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sword_man.gif posted:reminder that one of the dungeon silver medal times was 75 minutes, literally over an hour for a speed clear of a dungeon, and you had to hope that the servers which were notorious for making GBS threads themselves didn't do that once in that hour, and also that everyone played very well for that entire time Game DESIGN
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Apr 20, 2015 14:29
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I hope f2p players would be forced to use literal cardboard and tin gear so they would properly understand their position on the social hierarchy of wildstar userbase. Also paying players would automatically use /poo poo emote on them if nearby. Carbine, hire me.
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Apr 20, 2015 14:32
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Verranicus posted:https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/124774-q-carbine-are-you-changing-your-business-model/page-1  My connection isn't hardcore enough. 
Evil Mastermind fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Apr 20, 2015 |
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Apr 20, 2015 14:44
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One of the decisions that baffled me the most was the way they handled paths. You can go around hunting dangerous monsters. You can explore the zone finding hidden passages and complete jumping puzzles. You can dress up a scan bot and us it to unlock lore bits and scan monsters for bonuses. And you can collect junk to build up the various towns and provide other players with handy buffs. All of these had their own leveling system that would dispense neat travel powers and goofy outfits. When you put all of this together you have something that is genuinely fun, something that encourages higher level players to stick around lower level zones and maybe help out the new guys with the more difficult quests. Honestly, I think all MMOs should have systems like this, so, how did Carbine gently caress this up? By putting all these fun things into four completely separate boxes and not only are you never allowed to open a second box, but you have to make the choice before you've even played the drat game. Like when I made my first character I chose settler because building up towns and helping out other players sounded fun. Only for it too turn out the like 90% of the things you build are crappy little buff stations. Add too that I kept seeing these explorers running around on these high up places and scientists showing off their kickin' scan bots, both of which looked way more fun. So after about 20 hours I decided I wanted to try a different path only to remember that the hardcore demi-gods who made this decided having ALL the fun at once is for filthy casuals and I would need to make a new character and level again. As silly as this might sound, the fact I couldn't explore all these out of the way places and have a scan bot at the same time is one of the big things that killed this game for me.
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Apr 20, 2015 14:46
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Pulsarcat posted:Like when I made my first character I chose settler because building up towns and helping out other players sounded fun. Only for it too turn out the like 90% of the things you build are crappy little buff stations. Add too that I kept seeing these explorers running around on these high up places and scientists showing off their kickin' scan bots, both of which looked way more fun.
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Apr 20, 2015 14:51
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Really, the worst thing they did was cater so hard to the "hardcore" demographic with their PR. Now every time they gently caress up an element of the game design it gets attributed to a hardcore mentality on the design staff now. This is even if it was just a badly planned feature instead of intended to be hardcore. People are just going to assume that's how the game was supposed to be designed instead of it being a shittily planned feature at release that could be patched later on. I'm betting that outside of folks like Timetraveler everyone left in management is making GBS threads their pants at the failing state of the game at the moment. Plenty of MMO's have plenty of lovely release day features that get patched out later, along with rough periods. Now, even if they do fix the game up a bit they've chased off most of their consumers and left themselves with a ridiculously militant P2P favoring lunatic base. So even if they fix a lot of the poo poo that chases people off they're still going to alienate a portion of their base. I bet a fair number of people in the company are praying F2P takes well enough that they can regain some of the trust and larger consumer base they've lost. If only because if they fix all the horrid grinding, bad UI elements, and all the other poo poo in the game after that particular population boom the game is pretty much done for no matter what they do. Archonex fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Apr 20, 2015 |
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Apr 20, 2015 14:53
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This thread made me want to go curious so I took a look at the wildstar reddit. The top story was someone posting a few screenshots where they highlighted 3 or 4 new players running around the world. That's apparently newsworthy in a mmo game. I checked out the comments and people said its either bots or already existing players who just made secondary characters on the opposing faction to mess up their pvp queues, whatever that even means.
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Apr 20, 2015 14:53
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I can imagine. Someone in general: guys come see, there's a new kid on the block. Cue staring and creepy whispers.
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Apr 20, 2015 14:54
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The one good thing that comes out of Wildstar is that the next time some one pitches a "Hardcore" mmo they are just reminded of this and go back to making clones of Clash of Clans for android and iOS.
