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Yeah, we have a few folks who can fly in my party and it can get a bit wonky. Mostly the problem is making sure people are/aren't in bursts and blasts. Our main flying guy is a melee Avenger, so that kind of sorts itself out, since he can't really abuse it for more than avoiding weird terrain. I mean, it can be a big advantage, but it was the only thing he got out of his paragon path and tends to get him isolated.
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Apr 12, 2015 04:54
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The only time I remember really abusing flight was on a pixie warlock, flying three squares straight up to trigger shadow walk and then letting my altitude limit bring me back down for the next turn.
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Apr 12, 2015 05:21
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Pixie beastmaster ranger was sorta funny since it could use the raptor as a mount. Just fly around and shoot things from the sky.
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Apr 12, 2015 06:54
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Generic Octopus posted:Pixie beastmaster ranger was sorta funny since it could use the raptor as a mount. Just fly around and shoot things from the sky. I've had at least one encounter devolve into aerial dogfighting because of this.
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Apr 12, 2015 07:10
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Moriatti posted:So, is there a good way to do 3D combat in 4e? I'm adapting some old Planescape modules, and want to keep the weird astral plane/limbo stuff, but I'm not sure how to do that. Especially via Roll20. We mostly just handwave it now in Epic. Almost nobody CAN'T fly and those who can't can teleport across the map in a single move action and stand on the ceiling when they get there, so who cares? If you need to melee, you can melee. If you don't want things to melee you, they can melee you unless they're controlled somehow, broadly speaking.
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Apr 12, 2015 08:13
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Pixie Knight is pretty good because you can over hover someone's head and they can't move or shift at all without provoking.
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Apr 12, 2015 17:21
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It works even if they're large, too, because you can just sit comfortably in their space. Pixie Knights should be pretty decent; more so if you take the bafflingly Eladrin-only options and make them available to everyone, because then you can go full INT primary.
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Apr 12, 2015 17:40
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Started Zeitgeist adventure 2 "The Dying Skyseer" today. Played a few hours with it and my group absolutely loving LOVED it. Very heavy in roleplaying and light in combat. It's got that "open world" feel to it of just so much opportunity.
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Apr 13, 2015 05:08
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Mordiceius posted:Started Zeitgeist adventure 2 "The Dying Skyseer" today. Played a few hours with it and my group absolutely loving LOVED it. Very heavy in roleplaying and light in combat. It's got that "open world" feel to it of just so much opportunity.
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Apr 13, 2015 15:20
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dwarf74 posted:It's goddamn great. We're about to finish adventure 5. If you need any advice, let me know. I was a little nervous about running an adventure that was so open since this is a group of newbies. My last group had people experienced in tabletop gaming and when I ran Reavers of Harkenwold, it felt completely flat for them since they just didn't like having to actually think and explore and investigate. This group started taking notes and trying to connect different plot threads and stuff. So far, they are two days into the investigation and they still haven't met all the major players. It's fun giving them this information and seeing how they interpret it. One thing I did while acting as their supervisor in the RHC is ordered them to submit reports at the end of every game day as a check-up and it allows me to help point out if they've missed anything major. When they went to see the body in the first day, they didn't even think to try to check the room where the crime occurred or to ask any witnesses on the scene. They didn't trust the security officer but they never even tried to check on his story.  Though, this amazing exchanged happened with the secretary when they were trying to get information (about the Doctor) out of her. quote:
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Apr 14, 2015 00:13
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(Rogue): I approach the secretary. "It's a tragedy that happened."
(Secretary): "Yes, poor girl. And I feel so bad for her boyfriend."
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So looking at the 4E PbP games around theres always some extra stuff like bonus feats/inherent bonuses. I've been wanting to do a game too and was wondering what the most common house-rules are for 4E, and some brief reasoning on them
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Apr 14, 2015 02:27
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frajaq posted:So looking at the 4E PbP games around theres always some extra stuff like bonus feats/inherent bonuses. I've been wanting to do a game too and was wondering what the most common house-rules are for 4E, and some brief reasoning on them -Free Expertise, free Improved Defenses, and probably a free Melee Training or something similar, because the first two are outright math fixes to the base game sold as options, and many characters' effectiveness in a party hinges on whether they have a good basic attack or not. -Inherent bonuses because the item system in 4E is a really transparent grind to get your +1s and as a DM you will have to spend less time handing out gold and items just to make sure characters are baseline effective in a tactical minis game.
