posted:Also millions of old people see those ads. Still dumb. gently caress 'em they'll be dead soon enough
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 10:25 |
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Radio Help posted:gently caress 'em they'll be dead soon enough I don't ask to get a copy of the Yellow Pages dumped in my driveway every year, they just do it for some reason. I just got one a few days ago. Am I going to die soon? Is this like The Ring? On the subject of Yellow Pages: screw those guys. I used to work for a county-run performing arts theatre, and they listed us under "theaters" (eg Loews, AMC --- movie theaters) for years, and we never even paid them (and that poo poo's expensive, we're talking several hundreds of dollars last time I saw their going rate). Now, this isn't just the print copy; a quick online search had us coming up like that as well, thanks to them. This was in a tourist town, so every day we had rain, I'd get a jillion phone calls from bored tourists whose plans to hit Busch Gardens or the ye olde history attractions just got ruined, and were flipping through the Yellow Pages in their motel room or searching on their phone to find somewhere to catch a movie. Any rainy day, especially in the summer, I could expect this call: me: "Touristtown County Arts Center, JD speaking. How can I help you? "Yeah, what time y'all showing Batman?" me: "Sorry, this isn't a movie theater. We do have a great jazz trio playing Friday, though!" [silence, hangs up]
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 11:29 |
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Niven posted:Unions are kind of like the police, the vast majority are incredibly important and have the best intentions, then a small percentage go and ruin it for everyone. I worked for eight months in a CAW plant producing power generation turbines and the things I saw turned me against unions for years afterwards. Sounds a lot like how the navy works except we got paid poo poo and could still get fired for the dumbest poo poo.
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 12:02 |
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JacquelineDempsey posted:On the subject of Yellow Pages: screw those guys. I used to work for a county-run performing arts theatre, and they listed us under "theaters" (eg Loews, AMC --- movie theaters) for years, and we never even paid them (and that poo poo's expensive, we're talking several hundreds of dollars last time I saw their going rate). The advertising invoices you see for hundreds of dollars are bogus directory publishers trying to scam you by implying that you're paying them for your local yellow page listing, when actually they only publish useless directories that don't get sent out to the general public (some don't bother printing any at all, since they're banking on people assuming they're responsible for the phone books the phone company sends out.) You probably get listed in your local yellow pages through your phone company.
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 14:37 |
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Len posted:Walmart makes you watch a video all about how unions don't look out for employees just themselves and their wallets. It goes on to say if you ever even give your name to a union rep that person will go out and use your name for nefarious purposes. Goddamn, I love that video! I've been looking for a copy of it, too. The union organizer character in it is as sleazy as possible, with greasy hair, aviator sunglasses, and a pornstache. They show him skulking around the parking lot, leaning into employees' car windows to give them pamphlets and poo poo. It's amazing. "UNIONS ARE BAD FOR YOU AND US (mostly us)!!!" I remember years ago a goon posted a thread about planning on quitting Walmart and was looking for ideas of how to go out with a bang. He/the thread decided he should print up a bunch of fake "Walmart Union" pamphlets and put them in the bathrooms and on the tables in the breakroom before he left. They apparently took it very seriously and management had a bit of a freakout over it.
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 15:33 |
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GOTTA STAY FAI posted:Goddamn, I love that video! I've been looking for a copy of it, too. The union organizer character in it is as sleazy as possible, with greasy hair, aviator sunglasses, and a pornstache. They show him skulking around the parking lot, leaning into employees' car windows to give them pamphlets and poo poo. It's amazing. "UNIONS ARE BAD FOR YOU AND US (mostly us)!!!" I don't know how true it is but the Walmart documentary said corporate has an anti-union crew that comes out to inspect the situation if they find poo poo like that.
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 15:50 |
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Len posted:I don't know how true it is but the Walmart documentary said corporate has an anti-union crew that comes out to inspect the situation if they find poo poo like that. That reminds me of the time I took the ferry over to Morganville (which is what they called Shelbyville in those days), so I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em.
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 16:02 |
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Len posted:I don't know how true it is but the Walmart documentary said corporate has an anti-union crew that comes out to inspect the situation if they find poo poo like that. When I worked at Best Buy they took it super serious. They showed a video for everyone on the floor and then for the next week or so the management was like SO, you guys know Unions are BAD right. Most people would nod to just get them to shut up. A few of us really had no interest in a union because we didn't care that much about the job, but knew unions were generally a good thing for workers and would strike up conversations about it. "Well I was THINKING about a union, but I dunno....." to which management would get really serious and talk to us in a voice loud enough for other employees to hear about how bad they were and would just take money out of our pockets and stuff. It was kind of comedic/sad seeing managers that we all used to respect turn into corporate robots that had a newfound hatred for unions. This was back in like 2008 so I dunno if they had a unionizing scare somewhere, but Best Buy really cracked down on it then.
