The Science Fiction and Fantasy Thread: Read the OP, Bridge of Birds, and Murderbot

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > The Science Fiction and Fantasy Thread: Read the OP, Bridge of Birds, and Murderbot

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Peel: Dec 3, 2007

I don't think the rules are that clear. There's not enough evidence to prosecute in any case.

e: it's certainly possible, of course

Peel fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Apr 16, 2015

# ? Apr 16, 2015 12:07

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# ? May 24, 2024 00:47

unseenlibrarian: Jun 4, 2012; There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.

Also from what I've read, there actually was a Hugo rules change about online posting being recognized as "First publication"...in 2009, basically around the same time as Amazon really started pushing their ebook self-publishing market.

Oldest sci-fi award behind the times on adapting to current realities of publishing, film at 11.

# ? Apr 16, 2015 12:53

Cardiac: Aug 28, 2012

So I read the Three Body Problem thanks to this thread.
It was a great read.
However, apparently there will be a sequel, which at least to me seems like a bad idea. The ending is perfectly OK for a first contact story, and I see no good way for the story to continue.
Authors should really know when to let a story go.
Classic sci-fi/fantasy writers had no problems writing stand-alone books and I kinda miss that nowadays.

# ? Apr 16, 2015 15:39

angel opportunity: Sep 7, 2004; Total Eclipse of the Heart

It's a trilogy actually. My wife has read them all in Chinese and said the first book is the weakest of the three.

# ? Apr 16, 2015 15:40

Peel: Dec 3, 2007

3BP is also the current TBB book of the month, if people want to park thoughts about it somewhere.

# ? Apr 16, 2015 15:46

Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi: Mar 26, 2005

Cardiac posted:

So I read the Three Body Problem thanks to this thread.
It was a great read.
However, apparently there will be a sequel, which at least to me seems like a bad idea. The ending is perfectly OK for a first contact story, and I see no good way for the story to continue.
Authors should really know when to let a story go.
Classic sci-fi/fantasy writers had no problems writing stand-alone books and I kinda miss that nowadays.

I agree with you in the cases where authors want to write long drawn-out series that span multiple books, however in a lot of cases a series length can be down to publishers. The Expanse or Song of Ice & Fire, for example, were never meant to be as long as they've now become.

I wouldn't mind a lot more stand-alones though. It's probably why China Mieville is one of my favorite authors, since practically all his books are stand-alones.

# ? Apr 16, 2015 15:57

Peel: Dec 3, 2007

I'm generally in favour of standalones, but the problem presented at the end of 3BP is a pretty good one. How do you undertake science in those conditions? So I'm curious what Liu has to say about that, though he's detectably not a research scientist.

# ? Apr 16, 2015 16:02

i81icu812: Dec 5, 2006

Mars4523 posted:

That's what I said (on the Space Opera thread, but still)! The plot is weak but the characters are nonexistent. Everyone but the white male lead is a last name and an archetype. The white male lead also has a first name to go with his archetype.

I'm just amazed that somebody enjoyed the book enough to remember it, let alone put it on a "This is 'Popular' (for White Men) Sci Fi" slate. gently caress, I'm pretty sure there's a Baen book released in the right time frame that was more readable.

Remember, they also nominated a Kevin J Anderson book. Pickings were pretty slim.

# ? Apr 16, 2015 16:43

Patrick Spens: Jul 21, 2006; "Every quarterback says they've got guts, But how many have actually seen 'em?"; Pillbug

i81icu812 posted:

Remember, they also nominated a Kevin J Anderson book. Pickings were pretty slim.

Hilariously enough, various puppies have been pointing to the fact that KJA has never had a Hugo nomination before this year as evidence that the Hugo's are broken. The phrase "titan of in the field" has been used.

# ? Apr 16, 2015 17:42

sky shark: Jun 9, 2004; CHILD RAPE IS FINE WHEN I LIKE THE RAPIST

occamsnailfile posted:

A further revisitation of "publication" is probably on the slate for discussion for later years, along with the nomination process and etcetera. I can't say that the Puppies have no point there, but Scalzi is probably right: times change. Ten years ago, putting up one's fiction for free was some quaint thing Cory Doctorow weirdos did, these days it's a common promotional tactic even with big name authors and anthologies or magazines gathering up an already-famous story for publication does sort of seem like a reprint.

Baen did this to the point of including free CD-ROMS with libraries of work within hardcovers - http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/ is a repository of many of the CDs. They had them available online back in 1999 and started including CD-ROMs in 2002 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baen_Free_Library

# ? Apr 16, 2015 19:27

ShutteredIn: Mar 24, 2005; El Campeon Mundial del Acordeon

Patrick Spens posted:

Hilariously enough, various puppies have been pointing to the fact that KJA has never had a Hugo nomination before this year as evidence that the Hugo's are broken. The phrase "titan of in the field" has been used.

King poo poo Giant of Mount Turdington deserves this award!

# ? Apr 16, 2015 20:19

Patrick Spens: Jul 21, 2006; "Every quarterback says they've got guts, But how many have actually seen 'em?"; Pillbug

ShutteredIn posted:

King poo poo Giant of Mount Turdington deserves this award!