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Apr 14, 2015 02:31
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Alright thanks. another question: which 4E DnD setting would have something like a huge rear end hive city? Like someplace "modern" but still be able to have all kind of fantasy races together?
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Apr 14, 2015 03:33
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Strictly 4e stuff, I imagine you'd find something like that in Eberron. If you don't mind adapting some stuff to 4e, Planescape's Sigil is exactly the thing you're looking for. (I find it converts pretty easily too.)
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Apr 14, 2015 03:52
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Eberron doesn't have any "hive cities" per se but it DOES have Sharn which is essentially fantasy New York City built in a place where the magic geography makes constructing upwards easier than building outwards so its a huge multilayered city of towers.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:55
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The ones I used for my game, based on advice from this thread when I asked the same question: 1. Versatile Expertise - ensures that the characters don't fall behind on their attack bonuses 2. Improved Defenses - ensures that the characters don't fall behind on their defense bonuses 3. Melee Training - ensures that characters that use something besides STR as their primary attribute can still make effective Attacks of Opportunity 4. The one other bonus feat was just because I'm a nice guy Inherent Bonuses was also used so that there's less pressure to hand out lots of stuff. Even if your setting is traditional high-magic, it's still a good idea because it's less book-keeping for everyone. That said, #1 and #2 don't really come into play until at least level 5 or so, so you can either not need it if you don't expect the game to go that long, or just award it at a later date.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:55
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frajaq posted:So looking at the 4E PbP games around theres always some extra stuff like bonus feats/inherent bonuses. I've been wanting to do a game too and was wondering what the most common house-rules are for 4E, and some brief reasoning on them * Inherent Bonuses. Never running 4e without them again. If you have magic armor/amulet/weapon, it upgrades with your inherent bonuses. (I wouldn't do this if buying/crafting magic items was routine in my game.) * Free Expertise feat of choice * Free Melee Training (or superior similar feat such as Internalize the Basic Kata and Intelligent Blademaster). * Firearms get all your best bonuses for everything, just to encourage them as everyone's backup weapon. (This is for Zeitgeist, so...) * Making a character thematically in-tune with the setting nets you an extra point to spend on your stats. (Here, taking Zeitgeist themes.) I didn't end up giving Improved Defenses in the end, because when it comes down to it I hate feats, and having a few "well, duh" options out there saves some time.
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Apr 14, 2015 05:54
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One houserule I've always liked that I've seen in Arivia's Neverwinter game was "one free feat, but it can't be related to combat." 4e feats have the same combat vs noncombat disparity that 3e had, so making players actually think about getting a non-combat feat helps add depth to the characters.
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Apr 14, 2015 08:16
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ProfessorCirno posted:One houserule I've always liked that I've seen in Arivia's Neverwinter game was "one free feat, but it can't be related to combat." 4e feats have the same combat vs noncombat disparity that 3e had, so making players actually think about getting a non-combat feat helps add depth to the characters. Never actually ran with it, but I think sprinkling around free Disciple/Skill/Racial feats could be an interesting Thing. I think one time I was like "get a free non-combat feat at X level" but that led to some dumb poo poo about how I figured Initiative should be a "skill" for reasons that don't immediately make sense to me anymore. Also, has anyone done a homegame where they just replaced ENH+half-level+feat+whatever bonuses with just straight-up +Level? VVV Yeah I'm a luddite; gently caress the character-builder forever. P.d0t fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 08:25
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P.d0t posted:Also, has anyone done a homegame where they just replaced ENH+half-level+feat+whatever bonuses with just straight-up +Level? I had thought about doing that, but if I'm not mistaken that'd make it far more difficult for the character to be compatible with Character Builder, and I wasn't about to ask that much additional work out of the players. Maybe if you were doing something like PHB1-only to keep the bloat manageable.
