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Just added a quick trip to Sevilla to the grand itinerary, to meet up with my uncle. I'm going to be running around like a raped ape if I add any more destinations.
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Apr 12, 2015 18:30
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FaceEater posted:Great advice Thanks for the advice, much appreciated! FaceEater posted:1) In Spain, busses are frequent, cheap, and generally a perfectly viable transport option. They run between absolutely everywhere, and in a few cases are even quicker than the trains. Alsa.es and http://www.movelia.es/es/ I'm definitely not opposed to shorter bus trips, but I've been on some long bus journeys and I'd like to avoid them if possible. Also, concerning renting a car I sort of had a brain fart and thought I'd need one for the whole trip when in reality I could probably just rent one in Granada and drive to Barcelona for one day and return it and do Lisbon-Madrid by sleeper and Madrid-Cordoba normally by train more reasonably. I've driven in Rome and Paris as well, but I'm not sure how they compare to Spanish driving. Either way, I'm comfortable with driving in Europe. FaceEater posted:3) Are you opposed to flying? I'm looking at flights between Granada and Barcelona for $80. And flights between Barcelona and Lisbon for ~$60. Flying is fast, relatively cheap, and while all the airports are outside the cities, they are linked via quick, inexpensive metro or bus rides. This is something I'm also not opposed to and was thinking about between Granada and Barcelona, but I wasn't sure about how good the service was between the two. It's good to know that it's fairly cheap. I'm definitely going to look into that as I get closer to the dates. Is there a particular carrier I should be looking at? From a bit of research it looks like Vueling is the best (only?) option between the cities? Tannin posted:You've got a lot of cities on that list, but if you are going to Portugal you should seriously consider going to Porto. It's a beautiful city and I personally preferred it to Lisboa (but Lisboa is also fantastic). Just food for thought! I did have Porto on an itinerary with more days, but had to cut it back a bit and unfortunately it was one of the last to get cut out. Sad, but I can always head back to Portugal on my own since flights are super cheap from Toronto to Portugal.
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Apr 12, 2015 22:56
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MagicCube posted:This is something I'm also not opposed to and was thinking about between Granada and Barcelona, but I wasn't sure about how good the service was between the two. It's good to know that it's fairly cheap. I'm definitely going to look into that as I get closer to the dates. Is there a particular carrier I should be looking at? From a bit of research it looks like Vueling is the best (only?) option between the cities? If I recall correctly, the buses to and from the airport are timed to the specific flights departing/arriving (Granada is not exactly a big airport), and they were really cheap to get into town, something in the region of ~4€ from the airport. It was really very convenient, so if you find a decent flight, I'd definitely recommend this option! edit: Iberia's regional branch should also serve Granada, that's what we flew with coming via Madrid.
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Apr 12, 2015 23:21
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Hollow Talk posted:If I recall correctly, the buses to and from the airport are timed to the specific flights departing/arriving (Granada is not exactly a big airport), and they were really cheap to get into town, something in the region of ~4€ from the airport. It was really very convenient, so if you find a decent flight, I'd definitely recommend this option! Yeah, it's super easy. I flew Madrid to Granada last year for something like 40€ each way, I think. The bus is fairly fast and inexpensive, which I found out only after I took a taxi FROM the airport. The airport itself is really small and easy to get through as well.
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Apr 13, 2015 01:00
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MagicCube posted:Thanks for the advice, much appreciated! Both Iberia and Vueling (and possibly EasyJet?) serve the GRX-BCN route. Skyscanner.com / Skyscanner.es list the carriers for Spanish routes at length. It's a shame about that train line being cut, btw. It's a nice, relaxing ride through neverending olive groves. If you have time to spare and do decide to rent a car to go from Andalucia to Barcelona, you may want to consider avoiding the Autopistas (APs or E's) and jamming down the regional highways. They will be slower, no doubt, but you stand to see more of the country. If it were me, I'd be torn between two routes. One would be to stay off the AP's until Valencia, opting for the route that's more to the interior of the country and that takes you past Sierra de las Cabras and the like. And then working your way over to Valencia, from which you could take the AP-7/E-15 northeast all the way to BCN. Otherwise, a reaaaaally good beachy route (if you have time to linger and don't mind wandering) would be to take a detour south to Cabo de Gata near Nijar / Almeria. You could still make BCN by nightfall if you head down there early. An utterly desolate Mediterranean beach in the morning is something really special. And then just jam up the coast following the main ways. Forgive me for asking, but is your itinerary set in stone as far as your moves? Granada and Cordoba are quite close and could easily be lumped into the same trip. Maybe I'm missing some context. And if you've driven in Rome, then you've probably got something you could teach the Spanish. You'll be fine.