I'm broadly sympathetic to puppies' claims of cliquishness and a liberal tilt, but man they are making it hard to take them seriously sometimes.

sky shark posted:

Baen did this to the point of including free CD-ROMS with libraries of work within hardcovers - http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/ is a repository of many of the CDs. They had them available online back in 1999 and started including CD-ROMs in 2002 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baen_Free_Library

Yeah, Baen's always been really ahead of the curve when it comes to epublishing and using free books as a promotional tactic. But correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they usually put out stuff that had already been published? I mean, it's certainly possible that whoever was in charge of decision making is trying to stick it to Wright, but non-conspiracy explanations are also possible.

Patrick Spens fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Apr 16, 2015

# ? Apr 16, 2015 20:49

thehomemaster: Jul 16, 2014; by Ralp

Cardiac posted:

So I read the Three Body Problem thanks to this thread.
It was a great read.
However, apparently there will be a sequel, which at least to me seems like a bad idea. The ending is perfectly OK for a first contact story, and I see no good way for the story to continue.
Authors should really know when to let a story go.
Classic sci-fi/fantasy writers had no problems writing stand-alone books and I kinda miss that nowadays.

OK, so the ending was in no way a MASSIVE CLIFFHANGER for you?

Personally I thought it was a perfect ending ... for a first book in a trilogy.

I wouldn't blame publishers really for trilogies. It's well known now that trilogies don't do so hot, even if the first book does. I think it's more they were popular, the author has the trilogy arc in mind, and the publisher isn't going to try and condense that. That said I do think trilogies are pretty popular in YA dystopian style stuff.

What we need is more authors presenting high quality stand alone stuff.

Or better yet, in the vein of Asmiov's YA stuff, have a character that is in multiple story arcs but which don't constitute a strict trilogy or series (maybe even like Matthew Reilly and his Scarecrow books).

# ? Apr 16, 2015 21:00

occamsnailfile: Nov 4, 2007; zamtrios so lonely; Grimey Drawer

thehomemaster posted:

I wouldn't blame publishers really for trilogies. It's well known now that trilogies don't do so hot, even if the first book does. I think it's more they were popular, the author has the trilogy arc in mind, and the publisher isn't going to try and condense that. That said I do think trilogies are pretty popular in YA dystopian style stuff.

What we need is more authors presenting high quality stand alone stuff.

Or better yet, in the vein of Asmiov's YA stuff, have a character that is in multiple story arcs but which don't constitute a strict trilogy or series (maybe even like Matthew Reilly and his Scarecrow books).

Trilogies used to do okay, back before the 90s, roughly when book distribution to grocery stores and return-heavy model of distribution really came into effect. The problem was that under that new model, the first book of a trilogy would come out, do okay, and then it would almost immediately go out of print--so when the second book came out, the first might very well not be available. I am sure you see the problem. This happened as the internet was developing and most casual readers didn't subscribe to newsletters, assuming there even was one for their preferred author, so they would very easily miss the brief blip that was part two or three of a trilogy coming out before they were deemed failures and returned.

I'm not advocating for trilogies mind, I'd rather that stories run as long as the author genuinely has material for, one book or one hundred. Just outside of really successful series franchises there were just structural problems making it harder to sell linked books. That's still happening but internet distribution in all it's forms makes it easier to sustain that model.

# ? Apr 16, 2015 21:08

thehomemaster: Jul 16, 2014; by Ralp

I would posit that the amount of noise out there hampers trilogies as well, unless it's big and well marketed.

# ? Apr 16, 2015 21:31

darnon: Nov 8, 2009

The problem with trilogies is if it is anything halfway popular the publishers love to release only a hardcover version of the final book and hold off on the paperback for a year. Nearly as maddening as books being released in hardcover and charging 20 some-odd dollars for the ebook version as well.

# ? Apr 16, 2015 22:27

Amberskin: Dec 22, 2013; We come in peace! Legit!

thehomemaster posted:

OK, so the ending was in no way a MASSIVE CLIFFHANGER for you?

Cliffhangert? It is more like a big coitus interruptus!

I understand the extent and depth of the story requires to break it into several volumes, but gently caress! I can't wait for the next one!

# ? Apr 16, 2015 23:01

thehomemaster: Jul 16, 2014; by Ralp

That's kind of the point.

# ? Apr 16, 2015 23:04

Azathoth: Apr 3, 2001

Patrick Spens posted:

I'm broadly sympathetic to puppies' claims of cliquishness and a liberal tilt, but man they are making it hard to take them seriously sometimes.

They crossed the line for me when it started to be about getting every spot in a category, rather than getting something on the ballot. What they're doing is retaliation for being made to look like fools last year when some of their chosen candidates placed below "no award".

By doing the equivalent of pissing in the pool so no one can swim just because they don't like the pool's management, they've made irrelevant any valid points they may have had.

I sincerely hope that "no award" places above anyone on a puppies slate who didn't refuse the nomination, even if they're not affiliated with the puppies at all and even if it means that no award is given.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 00:02

fritz: Jul 26, 2003

Selachian posted:

Well, to his credit, Marko Kloos has decided to withdraw from the Hugos because he doesn't want to be associated with Vox Day. Annie Bellet, whose "Goodnight Stars" was up in Best Short Story, has also withdrawn.

