Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Let's Debate the Police and Criminal Justice

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Zeitgueist posted:

How big a problem is minority kids ragging on each other for attempting to do schoolwork, would you say?

Is it the root of minority underachievement? No. Socioeconomic status and poo poo schools are more the cause. Does it suck for the kid getting called Oreo? Yup. Anyway, this is a derail. My point was simply that saying "only" staunch republicans undervalue education is inaccurate.

# ? Apr 14, 2015 23:04

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# ? May 28, 2024 08:22

Zeitgueist: Aug 8, 2003; by Ralp

ActusRhesus posted:

That speaking in absolutes is dumb because there will always be a counter example?

The only people in the world who make fun of education are staunch republicans!

What about this?

gently caress you you're racist.

I never said that aren't people besides GOP voters who are proud of ignorance.

I'm more making fun of your really bad attempt at a counter.

# ? Apr 14, 2015 23:06

Zeitgueist: Aug 8, 2003; by Ralp

ActusRhesus posted:

Is it the root of minority underachievement? No. Socioeconomic status and poo poo schools are more the cause. Does it suck for the kid getting called Oreo? Yup. Anyway, this is a derail. My point was simply that saying "only" staunch republicans undervalue education is inaccurate.

Oh so you really meant "black" when you said minority.

# ? Apr 14, 2015 23:07

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

ActusRhesus posted:

Sometimes you deliberately gently caress up an interpretation in order to bring it into alignment with your own perceptions.

Your point appeared to be "yes, many black people and Latinos willfully mire themselves in ignorance, just like republicans." There's little difference.

# ? Apr 14, 2015 23:28

Radbot: Aug 12, 2009; Can't post for 3 years!

Why don't we just ban whites from being in the police? That should solve most of these problems.

# ? Apr 14, 2015 23:30

Voyager I: Jun 29, 2012; This is how your posting feels.
🐥🐥🐥🐥🐥

ToxicSlurpee posted:

The issue though is that all of this military hardware got paid for at some point and apparently industry lobbyists and ensuring that the government is required to buy X amount of stuff every year whether they need it or not. Given that our military spending is obscene what people are seeing is that we're spending poo poo loads of money arming the police just as heavily as we do soldiers when there are people going hungry. The defense companies are making money hand over fist while the rest of us get to foot the bill. And for what? So Sergeant Fatty McRacistpants can murder black people more efficiently.

They are separate problems. The contracts exist to let military industrial shitlords sell more hardware. The cops getting their leftovers is just a side-effect, and if you stopped that from happening the government would just throw them all in a pit or whatever because the contract still says they have to buy X whatevers per year.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 00:46

Spun Dog: Sep 21, 2004; Smellrose

Voyager I posted:

They are separate problems. The contracts exist to let military industrial shitlords sell more hardware. The cops getting their leftovers is just a side-effect, and if you stopped that from happening the government would just throw them all in a pit or whatever because the contract still says they have to buy X whatevers per year.

Works for me. Maybe even get a few pennies for scrap.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 00:55

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

Obdicut posted:

Also harder to quantify. I know after 9/11 a bunch of supposed experts on The Islamic Terror got big bucks for giving lectures to cops and feds and stuff--their expertise turned out to be reading Krauthammer articles.

How do you get in on this racket? More importantly, they won't be suspicious when you cite SomethingAwful Dot Com as your source, right?

# ? Apr 15, 2015 01:16

sugar free jazz: Mar 5, 2008

Obdicut posted:

Also harder to quantify. I know after 9/11 a bunch of supposed experts on The Islamic Terror got big bucks for giving lectures to cops and feds and stuff--their expertise turned out to be reading Krauthammer articles.

Link please, because that super owns.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 02:21

Agrajag: Jan 21, 2006; gat dang thats hot

ActusRhesus posted:

Is it the root of minority underachievement? No. Socioeconomic status and poo poo schools are more the cause. Does it suck for the kid getting called Oreo? Yup. Anyway, this is a derail. My point was simply that saying "only" staunch republicans undervalue education is inaccurate.

ActusRhesus posted:

See e.g. Minority students being accused of "acting white" for doing well in school.

It appears that your point was that minorities place little value on education and decry those in their communities for placing a high value on education. Also account for the fact that your original statement was, "Minority students being accused of "acting white" for doing well in school." By reading that one can easily see it as an implication that minorities obviously scorn education. You also make it seem like it is an actual fact when really it is just some baseless rhetoric, that incidentally implies fault with minorities for not receiving equal levels of education.

Agrajag fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Apr 15, 2015

# ? Apr 15, 2015 02:21

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

sugar free jazz posted:

Link please, because that super owns.