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Apr 13, 2015 02:55
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FaceEater posted:Forgive me for asking, but is your itinerary set in stone as far as your moves? Granada and Cordoba are quite close and could easily be lumped into the same trip. Maybe I'm missing some context. Oh no, it's definitely not set in stone. I'm just setting out a very loose idea of what we want to see in just over 2 weeks of time. Also, when I said 2-3 days for Cordoba and Granada I meant combined. Sorry for the confusion, but yeah, from looking at the map they are fairly close so I had planned on heading down to Cordoba one day, sightseeing, then move on to Granada the next day for a day or two. Something like that.
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Apr 13, 2015 03:53
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MagicCube posted:Oh no, it's definitely not set in stone. I'm just setting out a very loose idea of what we want to see in just over 2 weeks of time. Also, when I said 2-3 days for Cordoba and Granada I meant combined. Sorry for the confusion, but yeah, from looking at the map they are fairly close so I had planned on heading down to Cordoba one day, sightseeing, then move on to Granada the next day for a day or two. Something like that. By the way, if you want to see the Alhambra, do book in advance. They have leftover tickets on the day (a few hundred), but we didn't expect the booking to be quite this difficult (in late September, so not even during the holiday season), and thus had to hike up to there at silly o' clock in the morning just because we wanted to make sure that we would get tickets (#3 in line  ). The walk along the back of the Alhambra is fantastic though, even in pitch black, and if you can choose, I'd pick the early admission time (they have one from 9am or so, and one that starts in the afternoon), because during sunrise, you will get to see why it's called the Red.edit: clarifications Hollow Talk fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Apr 13, 2015 |
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Apr 13, 2015 05:02
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Hollow Talk posted:By the way, if you want to see the Alhambra, do book in advance. They have leftover tickets on the day (a few hundred), but we didn't expect the booking to be quite this difficult (in late September, so not even during the holiday season), and thus had to hike up to there at silly o' clock in the morning just because we wanted to make sure that we would get tickets (#3 in line Will do. Hopefully it won't be too crowded in November, but I'll definitely book ahead just to be safe.
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Apr 13, 2015 05:27
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Re: the Alhambra - can you get tickets if you book like two days in advance, or does it have to be earlier? We're travelling through Andalucia with no set dates or plans, but I really do want to get in there.
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Apr 13, 2015 12:07
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Depends, but yes, usually you can. Also, there is a "secret" back way up to the Alhambra/Generalife called the Cuesta de los Chinos. Take Carrera del Darro along the little stream to Cuesta del Rey Chico, then follow the path up to the Alhambra. Wear good walking shoes, and be really careful (on any path, and anywhere in Granada, in fact) if it is at all damp or wet. The paving stones are slick as hell in that town when it rains or when there's dew. e: The advantage to the Cuesta de los Chinos is generally a lower number of people take it, and you can see more of the engineering/infrastructure points of the construction of the fortress itself. Pretty cool IMO.
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Apr 13, 2015 12:27
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FaceEater posted:Depends, but yes, usually you can. That's the one! It's great! 
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Apr 13, 2015 16:15
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I'm flying myself to Granada on the 24th this month (less than two weeks yay) to visit a close friend who recently moved there. Well, almost, i'm flying to Malaga then bus to Granada. My question is, do they have fresh fish markets in Granada? I know Granada is inland, but it's less than an hour away from the nearest coastal town.
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Apr 13, 2015 18:57
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I'm so very, very happy that I saw the Alhambra before selfie sticks were a Thing. I already wanted to beat everyone who though that an iPad is an acceptable substitute for a camera (this was a recurring problem in Granada for reasons unknown).
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Apr 13, 2015 20:04
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PT6A posted:I'm so very, very happy that I saw the Alhambra before selfie sticks were a Thing. I already wanted to beat everyone who though that an iPad is an acceptable substitute for a camera (this was a recurring problem in Granada for reasons unknown). It's like that at pretty much every major landmark. I was in Versailles a few weeks ago and they even had specific signs showing "no selfie sticks" alongside the traditional "no flash" icons. E: What gets me even worse is when people ask you to take their photo, and then they hand you an iPad. The camera on the iPad is worse than the digital camera I had in like 2002, jesus christ. At least high-end cell phones have reasonably decent cameras. Saladman fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Apr 13, 2015 |
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Apr 13, 2015 22:18
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I visited Venice recently, in what was really the off-season, and even on a weekday you'd be lucky if you got asked to buy a selfie stick less than 20 times when walking around the city. It must be terribly annoying for the locals.
