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Stereotype posted:The context was he was saying it to other people who are also racist and wouldn't get upset with him. Yeah, seriously. Why can't he just openly say "I have a responsibility to understand the people who elected me and they hate blacks, so there you go"?
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Apr 20, 2015 05:13
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Samurai Sanders posted:Yeah, seriously. Why can't he just openly say "I have a responsibility to understand the people who elected me and they hate blacks, so there you go"? Because they don't hate blacks, being racist is Bad. They just hate those people unentited to life, who "don't work" or "get shot". It just so happens that all the people placed into that category are black, it isn't racism, its just a crazy coincidence.
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Apr 20, 2015 05:20
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blunt for century posted:Miss. State Rep.says some racist poo poo. News at 11 At least it was an apology of "I said some dumb things" and not the usual "I'm sorry I offended you" crap. FCKGW fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Apr 20, 2015 |
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Apr 20, 2015 05:30
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While were talking ancient history, how many American "liberals" supported the apartheid in South Africa?
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Apr 20, 2015 05:34
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Salvor_Hardin posted:Any time someone claims a damaging statement was made out of context it should be pro forma for them to explain the context. "I didn't do it with intent."
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Apr 20, 2015 05:36
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Stereotype posted:Because they don't hate blacks, being racist is Bad. They just hate those people unentited to life, who "don't work" or "get shot". It just so happens that all the people placed into that category are black, it isn't racism, its just a crazy coincidence. Yeah the dialog on racism really needs to shift from something that you are you to something that you do. Nobody is racist (actually everybody is racist), but things that you do are kinda racist sometimes
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Apr 20, 2015 05:36
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ErichZahn posted:While were talking ancient history, how many American "liberals" supported the apartheid in South Africa? I think that was always a Reaganite and anti-Communist thing? I'm not sure who supported it other than those camps. Nixon, Reagan, etc.
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Apr 20, 2015 05:54
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ErichZahn posted:While were talking ancient history, how many American "liberals" supported the apartheid in South Africa?
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Apr 20, 2015 06:20
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:Prior to the 1980s? I don't believe anyone really questioned it or even bothered with it until the 80s in the US, which is when it really picked up steam. I don't think it was actively supported so much as ignored. Yeah, active support for continuing apartheid was generally relegated to Bircher types and outright hate groups. Though of course before the 60s much of the US didn't have much of an issue with pretty intense segregation laws domestically so of course wouldn't oppose apartheid in SA.
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Apr 20, 2015 06:26
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Grouchio posted:Were there even worse republican trolls running amok in these threads before the 2008 election results? (when most of them got toxxd) I'd like to see some backlogs. Prior to the Iraqi war our discussions of Israel-Palestine that were overwhelmingly pro-Israel and there were quite a few D&D posters (famously including Grover, a mod) who insisted the war was going to be a cake walk. In fact I remember more than one person who suggested we attack Iran during the honeymoon phase of the war, back before the insurgency was really a thing. Lots, if not most, of the CE/D&D superstars were libertarian and/or conservative. El Pinto Grande and Fistgrrl ran most of them off and the latter Bush years made things swing pretty hard to the left.
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Apr 20, 2015 07:05
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Maarek posted:Prior to the Iraqi war our discussions of Israel-Palestine that were overwhelmingly pro-Israel and there were quite a few D&D posters (famously including Grover, a mod) who insisted the war was going to be a cake walk. In fact I remember more than one person who suggested we attack Iran during the honeymoon phase of the war, back before the insurgency was really a thing. Lots, if not most, of the CE/D&D superstars were libertarian and/or conservative. El Pinto Grande and Fistgrrl ran most of them off and the latter Bush years made things swing pretty hard to the left.
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Apr 20, 2015 07:07
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Samurai Sanders posted:I was just thinking about that today and how we should be glad that Bush only took the opportunity to invade and destroy two countries, when 9/11 probably gave him enough power that he could have flattened the entire middle east. If you believe Wes Clark, the administration fully intended to do just that, right up until it became clear that Iraq was an inescapable quagmire.
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Apr 20, 2015 07:23
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I'm glad that everyone is appropriately informed about the likelihood of man made EMP but those of us in planning government emergency response actually do talk about EMP as a serious infrastructure threat because the last bout of seriously bad solar weather happened in the 80s and were really not sure how poo poo will go down in the next 30 year event ( and yes that's due soon) http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/08/01/solar_storm_a_massive_2012_cme_just_missed_the_earth.html See attached pictures.