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Apr 20, 2015 14:55
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Well you see we're gonna have 60 man raids so its gonna be superhardcore and obviously very successful, unlike that nerfed casual poo poo. e: My only 40 man raiding experience is anniversary MC40 and it was absolutely hilarious. That's my raiding story thanks and god bless.
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Apr 20, 2015 14:56
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cthulhoo posted:Wait, 75 minutes to clear 5 man content is considered a speed run? Holy poo poo. I actually really enjoyed the first half of Cata. That being said it wasn't so much that those dungeons were difficult. They were just tedious as you had to cc every pack. That's not hardcore that's just tedious. Something I think is missed a lot when content is being made difficult.
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Apr 20, 2015 14:59
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) and boy did it suck.
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cthulhoo posted:e: My only 40 man raiding experience is anniversary MC40 and it was absolutely hilarious. That's my raiding story thanks and god bless. The anniversary MC40 was great because they didn't scale back on any of the BS mechanics like core hound packs and all the decursing that was needed so it was an utter poo poo show.
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Apr 20, 2015 14:59
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Archonex posted:I'm betting that outside of folks like Timetraveler everyone left in management is making GBS threads their pants at the failing state of the game at the moment. Plenty of MMO's have plenty of lovely release day features that get patched out later, along with rough periods. Now, even if they do fix the game up a bit they've chased off most of their consumers and left themselves with a ridiculously militant P2P favoring lunatic base. So even if they fix a lot of the poo poo that chases people off they're still going to alienate a portion of their base. The company may have chased off the old cupcake-level players, but any attempt to get new people in will be dead in the water because the existing HARDCORE MOTHERFUCKER playerbase'll probably chase them all off.
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Apr 20, 2015 15:01
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cthulhoo posted:e: My only 40 man raiding experience is anniversary MC40 and it was absolutely hilarious. That's my raiding story thanks and god bless. Anniversary MC40 was beautiful in that it was a celebration of shared suffering. Forty hateful masochists joined together in pursuit of a mount and loot that will be impossible to get for years to come. The majority of which knowing full well that the experience was going to be a living hell and probably waste of hours of their life. In a way, it was actually a bit of a community building exercise. Most of the runs I ended up on had people reach a feverish peak of hatred and desire to inflict misery on the other players in the raid. Only to snap and suddenly become sociable when they were pushed so far into their frustration that it just didn't matter any more to them. At that point they either dropped out of the raid or the sunk cost fallacy kicked in and they started casually shooting the poo poo with people while everyone else slowly caught up to the same realization they had. It was a bit terrifying/amazing to watch, really. Blizzard created one of the best reminders on the market as to why old school raiding is dead. And they did it by simply updating one of their old dungeons to the current max level. Archonex fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Apr 20, 2015 |
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Apr 20, 2015 15:04
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Minrad posted:Man, there's been multiple threads that do nothing except talk about how lovely this game is and yet people constantly post this to fool themselves into thinking they don't just wanna play a bad game. Man up and admit you want to play bad game, or have some self respect for your free time and spend the 15 bucks it takes to get a game on sale on Steam or sub to one of the like, two MMOs that aren't dying right now. I assure you that my desire to actually play Wildstar for more than a week is almost zero unless they really pull a 180 when they go F2P and the game is actually enjoyable. Crazier things have happened but I don't expect this to be one of those cases. After that, I will go back to playing good video games and "respect my free time" I guess?
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Apr 20, 2015 15:06
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BigPaddy posted:The anniversary MC40 was great because they didn't scale back on any of the BS mechanics like core hound packs and all the decursing that was needed so it was an utter poo poo show. You can see it was entirely intended to be able to show people 'no it wasn't better back then, it was worse, shut the gently caress up and enjoy actual good raiding content you clowns'. The speedrunning gating in the attunement chain blows my mind though. I did the full set of CM golds and there was a specific jumping trick that if you didn't get right a minute into everbloom you reset and went again. The longest runs were about 25 minutes and that was taxing to the point of being unrealistic for most people. Asking for that level of concentration for over an hour is taking the piss.
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Apr 20, 2015 15:13
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Evil Mastermind posted:The company may have chased off the old cupcake-level players, but any attempt to get new people in will be dead in the water because the existing HARDCORE MOTHERFUCKER playerbase'll probably chase them all off. It's kinda sad how evidently true this is, as reading over the forums I AM seeing a lot of angsting about B2P/F2P in the form of "But when we open up the gates, all of these PEOPLE will come in and ruin our EXCLUSIVE AND UNIQUE COMMUNITY!" I swear some of these people believe if they cry hard enough their tears will save the game.