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Apr 13, 2015 22:46
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Falukorv posted:I'm flying myself to Granada on the 24th this month (less than two weeks yay) to visit a close friend who recently moved there. Well, almost, i'm flying to Malaga then bus to Granada. There are a couple little mom and pop shops that specialize in fish, yes. No full blown fish market though. At least not one I recall coming across. It's similar to a desert there, all that poor fish would just rot and get smelly. And like you said, it's like an hour to the nearest coastal town. Hop a bus from GRX to any of em, and there will be someone selling you something that was caught hours earlier.
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Apr 14, 2015 13:11
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I'm going to the Netherlands later this year and I'm finding a lot of conflicting information about using credit cards there (I'm from the US). I've read everything from they're behind the times and a lot of places don't take credit cards, they take credit cards but only Dutch ones, they take credit cards but they have to have a chip, some places only take credit cards, etc. What is the state of things in 2015? Is the best thing to do to try to get a new credit card with a chip (my current ones do not have it), or will I be able to use them with just a magnetic strip?
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Apr 16, 2015 22:07
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Choose Deth posted:I'm going to the Netherlands later this year and I'm finding a lot of conflicting information about using credit cards there (I'm from the US). I've read everything from they're behind the times and a lot of places don't take credit cards, they take credit cards but only Dutch ones, they take credit cards but they have to have a chip, some places only take credit cards, etc. What is the state of things in 2015? Is the best thing to do to try to get a new credit card with a chip (my current ones do not have it), or will I be able to use them with just a magnetic strip? I was just there, credit cards aren't accepted unless you're at some of the fancier places that get a lot of tourists (like nice hotels). Everyone just uses atm/bank cards. I would recommend just getting cash with your atm card at an Ambro Bank ATM, which is what I did. They are everywhere, including Schiphol of course, and they don't charge any fees (however your bank might).
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Apr 16, 2015 22:15
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Choose Deth posted:I'm going to the Netherlands later this year and I'm finding a lot of conflicting information about using credit cards there (I'm from the US). I've read everything from they're behind the times and a lot of places don't take credit cards, they take credit cards but only Dutch ones, they take credit cards but they have to have a chip, some places only take credit cards, etc. What is the state of things in 2015? Is the best thing to do to try to get a new credit card with a chip (my current ones do not have it), or will I be able to use them with just a magnetic strip? I'm pretty sure it's not even legal for places to take credit cards but not cash, except at automated machines. Almost everywhere takes credit card for substantial (e.g. ≥ 10 euro) fees unless it's like some under-the-counter Asian restaurant/grocery store. Most places with a person serving you will take a credit card even without a chip. However, many places that take credit card but use machines (e.g. train station machines and gas stations) will not accept swipe credit cards. Get a credit card with a chip if you can, but if you can't nearly everywhere, nearly everywhere with an actual person serving you will accept swipe & signature. Bring cash just in case.
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Apr 16, 2015 22:17
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Saladman posted:I'm pretty sure it's not even legal for places to take credit cards but not cash, except at automated machines. I was at a food place in Utrecht that only took bank cards, no cash for "hygiene reasons."
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Apr 16, 2015 22:19
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Saladman posted:I'm pretty sure it's not even legal for places to take credit cards but not cash, except at automated machines. I don't know, there are really not that many places where you can use them. The major supermarkets don't take credit cards for example. I often shop in an AH in the center of Amsterdam and there are tourists wanting to pay by credit card all the time, but it's clearly indicated that they don't take them. Easiest way is to withdraw cash at one of the big bank ATMs, they don't charge fees (ABN Amro, ING, Rabobank, SNS) although as mentioned, some places don't even take cash any more for safety reasons (mostly vending and ticket machines, but also some shops). The main payment method for locals is European debit cards (Maestro). Entropist fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Apr 16, 2015 |
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Apr 16, 2015 22:28
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The deal is that they won't take swip cards but they will take EMV cards. However any EMV card you get in the US will be chip&sig (chip and you sign) whereas everyone in Europe uses chip&pin (the chip and you input a PIN). Automated machines like train ticket vending machines won't accept your chip&sig card. I'm always on the hunt for an American issued chip&pin card.