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 16:16 |
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Avenging_Mikon posted:They also protected him from being disciplined over a stupid reason: 40%of his sick days were Fridays and Mondays. Assuming a random distribution, that's what you'd expect. This is literally a Dilbert cartoon from probably the nineties or something. It's amazing that real-life bosses/HR people could be that dumb.
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 16:29 |
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Niven posted:Unions are kind of like the police, the vast majority are incredibly important and have the best intentions, then a small percentage go and ruin it for everyone. I worked for eight months in a CAW plant producing power generation turbines and the things I saw turned me against unions for years afterwards. Literally everything here is BadManagement.txt, the "the managers of this company are so loving stupid they managed to hire two people for opposite jobs without anyone at any point even noticing" being a particular highlight.
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 17:11 |
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Came for the PYF, got DND. Dumb marketing: https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/11/12/ddos-marketing-stunt/ quote:The owner of a web host tried to promote his anti-DDoS kit and highlight vulnerabilities by launching two brief DDoS (distributed denial of service) attacks against the Hong Kong stock exchange, but he instead wound up convicted and sentenced to nine months in jail.
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 17:21 |
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Phlegmish posted:This is literally a Dilbert cartoon from probably the nineties or something. It's amazing that real-life bosses/HR people could be that dumb. The factory workers at my work got a £50 bonus if they took 60% of their holidays midweek (tues/wed/thurs) this year.
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 18:10 |
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Phlegmish posted:This is literally a Dilbert cartoon from probably the nineties or something. It's amazing that real-life bosses/HR people could be that dumb. God drat, it seriously is. April 18, 1996
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# ? Apr 13, 2015 18:51 |
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Mouse Dresser posted:My union, IATSE (International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees), kept my former company from trying to do away with our over time pay. Worked on a touring show and we'd get a premium if we worked with less than 24 hours between loading the show out and loading it in in a new venue. The company wanted to end that, and IATSE stepped up and went all so I got no beef with them. I did some work with IA when I was younger but switched to management type worked before I ever joined up. Honestly IA is pretty reasonable most of the time but when a local is bad they suck harder then anything. The difference between, say, DC and Philly is insane. Even still I will take an IA crew any day over some hellish teamster, carpenter, decoman mix. The DC local is in the process of reinventing themselves and making it so people want to hire them even when they aren't forced too. It seems to be working, I sat in on one of their new training classes and it was refreshing to hear a strong emphases on professionalism. Although 24h is pretty cushy amount of time between an out and in, 15-16h should be reasonable. My "favorite" turnaround was spending 6 hours sleeping in the back of a limo that was driving us between gigs. Why a limo? Cheaper than a bus. Edit: JacquelineDempsey posted:
Lets just be thankful our industry still exists bongwizzard has a new favorite as of 02:32 on Apr 14, 2015 |
# ? Apr 14, 2015 02:22 |
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I'm slowly working up to becoming a member of IATSE Local 15, to join up you gotta work a certain amount of hours per year in the field and work up their list before you can become a apprentice. Its a pretty good system, people who don't wanna join up with the union still get called for work but union members get called first. The pay difference between non union work in AV setup stuff and union work is pretty massive. One company I work for pays me 15 a hour, and the lowest paying job I've done through the union is 22 a hour (the highest was 42 a hour)
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# ? Apr 14, 2015 03:28 |
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# ? Apr 14, 2015 04:21 |
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bunnielab posted:I did some work with IA when I was younger but switched to management type worked before I ever joined up. Honestly IA is pretty reasonable most of the time but when a local is bad they suck harder then anything. The difference between, say, DC and Philly is insane. Even still I will take an IA crew any day over some hellish teamster, carpenter, decoman mix. The DC local is in the process of reinventing themselves and making it so people want to hire them even when they aren't forced too. It seems to be working, I sat in on one of their new training classes and it was refreshing to hear a strong emphases on professionalism. Haha, we had a limo from the airport to the venue once. Didn't fit all of our luggage in the trunk, so we had a very cozy ride snuggled up with our suitcases. The 24 hour mandate was because we had a 2 day rig & load in. My show was massive, played arenas. Edit: DC local was all right, at least in my department. The worst locals I've ever dealt with were the lovely small town ones. My home local is a small town in Oregon, so I understand the weird pride they all get. But I've had the shittiest, most entitled fuckers when playing Bumblefuck Ohio or East Knobgobbler, Tennessee. quote:I'm slowly working up to becoming a member of IATSE Local 15, to join up you gotta work a certain amount of hours per year in the field and work up their list before you can become a apprentice. Its a pretty good system, people who don't wanna join up with the union still get called for work but union members get called first. The pay difference between non union work in AV setup stuff and union work is pretty massive. One company I work for pays me 15 a hour, and the lowest paying job I've done through the union is 22 a hour (the highest was 42 a hour) Do you get double points for going on the road? That may be an option. I got my membership fast-tracked because I got a job touring. Mouse Dresser has a new favorite as of 05:08 on Apr 14, 2015 |
# ? Apr 14, 2015 05:04 |
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"The woman had to use the crapper. Turns out, so did I. Buy Canadian."
