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Vladimir Putin posted:I wonder if grunts in the PLA would think twice about participating in a bloodbath against fellow ethnic Chinese. I mean for that level of casualties to be acceptable Taiwan would have to do something absolutely monstrous. Probably not. I've mentioned before that for the generation I teach, there is no one on Earth more hated than a Hong Konger. They kind of hate all Cantonese people. And actually everyone not from this province to various degrees. But more than a few have said China should destroy Hong Kong and kill them all.
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Apr 17, 2015 02:14
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Vladimir Putin posted:I wonder if grunts in the PLA would think twice about participating in a bloodbath against fellow ethnic Chinese. I mean for that level of casualties to be acceptable Taiwan would have to do something absolutely monstrous. 
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Apr 17, 2015 02:18
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Grand Fromage posted:Probably not. I've mentioned before that for the generation I teach, there is no one on Earth more hated than a Hong Konger. They kind of hate all Cantonese people. And actually everyone not from this province to various degrees. But more than a few have said China should destroy Hong Kong and kill them all. Grand Fromage, you're a cheesy historian out teaching in China, so lemme ask you this: What are the structural educational issues that be contributing to why Chinese archeology and historiography be so poo poo? Like I wanna know about western han levy construction and maintainance methodologies and I just don't know what I can trust.
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Apr 17, 2015 02:26
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Schooling encourages repeating, not critical thought. Copying and cheating are not considered a big deal and after going through the Chinese educational system, students can't even seem to understand why anyone would think they are. The bigger issue is the government. Everything has to conform to the political narrative above all things. They start from the conclusion. Chinese archaeology is better than western because Chinese archaeologists always find exactly what they were intending to! 
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Apr 17, 2015 02:33
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Vladimir Putin posted:I wonder if grunts in the PLA would think twice about participating in a bloodbath against fellow ethnic Chinese. I mean for that level of casualties to be acceptable Taiwan would have to do something absolutely monstrous. 1921 to 1949 didn't see this already happen? Ukrainians shooting other Ukrainians and/or Russians? I hear something like that also happened in the mid 1860's not sure what though. Militaries take some phenomenal collapse in discipline and morale for the whole "No way man, those are our fraternity over there!" To work.
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Apr 17, 2015 02:42
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Raenir Salazar posted:Militaries take some phenomenal collapse in discipline and morale for the whole "No way man, those are our fraternity over there!" To work. So it's on the table for the PLA then.
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Apr 17, 2015 03:18
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Fojar38 posted:So it's on the table for the PLA then. I would say it's less likely than very many other places. The mainland kids who have ended up in the PLA had a decade or two of in-school propaganda saying that Taiwan is full of rebellious, morally corrupt Chinese. I can't say I've heard a mainlander say it outright, but I suspect they'd be more willing, on a personal level, to fight ROC soldiers than most other potential enemies. edit: but this whole hypothetical is ridiculous and I don't know why I bothered
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Apr 17, 2015 03:59
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As long as the commanders say it's ok - then everything is ok! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNTK7XC3EK0 Police commissioner of Hong Kong on tear gassing "There's a lot of criticism against you guys but let me say this:" YOU GUYS WERE NEVER WRONG! This old man was saying "Don't hurt these cops, don't rush em!" and gets what happened to him? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH2vk-veS0o caberham fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Apr 17, 2015 |
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Apr 17, 2015 04:01
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How many non-Han are left in the Hong Kong police force and civil service?
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Apr 17, 2015 04:02
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My Imaginary GF posted:How many non-Han are left in the Hong Kong police force and civil service? Mostly white officers and your rare token Indian cop. The pro establishment parties love police and their tactics in stalling demonstrators and always want to give cops more money, more toys to play with. While the democrats tend to call police and immigration out for wire tapping, immigration black lists, and other shady poo poo.
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Apr 17, 2015 04:08
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Yeah, kinda hard for discipline and morale to collapse when it ain't there.
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Apr 17, 2015 04:13
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Barracuda Bang! posted:I would say it's less likely than very many other places. The mainland kids who have ended up in the PLA had a decade or two of in-school propaganda saying that Taiwan is full of rebellious, morally corrupt Chinese. I can't say I've heard a mainlander say it outright, but I suspect they'd be more willing, on a personal level, to fight ROC soldiers than most other potential enemies. Tom Clancy's ghost asked me to ask you what you think their spirit would be like if fighting Americans.
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Apr 17, 2015 04:29
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Fojar38 posted:Tom Clancy's ghost asked me to ask you what you think their spirit would be like if fighting Americans. Wait -- are you comparing me to Clancy or...?
