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I don't think the rules are that clear. There's not enough evidence to prosecute in any case. e: it's certainly possible, of course Peel fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Apr 16, 2015 |
# ? Apr 16, 2015 12:07 |
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# ? May 23, 2024 04:48 |
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Also from what I've read, there actually was a Hugo rules change about online posting being recognized as "First publication"...in 2009, basically around the same time as Amazon really started pushing their ebook self-publishing market. Oldest sci-fi award behind the times on adapting to current realities of publishing, film at 11.
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# ? Apr 16, 2015 12:53 |
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So I read the Three Body Problem thanks to this thread. It was a great read. However, apparently there will be a sequel, which at least to me seems like a bad idea. The ending is perfectly OK for a first contact story, and I see no good way for the story to continue. Authors should really know when to let a story go. Classic sci-fi/fantasy writers had no problems writing stand-alone books and I kinda miss that nowadays.
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# ? Apr 16, 2015 15:39 |
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It's a trilogy actually. My wife has read them all in Chinese and said the first book is the weakest of the three.
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# ? Apr 16, 2015 15:40 |
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3BP is also the current TBB book of the month, if people want to park thoughts about it somewhere.
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# ? Apr 16, 2015 15:46 |
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Cardiac posted:So I read the Three Body Problem thanks to this thread. I agree with you in the cases where authors want to write long drawn-out series that span multiple books, however in a lot of cases a series length can be down to publishers. The Expanse or Song of Ice & Fire, for example, were never meant to be as long as they've now become. I wouldn't mind a lot more stand-alones though. It's probably why China Mieville is one of my favorite authors, since practically all his books are stand-alones.
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# ? Apr 16, 2015 15:57 |
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I'm generally in favour of standalones, but the problem presented at the end of 3BP is a pretty good one. How do you undertake science in those conditions? So I'm curious what Liu has to say about that, though he's detectably not a research scientist.
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# ? Apr 16, 2015 16:02 |
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Mars4523 posted:That's what I said (on the Space Opera thread, but still)! The plot is weak but the characters are nonexistent. Everyone but the white male lead is a last name and an archetype. The white male lead also has a first name to go with his archetype. Remember, they also nominated a Kevin J Anderson book. Pickings were pretty slim.
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# ? Apr 16, 2015 16:43 |
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i81icu812 posted:Remember, they also nominated a Kevin J Anderson book. Pickings were pretty slim. Hilariously enough, various puppies have been pointing to the fact that KJA has never had a Hugo nomination before this year as evidence that the Hugo's are broken. The phrase "titan of in the field" has been used.
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# ? Apr 16, 2015 17:42 |
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occamsnailfile posted:A further revisitation of "publication" is probably on the slate for discussion for later years, along with the nomination process and etcetera. I can't say that the Puppies have no point there, but Scalzi is probably right: times change. Ten years ago, putting up one's fiction for free was some quaint thing Cory Doctorow weirdos did, these days it's a common promotional tactic even with big name authors and anthologies or magazines gathering up an already-famous story for publication does sort of seem like a reprint. Baen did this to the point of including free CD-ROMS with libraries of work within hardcovers - http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/ is a repository of many of the CDs. They had them available online back in 1999 and started including CD-ROMs in 2002 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baen_Free_Library
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# ? Apr 16, 2015 19:27 |
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Patrick Spens posted:Hilariously enough, various puppies have been pointing to the fact that KJA has never had a Hugo nomination before this year as evidence that the Hugo's are broken. The phrase "titan of in the field" has been used. King poo poo Giant of Mount Turdington deserves this award!
