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Yeah the God Aura is just awful, it doesn't fit with the rest and I just don't get the point of including it. It doesn't make it original, just bad.
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Apr 19, 2015 20:17
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Thyrork posted:
I liked it, and I was kind of hoping something like this would happen. Zen Buu is a pretty interesting character.
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Apr 19, 2015 20:21
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facebook jihad posted:I liked it, and I was kind of hoping something like this would happen. Zen Buu is a pretty interesting character. He said back around the time he was introduced that he wound up destroying/absorbing everything in his universe, though. I wonder if the other shoe's about to drop, or maybe the Z-fighters' influence was only enough to make him spare Earth specifically. I kind of hope it's the latter, because a universe where nothing but Earth exists, ruled over by Zen Buu as a quasi-benevolent deity is a pretty interesting concept.
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Apr 19, 2015 20:25
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Rirse posted:Man Tambourine was actually a pretty dangerous henchmen. Especially him just going around casually murdering all the named martial artists throughout the show. Dragonball, as a whole, is generally at its best when they add a goal besides killing the villain. Especially when it is somewhat of a race between different factions, you end up with a very intense atmosphere, since you know that the heroes would actually lose a direct confrontation, so they have to act a bit smarter and stealthier than usual. It works great in the Demonking Piccolo arc and I think it's what makes the Namek arc easily the best written in DBZ. I also think that adding henchmen that are actually threats also helps greatly and is a good move. Not only does it allow other people to actually take out a villain or two and keep bystander syndrome at a minimum. It also allows you to have more than one plot at the time going, which is always nice and keeps your story from coming to a grinding halt every time a fight goes down. edit: Also, a lot of people say that the Demonking Piccolo arc is the one were Dragonball began to change from the light-hearted adventure manga it was into what it eventually became. Do you feel the same? e X fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Apr 19, 2015 |
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Apr 19, 2015 20:30
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But they never actually avoid Tambourine, Goku fights him and loses, he kills the people he is suppose to kill, and find Yamcha like immediately but gets called back. I don't think they ever actually have to avoid King Piccolo as he isn't actually ever looking for them.
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Apr 19, 2015 20:34
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SirDrone posted:I like that I saw purple Guldo, blue Jeice and the first Frieza goon Vegeta blew up. http://toonami.tumblr.com/post/116788124324/r-i-p-cui-well-always-remember-to-vaguely
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Apr 19, 2015 21:36
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e X posted:edit: Also, a lot of people say that the Demonking Piccolo arc is the one were Dragonball began to change from the light-hearted adventure manga it was into what it eventually became. Do you feel the same? It's true that the tone shift is more pronounced during the King Piccolo arc than between DB and DBZ as most people assume, but I believe it happened more gradually than we think, Tao Pai Pai was already different from every previous villain, and the 22nd World Tournament has A LOT less comedy than the 21st. In fact, now that I think about it, Tao Pai Pai's arc and King Piccolo's saga follow a very similar formula: 1) Villain causes the tragic death of a character, outclasses Goku and "kills" him. 2) Goku isn't really dead, climbs Karin's Tower and gets stronger. 3) Goku defeats the villain. Sure, it's the typical hero story arc but it's surprising how in two consecutive arcs the villain foolishly leaves Goku for dead and gets a power boost in the same place.
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Apr 19, 2015 21:53
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jivjov posted:This keeps getting brought up, and I'm going to keep refuting it. I absolutely love the God aura. Just as a visual effect it's nothing terribly special, rather standard...but as a contrast to normal DBZ auras, it has its own very distinct feel to it. That is true and I too like it for standing out but for what would be the form of a god it looks surprisingly ungrand or special. A part of me likes that though I do find it odd that in a series that in the past kept getting bigger and flashier that its God is simple. But going simpler is probably for the best. It does not look as silly as golden Freezer. Petiso posted:Sure, it's the typical hero story arc but it's surprising how in two consecutive arcs the villain foolishly leaves Goku for dead and gets a power boost in the same place. They follow a standard and well received formula, I would be surprised if they did not happen in the same place. Never did see the tone shift going on towards the end of DB, can you example for me? I am curious. Dark Raku fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Apr 19, 2015 |
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Apr 19, 2015 21:56
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facebook jihad posted:So, after following this thread and the old one for a while, I think I've finally come up with a crackpot theory that kind of explains my biggest issue with the series (outside of the boring General Blue arc): the insane power jumps in the Freeza saga. I'm going to put my sperg cap on for a minute, so forgive me. You know what, someone else mentioned this being pretty close to just outright saying "Powerlevels are bullshit" but it's a rather eloquent way of explaining it so that people who still adore them  and people who abhor them  can agree. They're bullshit.On a completely different note. I hope this new trend of a new level of SS doesn't continue. It's starting to feel like I'm a kid again in the bad way. I now have the knowledge about the He-man cartoons and poo poo of the 80's actually being simple lovely cartoons made to shill new merchandise. I'd rather not just end up with a new movie every few years with new hair, making new toys for everyone to buy the new variant of your Goku and Vegeta.