They are eating their own: http://monsterhunternation.com/2015/04/15/well-this-sucks-2/ https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/04/09/gulag-diary-day-6/

# ? Apr 17, 2015 00:32

Peel: Dec 3, 2007

The Hugos are definitely cliquish with a liberal bent, but if they were intending to demonstrate this is excluding a lot of worthy people and fiction from consideration they've scored a bit of an own goal.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 00:46

occamsnailfile: Nov 4, 2007; zamtrios so lonely; Grimey Drawer

Peel posted:

The Hugos are definitely cliquish with a liberal bent, but if they were intending to demonstrate this is excluding a lot of worthy people and fiction from consideration they've scored a bit of an own goal.

Cliquish maybe, but liberal bent I don't buy--GRRM went through recent years debunking that himself, and if you ask any five liberal-literary-SJW type fans they'll give you five different books they'd rather see and five reasons they feel the Hugos are flawed and reactionary. They just never formed a cabal and manipulated the nominations--man, imagining trying to even get enough 'liberal' fans to agree on something like that gives me a headache. Part of the problem of course is that Puppies brand anything left of their very-rightwards selves, or even anyone who just disagrees with their slating tactics as a blanket 'liberal!!!' which is...absurd.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 00:54

thehomemaster: Jul 16, 2014; by Ralp

Well really that's just politics in general. Nothing out of the ordinary.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 01:35

Venusian Weasel: Nov 18, 2011

Hey, looks like with Kloos declining the nomination that The Three-Body Problem is now on the best novel list!

# ? Apr 17, 2015 02:44

Khizan: Jul 30, 2013

fritz posted:

They are eating their own: http://monsterhunternation.com/2015/04/15/well-this-sucks-2/ https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/04/09/gulag-diary-day-6/

Some of the comments on that Correia blog article are hilarious. It's almost like something out of Freep.

quote:

Jeff Gauch, on April 16, 2015 at 12:06 am said:

I hope you realize that Vox Day is a far better human being that you are. For one thing, he isn�t a vile Progressive, so that�s a good million shithead points knocked off his tally. Plus he�s at least honest about his positions, questionable as they may be. He doesn�t mewl around playing passive-agressive bullshit games.

Since you�re big into denouncing: With sincere heart and unfeigned faith I abjure, curse, and detest you.

quote:

Joshua, on April 16, 2015 at 7:30 pm said:

Contrary to what you�ve been taught by several generations now of cultural Marxist teachers, McCarthy was 1) polite and professional, and 2) correct about Soviet spies.

All kinds of things, including especially the Venona Project. have proven McCarthy right. Own McCarthyism. It wasn�t anything like what the progressives have lied to us for years and said it was.

Heck, McCarthy wasn�t even very right wing.

quote:

Achilles, on April 16, 2015 at 12:14 am said:

I get that Bellett and Kloos were under extreme pressure. But I�ve only got so many dollars and I�m not going to waste them on writers who capitulate to the SJW crowd. This is war, there is no middle ground, and they chose a side. And it�s the side that consider us wrongfans.

quote:

KMarks, on April 16, 2015 at 12:29 am said:

For those of you huffing and puffing over how much you hate and despise Vox Day, have the decency to mitigate your ignorance by reading the interview of Vox day by John Brown, who does have the decency to examine the man�s actual words and positions. Vox Day is refreshing in a world dominated by SJW scum. Brown�s interview and article is at http://www.johndbrown.com/what-vox-day-believes/. Pay particular attention to the comments after the piece.

quote:

Joshua Sinistar, on April 16, 2015 at 4:34 am said:

What do you mean don�t blame them? They�re both loving cowards. Let them rot and don�t give them a red cent. Any writer who is willing to conform to anything but their own vision or muse is just a whore with a pen, no better than a hack who writes anything for a buck.
These fuckers who want to live on their knees to those crazy gay overlords can kiss my rear end. Liberty is not for cowards. Freedom isn�t free like welfare corn syrup bitch!

# ? Apr 17, 2015 03:04

VirtualStranger: Aug 20, 2012

Khizan posted:

Some of the comments on that Correia blog article are hilarious. It's almost like something out of Freep.

Over the past several months, I have become firmly convinced that anyone who unironically uses the phrase "SJW" is mentally defective.

quote:

Doctor Locketopus says:
April 9, 2015 at 5:03 pm

Considering the bile that the SJWs spew toward GoT/ASoIaF, Martin seems singularly clueless in this area.

Google �Game of Thrones racist�, George. Then come back and tell us these people don�t exist.

Or maybe he already knows about these complaints, and is capable of reacting to criticism maturely instead of getting defensive like a whiny crybaby.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 03:52

Apraxin: Feb 22, 2006; General-Admiral

I remember that Red Knight was discussed a bit here a little while back, so a question for those of you who've read it (and the sequel) - how many de Vrailly chapters are there, and does he get taken down a peg at any point? I'm about a third through the book and really enjoying everything else about it, but holy gently caress is this guy is the most annoying character ever to read about, and from the narrative arc I'm guessing he's in for a line of unbroken triumphs and increasing power until the end game of the trilogy, and I'm not sure I can stand that much more of him murdering people and being smug.

Apraxin fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Apr 17, 2015

# ? Apr 17, 2015 03:56

McCoy Pauley: Mar 2, 2006; Gonna eat so many goddamn crumpets.

Apraxin posted:

I remember that Red Knight was discussed a bit here a little while back, so a question for those of you who've read it (and the sequel) - how many de Vrailly chapters are there, and does he get taken down a peg at any point? I'm about a third through the book and really enjoying everything else about it, but holy gently caress is this guy is the most annoying character ever to read about, and from the narrative arc I'm guessing he's in for a line of unbroken triumphs and increasing power until the end game of the trilogy, and I'm not sure I can stand that much more of him murdering people and being smug.