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Apr 16, 2015 22:36
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FISHMANPET posted:The deal is that they won't take swip cards but they will take EMV cards. However any EMV card you get in the US will be chip&sig (chip and you sign) whereas everyone in Europe uses chip&pin (the chip and you input a PIN). Automated machines like train ticket vending machines won't accept your chip&sig card. I have a chip and pin credit card from an American bank (WF), but it wasn't accepted there.
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Apr 16, 2015 22:38
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OK I guess stay the gently caress away from the Netherlands I guess. They must have some weird parallel banking system because to just not accept credit cards is... welp. Were you able to use your WF chip&pin card in places you'd expect to be able to normally (like unmanned kiosks etc etc)?
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Apr 16, 2015 22:43
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FISHMANPET posted:The deal is that they won't take swip cards but they will take EMV cards. However any EMV card you get in the US will be chip&sig (chip and you sign) whereas everyone in Europe uses chip&pin (the chip and you input a PIN). Automated machines like train ticket vending machines won't accept your chip&sig card. My credit card from USAA is chin&pin and worked fine in Paris
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Apr 16, 2015 22:50
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To us it seems pretty crazy to accept credit cards, and being paid with a debt. In other parts of Europe they are also not normally used, they are just better at accepting them I guess. They are considered unsafe and prone to fraud - there is credit card fraud all the time, but with our chip debit cards it almost never seems to happen. I believe shops also have to pay per credit card transaction, and that's the main reason why most places don't take them. Entropist fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Apr 16, 2015 |
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Apr 16, 2015 22:52
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FISHMANPET posted:OK I guess stay the gently caress away from the Netherlands I guess. They must have some weird parallel banking system because to just not accept credit cards is... welp. I didn't try as I took out cash, but I doubt they would work as several people told me there that credit cards are just not used by locals at all. I would still go though, just take out cash from an ATM. Also the Euro is pretty weak right now so you get a good value for your money.
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Apr 16, 2015 22:55
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FISHMANPET posted:OK I guess stay the gently caress away from the Netherlands I guess. They must have some weird parallel banking system because to just not accept credit cards is... welp. 
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Apr 16, 2015 23:01
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In America Credit and Debit transactions are all processed through the same networks. I have Visa debit cards and Visa credit cards. So to devise an entire payment system outside of that framework is, to me, weird.
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Apr 16, 2015 23:04
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Yes, because our payment system was devised well after the American system was established. We had credit cards since 1957 too, it was just not the American companies doing it, and it never really caught on. The current system was started with a Dutch PIN-network, and later connected across Europe with Mastercard's Maestro. I'm not sure how it relates to the American networks or credit cards. But the fact that Mastercard's Maestro or Visa's V-pay is used, doesn't mean it also accepts those credit cards. I guess they are separate things. Entropist fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Apr 16, 2015 |
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Apr 16, 2015 23:11
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Im Dutch and there's loads of stuff i pay with my MasterCard. Pretty much all my non grocery shopping and fancier dinners go by card. Lots of places accept it if it has chip + PIN. They do no always know themselves that they do though.
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Apr 17, 2015 13:51
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Credit cards may or may not work. You probably don't want to find out a shop doesn't accept them when you are at the counter. Also they may tack on service charges (i got charged 3% at one place). Just forget about your credit card and carry cash or a maestro card. Debt is shameful.
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Apr 17, 2015 17:59
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NihilismNow posted:Credit cards may or may not work. You probably don't want to find out a shop doesn't accept them when you are at the counter. Also they may tack on service charges (i got charged 3% at one place). Other debit cards are fine too but basically yea this. Just carry a bit of cash so that you can cover a single payment if your trembling hamfist snaps your card in half or you panic or there's a freak power outage right at that second or whatever and use a debit card like a normal person.
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Apr 17, 2015 19:06
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But to an American a debit card is a credit card. There's no separate debit only transaction network.
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Apr 17, 2015 19:08
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Yeah, to me it makes no difference whether I use a credit card or debit card, I use cards for convenience/rewards, not because I because I don't have the money available. I didn't know credit and debit cards were viewed so differently in Europe; as FISHMANPET said, they're almost interchangeable in the US. I wanted to know how often I would be able to use cards vs. needing cash, and it sounds like the answer is "have enough cash for everything you could possibly need to buy, just in case".