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Apr 19, 2015 22:56
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Petiso posted:It's true that the tone shift is more pronounced during the King Piccolo arc than between DB and DBZ as most people assume, but I believe it happened more gradually than we think, Tao Pai Pai was already different from every previous villain, and the 22nd World Tournament has A LOT less comedy than the 21st. Tao Pai Pai was a lot different, but it kind of reverted back to goofiness with the Uranai Baba tournament. I actually pinpoint the tone shift to be after Goku fights Grandpa Gohan, as that's almost a coming of age moment for Goku. The 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai on are much more serious in context. Sure, you have goofy fights like that Man-Wolf fight, but then again you have goofy moments in all of Dragon Ball Z as well. Dark Raku posted:Never did see the tone shift going on towards the end of DB, can you example for me? I am curious. It just becomes much more of a serious story after a certain point. The only true "funny" arc is the original/Pilaf arc, as it starts to become a more martial arts/combat oriented manga after that, but the series really starts to become more like Dragon Ball Z at the very least in the King Piccolo saga. Main characters start dying or maimed (22nd has Yamcha have his leg broken, I think Master Shen wants his pupils to kill Goku or something), the fate of mankind is in the balance, all that stuff you associate with Z. If you don't see a tone shift here, then maybe you can see the entirety of Dragon Ball with a consistent tone. Most don't though. There's not much difference in tone between the Saiyan Saga and the King Piccolo Sage, in contrast to the Saiyan Saga and the Red Ribbon Army Saga.
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Apr 19, 2015 22:59
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Drowning Rabbit posted:I'd rather not just end up with a new movie every few years with new hair, making new toys for everyone to buy the new variant of your Goku and Vegeta. I'm totally down for this, myself. New ridiculous designs, new chances for me to buy overpriced toys for myself.
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Apr 19, 2015 23:16
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As a continuation/side item to my effort post series, I decided to try something a little different. Can you guys tell more or less what's going on in the following images?  
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Apr 19, 2015 23:16
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Only because I already know the only point in which that particular combination of characters is present. But again the unique silhouette thing is clear.
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Apr 19, 2015 23:21
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Xibanya posted:As a continuation/side item to my effort post series, I decided to try something a little different. Can you guys tell more or less what's going on in the following images? This is kind of hard. Piccolo shows off the landscape, the entire group talks, 17 says something, Piccolo says something, then 17 retorts. Piccolo talks seriously, then he keeps talking, then 17 taunts him, then he flexes a bit to look intimidating or to get ready to fight, then Piccolo (?) gets in stance. Piccolo powers-up and everyone is impressed. Piccolo charges 17 and gets a good hit on him. Piccolo follows up with a kick and gets him again. 17 is down and Piccolo gloats a bit. 17 seems unphased and starts to get up. Piccolo gets ready to blast him as he does.
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Apr 19, 2015 23:23
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Xibanya posted:As a continuation/side item to my effort post series, I decided to try something a little different. Can you guys tell more or less what's going on in the following images? Obviously a fight of some kind, but I couldn't even begin to give a play-by-play.
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Apr 19, 2015 23:25
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Bad Seafood posted:Not really, sorry. Don't worry, it's not actually clear who the characters are/their personalities or whatever, but I think that it's pretty evident that there's a fight going on and you can tell what type of blows are being landed. I think I found a good example of a "bad" manga, I'm working on giving it a similar rundown; I think once you see the muddled shitpile this kind of treatment is on a different comic it'll be more apparent that you're getting a hell of a lot of info just from these character silhouettes, even sans background.
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Apr 19, 2015 23:29
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actually that last page makes the most sense; antenna man kicks neckerchief, then like, knocks him into the water from it or something? And as he's climbing out he throws something at him.