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# ? Apr 16, 2015 20:19 |
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ShutteredIn posted:King poo poo Giant of Mount Turdington deserves this award! I'm broadly sympathetic to puppies' claims of cliquishness and a liberal tilt, but man they are making it hard to take them seriously sometimes. sky shark posted:Baen did this to the point of including free CD-ROMS with libraries of work within hardcovers - http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/ is a repository of many of the CDs. They had them available online back in 1999 and started including CD-ROMs in 2002 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baen_Free_Library Yeah, Baen's always been really ahead of the curve when it comes to epublishing and using free books as a promotional tactic. But correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they usually put out stuff that had already been published? I mean, it's certainly possible that whoever was in charge of decision making is trying to stick it to Wright, but non-conspiracy explanations are also possible. Patrick Spens fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Apr 16, 2015 |
# ? Apr 16, 2015 20:49 |
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Cardiac posted:So I read the Three Body Problem thanks to this thread. OK, so the ending was in no way a MASSIVE CLIFFHANGER for you? Personally I thought it was a perfect ending ... for a first book in a trilogy. I wouldn't blame publishers really for trilogies. It's well known now that trilogies don't do so hot, even if the first book does. I think it's more they were popular, the author has the trilogy arc in mind, and the publisher isn't going to try and condense that. That said I do think trilogies are pretty popular in YA dystopian style stuff. What we need is more authors presenting high quality stand alone stuff. Or better yet, in the vein of Asmiov's YA stuff, have a character that is in multiple story arcs but which don't constitute a strict trilogy or series (maybe even like Matthew Reilly and his Scarecrow books).
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# ? Apr 16, 2015 21:00 |
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thehomemaster posted:
Trilogies used to do okay, back before the 90s, roughly when book distribution to grocery stores and return-heavy model of distribution really came into effect. The problem was that under that new model, the first book of a trilogy would come out, do okay, and then it would almost immediately go out of print--so when the second book came out, the first might very well not be available. I am sure you see the problem. This happened as the internet was developing and most casual readers didn't subscribe to newsletters, assuming there even was one for their preferred author, so they would very easily miss the brief blip that was part two or three of a trilogy coming out before they were deemed failures and returned. I'm not advocating for trilogies mind, I'd rather that stories run as long as the author genuinely has material for, one book or one hundred. Just outside of really successful series franchises there were just structural problems making it harder to sell linked books. That's still happening but internet distribution in all it's forms makes it easier to sustain that model.
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# ? Apr 16, 2015 21:08 |
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I would posit that the amount of noise out there hampers trilogies as well, unless it's big and well marketed.
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# ? Apr 16, 2015 21:31 |
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The problem with trilogies is if it is anything halfway popular the publishers love to release only a hardcover version of the final book and hold off on the paperback for a year. Nearly as maddening as books being released in hardcover and charging 20 some-odd dollars for the ebook version as well.
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# ? Apr 16, 2015 22:27 |
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thehomemaster posted:OK, so the ending was in no way a MASSIVE CLIFFHANGER for you? Cliffhangert? It is more like a big coitus interruptus! I understand the extent and depth of the story requires to break it into several volumes, but gently caress! I can't wait for the next one!
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# ? Apr 16, 2015 23:01 |
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That's kind of the point.
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# ? Apr 16, 2015 23:04 |
Patrick Spens posted:I'm broadly sympathetic to puppies' claims of cliquishness and a liberal tilt, but man they are making it hard to take them seriously sometimes. By doing the equivalent of pissing in the pool so no one can swim just because they don't like the pool's management, they've made irrelevant any valid points they may have had. I sincerely hope that "no award" places above anyone on a puppies slate who didn't refuse the nomination, even if they're not affiliated with the puppies at all and even if it means that no award is given.
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 00:02 |
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Selachian posted:Well, to his credit, Marko Kloos has decided to withdraw from the Hugos because he doesn't want to be associated with Vox Day. Annie Bellet, whose "Goodnight Stars" was up in Best Short Story, has also withdrawn. They are eating their own: http://monsterhunternation.com/2015/04/15/well-this-sucks-2/ https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/04/09/gulag-diary-day-6/
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 00:32 |
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The Hugos are definitely cliquish with a liberal bent, but if they were intending to demonstrate this is excluding a lot of worthy people and fiction from consideration they've scored a bit of an own goal.