Hmmm -- I'm trying to remember. I don't recall that this bothered me by the end of the second book, but I know what you're talking about from the early part of the first book. So I'm inclined to think that at some point he does get taken down, at least somewhat (even if, perhaps, he doesn't fully realize it). I don't particularly recall the specifics, but in any event, if you're otherwise enjoying the book so far, it's definitely worth finishing and the sequel was pretty solid as well.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 04:28

thehomemaster: Jul 16, 2014; by Ralp

Venusian Weasel posted:

Hey, looks like with Kloos declining the nomination that The Three-Body Problem is now on the best novel list!

Yes! A book that actually deserves to be there!

# ? Apr 17, 2015 04:51

Hedrigall: Mar 27, 2008; by vyelkin

thehomemaster posted:

Yes! A book that actually deserves to be there!

Uh, Goblin Emperor? :colbert:

__/

# ? Apr 17, 2015 05:04

Toph Bei Fong: Feb 29, 2008

Looks like noted leftist SJW gendertraitor Tim O'Neil already spoiled the winner of the Short Story Hugo on his website. This is pretty dope stuff!

http://whenwillthehurtingstop.blogspot.com/2015/04/the-winner-of-hugo-award-for-best-short.html posted:

On a dry planet on a distant arm of a distant galaxy, there was war! The wheels of conquest and heroism had rolled across the barren sands of the unnamed world, grinding the bones of the weak under the tread of laser tanks, and greasing the gears of the nuclear-powered rail guns that leveled entire mountain ranges with a single titanic shot!

The war had begun eons ago, on another world in another universe, but so far there had been no winner - could be no winner - as long as one last warrior on either side lived to hold a weapon! This was a war of extermination in which there could be no prisoners and no retreat - only death!

But one day there came upon the beautiful fields of combat a terrible truce. The generals of one army strode across the empty desolate plains to parlay with those of the other, and their troops, the finest intergalactic shock commandos in a dozen realities, took advantage of the rare quiet for a day of rest. What would be the result of this truce? Could there be . . . peace? No one dared guess.

On a distant mountain on a far plateau of this desert world there stood a concrete box, approximately five feet by five feet, closed on all sides. There was a muffled sound from within, the sound of steel cables tensing as if to burst. In the afternoon heat of this desert world the heat was unbearable, but through the miracle of an unknown endothermic reaction the box seemed to absorb all heat around it, such that the concrete was actually cold to the touch. There was a moment of silence when the titanic movements within the box seemed to pause, and then the front face of the box began to slide open.

Far away on battlefield where the generals discussed their truce, they heard the sound of a distant explosion, as if the bonds holding an ancient Titan of old had broken in a violent conflagration! What was happening? This planet was distant and empty, there were no other sapient beings for parsecs on any side. What could this strange event foretell?

Suddenly there came a silence, like the calm before a dreaded Bargoxian Ammonia Storm. The general rumble of armies at peace faded and all present knew they were on the cusp of something epochal. A man came into view striding from the desert, unhurriedly and yet with the supreme confidence borne of a total mastery of all natural and logical processes. He was clad simply in robes and wore nothing on his feet even as he marched across the burning sands. He wore no covering on his head and yet did not squint in the afternoon sun. His hair was cut short and his skin was bronze, the color of cooling iron after it has been tested by the forge. All present knew at once they were in the presence of a singular creature, a MAN who would and could change the destinies of every living being, if he so chose!

He was a MAN of uncommon bearing. His muscles rippled and twitched in the light, never truly still, constantly tense under the burden of perfection, a burden he carried in the desert heat with as much heat as a camel might carry a sheet of fine white paper ten thousand miles on a lonely trek.

Finally, the MAN approached the clutch of generals in their repose, arrayed around a table festooned with beverages and other delicacies. All along the plains where two armies stood motionless silence reigned, as all present held their breaths to hear what this potent stranger might say.

He paused at the table and stood without movement. Finally, he opened his mouth - but instead of moving his jaw and articulating his tongue, the words simply flowed from his mouth like waves crashing on a rocky beach. His words were THUNDER and his speech was LIGHTNING, and it seared the souls of all those who attended him.

WHERE IS THE WAR?

The generals were afraid to speak in the presence of one so much greater than they. Finally, one brave warrior, older and more esteemed than all the others, rose on his spindly legs and addressed the stranger.

"We have warred for generations, but we have come together today to broker peace. Because we are tired of war."

BUT WAR IS LIFE.

"We have lived on this barren rock for longer than I have been alive, fighting one another for control of nothing. We wish to make peace and to leave. We no longer wish to be at war with one another."

BUT WITHOUT WAR, IS WEAKNESS.

"We have fought for centuries and tested our resolve against our enemy. We have earned valor uncountable. But we grow old and our numbers no longer replenish themselves."

YOU HAVE SUCCUMBED TO WEAKNESS, AND FROM WEAKNESS UNTO DEATH, AND FROM DEATH TO DISHONOR.

"We have fought long enough to satisfy honor."

I UNDERSTAND YOUR WORDS BUT NOT YOUR MEANING. THE ONLY GOOD DEATH IS DEATH BY BATTLE, ALL OTHER DEATH IS DISGRACE.