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Apr 17, 2015 19:30
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FISHMANPET posted:In America Credit and Debit transactions are all processed through the same networks. I have Visa debit cards and Visa credit cards. So to devise an entire payment system outside of that framework is, to me, weird. FISHMANPET posted:But to an American a debit card is a credit card. There's no separate debit only transaction network. Not exactly true In the US there is a distinct difference between swipe/signing with your Visa/Mastercard debit card vs swiping and using your PIN. When you use your PIN in a debit transaction in the US it's very similar to debit transactions in other countries and the transaction goes over one of the separate debit networks (like when you use your PIN in an ATM), but US banks figured out a long time ago they could make a lot more money if everyone just swiped and signed so the transaction would go over the Visa/Mastercard networks and they'd get a lot more fees from merchants. This eventually resulted in the Durbin Amendment because it was getting stupid FISHMANPET posted:The deal is that they won't take swip cards but they will take EMV cards. However any EMV card you get in the US will be chip&sig (chip and you sign) whereas everyone in Europe uses chip&pin (the chip and you input a PIN). Automated machines like train ticket vending machines won't accept your chip&sig card. Also mostly not true. I travel a lot and I've successfully used my American Chip/EMV + Signature card in plenty of automated ticket machines in Europe, as well as in automated machines for local subways/regional trains. I think the only outright rejection I've ever had was from a machine in Spain, but it's been 99% successful. Tube machines in London, DB machines in Germany, SNCF machines in France, Tren Italia machines, convenience stores in Sweden, etc. Hell, even the metro machines in Warsaw accepted my credit card to buy a ticket that cost less than $1. You MAY have a one off odd issue, but if you see a Mastercard/Visa logo as long as your American card has a chip on it you'll be fine. The "need" for a Chip+PIN card is really overblown. Asymmetric POSTer fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Apr 18, 2015 |
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Apr 18, 2015 04:23
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Ok, yeah, I guess it makes sense the back end network would be different. I guess the point I was making though was that it's the same and as a consumer we present it to the merchant in the same way, generally a swipe. But it sounds like Dutch cards don't work like that? Or they're all EMV but just not hooked up to the credit network, and instead to the debit network? So in that case since I'm sure an American debit card wouldn't work on the Dutch debit network, the only option is cash. But it's all Euros anyway, so that's nice at least.
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Apr 18, 2015 04:48
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FISHMANPET posted:Ok, yeah, I guess it makes sense the back end network would be different. I guess the point I was making though was that it's the same and as a consumer we present it to the merchant in the same way, generally a swipe. Debit is all country by country yes, so no, the US and Dutch debit networks don't talk to each other for point of sale transactions (but do either directly or indirectly for ATM transactions) It's definitely varies wildly country to country. In Germany a lot of restaurants don't take any credit cards, either cash or Maestro debit. And the U-Bahn/S-Bahn machines only take Maestro cards, but the DB ticket machines take credit cards no problem! I haven't been everywhere, but most places are pretty good about credit card acceptance, I found Germany to be the odd one out. If you're using an American card in Europe, simply ask the merchant if they accept Visa or Mastercard. If the answer is no, your card aint working there.
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Apr 18, 2015 05:03
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mishaq posted:credit/debit card stuff How come you care so much about this subject that your avatar is about it?
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Apr 18, 2015 12:22
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From what I get from a german perspective is that if you want your customers to be able to pay with credit cards you kinda face a (not well known) fixed cost on a yearly basis besides the transaction fees. So as a rule of thumb smaller businesses want to keep their fixed costs down and opt out of that option. If you sign with your name or enter a PIN is just a different level of security here, it is assumed its easy to fake a signature for a storefront person. With debit cards it is a different situation: if you sign, it is the least cost but highest risk option for the vendor as your account is not checked if it has proper fundings and you more or less hand out a cheque. When giving a PIN your account is checked for funds so it is less risk for the vendor but a slightly higher transaction fee - also more sophisticated hardware is needed. Now comes the twist: at least my Visa card is not a "real" credit card but more like an alternative interface to my bank account and tied to my funding and my line of credit actually, and I guess thats the case with most german/(european?) credit cards. Most people here initially got their credit cards to do online payments and Paypal and that stuff only. (Also a lot of people hedge a deep distrust to credit cards and think they will soon be the tool for criminals to empty out all their accounts.) My card can also seemingly downgrade to debit card mode and it appears on my account statement just as if I had used my normal bank debit card. (EC for electronic cash.) TL;DR: Just put like 50 to 100 € in cash in your wallet and you should be fine for a week or two, or even more if you pay a lot with any kind of card you have.
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Apr 18, 2015 13:31
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