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 00:46 |
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Peel posted:The Hugos are definitely cliquish with a liberal bent, but if they were intending to demonstrate this is excluding a lot of worthy people and fiction from consideration they've scored a bit of an own goal. Cliquish maybe, but liberal bent I don't buy--GRRM went through recent years debunking that himself, and if you ask any five liberal-literary-SJW type fans they'll give you five different books they'd rather see and five reasons they feel the Hugos are flawed and reactionary. They just never formed a cabal and manipulated the nominations--man, imagining trying to even get enough 'liberal' fans to agree on something like that gives me a headache. Part of the problem of course is that Puppies brand anything left of their very-rightwards selves, or even anyone who just disagrees with their slating tactics as a blanket 'liberal!!!' which is...absurd.
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 00:54 |
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Well really that's just politics in general. Nothing out of the ordinary.
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 01:35 |
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Hey, looks like with Kloos declining the nomination that The Three-Body Problem is now on the best novel list!
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 02:44 |
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fritz posted:They are eating their own: http://monsterhunternation.com/2015/04/15/well-this-sucks-2/ https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/04/09/gulag-diary-day-6/ Some of the comments on that Correia blog article are hilarious. It's almost like something out of Freep. quote:Jeff Gauch, on April 16, 2015 at 12:06 am said: quote:Joshua, on April 16, 2015 at 7:30 pm said: quote:Achilles, on April 16, 2015 at 12:14 am said: quote:KMarks, on April 16, 2015 at 12:29 am said: quote:Joshua Sinistar, on April 16, 2015 at 4:34 am said:
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 03:04 |
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Khizan posted:Some of the comments on that Correia blog article are hilarious. It's almost like something out of Freep. Over the past several months, I have become firmly convinced that anyone who unironically uses the phrase "SJW" is mentally defective. quote:Doctor Locketopus says: Or maybe he already knows about these complaints, and is capable of reacting to criticism maturely instead of getting defensive like a whiny crybaby.
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 03:52 |
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I remember that Red Knight was discussed a bit here a little while back, so a question for those of you who've read it (and the sequel) - how many de Vrailly chapters are there, and does he get taken down a peg at any point? I'm about a third through the book and really enjoying everything else about it, but holy gently caress is this guy is the most annoying character ever to read about, and from the narrative arc I'm guessing he's in for a line of unbroken triumphs and increasing power until the end game of the trilogy, and I'm not sure I can stand that much more of him murdering people and being smug.
Apraxin fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Apr 17, 2015 |
# ? Apr 17, 2015 03:56 |
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Apraxin posted:I remember that Red Knight was discussed a bit here a little while back, so a question for those of you who've read it (and the sequel) - how many de Vrailly chapters are there, and does he get taken down a peg at any point? I'm about a third through the book and really enjoying everything else about it, but holy gently caress is this guy is the most annoying character ever to read about, and from the narrative arc I'm guessing he's in for a line of unbroken triumphs and increasing power until the end game of the trilogy, and I'm not sure I can stand that much more of him murdering people and being smug. Hmmm -- I'm trying to remember. I don't recall that this bothered me by the end of the second book, but I know what you're talking about from the early part of the first book. So I'm inclined to think that at some point he does get taken down, at least somewhat (even if, perhaps, he doesn't fully realize it). I don't particularly recall the specifics, but in any event, if you're otherwise enjoying the book so far, it's definitely worth finishing and the sequel was pretty solid as well.
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 04:28 |
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Venusian Weasel posted:Hey, looks like with Kloos declining the nomination that The Three-Body Problem is now on the best novel list! Yes! A book that actually deserves to be there!
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 04:51 |
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thehomemaster posted:Yes! A book that actually deserves to be there! Uh, Goblin Emperor? __/
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 05:04 |
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Looks like noted leftist SJW gendertraitor Tim O'Neil already spoiled the winner of the Short Story Hugo on his website. This is pretty dope stuff!http://whenwillthehurtingstop.blogspot.com/2015/04/the-winner-of-hugo-award-for-best-short.html posted:On a dry planet on a distant arm of a distant galaxy, there was war! The wheels of conquest and heroism had rolled across the barren sands of the unnamed world, grinding the bones of the weak under the tread of laser tanks, and greasing the gears of the nuclear-powered rail guns that leveled entire mountain ranges with a single titanic shot!