There was this dude: http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/07/11/terrorism.expert/

And Cristina Del Sesto, and Steve Emerson--Emerson claimed the entire town of Birmingham was now a Muslims-only enclave.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 02:30

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Well this happened.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/04/14/399609170/chicago-plans-reparations-fund-for-victims-of-police-torture-in-70s-80s
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/04/chicago-to-make-5-5-million-in-reparations-to-police-torture-victims/

quote:

(14 Apr 2015)

Chicago to make $5.5 million in reparations to police torture victims

Chicago will pay $5.5 million reparations to dozens of victims of police torture in the 1970s and 1980s and their family members, Mayor Rahm Emanuel and aldermen announced on Tuesday.

The city also will provide psychological counseling, job placement aid and other services to victims of torture under disgraced former Chicago police Commander Jon Burge, according to an ordinance that is expected to be passed by the City Council in an upcoming meeting.

Chicago and Cook County have already paid about $100 million in settlements and verdicts for lawsuits related to Burge, who was fired from the police department in 1993 and later convicted of lying about the use of police torture in testimony he gave in civil lawsuits.

Burge and detectives under his command were accused of forcing confessions from black suspects by using electric shocks delivered with a homemade device, suffocation with plastic covers and mock executions.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 02:31

tsa: Feb 3, 2014

Zeitgueist posted:

Oh so you really meant "black" when you said minority.

Good lord, what lengths will you go to in order to prove how stupid you are.

Zeitgueist posted:

How big a problem is minority kids ragging on each other for attempting to do schoolwork, would you say?

Why don't you tell us, you have all the answers.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 02:51

ToxicSlurpee: Nov 5, 2003; -=SEND HELP=-; Pillbug

ActusRhesus posted:

Is it the root of minority underachievement? No. Socioeconomic status and poo poo schools are more the cause. Does it suck for the kid getting called Oreo? Yup. Anyway, this is a derail. My point was simply that saying "only" staunch republicans undervalue education is inaccurate.

There's actually quite a difference between "undervalue and/or do not have access to education" and "openly hostile to the idea of being taught things." I went to high school with some white guys who were functionally illiterate and proud of it.

Voyager I posted:

They are separate problems. The contracts exist to let military industrial shitlords sell more hardware. The cops getting their leftovers is just a side-effect, and if you stopped that from happening the government would just throw them all in a pit or whatever because the contract still says they have to buy X whatevers per year.

Not really. All this leftover military stuff laying around is leading people to go "well what do we do with this? gently caress I don't know, I guess the police can use it?" and it is arming police to the teeth. Sorry but one is ultimately directly causing the other which has been leading to an increasingly well-armed police force. The defense contractors are just lapping up the free money while anybody that says "Well I don't know, maybe we shouldn't be spending so loving much on tanks we don't even need" is labelled a coward. Cutting military spending is effectively impossible so we have the net effect of a police force that gets more heavily armed every year.

And hey you give some boys new toys and they're going to want to play with them, right? It also doesn't help that a lot of people are also ex-military...you know, people that are literally trained to kill and told that the proper response to a threat is bullets? Then you consider that police culture often has a severe "us vs. them" attitude and you have this perfect shitstorm that is going to get worse before it gets better.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 02:52

tsa: Feb 3, 2014

What's funny is that the effect Actus is talking about is taught in any intro to racism class you'll see.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 02:54

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

Most cops are not ex-military. Only roughly 10 percent.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 02:57

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

tsa posted:

What's funny is that the effect Actus is talking about is taught in any intro to racism class you'll see.

Sure, and if you ever get beyond the intro level you might come to understand what sort of person never stops talking about it. That's the sort of person who'll bring it up when people are discussing republican stupidity; apropos of nothing, they will begin to prate on about self-destructive black culture.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 02:58

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

Obdicut posted:

Also harder to quantify. I know after 9/11 a bunch of supposed experts on The Islamic Terror got big bucks for giving lectures to cops and feds and stuff--their expertise turned out to be reading Krauthammer articles.

Sounds like a lot of those anti-Satanic cult seminars cops had deal with in the 80s/90s and that was just dudes making poo poo up.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 03:04

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

KomradeX posted:

Sounds like a lot of those anti-Satanic cult seminars cops had deal with in the 80s/90s and that was just dudes making poo poo up.

Or the cop convention in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 03:12

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

SedanChair posted:

Sure, and if you ever get beyond the intro level you might come to understand what sort of person never stops talking about it. That's the sort of person who'll bring it up when people are discussing republican stupidity; apropos of nothing, they will begin to prate on about self-destructive black culture.