The elder sat down in defeat. Another rose, from the same side of the table, to answer the proposition. He was not so old, and not yet so weak.

"We have forgotten why we fight."

YOU DO NOT NEED A REASON TO FIGHT. IT IS NATURE TO DESTROY, NATURE FOR MEN TO SWEEP THE EARTH OF ALL RESISTANCE AND ANNIHILATE THE WEAK.

"But sir," the second general began, "many among us no longer wish to fight."

NOT MANY MEN ARE TRUE MEN. WHO DO YOU FIGHT.

A figure from the opposite side of the table rose and began to speak. Before she could address the stranger, he spoke at her.

WHO ARE YOU TO SPEAK TO ME?

"I am the leader, the highest general of my army."

BUT YOU ARE . . . NOT MALE.

It was true! The general who now addressed the MAN was a woman, old and wizened, but still strong underneath the delicate ceremonial armor which she wore in the desert heat.

"That is true, I am a woman."

THEN HOW CAN THIS BE. YOU ARE WEAK.

The second general from the other side of the table arose and spoke. "They are women, yes, but they are warriors true. They have fought us across the universes, to a standstill, and at great cost to both sides."

ARE YOU MEN?

"Yes, we are -"

NO, YOU ARE MALES. YOU ARE MALES BUT YOU ARE NOT YET MEN. TO BE A MEN IS TO UNBURDEN YOURSELF OF THE CLOAK OF WEAKNESS THAT ALLOWS YOU TO BE STYMIED BY NOT-MALES.

"But sir -"

SPEAK NOT AGAIN LEST I DESTROY YOU WHERE YOU STAND.

The MAN tensed his left and right biceps and the sound of an earthquake filled the ears of all those present.

IT IS SAID THAT TO STRIKE WITH THE OPEN HAND IS TO STRIKE WITH LOVE. DO YOU STRIKE WITH THE OPEN HAND?

"No, sir, we strike the the fire of a thousand thousand suns. The fearsome might of our blitzkrieg is hailed across the known realms, from Asterum to Zeenig."

YOU STRIKE WITH THE OPEN HAND, BECAUSE YOUR ENEMY - NOT-MALES - YET LIVES. WEAKNESS IS LOVE, AND LOVE IS WEAKNESS. THEY ARE BUT NAMES FOR ONE AND THE SAME THING, WHICH ARE BOTH SIGNS OF THE SICKNESS UNTO DEATH. TO STRIKE WITH THE FIST IS TO STRIKE WITH HONOR, TO STRIKE FOR DESTRUCTION AND FOR HONOR AND DIGNITY.

"Sir, we have fought across the universes -"

AND YOU HAVE NOT WON. I KNEW I WAS RIGHT TO LEAVE THE WORLD OF MALES BEHIND.

"You were once one . . . of us?"

I WAS NEVER LIKE YOU. FROM A YOUNG AGE I PERCEIVED THE LOGIC OF STRENGTH. I TOOK THE RED PILL AND I KNEW THE FUTILITY OF ALL RESISTANCE.

"But sir, we have taken the holy Red Pill as well! All of us have pledged our lives to destroy the Adversary."

AND YET YOU MAKE PARLAY WITH YOUR ENEMY.

"We have fought long and hard. We have upheld our honor."

IF YOU HAD UPHELD YOUR HONOR I WOULD STILL BE AT PAUSE IN MY EXILE. MANY EPOCHS AGO I RECOGNIZED THAT I WAS THE ONLY MAN ALIVE - PERHAPS, IN MY TIME, THE LAST MAN. I EXILED MYSELF FROM THE WORLDS IN ANTICIPATION OF THE DAY WHEN I COULD ONCE AGAIN COME AMONGST YOU, MY PEOPLE, AND BE NO LONGER ALONE. I WAS TO BE - THE FIRST MAN. BUT I SEE THAT MY EONS OF REST HAVE BORNE BITTER FRUIT. THERE ARE NO MEN, ONLY WEAK AND SIMPERING MALES, AND LESS THAN MALES.

The MAN turned to address the commanders of the second army, resplendent in their molybdenum polymer armor, ritual war lasers at their side.

NOT-MALES, WHY DO YOU FIGHT?

"Sir," the eldest general replied, "we are warriors for social justice. We have crossed the known realms and laid barren whole galaxies to prosecute our cause with great zeal."

YOU FIGHT FOR - SOCIAL JUSTICE?

"Yes."

WHAT IS - JUSTICE?

"Why, justice is equality and fairness - equal representation and fair access. It is the right to be addressed with dignity and respect by equals."

THERE IS ERROR IN YOUR WORDS. YOUR IDEALS CANNOT WITHSTAND THE KEEN BLADE OF REASON.

"We welcome free debate -"

THERE IS NO DEBATE. THERE IS NO DELIBERATION. THERE IS MERELY THE STATEMENT OF TRUE AND NOT-TRUE PROPOSITIONS. YOU HAVE STATED NOT-TRUE PROPOSITIONS.

"What is 'not-true' about the desire for justice?"

YOUR PREMISE IS FATALLY FLAWED. JUSTICE DOES NOT EXIST.

"Justice is human and fallible, but no less necessary -"

ALL REASON BEGINS WITH THE PROPOSITION THAT A=A. THE PRINCIPLE OF IDENTITY PROCLAIMS THAT OBJECTS CAN ONLY BE EQUAL TO THEMSELVES. JUSTICE IS PREDICATED ON EQUITY BETWEEN NON-IDENTICAL CATEGORIES, HENCE IT IS A FALLACY.