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Apr 20, 2015 15:34
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i am tim! posted:It's kinda sad how evidently true this is, as reading over the forums I AM seeing a lot of angsting about B2P/F2P in the form of "But when we open up the gates, all of these PEOPLE will come in and ruin our EXCLUSIVE AND UNIQUE COMMUNITY!" I swear some of these people believe if they cry hard enough their tears will save the game. I feel that the game could have done a lot better with a better team at Wildstar. With all of the mistakes made with regards to PvP, PvE dungeons, and PvE Raids, the communication from the team was absolute garbage and fixes were too slow/didn't event come. I really wanted this game to succeed because it was a lot of fun and unique, but I guess they didn't.
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Apr 20, 2015 15:38
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i am tim! posted:It's kinda sad how evidently true this is, as reading over the forums I AM seeing a lot of angsting about B2P/F2P in the form of "But when we open up the gates, all of these PEOPLE will come in and ruin our EXCLUSIVE AND UNIQUE COMMUNITY!" I swear some of these people believe if they cry hard enough their tears will save the game. To be fair, in any opening day F2P scenario these people are such a minority that they would get drowned out by all the new players. The odds of them chasing anyone off are slim to none. It's probably more the opposite, really. Picture one man angsting over the game in the midst of a sea of prospective new players. If F2P does come they'll be pretty much relegated back to being "that rear end in a top hat that no one wants to group with" within a few days assuming they don't change their attitude. Though perhaps that explains one of the reasons why some of them don't want it to happen. It's hard to be a special snowflake when there are much more sociable people who can do what you do.
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Apr 20, 2015 15:40
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Archonex posted:Though perhaps that explains one of the reasons why some of them don't want it to happen. It's hard to be a special snowflake when there are much more sociable people who can do what you do. The MMO player's plight.
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Apr 20, 2015 15:44
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i am tim! posted:It's kinda sad how evidently true this is, as reading over the forums I AM seeing a lot of angsting about B2P/F2P in the form of "But when we open up the gates, all of these PEOPLE will come in and ruin our EXCLUSIVE AND UNIQUE COMMUNITY!" I swear some of these people believe if they cry hard enough their tears will save the game. Speaking as someone who's seen this exact scenario play out in tabletop RPGs god knows how many times, there's also a "they won't appreciate it as much as we do" factor at play here. The people who've been sticking with WildStar for ages are the true fans, not these hipster Johnny-come-lately casuals.
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Apr 20, 2015 15:50
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I just want to see what the most anti-F2P people on the official forums (people like Lethality, the guy with the Animal avatar) who are always smugly saying it will never happen will do when it inevitably does.
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Apr 20, 2015 16:15
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I originally thought Timetravel was just making a self-aware joke about his stubbornness with that GIF - a charitable thought swiftly decimated by the "Thanks for the feedback" reply that followed after.
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Apr 20, 2015 16:30
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Verranicus posted:I just want to see what the most anti-F2P people on the official forums (people like Lethality, the guy with the Animal avatar) who are always smugly saying it will never happen will do when it inevitably does. Whinepost about unsubbing a lot. e: It's a slap in the face, etc
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Apr 20, 2015 16:47
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cthulhoo posted:Whinepost about unsubbing a lot. You can't unsub now, the game is F2P 
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Apr 20, 2015 16:48
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BigPaddy posted:You can't unsub now, the game is F2P I'm sure there's gonna be a premium subscription and hilarious restrictions for those not paying. Like swtor but worse.
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Apr 20, 2015 16:54
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cthulhoo posted:I'm sure there's gonna be a premium subscription and hilarious restrictions for those not paying. Like swtor but worse. Of course and if it isn't worse than TOR and the pop ups every 10 minutes asking you to go premium or even having to buy basic stuff like your first bank tab then clearly the hardcore developers will have already bailed.
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Apr 20, 2015 17:24
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F2p players should have winner.gif somewhere on the UI permanently visible imo.
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Apr 20, 2015 18:01
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If it goes B2P or F2P I'll log in again just to gently caress with my house. I had a sweet house. It's a goddamn shame the house is the only thing I rated as awesome about this game.