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# ? Apr 14, 2015 12:27 |
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Gabriel Pope posted:The advertising invoices you see for hundreds of dollars are bogus directory publishers trying to scam you by implying that you're paying them for your local yellow page listing, when actually they only publish useless directories that don't get sent out to the general public (some don't bother printing any at all, since they're banking on people assuming they're responsible for the phone books the phone company sends out.) You probably get listed in your local yellow pages through your phone company. The More I Know! We used to get spam mail/faxes all the time, makes sense that that was the case there. This would make a good cross-post for PYF Scummy Advertising Technique. I'm not usually a sucker for that sort of thing, but when I worked there I thought their solicitations were legit until my boss pointed out that we'd never paid Yellow Pages, yet still got listed (albeit in the wrong category). It was a weird situation, though, since we were funded partially by the city, partially by the county. This lead to all kinds of financial screwiness. For example, we never saw a bill from Cox Communications despite having a cable tv line in our theater. When our IT guy asked "what's Cox charging us, and who's paying it?" we were all "durrr?" I felt like the kid in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hPfYNzJ6ZA "I dunno, my mom put some games on it..." kinda sums up how that all worked.
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# ? Apr 14, 2015 13:32 |
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Radio Help posted:"The woman had to use the crapper. Turns out, so did I. It's a really stupid McDonald's ad campaign. Another one has a guy dressed as a boat captain in Montreal saying "It's a place to keep warm" and another is two teens saying "We're just waiting for the bus" thereby screaming that nobody actually goes to mcdonalds for the food EDIT:Meanwhile. the Ottawa Senators clearly have a better mcdonalds promotion... bunnyofdoom has a new favorite as of 16:38 on Apr 14, 2015 |
# ? Apr 14, 2015 16:19 |
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bunnyofdoom posted:It's a really stupid McDonald's ad campaign. What could the intended point possibly be aside from that? What were they thinking?
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# ? Apr 14, 2015 16:31 |
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Mouse Dresser posted:Haha, we had a limo from the airport to the venue once. Didn't fit all of our luggage in the trunk, so we had a very cozy ride snuggled up with our suitcases. I am surprised there isn't a stagehand thread here. I know there are a few guys in TFR who are hands. There is/was a theatre thread but it was all actors and such. I'm not in enough anymore to do a decent OP but I would post like crazy. I am about to start a little tour this summer. I travel constantly normally but this will be the first time in years traveling with a crew and I am pretty pumped for it.
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# ? Apr 14, 2015 16:34 |
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WickedHate posted:What could the intended point possibly be aside from that? What were they thinking? I have no loving clue. But the fact that one of their ads is literally "WE had to poo poo while driving down the highway, and we didn't want to do it at the side of the road so instead we went to mcdonalds" really doesn't engender confidence.
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# ? Apr 14, 2015 16:39 |
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McDonald's does have really nice bathrooms.
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# ? Apr 14, 2015 16:41 |
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There was an energy drink whose ads consisted of people saying why they used it. It started out with things like "When I'm pulling an all-nighter" or "When I need to meet a tough deadline", but by the end everyone just said "Every day" "Every day" "Every day". I'm sure the intent was something like "Hey if you try our product you'll find it's helpful in a wider range of situations than you expected," but the way it came across was "If you try our product you will immediately become addicted, avoid like the plague."
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# ? Apr 14, 2015 16:44 |
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WickedHate posted:What could the intended point possibly be aside from that? What were they thinking?
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# ? Apr 14, 2015 17:19 |
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# ? Apr 14, 2015 18:08 |
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That owns so loving much.
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# ? Apr 14, 2015 19:52 |
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Henchman of Santa posted:McDonald's does have really nice bathrooms. I dunno what McDonalds you've been eating at, but every one I've been to, you're lucky if a homeless hasn't pissed/vomited on the hand dryers.
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# ? Apr 15, 2015 00:41 |
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I am a customer of a bank that has no ATMs in NYC, but I can get free withdrawals from the ones located in ever NYC McD's location. Also they certainly do have bathrooms. So yeah, I like the McD's in NYC for those two reasons.
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# ? Apr 15, 2015 02:29 |
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mind the walrus posted:That owns so loving much. It's also why education is important.
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# ? Apr 15, 2015 03:06 |
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# ? May 17, 2024 14:01 |
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Something tells me that even history education won't stop assholes from wanting to classify anyone who doesn't align with their perception of normal functioning with a brush of their choosing. Seriously even though it's far better than it used to be even 20-30 years ago we're going to look back on this period of history and be aghast at how blatantly incompetent mental healthcare is in our society.
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# ? Apr 15, 2015 03:17 |