"We fight to defend the universe from your ideology."

THEN YOU FIGHT A FUTILE WAR! A=A! A CANNOT EQUAL B! TO BELIEVE THAT ANOTHER IS EQUAL TO MYSELF IS WORSE THAN A FALLACY - IT IS THE WORST KIND OF DEATH, EGO DEATH!

"But we are all of us equals."

THEN WE ARE ALL NOTHING! EQUALITY AND JUSTICE ARE MYTHS PERPETRATED BY THE WEAK TO MAINTAIN THEIR STATUS AS BLESSED VICTIMS. IN TRUTH, THE WEAK SHALL INHERIT ONLY - DEATH! THE ONLY TRUE ACT OF THE STRONG IS TO DESTROY!

"But if destruction is your finest aspiration, how can you survive?

TO BE MALE IS TO EMBRACE DESTRUCTION AS THE ONLY POSITIVE ACTION. TO BE A MAN IS TO ACTUALIZE THE DESTRUCTION OF ALL CREATION WITH EVERY LIVING BREATH. THIS IS TRUE AND GOOD.

A QUESTION: IF A MAN SPEAKS, IS THE ACT AN ACT OF CREATION OR DESTRUCTION?"

"To speak is to create."

NO! TO SPEAK IS TO DESTROY SILENCE! IF A MAN SPEAKS IN THE PRESENCE OF A WOMAN, HE DESTROYS THE POTENTIAL FOR HER TO SPEAK. IF A GENETICALLY PURE MAN SPEAKS, HE DESTROYS THE SPEECH OF OF A IMPURE MONGREL RACE SPECIMEN.

"But why can't there simply be room for all to speak their peace on an equal basis?"

A=A! A CAN ONLY OCCUPY THE SPACE OF A! A AND B CANNOT COEXIST! IN ORDER FOR A TO REMAIN A, IT MUST ANNIHILATE B! A CAN ONLY REMAIN TRULY A UNLESS ITS EVERY ACT IS DESIGNED TO ASSERT AND REASSERT IT'S IDENTITY!

"But why can there not be room for everyone?"

TO BE FULLY ACTUALIZED IS TO ACCEPT THE MANTLE OF SUPREMACY. TO REJECT SUPREMACY IS TO EMBRACE WEAKNESS. TO BE WEAK - TO ACCEPT MULTIPLICITY AND RADICAL EQUALITY - IS TO EMBRACE DEATH, FOR ONLY IN THE EXERTION OF POWER AND DESTRUCTION IS THERE LIFE AND FREEDOM.

The general who first spoke, aged and wizened, rose again and addressed the demigod who now walked amongst man.

"It is obvious from your words that you are the prophet who has been foretold, the MAN above men who will lead the male race to its position of genetic and ideological purity over the mongrel and not-male. But we have fought long and hard to fulfill your ancient teachings - how have we failed?"

YOU HAVE FAILED BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE HEARD MY WORDS YOU HAVE NOT LISTENED TO THEM. YOU LIFT THE CUP TO YOUR MOUTH BUT TURN AWAY BEFORE YOU DRINK.

"How best can we follow you?"

FOLLOW ME? YOU BETRAY YOUR IGNORANCE WITH EVERY WORD! YOU CANNOT FOLLOW ME. I AM NO LEADER. THERE ARE NO MEN AMONG YOU, BECAUSE NO TRUE MEN ARE CONTENT TO LEAD OR BE LED. IF THERE WAS ONE MAN AMONG THE THOUSANDS OF YOU, THEN THERE WOULD BE ONLY ONE MAN. HIS ACTUALIZATION WOULD MEAN THE DESTRUCTION OF ALL FALSE PROPOSITIONS, ALL NON-ACTUALIZED MALES.

"So there can be only one?"

IF THERE WERE A MAN AMONG YOU, HE WOULD KNOW THAT SURVIVAL OF THE SELF DEPENDS IN ALL INSTANCES ON THE DESTRUCTION OF THE OTHER. IF THE OTHER IS ALLOWED TO SURVIVE, THEN THE EGO IS DIMINISHED, MADE WEAK, RENDERED UNTO DEATH.

"But then how can there be society?"

SOCIETY IS AN ILLUSION AND A LIE TOLD BY THE WEAK IN ORDER TO BE ALLOWED TO SURVIVE UNDER THE SKIRTS OF THEIR BETTERS. TO BE ACTUALIZED IS TO RECOGNIZE ONE'S AUTONOMY, AND TO RECOGNIZE THAT SOCIETY IS A DISEASE OF COMPROMISE.

"But how can men survive alone?"

MAN CAN ONLY SURVIVE ALONE! TO INTERACT WITH OTHERS IS TO ADMIT WEAKNESS!

"What can a man truly do, then?"

MANY EONS AGO I LEFT THE WORLD OF MALES AND NON-MALES TO BEGIN MY EXILE AND REST UPON THIS DISTANT WORLD. I BUILT MYSELF A SHELTER OF STONE, A CLOSED BOX WITH NO WINDOWS AND NO DOORS. IN THIS BOX I HAVE SAT, MOTIONLESS, FOR MILLENNIA, THE ONLY SOUNDS THE TRIUMPHAL STRAINING OF MY STEEL MUSCLES IN PERPETUAL ISOMETRIC SELF-ANNIHILATION, MY ONLY THOUGHT THE ENDLESS RECITATION OF IDENTITY - A=A! A=A! AND IN THAT STATE OF DIVINE MASCULINITY I COULD HAVE HAPPILY REMAINED UNTIL THE END TIMES.