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Apr 19, 2015 23:46
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I find these really hard because I keep forgetting that manga is right to left
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Apr 19, 2015 23:54
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I can see it's a little hard to appreciate Toriyama's blocking and composition in absence of other material, so I plugged in my external hard drive to look through my vast pirated comic book collection and this is the first issue I grabbed, so you could probably find worse if you really wanted to look. This is from an issue of Superman-Batman. The setting is that we're watching some punchmans duke it out in an arena while the rogues gallery of Supes and Bats lurks around. I'll start with page 17 of the issue, but I really want to discuss page 18 and page 20-21 in particular. punchmans, woo-oo  OK, so we see here that we're in an arena and some people are spectating. I put in silhouettes what I really want to focus on (I only included the whole page for context.)  So we have a character yelling "down in front!" He is actually a well-known member of either Supes' or Bats' rogues gallery -- so well known that even people who don't read comics have heard of him. Well, I guess it is pointless to try to block it out, but the other character is Darkseid. What I want to discuss though is the 2nd panel. From careful study I have determined that the "down in front" guy shouts "Usher! This man is annoying me!" and then RIGHT after that, Darkseid shoots lasers at him, narrowly missing. However, what it looks like is that at the same time as the "usher!" shout (since he's shouting WHILE dodging the laser) the laser travels FROM The crowd into Darkseid's eyes. I also want to point out that the panel is super left-heavy and not well-balanced at all. So this sequence commits a number of sins - it guides our eye in the wrong order, a famous character who ordinarily has a rather recognizable silhouette just seems like a generic guy, and events that clearly happen one right after another are presented as happening simultaneously.  So this is the next page - we are still dealing with the SAME "down in front" guy, but now it's like...wasn't he just in the arena seating? Where is he now? Look closely. Behind the jumble of word balloons you can see that this character is now IN the arena! So what happened to the combatants? Oh, they're still there (helpfully pre-silhouetted for me) but where are they with respect to the location of the point of view characters? And now...I'm not even gonna bother editing this piece of poo poo:  Blammo our heros teleport into the center of the arena - notice that Lex Luthor is far behind Supes in the establishing shot, but then Supes (with angry red eyes) talks to Mister Mxyzptlk (note how it's not clear from that shot that Mxyzptlk is bald on top) and then suddenly Supes is IN FRONT of Luthor, sticking his hand into Luthor's...robot chest? What is he breaking there? When did he get in front of Luthor? And I had to actually think about who Supes is talking to - he's still talking to Mister Mxyzptlk but we don't see Mxyzptlk's distinctive hair as it's cut by the panel border! So the previous panel with Mxyzptlk and this one show such different aspects of him that you'd have to check some other page to verify what he looks like head-on to realize it's the same character. And then we don't get another establishing shot so we really habe very little idea of who is where now. When did the Joker pop up? I guess he wandered over at some point off-panel. That would have been a great opportunity to show him coming over in the foreground while the characters talk in the background, since then we'd be able to see how they're standing in relation to one another. Oh yeah and the gently caress is Mxyzptlk doin' in the bottom row there? Well of course I can find out by reading the comic very carefully, but that's the point. The reader shouldn't have to read the comic very carefully or flip back and forth because they missed something. And this was done by an industry professional. I actually toyed with doing a webcomic like Misfile, but then I realized it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel. The "down in front" guy featured before was the Joker. Yep. The fuckin' joker who has crazy hair, a long chin, and marfan-esque limbs. Lost in a muddled mess.
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Apr 20, 2015 00:47
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Also, here are the silhouettes with background this time! Yay! Commentary to follow in a different post as I am now called away by real-life obligations.  
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Apr 20, 2015 00:58
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so is that panel where 17 is saying 'wow' supposed to be him on the ground? It doesn't really look like it.
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Apr 20, 2015 01:03
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Stallion Cabana posted:so is that panel where 17 is saying 'wow' supposed to be him on the ground? It doesn't really look like it. That's 18. His twin. The one with a very similar silhouette.
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Apr 20, 2015 01:09
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Stallion Cabana posted:so is that panel where 17 is saying 'wow' supposed to be him on the ground? It doesn't really look like it. Well, what you're seeing is the result of a design choice Toriyama made, for better or for worse. The sitting figure saying "wow" is 18! It looks like they were intentionally made to have a similar silhouette to show how robotic/non-unique they were. I personally think it was a poor choice since they do end up having distinct personalities AND it can muddle up a fight scene like this.
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Apr 20, 2015 01:09
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Wow, that is striking. Toriyama's silhouettes just makes those DC pages look like trash. You can basically always distinguish characters really easily - both from the background and from each other. I couldn't even tell the Down In Front Guy was a person without outside context.