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Apr 14, 2015 08:31
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I let players treat all skills as class skills and pick four trained skills. Classes don't give you automatic training in a skill, you get five if you're human. Reasoning: everyone should be equally able to contribute through skill use, people wanted to do stuff like *okay that's a really bad example, could have sworn Warlocks got that automatically, but you know what I mean. Call it paladins and religion, same principle. One or two of my guys have accidentally picked four skills on top of their automatic training. Works just as well. e: Magic items scaling with your inherent bonus is pretty neat, hadn't considered that but right now I'm in a mood to simplify my game a little. My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 08:56
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I do inherent bonuses, expertise feat, improved defenses. I also take a step towards DTAS and say that your primary stat applies to your (first) class's powers. Helps give some more options to W and V classes. I wish I could go full DTAS but I like using the Character Builder. It's easy just to cross out one stat in the powers after printing the cards.
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Apr 14, 2015 12:02
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My Lovely Horse posted:
Scale the item bonuses, and if it's an item that actually upgrades its powers/damage expressions/whatever by level or tier, give them the better version when they reach the next item's level (which is later than the L+2 moment where they could reasonably find it, but better than "never").
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Apr 14, 2015 14:12
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ProfessorCirno posted:One houserule I've always liked that I've seen in Arivia's Neverwinter game was "one free feat, but it can't be related to combat." 4e feats have the same combat vs noncombat disparity that 3e had, so making players actually think about getting a non-combat feat helps add depth to the characters. That was my suggestion, along with a free 'teamwork' feat (like the tribal or guild stuff) at the same level. It worked out pretty well I think.
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Apr 14, 2015 14:44
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homullus posted:Scale the item bonuses, and if it's an item that actually upgrades its powers/damage expressions/whatever by level or tier, give them the better version when they reach the next item's level (which is later than the L+2 moment where they could reasonably find it, but better than "never"). I started with that way of doing things, but switched to the simpler way after it got confusing. It wasn't worth the overhead. Like I mentioned, there's not much magic item shopping or crafting, so I'm not too concerned.
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Apr 14, 2015 15:03
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dwarf74 posted:I started with that way of doing things, but switched to the simpler way after it got confusing. It wasn't worth the overhead. I was able to count on my players reminding me that their thing was upgraded. I don't think there are that many, percentage-wise, that change things other than the item bonus.
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Apr 14, 2015 15:17
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AXE COP posted:That was my suggestion, along with a free 'teamwork' feat (like the tribal or guild stuff) at the same level. It worked out pretty well I think. You all took a secret language feat you've never used. 😛
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Apr 14, 2015 15:18
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Arivia posted:You all took a secret language feat you've never used. 😛 I have so many characters that would make sense to have Linguist but I just can't justify taking it over actually useful feats.
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Apr 14, 2015 15:22
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djw175 posted:I have so many characters that would make sense to have Linguist but I just can't justify taking it over actually useful feats. There is that thing that lets you get a bonus to Insight checks equal to your number of languages (if I remember it correctly). That could be useful in some campaigns.
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Apr 14, 2015 15:27
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Scholar + Travellers Insight = 35 passive insight at level 11.
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Apr 14, 2015 15:34
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Has Insider broken for anyone else? The compendium is getting a server error and the builder isn't working at all.
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Apr 14, 2015 15:36
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Arivia posted:You all took a secret language feat you've never used. 😛 It also provided a Bluff bonus, but none of them have the training and ability to use it. djw175 posted:I have so many characters that would make sense to have Linguist but I just can't justify taking it over actually useful feats. For some weird reason none of the Eberron races speak more than one language (only other race with just Common is the bladeling). Kalashtar at least have telepathy, but changelings are supposed to be masters of disguise and had mastery of language back in 3e. I usually wind up going scholar on a changeling, though a Dex/Cha build doesn't really get much out of Scholar and don't have the Int for Linguist. It's very annoying.
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Apr 14, 2015 18:19
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LightWarden posted:It also provided a Bluff bonus, but none of them have the training and ability to use it. Changeling can get at least one more language with Becomer. Also a bonus to a skill and being much harder to see through your disguise.
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Apr 14, 2015 18:36
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If there's anything Zeitgeist adventure 2 has taught me, it is that D&D is way more fun when there is way less combat.