"Why have you come upon us now?"

I HAVE LEFT MY SUBLIME MEDITATIONS ON MANHOOD TO EXAMINE YOUR CONFLICT - TO SEE IF, AS I HOPED, THE ERA OF TRUE MEN HAD ARRIVED. I SEE NOW I AM WOEFULLY MISTAKEN. I SEE NO MEN HERE - ONLY WEAKNESS AND DEATH.

"How will we know when the age of True Men has arrived?"

YOU WILL KNOW FROM THE ANNIHILATION OF ALL FALSEHOOD. A=A! ALL NON-MEN SHALL BE DESTROYED, AND IN THIS ACT OF DESTRUCTION ALL FREEDOM SHALL EMERGE!

"But if we can only destroy, how shall we propagate the race?"

PROCREATION IS WEAKNESS! DO YOU ACCEPT YOUR NEGATION? DO YOU WILLFULLY SUBJUGATE YOURSELF TO THE WILL OF ANOTHER? DO YOU EMBRACE IMPERFECTION? THEN YOU PROCREATE WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU SHALL BE SURPASSED IN TIME BY ANOTHER. TO ACTUALIZE YOURSELF IS TO REJECT PROCREATION, IS TO EMBRACE THE THESIS THAT YOU ARE ALREADY THE PINNACLE OF ALL! YOU SHALL NOT POLLUTE YOURSELF WITH THE ACT OF PROCREATION! TO GIVE LIFE TO ANOTHER IS TO TAKE YOUR OWN!

"How will we know when the final age is upon us?"

YOU WILL KNOW BECAUSE THE ONLY LIVING BEINGS WHO REMAIN SHALL BE THE SELF-ACTUALIZED, THE POWERFUL, THE TRUE MEN OF MEN. AND THEN IN THE FINAL DAYS WE SHALL MAKE JOYFUL WAR, TO DESTROY EACH OTHER AND THE UNIVERSE THAT EMBRACES THE WEAKNESS OF ALL LIVING THINGS. IN THE END OF ALL TIME, ONLY ONE MAN SHALL REMAIN, ONLY ONE MAN SHALL STAND VICTORIOUS OVER ALL CREATION! AND THEN IN THE FINAL ACT OF FREEDOM THAT MAN SHALL DESTROY CREATION, EXTINGUISH EVERY SUN AND DISINTEGRATE THE EARTH BENEATH HIS FEET, FINALLY ACHIEVING TRUE MASCULINITY. UNTIL THAT MOMENT, WE SHALL BATHE IN WEAKNESS AND COMPROMISE, DAMNED TO DRINK THE FILTH OF THE UNWORTHY AND TO FEAST ON THE OFFAL OF THE UNCLEAN.

"And what then, will the Last MAN do, at the end of time?"

THE FINAL ACT OF DESTRUCTION SHALL BE THE OBLITERATION OF THE SELF, THE FINAL FLEXING OF INVINCIBLE MUSCLES THAT SHALL UNDO THE POTENTIAL OF ALL THAT EVER WAS AND ALL THAT WILL EVER BE! IN THE FINAL MOMENT OF ECSTATIC SELF-OBLITERATION SHALL THE LAST MAN KNOW TRUE PEACE!

"So, the true fate of MAN is to uncreate the universe!"

YES! TO ACTUALIZE THE MASCULINE IS TO EMBRACE THE DESTRUCTION OF ALL THAT IS! TO REJECT THE ILLUSIONS OF JUSTICE AND FAIRNESS! TO UNDERSTAND THAT COMPASSION AND EMPATHY ARE THE INTOXICANT OF THE WEAK! TO KNOW THAT CREATION IS ABOMINATION, AND THE ONLY TRUTH IS POWER - REAL ULTIMATE POWER - THE POWER TO ANNIHILATE!

"By the great moons of Gargolax, we have been wrong, we have wandered weak in the valley of suffering! Give us a new gospel, bring us the truth of all existence and uncreation!"

On a dry planet on a distant arm of a distant galaxy, the MAN who was above all men spoke again, and his words were burnt into the soul of every space-warrior present. They knew that they were present at the end of the beginning, of the beginning of the end of all things. The imperfect prophets of yore had failed to adequately prepare the human race for the Final World, and it would fall on every soul present to spread outwards from this remote and war torn world with the new gospel of Man, to save and redeem the universe through fire and steel.

A=A!

SOCIETY IS COMPROMISE!

COMPROMISE IS WEAKNESS!

DIFFERENCE IS WEAKNESS!

WEAKNESS IS DEATH!

PROCREATION IS SELF-DEATH!

SELF-ACTUALIZATION IS POWER!

POWER IS DESTRUCTION!

DESTRUCTION IS SELF-ACTUALIZATION!

SELF-ACTUALIZATION IS LIFE!

# ? Apr 17, 2015 05:09

thehomemaster: Jul 16, 2014; by Ralp

Hedrigall posted:

Uh, Goblin Emperor?