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Apr 17, 2015 06:05
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Barracuda Bang! posted:Wait -- are you comparing me to Clancy or...? No, I was asking your opinion on something because you seem to have an idea of how the morale is in the PLA. I invoked Tom Clancy to show that I'm aware it's an outlandish scenario that will never happen but I'm curious anyway.
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Apr 17, 2015 06:20
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Fojar38 posted:No, I was asking your opinion on something because you seem to have an idea of how the morale is in the PLA. I invoked Tom Clancy to show that I'm aware it's an outlandish scenario that will never happen but I'm curious anyway. Alright, well here's a mini effortpost then. I'm no expert, but I have some experience over there, so consider this to be just some opinions based on anecdotal observation? See, yer typical Chinama- No, wait, let me start over. Among mainland adolescents and stuff, there's a strain of PLA-fanboyism. I remember even way out in the non-central neighborhoods in Shanghai and Beijing (so not rural or anything, but still pretty far from cosmopolitan) any newsstand with more than four or five newspapers had these kind of specialized military newspapers. Like, yeah, Barnes and Noble in the US would have Guns-N-Ammo magazine, but it's far from ubiquitous and it's more about guns as a hobby and not about these military itself. These newspapers would have the latest government-approved news in, say, missile technology or that lovely carrier or whatever. Incidentally, I remember that in the afternoon on one of the Shanghai channels there was a half hour sports news show that was honestly just about Yao Ming. Seriously, a half-hour Yao Ming news show every day. I guess just because of the demographics of the country, lots of little niches (not that Yao Ming is a small niche...) are viable markets where they wouldn't be in other countries. All of this is to say that there are tons of legitimate Kool-Aid drinkers in China's youth, some of whom go on to serve in the PLA. But then there's a lot who who join because they see it as a good job and a way to get out of abject poverty, just like the US. They have, at best, apathy towards Chinese-made technology (see: public confidence in domestic baby formula) and a huge boner for Western goods. So, they know our gear is better. And they've seen enough movies to know our military is Serious Business. Among everyone but those true believers I talked about, I think the PLA lower enlisted would expect to get their poo poo pushed in pretty hard by the US.
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Apr 17, 2015 07:01
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Apr 17, 2015 09:28
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Are any of you guys even aware that the PLA attempted an invasion of Taiwan once before?
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Apr 17, 2015 11:34
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Arglebargle III posted:Are any of you guys even aware that the PLA attempted an invasion of Taiwan once before? You mean during the Civil War? I would think that's obvious, but I'm not sure you mean that or the Straight Crises.
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Apr 17, 2015 11:43
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Barracuda Bang! posted:the Straight Crises. Whatever else might happen, the crises of the future are gonna be fabulous. To go beyond my stupid jokes, how is the situation of LGBT rights in PRC/HK/Taiwan, as seen from the ground level?
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Apr 17, 2015 19:20
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Apr 17, 2015 21:27
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I like it when the PLA trains for those combat scenarios where they'll need to jump through burning hoops or use their synchronized kung fu.
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Apr 17, 2015 21:29
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Or start a Pink Floyd show.
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Apr 17, 2015 23:19
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Fojar38 posted:I like it when the PLA trains for those combat scenarios where they'll need to jump through burning hoops or use their synchronized kung fu. In all seriousness you might have to jump through burning debris or something as a soldier.
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Apr 18, 2015 01:18
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My class has a guest speaker (law professor) from HK coming to talk to our class next week. Any interest questions to ask? The only question I could think to ask him is about the recent efforts by the Mainland to prevent famous HK activists from going to the Mainland to visit family, and what type of legal recourse (if any) they have.
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Apr 18, 2015 01:25
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Being in itself posted:My class has a guest speaker (law professor) from HK coming to talk to our class next week. Any interest questions to ask? The only question I could think to ask him is about the recent efforts by the Mainland to prevent famous HK activists from going to the Mainland to visit family, and what type of legal recourse (if any) they have. Ask him what purpose restricting Shenzhener visits to once per week accomplishes that a once per day restriction doesn't also accomplish.
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Apr 18, 2015 01:45
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Vladimir Putin posted:In all seriousness you might have to jump through burning debris or something as a soldier. Yeah but practicing that specifically is pointless. General physical fitness and an ability to think on your feet is more important that literally having trained for that specific scenario.