And what sort of person is that :allears:

# ? Apr 15, 2015 03:17

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

Republicans may be stupid, but do you know who is even stupider? THE BLACKS.

I am a moderate centrist, that's how you know I am trustworthy.

VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Apr 15, 2015

# ? Apr 15, 2015 03:18

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Agrajag posted:

It appears that your point was that minorities place little value on education and decry those in their communities for placing a high value on education. Also account for the fact that your original statement was, "Minority students being accused of "acting white" for doing well in school." By reading that one can easily see it as an implication that minorities obviously scorn education. You also make it seem like it is an actual fact when really it is just some baseless rhetoric, that incidentally implies fault with minorities for not receiving equal levels of education.

No. My point was that there are some people who are not staunch republicans who also ridicule education. Never said it was representative of the general population. But...you know...if you want to pretend that no kid has ever experienced social stigma for "acting white" that's cool.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 03:21

ActusRhesus: Sep 18, 2007; "Perhaps the fact the defendant had to be dragged out of the courtroom while declaring 'Death to you all, a Jihad on the court' may have had something to do with the revocation of his bond. That or calling the judge a bald-headed cock-sucker. Either way."

Zeitgueist posted:

I never said that aren't people besides GOP voters who are proud of ignorance.

I'm more making fun of your really bad attempt at a counter.

Was responding to toxic slurpee. Not everything is about you.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 03:26

Murderion: Oct 4, 2009; 2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
FUN TIME

FRINGE posted:

Well this happened.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/04/14/399609170/chicago-plans-reparations-fund-for-victims-of-police-torture-in-70s-80s
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/04/chicago-to-make-5-5-million-in-reparations-to-police-torture-victims/

Awesome, that means the guys getting disappeared now should expect a payout around 2050. PROgr_{es_s} :suicide:

# ? Apr 15, 2015 04:03

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

Obdicut posted:

Or the cop convention in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

I have not watched nor read Fear and Loathing

# ? Apr 15, 2015 05:17

My Rhythmic Crotch: Jan 13, 2011

Arizona police cruiser sends gun-wielding suspect flying, skip to about 1:55 if you just want to see the impact. This page has an interview where the police chief defends the action saying not to "Monday morning quarterback" them, lol.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 05:18

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

My Rhythmic Crotch posted:

Arizona police cruiser sends gun-wielding suspect flying, skip to about 1:55 if you just want to see the impact. This page has an interview where the police chief defends the action saying not to "Monday morning quarterback" them, lol.

Oh my sweet Jesus loving Christ thats, gently caress I don't even know what to say about that

# ? Apr 15, 2015 05:25

Rah!: Feb 21, 2006

My Rhythmic Crotch posted:

Arizona police cruiser sends gun-wielding suspect flying, skip to about 1:55 if you just want to see the impact. This page has an interview where the police chief defends the action saying not to "Monday morning quarterback" them, lol.

What the gently caress :catstare:

# ? Apr 15, 2015 05:34

My Rhythmic Crotch: Jan 13, 2011

It's innovative if nothing else. Ramming vehicles during pursuits is nothing new, ramming human beings? Pretty sure that's a new one.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 05:35

tezcat: Jan 1, 2005

My Rhythmic Crotch posted:

It's innovative if nothing else. Ramming vehicles during pursuits is nothing new, ramming human beings? Pretty sure that's a new one.

Well police trying to murder a potential suicide victim isn't new.

But really, what brain surgeon thinks the response to a guy holding a gun to his head is to run him over?

# ? Apr 15, 2015 05:51

chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

tezcat posted:

Well police trying to murder a potential suicide victim isn't new.

But really, what brain surgeon thinks the response to a guy holding a gun to his head is to run him over?

Someone who wants to indirectly pull the trigger.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 06:01

Terebus: Feb 17, 2007; Pillbug

http://tucson.com/news/blogs/police-beat/marana-suspect-hit-by-police-car-id-d/article_d25f2a7e-bb97-11e4-ba50-df63e61754d4.html?id=201408

quote:

Mario Miranda Valencia, 36, is facing charges of discharging a firearm in city limits, aggravated assault on a police officer with a deadly weapon and shoplifting involving a firearm, according to a news release from Marana police.

Haha, dude got ran over and he's getting charged with aggravated assault. Seems a bit strange to me.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 06:24

chitoryu12: Apr 24, 2014

Terebus posted:

http://tucson.com/news/blogs/police-beat/marana-suspect-hit-by-police-car-id-d/article_d25f2a7e-bb97-11e4-ba50-df63e61754d4.html?id=201408

Haha, dude got ran over and he's getting charged with aggravated assault. Seems a bit strange to me.