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Apr 16, 2015 05:38
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Mordiceius posted:If there's anything Zeitgeist adventure 2 has taught me, it is that D&D is way more fun when there is way less combat. Seconded. The Zeitgeist adventures were what confirmed to me that my taste has shifted: fewer but more interesting combats over more but faster combats.
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Apr 16, 2015 16:52
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I've made a houserule for 13th Age-style backgrounds for my game, and it could be working better. We started out attempting to just use the background system wholesale in place of skills. Didn't work because skilly are too ingrained in the system, so we set it up like this: you get your trained skills as well as a freely phrased background, and whenever there's a skill roll and we agree that someone with that specific background would be better at this, you get a +3 bonus. Gotta be phrased so it can apply to many skills but not so it always applies to one skill. The backgrounds my group came up with were a huge help to us in fleshing out the setting, but what I've noticed tends to happen is that some backgrounds are open enough so they can apply to almost anything while others barely ever get used. I'm thinking of pitching something to my group that's more well-defined and rooted in 4E mechanics. The existing backgrounds where you get +2 to one skill seem a bad fit for the multifaceted stuff my group came up with. Yesterday I posted this in the NEXT thread: My Lovely Horse posted:I would probably condense that down even further to something like "+x to attempts to escape the restrained condition" (assuming it's a defined condition). You're in prison with guards who tied you up, you get the bonus to bluffing the guards. You're in prison and the guards tied you up and left, because your DM got wise to your bluffing trick, you get the bonus to Endurance because you held your breath or Athletics because you straight up snap the ropes, or whatever. You're in combat and a big spider just webbed you, you get the bonus to (what would in 4E be) your saving throw. It's hard to balance. For one thing, there's no reason someone couldn't give himself a background of "animal specialist" and argue that whoops, he gets a bonus to attack rolls versus all animals. (Then again, would that be so bad?) Conditions seem like a good fit for an interaction basis, but might not readily apply to a background. Actually it's just hard to integrate with 4E as it is in general. I'm still very much at the drawing board with this one, but if anyone wants to play around with the idea, the backgrounds my folks came up with are: - Hunts the Undead (comes up all the time, but we're entering a big chapter full of undead, so it probably should!) - Seasoned Traveller (comes up even more often, there's little you can argue it can't do) - Sells Royalty to Dragons (situational, mostly comes up when interacting with either group) - Hears Voices from the Astral Plane (again, there's little it can't help with) - Cook at the Royal Court (has never been used - would work really well for diplomacy at court or sneaking in somewhere but somehow...)
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Apr 17, 2015 12:05
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I mention this specifically as an alternative to trying to replace or supplement the skills, backgrounds, and non-combat feats rules. There is basically a lot of, at least mildly, playtested material out there which covers the same ground but ends up competing for build resources. Maybe let players writeup these backgrounds as pseudo-themes that give them access to a set of noncombat feats and utility powers. Hears Voices from the Astral Plan This character is constantly given advice, warnings, and clues from astral voices only they can hear. These creatures may or may not be angels, and they may or may not be benevolent.
This gives you something reasonably flavorful, while still using the game's basic rules framework. wallawallawingwang fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Apr 17, 2015 |
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Apr 17, 2015 20:57
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Selachian posted:Seconded. The Zeitgeist adventures were what confirmed to me that my taste has shifted: fewer but more interesting combats over more but faster combats. Zeitgeist is just really good, you guys.
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Apr 17, 2015 22:20
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Selachian posted:Seconded. The Zeitgeist adventures were what confirmed to me that my taste has shifted: fewer but more interesting combats over more but faster combats. I think the way 4e is built kinda naturally nudges you that way- I've been tinkering with a dungeon and have found myself dropping and merging combat encounters to make the ones that exist more interesting. This is probably the biggest shift from prior editions- there's less gradual attrition of resources and more focus on the encounter.
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Apr 17, 2015 23:50
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My Lovely Horse posted:The backgrounds my group came up with were a huge help to us in fleshing out the setting, but what I've noticed tends to happen is that some backgrounds are open enough so they can apply to almost anything while others barely ever get used. This happens even in 13th Age itself is the thing, I have one player in particular whose background of "Former Lieutenant in the Lich King's Army" is used for almost everything. There really isn't anything actually wrong with this though, I don't think.
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Apr 18, 2015 01:19
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