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Apr 20, 2015 01:12
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Xibanya posted:Well, what you're seeing is the result of a design choice Toriyama made, for better or for worse. The sitting figure saying "wow" is 18! It looks like they were intentionally made to have a similar silhouette to show how robotic/non-unique they were. I personally think it was a poor choice since they do end up having distinct personalities AND it can muddle up a fight scene like this. As I mentioned in my first post in this thread, though I am only now just watching Dragon Ball for the first time, I know quite a bit about the series just through conversations with friends and general cultural osmosis. Concerning the android arc, I knew about Cell - that he existed at least - and Androids 16, 17, and 18 because it was a little hard not to. What I didn't know up until incredibly recently (around the same time I decided to get into Dragon Ball) was that there were actually two more androids apparently nobody talked about. "Yeah, Toriyama introduced two others who were intended to be the main threat of the arc, but his editor thought they looked dumb so he traded them up for some others." Curious, I decided to spoil myself a bit and go digging for an image.  First off, whoever Toriyama's editor was, that guy was an idiot cause these dudes look dope (though perhaps unmarketable). Secondly though, in light of everything Xibanya's been posting, I can actually see a lot of his points about Toriyama's proclivity towards distinct shapes and silhouettes (and even flow). Even if you scrubbed out both androids' details, there'd could never be any confusion which one was which. Also, some nice composition in this pic in particular. Much more visually engaging than either 17 or 18 from the images I've seen. Also also, that Darkseid panel's utter lack of flow finally helped me grasp what you meant before. It really is one of those things you don't notice until it's not there.
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Apr 20, 2015 01:35
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Bad Seafood posted:This actually reminds me of something. Former editor, and he also didn't like 16/17/18. Which is why we got Cell, then he didn't like Cell's forms until perfect, because Semi-Perfect looked retarded. You'll get there in time.
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Apr 20, 2015 02:24
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How can you not like Imperfect Cell? That was like the best form.
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Apr 20, 2015 02:30
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EVGA Longoria posted:I'm totally down for this, myself. New ridiculous designs, new chances for me to buy overpriced toys for myself. Honestly the two pitfalls of saving up for a house, needing space to put random toys, and cash to buy said toys. This year is the year! I keep telling myself.  As to the silhouettes, that first panel with Piccolo where he's throwing off his mantle, I at first thought maybe he lost his arm or something....
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Apr 20, 2015 02:35
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Raxivace posted:How can you not like Imperfect Cell? That was like the best form. It was also Toriyama's favorite.
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Apr 20, 2015 03:08
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Raserys posted:It was also Toriyama's favorite. Imperfect meaning 1st form, right? Not post-17 Fish Face cell?
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Apr 20, 2015 03:12
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Spiritus Nox posted:Imperfect meaning 1st form, right? Not post-17 Fish Face cell? Yeah. Fish Face Cell is "Semi-Perfect Cell".
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Apr 20, 2015 03:14
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Oh whoops, yeah Semi Perfect Cell is Toriyama's favorite.
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Apr 20, 2015 03:15
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I must be the minority but I thought perfect cell's form was great. It's tied with his first form for me.
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Apr 20, 2015 03:15
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Monaghan posted:I must be the minority but I thought perfect cell's form was great. It's tied with his first form for me. Nah, I liked Perfect Cell. Imperfect was the coolest design in its own right, but Perfect Cell was a better fit for "Punchyfists Final Boss."
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Apr 20, 2015 03:20
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It's the ancient anime rule of the final form being the prettiest.
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Apr 20, 2015 03:21
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Insect Cell has probably the best design for a villain in DBZ, no idea why Torishima thought another generic pretty boy would be better, even if the absorption idea is pretty great. My personal favorite though is Gero himself, the guy just looks eerie. Kind of like an old man, but his over exaggerated wrinkles make him look inhumanly ancient. So he just hits right into the middle of the uncanny valley for me, which is great for a cyborg. e X fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Apr 20, 2015 |
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Apr 20, 2015 03:22
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Don't like 20 at all as anything but a passing menace. Cell rules though.
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Apr 20, 2015 03:27
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And here are the unaltered pages from Superman/Batman #25.   You're welcome, thread. You're welcome. And more material for the Toriyama appreciation station: Guess what's going on here?  A fight scene! Yeah, these ladies are going at it with fisticuffs! But you'd be forgiven for thinking they were having a fun day out flying and horsing around. And can anyone tell me what's going on here?  No really you have to tell me because no way in hell am I going to actually bother to read any of that poo poo.
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Apr 20, 2015 03:47
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Xibanya posted:
Toryama's a great artist, but you're wrong if you are suggesting that George Perez is a bad artist. Guy's done a ton of great work (though this is a bad page). Monaghan fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Apr 20, 2015 |
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Apr 20, 2015 05:24
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He's not a bad artist but that is a bad page. Just because he was constrained by the need to wrap up that lovely company wide crossover doesn't excuse it. It may not be his fault - I don't wanna blame any one person, but c'mon that is not a fun read.
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Apr 20, 2015 06:04
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