Probably from him firing a random shot during his negotiations with the police.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 06:54

Series DD Funding: Nov 25, 2014; by exmarx

The other story said he shot in the air.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 06:54

ToxicSlurpee: Nov 5, 2003; -=SEND HELP=-; Pillbug

Series DD Funding posted:

The other story said he shot in the air.

There was air between him and the police. Ergo, it was at the police.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 06:56

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Oh those rascal "law enforcement" people!

You dont do the job. You dont understand. They cant possibly obey the law... because.

http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/04/lawyer-representing-whistle-blowers-finds-malware-on-drive-supplied-by-cops/

quote:

Lawyer representing whistle blowers finds malware on drive supplied by cops

An Arkansas lawyer representing current and former police officers in a contentious whistle-blower lawsuit is crying foul after finding three distinct pieces of malware on an external hard drive supplied by police department officials.

The hard drive was provided last year by the Fort Smith Police Department to North Little Rock attorney Matt Campbell in response to a discovery demand filed in the case. Campbell is representing three current or former police officers in a court action, which was filed under Arkansas' Whistle-Blower Act. The lawsuit alleges former Fort Smith police officer Don Paul Bales and two other plaintiffs were illegally investigated after reporting wrongful termination and overtime pay practices in the department.

According to court documents filed last week in the case, Campbell provided police officials with an external hard drive for them to load with e-mail and other data responding to his discovery request. When he got it back, he found something he didn't request. In a subfolder titled D:\Bales Court Order, a computer security consultant for Campbell allegedly found three well-known trojans, including:

Win32:Zbot-AVH[Trj], a password logger and backdoor
NSIS:Downloader-CC[Trj], a program that connects to attacker-controlled servers and downloads and installs additional programs, and
Two instances of Win32Cycbot-NF[Trj], a backdoor

All three trojans are usually easily detected by antivirus software. In an affidavit filed in the whistle-blower case, Campbell's security consultant said it's unlikely the files were copied to the hard drive by accident, given claims by Fort Smith police that department systems ran real-time AV protection.

"Additionally, the placement of these trojans, all in the same sub-folder and not in the root directory, means that [t]he trojans were not already on the external hard drive that was sent to Mr. Campbell, and were more likely placed in that folder intentionally with the goal of taking command of Mr. Campbell's computer while also stealing passwords to his accounts."

...

Last September, Arkansas State Police officials declined Campbell's request that the agency's criminal investigation division probe how the hard drive sent to Campbell came to be booby-trapped. "The allegations submitted for review appear to be limited to misdemeanor violations which do not rise to a threshold for assigning a case to the CID Special Investigations Unit," the commander of the CID wrote in a September 29 letter declining the request. The prosecuting attorney for Arkansas' 12th Judicial District has also declined Campbell's request to investigate, saying the district doesn't have the technical resources to conduct such a probe. The prosecuting attorney went on to say the US Justice Department may have the legal authority to probe the matter.

Hey they looked at themselves and said "naw we wont charge ourselves its cool thanks though" and justice was done.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 07:00

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Series DD Funding posted:

The other story said he shot in the air.

Assault by firearm doesn't require you to shoot the gun at all, much less at someone.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 07:11

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

ToxicSlurpee posted:

There was air between him and the police. Ergo, it was at the police.

Pointing a gun is enough for aggravated assault in Arizona.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 07:12

Rah!: Feb 21, 2006

Still seems like overkill for an officer to blast onto the scene like Mario Andretti having a seizure, and ram him (and a wall) from behind, while he's walking away from other officers who are already there and following him. It's not the first time I've seen a video of a cop running down a dude from behind though...at least the guy was actually armed this time.

# ? Apr 15, 2015 07:38

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# ? May 28, 2024 08:22

treasured8elief: Jul 25, 2011; Salad Prong

FRINGE posted:

Oh those rascal "law enforcement" people!

You dont do the job. You dont understand. They cant possibly obey the law... because.

http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/04/lawyer-representing-whistle-blowers-finds-malware-on-drive-supplied-by-cops/

Hey they looked at themselves and said "naw we wont charge ourselves its cool thanks though" and justice was done.

I was expecting your news story to be a sensationalized headline, but Im reading the motions for sanctions and I'm surprised. It sounds like the plaintiffs have the department totally nailed on both destroying evidence and attempting to illegally access their lawyer's computer.

treasured8elief fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Apr 15, 2015

# ? Apr 15, 2015 08:34

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