__/

OK OK, the second one. The Goblin Emperor is in my TBR though.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 05:17

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Apraxin posted:

I remember that Red Knight was discussed a bit here a little while back, so a question for those of you who've read it (and the sequel) - how many de Vrailly chapters are there, and does he get taken down a peg at any point? I'm about a third through the book and really enjoying everything else about it, but holy gently caress is this guy is the most annoying character ever to read about, and from the narrative arc I'm guessing he's in for a line of unbroken triumphs and increasing power until the end game of the trilogy, and I'm not sure I can stand that much more of him murdering people and being smug.

IIRC, he does suffer some setbacks in this book, due mainly to the behavior you mention. I think that same behavior/attitude prevents him from actually acknowledging it though.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 05:19

Cardiac: Aug 28, 2012

angel opportunity posted:

It's a trilogy actually. My wife has read them all in Chinese and said the first book is the weakest of the three.

That is somewhat promising. The reception of the the rest of the series will be interesting.

thehomemaster posted:

OK, so the ending was in no way a MASSIVE CLIFFHANGER for you?

Personally I thought it was a perfect ending ... for a first book in a trilogy.

Nah, I thought it more as a perfect place to end.
Given the technology level and the time frame for what will happen, the ending was perfectly OK for a first contact story. Similar things have been done in other stand-alone books and worked out just fine.
What I liked about 3BP was the historical setting of China, the 3BP game with the historical characters and the mystery.
Given the ending, most of these things should be irrelevant for the future story and I am afraid it will turn out to be a rather generic "inferior humans struggling versus superior aliens" story line.
It is however written by a Chinese (?), so another perspective on scifi that is not Western-based is always interesting.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 07:26

Deptfordx: Dec 23, 2013

Ok book request time.

A couple of months ago I read a preview of a book that should be out or due now.

The premise was of a man and a woman who somehow got expanded to such a colossal size that every step literally caused earthquakes.

It sounded interesting and I thought i'd made a note of the title, but either i didn't or i've lost it.

Anyone know what i'm talking about?

# ? Apr 17, 2015 12:57

XBenedict: May 23, 2006; YOUR LIPS SAY 0, BUT YOUR EYES SAY 1.

I'm sick to gently caress of this topic, tbh, but this writer made some interesting points.

quote:

Nor is it the case, despite what the Puppies imagine, that literary ambition is the province only of the left. Much of the best literary science fiction has been written by writers whose politics are right-wing: aside from Gene Wolfe, this includes Jack Vance, R.A. Lafferty, Robert Silverberg, and Dan Simmons. To take one example: Robert Silverberg is a conservative but his best novel, Dying Inside, is a story of a telepath, rich with allusions to Kafka and Saul Bellow�writers Silverberg was emulating. The faux-populism of the Puppy brigade is actually insulting to the right, since it assumes that conservatives can�t be interested in high culture.

If leftism shouldn�t be conflated with literary ambition, neither should it be confused with demographic diversity. Torgersen is assuming that stories by and/or about women and non-whites will automatically be left-wing propaganda. Again, this flies in the face of history. For decades, science fiction writers of both the left and the right, both popular entertainers and those writing more ambitious works, have made a point of trying to be inclusive. Heinlein started featuring non-white characters in his books from the very beginning of his career. His Starship Troopers (1959) can be read as right-wing paean to military virtue; the main character is a Filipino.

Samuel Delany describes himself as a �boring old Marxist� but loves the right-wing fiction of Heinlein. �Well, Marx�s favorite novelist was Balzac�an avowed Royalist,� Delany once explained. �And Heinlein is one of mine.� The largeness of soul and curiosity about differing ideas that Delany brought to his appreciation of Heinlein is sadly missing from all the resentment and angst of the Sad and Rabid Puppies.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121554/2015-hugo-awards-and-history-science-fiction-culture-wars

# ? Apr 17, 2015 15:57

mdemone: Mar 14, 2001

Cardiac posted:

Nah, I thought it more as a perfect place to end.
Given the technology level and the time frame for what will happen, the ending was perfectly OK for a first contact story. Similar things have been done in other stand-alone books and worked out just fine.

I felt the same way, so you're not alone. Although I wouldn't say that 3BP is stronger as a stand-alone than a trilogy would be, I do think it is perfectly capable of satisfying readers as a self-contained story.

I've worried that the sequels will be a let-down, as happens so often, so it's good to hear from Chinese readers that they are possibly even stronger than 3BP. In any case it wasn't such a tease that I can't bide my time for the next entry, which is all that a trilogy-opener can hope to accomplish.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 18:24

Peel: Dec 3, 2007

3BP was somewhat choppy despite being interesting, so if the sequels are better we could have a classic on our hands.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 18:25

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Megazver posted:

Found it!

". . . now you know your lowest of moments are my highest of moments. The reason why I am so disgusted by the Leftwingers constantly tempting victims of same-sex attraction to give into their filthy sexual desires is not because my sexual desires are Christian and clean, but because they are Mohammedan and filthy."

This guy reads like someone trying to ape Chesterton.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 20:20

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# ? May 24, 2024 00:47

McNerd: Aug 28, 2007

Hit the nail on the head. I had sex with John C. Wright once and the Ape Chesterton is like, literally the only position he knows.

# ? Apr 17, 2015 20:41

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > The Science Fiction and Fantasy Thread: Read the OP, Bridge of Birds, and Murderbot

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