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 05:09 |
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Hedrigall posted:Uh, Goblin Emperor? OK OK, the second one. The Goblin Emperor is in my TBR though.
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 05:17 |
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Apraxin posted:I remember that Red Knight was discussed a bit here a little while back, so a question for those of you who've read it (and the sequel) - how many de Vrailly chapters are there, and does he get taken down a peg at any point? I'm about a third through the book and really enjoying everything else about it, but holy gently caress is this guy is the most annoying character ever to read about, and from the narrative arc I'm guessing he's in for a line of unbroken triumphs and increasing power until the end game of the trilogy, and I'm not sure I can stand that much more of him murdering people and being smug. IIRC, he does suffer some setbacks in this book, due mainly to the behavior you mention. I think that same behavior/attitude prevents him from actually acknowledging it though.
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 05:19 |
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angel opportunity posted:It's a trilogy actually. My wife has read them all in Chinese and said the first book is the weakest of the three. That is somewhat promising. The reception of the the rest of the series will be interesting. thehomemaster posted:OK, so the ending was in no way a MASSIVE CLIFFHANGER for you? Nah, I thought it more as a perfect place to end. Given the technology level and the time frame for what will happen, the ending was perfectly OK for a first contact story. Similar things have been done in other stand-alone books and worked out just fine. What I liked about 3BP was the historical setting of China, the 3BP game with the historical characters and the mystery. Given the ending, most of these things should be irrelevant for the future story and I am afraid it will turn out to be a rather generic "inferior humans struggling versus superior aliens" story line. It is however written by a Chinese (?), so another perspective on scifi that is not Western-based is always interesting.
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 07:26 |
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Ok book request time. A couple of months ago I read a preview of a book that should be out or due now. The premise was of a man and a woman who somehow got expanded to such a colossal size that every step literally caused earthquakes. It sounded interesting and I thought i'd made a note of the title, but either i didn't or i've lost it. Anyone know what i'm talking about?
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 12:57 |
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I'm sick to gently caress of this topic, tbh, but this writer made some interesting points.quote:Nor is it the case, despite what the Puppies imagine, that literary ambition is the province only of the left. Much of the best literary science fiction has been written by writers whose politics are right-wing: aside from Gene Wolfe, this includes Jack Vance, R.A. Lafferty, Robert Silverberg, and Dan Simmons. To take one example: Robert Silverberg is a conservative but his best novel, Dying Inside, is a story of a telepath, rich with allusions to Kafka and Saul Bellow—writers Silverberg was emulating. The faux-populism of the Puppy brigade is actually insulting to the right, since it assumes that conservatives can’t be interested in high culture. http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121554/2015-hugo-awards-and-history-science-fiction-culture-wars
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 15:57 |
Cardiac posted:Nah, I thought it more as a perfect place to end. I felt the same way, so you're not alone. Although I wouldn't say that 3BP is stronger as a stand-alone than a trilogy would be, I do think it is perfectly capable of satisfying readers as a self-contained story. I've worried that the sequels will be a let-down, as happens so often, so it's good to hear from Chinese readers that they are possibly even stronger than 3BP. In any case it wasn't such a tease that I can't bide my time for the next entry, which is all that a trilogy-opener can hope to accomplish.
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 18:24 |
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3BP was somewhat choppy despite being interesting, so if the sequels are better we could have a classic on our hands.
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 18:25 |
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Megazver posted:Found it! This guy reads like someone trying to ape Chesterton.
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 20:20 |
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# ? May 23, 2024 04:48 |
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Hit the nail on the head. I had sex with John C. Wright once and the Ape Chesterton is like, literally the only position he knows.
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# ? Apr 17, 2015 20:41 |