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Apr 18, 2015 01:47
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Being in itself posted:My class has a guest speaker (law professor) from HK coming to talk to our class next week. Any interest questions to ask? The only question I could think to ask him is about the recent efforts by the Mainland to prevent famous HK activists from going to the Mainland to visit family, and what type of legal recourse (if any) they have. Tell him you post on the internet with me.
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Apr 18, 2015 01:56
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Being in itself posted:My class has a guest speaker (law professor) from HK coming to talk to our class next week. Any interest questions to ask? The only question I could think to ask him is about the recent efforts by the Mainland to prevent famous HK activists from going to the Mainland to visit family, and what type of legal recourse (if any) they have. Ask him who will take over Li Ka-Shing's monopoly enterprises in Hong Kong.
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Apr 18, 2015 02:21
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WarpedNaba posted:Yeah, kinda hard for discipline and morale to collapse when it ain't there. "It will only take one sure kick for the whole rotten structure to come tumbling down."
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Apr 18, 2015 03:46
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fart simpson posted:Ask him what purpose restricting Shenzhener visits to once per week accomplishes that a once per day restriction doesn't also accomplish. Everything I've read about this says it will reduce the number of people traveling to HK to bring goods to sell back to the Mainland. Is this not true? I looked up a few articles, and they all say it will reduce the number by around 4 million per year.
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Apr 18, 2015 03:47
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Being in itself posted:My class has a guest speaker (law professor) from HK coming to talk to our class next week. Any interest questions to ask? The only question I could think to ask him is about the recent efforts by the Mainland to prevent famous HK activists from going to the Mainland to visit family, and what type of legal recourse (if any) they have. Article 39 The provisions of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, and international labour conventions as applied to Hong Kong shall remain in force and shall be implemented through the laws of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region. Why does HK
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Apr 18, 2015 04:15
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Dear China thread, what's modern political education like in mainland China? Do they still teach Mao, Marx& Co? How do the teachers and students explain the modern Chinese economic system?
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Apr 18, 2015 11:53
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On a similar note to Being in itself's question, on Tuesday I'm presenting a policy paper at a seminar with Anson Chan and some others (not sure who exactly since the event organisers have been crap at keeping everyone in the loop but it'll be at least someone from Occupy and someone from the UK parliament's China committee I think), if anyone has anything they'd like me to ask let me know.waitwhatno posted:Dear China thread, There are people here with direct experience who can explain much better than I can, but the general answer is yes they do still teach Marxism (last I heard dialectical materialism is still compulsory learning in high school, and Xi has made moves to make it more robust at a higher level e.g. through compulsory Marxism training for journalists) and the official explanation is that China is in a transitional stage of development.
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Apr 18, 2015 12:01
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waitwhatno posted:Dear China thread, In China, engineering students look down on science students, science students look down on humanities students, humanities students look down on politics students, and politics students look down on their teachers.
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Apr 18, 2015 13:30
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Recently Sichuan University was forced to get rid of its political science department because political science is dirty western thought and replace it with a Marxism department. China is backsliding with this stuff.
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Apr 18, 2015 14:12
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It is also worth noting that "Marxism" is not taught so much as an alternate name for the Maoist nonsense the party spouts and revises endlessly. Not a single one of the Marx's texts is required reading at any point in the process of the average person's (K-University) "political education", from what I've found out and asked.
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Apr 18, 2015 14:29
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Also what Argle posted is a common Chinese joke. 99% of the students do not give the tiniest gently caress about communism, learn nothing at all about it, and absolutely hate wasting their time in their Marxism education classes. I quizzed students about it once for my personal fun and part of teaching about More's Utopia, and my favorite answer was communism means making lots of money.
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Apr 18, 2015 14:35
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Grand Fromage posted:Also what Argle posted is a common Chinese joke. 99% of the students do not give the tiniest gently caress about communism, learn nothing at all about it, and absolutely hate wasting their time in their Marxism education classes. Sounds like they're reaching the much sought after Western level of historical appreciation.
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Apr 18, 2015 14:37
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Ceciltron posted:It is also worth noting that "Marxism" is not taught so much as an alternate name for the Maoist nonsense the party spouts and revises endlessly. Not a single one of the Marx's texts is required reading at any point in the process of the average person's (K-University) "political education", from what I've found out and asked. There are very little Maoism you can teach. Maoism is not a systematic thought you can teach. Water down Marxism is still more Marxism than Maoism.
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Apr 18, 2015 15:07
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whatever7 posted:There are very little Maoism you can teach. Maoism is not a systematic thought you can teach. Water down Marxism is still more Marxism than Maoism. This sounds like some nonsense from the little red book.
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Apr 18, 2015 15:58
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