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Apr 20, 2015 08:28
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PupsOfWar posted:If you believe Wes Clark, the administration fully intended to do just that, right up until it became clear that Iraq was an inescapable quagmire.
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Apr 20, 2015 08:30
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PupsOfWar posted:If you believe Wes Clark, the administration fully intended to do just that, right up until it became clear that Iraq was an inescapable quagmire. The Onion Mar 9, 2005 Bush Announces Iraq Exit Strategy: 'We'll Go Through Iran'
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Apr 20, 2015 08:33
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Samurai Sanders posted:So they were operating under the assumption that they could whack Iraq and walk away and everything would be just great forever after? What kind of idiots did they even have over there? Actually don't answer that. They had it in their heads that it'd be the domino theory in reverse. Bring glorious democracy to Iraq and all the other middle eastern nations would shed their tyrants by themselves.* *not available in Saudi Arabia.
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Apr 20, 2015 08:33
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Ron Jeremy posted:They had it in their heads that it'd be the domino theory in reverse. Bring glorious democracy to Iraq and all the other middle eastern nations would shed their tyrants by themselves.*
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Apr 20, 2015 08:36
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Good Citizen posted:Yeah the dialog on racism really needs to shift from something that you are you to something that you do. Nobody is racist (actually everybody is racist), but things that you do are kinda racist sometimes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Ti-gkJiXc Jay Smooth owns, video is "How to tell someone they sound racist," and is great. His voice is amaaaazing. Magres fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Apr 20, 2015 |
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Apr 20, 2015 09:06
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Where does hating someone stand on the continuum of being versus doing?
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Apr 20, 2015 09:07
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Samurai Sanders posted:Right around 9/11, I was taking a political science class on the developing world. My professor said over and over again that true and lasting government change can't come from the outside (or at the very least, can't APPEAR that it came from the outside). I guess no one in the Bush administration took that class. I've heard this but I don't know if its anything more than a platitude that came about after Vietnam. Didn't the US do an awful lot of regime changes during the cold war? Didn't the Soviets do likewise with Eastern Europe? Isn't there a fuckton of historical examples in general of an outside entity setting up puppet governments or otherwise dictating how things are run in their sphere of influence? I think its accurate to call it a lot more difficult and dirty than people would like to imagine, but taking a strict "can't ever work" approach seems sort of simplistic. Likewise, I'm not really convinced that Iraq was "unwinnable" at the start (although everything about the idea was generally stupid, don't get me wrong). A lot of the terrible results came about since the Bush Admin. was generally awful at actually carrying out an occupation, from the "hailed as liberators" sentiment, appointing the living turd in human form, Paul Bremer, to manage Iraq, and otherwise doing basically nothing to prevent the establishment of an insurgency. This may not be a very popular opinion.
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Apr 20, 2015 09:16
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I remember in the lead up to the Iraq war there were rumors that "serious people" were going to bring back the draft so that the US could war like 5 wars at once. Post-9/11 people would believe anything, and my classmates really did think that they were going to draft us all to go die in the desert. For a hot minute there when Iraq was turning to poo poo I believed it myself. To this day I am shocked they managed to get enough people in uniform to not only implement the surge in Iraq, and then Afghanistan, but also to wage war in both places at once.
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Apr 20, 2015 09:26
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MC Nietzche posted:I remember in the lead up to the Iraq war there were rumors that "serious people" were going to bring back the draft so that the US could war like 5 wars at once. Post-9/11 people would believe anything, and my classmates really did think that they were going to draft us all to go die in the desert. For a hot minute there when Iraq was turning to poo poo I believed it myself. To this day I am shocked they managed to get enough people in uniform to not only implement the surge in Iraq, and then Afghanistan, but also to wage war in both places at once. The bonuses were loving amazing, I hear from everybody.
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Apr 20, 2015 09:58
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Vahakyla posted:The bonuses were loving amazing, I hear from everybody. Between that and the height of the bubble inflating people's lifestyles, 2007 must have been a loving great time to sell Corvettes.
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Apr 20, 2015 10:17
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Vahakyla posted:The bonuses were loving amazing, I hear from everybody. That, and they were pretty much accepting people that had a pulse and hadn't committed a felony in the last 6 months.
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Apr 20, 2015 10:22
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Chantilly Say posted:Between that and the height of the bubble inflating people's lifestyles, 2007 must have been a loving great time to sell Corvettes. Early on it was Mustangs. SHITLOADS of Mustangs. From a few pages ago, yes, the Airforce is chock full of weirdo Evangelical types that I had to interact with growing up on various bases.
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Apr 20, 2015 10:24
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Somewhere in New Hampshire: Somewhere in Kansas: 
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Apr 20, 2015 10:46
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Potential BFF posted:Early on it was Mustangs. SHITLOADS of Mustangs. Question. What's the ratio of collateral kills vs. actual enemy fighter kills for the air force altogether anyway? Any reliable statistics on that?
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Apr 20, 2015 11:00
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ErichZahn posted:While were talking ancient history, how many American "liberals" supported the apartheid in South Africa? As others have mentioned, it wasn't so much on the radar screens of American politics until the 1980s. In the 80s it was pretty much a plank of American liberalism to be against the Botha regime and apartheid. Since you asked the question, are you aware of notable examples to the contrary?
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Apr 20, 2015 12:07
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SnakePlissken posted:Question. What's the ratio of collateral kills vs. actual enemy fighter kills for the air force altogether anyway? Any reliable statistics on that? There are, though you run into the issue of how enemy and collateral are defined. On of the more bullshit things the Obama administration has done is deem every male over the age of 13 to be enemy rather than collateral so that fucks the numbers. IIRC even after you unfuck the numbers, drone strikes are the best we have for minimizing collateral damage, something like 23 innocents for every enemy. Not that drones are particularly good, that is still 23 dead people for every presumed threat (and our ways of picking threats are dodgy), just that cruise missiles, bombing runs, artillery strikes, and ground invasions are worse for how many people get caught up in it. Anyways for the air force altogether the information is out there, though I'm not sure where
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Apr 20, 2015 13:11
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Whenever your worst arzy tendencies begin to surface, I want you to remember this.
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Apr 20, 2015 14:05
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zoux posted:Whenever your worst arzy tendencies begin to surface, I want you to remember this.
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Apr 20, 2015 14:14
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El Disco posted:That, and they were pretty much accepting people that had a pulse and hadn't committed a felony in the last 6 months. The first term Bush economic slowdown helped a lot too. Plus the use and abuse of the Guard and Reserves.
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Apr 20, 2015 14:16
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zoux posted:Whenever your worst arzy tendencies begin to surface, I want you to remember this. Hasn't all this narrowed significantly in more recent polling?
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Apr 20, 2015 14:20
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Nope. Sorry about your doomsday fantasies. Seriously, it's like you guys crave bad news. JT Jag posted:Yes but how does our old friend Generic Republican Candidate fare against Hillary? I don't think they're running.
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Apr 20, 2015 14:23
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zoux posted:Whenever your worst arzy tendencies begin to surface, I want you to remember this. Not that polls at this time really matter, but this comes down to a lot of name recognition, or lack thereof for the Republican candidates.
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Apr 20, 2015 14:30
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zoux posted:I don't think they're running. Walking if it's Christie 
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Apr 20, 2015 14:30
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Bird in a Blender posted:Not that polls at this time really matter, but this comes down to a lot of name recognition, or lack thereof for the Republican candidates. So your argument is that Marco Rubio has the highest q score among GOP candidates.
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Apr 20, 2015 14:32
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Zwabu posted:Hasn't all this narrowed significantly in more recent polling? That's the most recent polling, it dropped this morning
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Apr 20, 2015 14:38
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Tiler Kiwi posted:I've heard this but I don't know if its anything more than a platitude that came about after Vietnam. Didn't the US do an awful lot of regime changes during the cold war? Didn't the Soviets do likewise with Eastern Europe? Isn't there a fuckton of historical examples in general of an outside entity setting up puppet governments or otherwise dictating how things are run in their sphere of influence? I think its accurate to call it a lot more difficult and dirty than people would like to imagine, but taking a strict "can't ever work" approach seems sort of simplistic. The reason that the Iraq war was unwinnable is that our goal wasn't to defeat Iraq. If it was we did that real quick, like in six days, but that would be a war against the country of Iraq. The actual goal was to defeat terrorism, which is both something you can't actually do, and something invading a country won't fix. It was more of a proxy war on terror that happened in Iraq, and then we decided to expand it into Afghanistan which is about as stupid an idea as there can be. Someone with better historical knowledge talk about historical foreign puppet governments ending up poorly (or working, as the case may be).
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Apr 20, 2015 14:46
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America is still loving amazing at conventional warfare, it dismantled the state of Iraq in less than a week. It just hasn't wrapped its head around the idea that the world has moved on to an age where asynchronous warfare is more commonplace.
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Apr 20, 2015 14:54
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