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Apr 20, 2015 18:07
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BigPaddy posted:The anniversary MC40 was great because they didn't scale back on any of the BS mechanics like core hound packs and all the decursing that was needed so it was an utter poo poo show. I did MC40 once as a warrior tank. I hosed up and pulled a second pack of magma hounds with heroic leap but everyone thought it was just funny and we didn't actually wipe. By the time we got to rag we were all yelling the names of our attacks in chat like it was dragon ball Z because you go more than a little insane in that environment. Archonex posted:Really, the worst thing they did was cater so hard to the "hardcore" demographic with their PR. Now every time they gently caress up an element of the game design it gets attributed to a hardcore mentality on the design staff now. This is even if it was just a badly planned feature instead of intended to be hardcore. People are just going to assume that's how the game was supposed to be designed instead of it being a shittily planned feature at release that could be patched later on. If it was only timetraveler who was being a grognard idiot, they would have shouted him down by now because the overwhelming evidence is that they need to change the direction their game is going and that doubling down on HARDCORE was a big mistake. There probably are some people in Carbine hoping for a f2p switch and a change in direction, but I doubt many of them are in any positions of authority. It's debatable whether the bugs or being HARDCORE drove away more people, but I'm guessing most people were driven away by both. That's a pretty potent cocktail of lovely game design and execution.
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Apr 20, 2015 18:12
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Rhymenoserous posted:If it goes B2P or F2P I'll log in again just to gently caress with my house. I had a sweet house. It's a goddamn shame the house is the only thing I rated as awesome about this game. If it goes B2P/F2P, you're probably going to log in to most of your housing lot locked off until you buy a PROTOSTAR BUILDING PERMIT only $5.99 per section of your land.
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Apr 20, 2015 18:12
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Rhymenoserous posted:If it goes B2P or F2P I'll log in again just to gently caress with my house. I had a sweet house. It's a goddamn shame the house is the only thing I rated as awesome about this game. Housing will definitely be the first thing they hide behind a PREMIUM account. More decorations and housing upgrades will definitely be mega cash shop stuff.
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Apr 20, 2015 18:14
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SarutosZero posted:Housing will definitely be the first thing they hide behind a PREMIUM account. More decorations and housing upgrades will definitely be mega cash shop stuff. i bet they make it so you have to be premium to attune or some dumb poo poo too lol
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Apr 20, 2015 18:21
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It'll be even better, you need sub to have a house at all and the protostar NPCs actually make fun of you for being a poor and give you a cardboard box underneath someone else's house to live in while laughing at you.
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Apr 20, 2015 18:22
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Bauxite posted:It'll be even better, you need sub to have a house at all and the protostar NPCs actually make fun of you for being a poor and give you a cardboard box underneath someone else's house to live in while laughing at you. That sounds amazing, I don't know what you're talking about.
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Apr 20, 2015 18:24
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Rhymenoserous posted:If it goes B2P or F2P I'll log in again just to gently caress with my house. I had a sweet house. It's a goddamn shame the house is the only thing I rated as awesome about this game. I might take a spin again if it goes f2/b2. Do you know who's got Space Jam? If anyone actually clicks the login button, transfer all your dudes to the PvE megaserver since Warhound is quite literally a ghost town.
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Apr 20, 2015 18:30
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Bauxite posted:It'll be even better, you need sub to have a house at all and the protostar NPCs actually make fun of you for being a poor and give you a cardboard box underneath someone else's house to live in while laughing at you. Would unironically play this.
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Apr 20, 2015 18:30
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Bauxite posted:I did MC40 once as a warrior tank. I hosed up and pulled a second pack of magma hounds with heroic leap but everyone thought it was just funny and we didn't actually wipe. By the time we got to rag we were all yelling the names of our attacks in chat like it was dragon ball Z because you go more than a little insane in that environment. If you didn't approach the MC40 instance as a "get drunk and laugh at this awful instance/these awful people" experience than you were probably doing it wrong. quote:If it was only timetraveler who was being a grognard idiot, they would have shouted him down by now because the overwhelming evidence is that they need to change the direction their game is going and that doubling down on HARDCORE was a big mistake. There probably are some people in Carbine hoping for a f2p switch and a change in direction, but I doubt many of them are in any positions of authority. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that Time_Traveler is the only one in the company who is an idiot when it comes to this. But they're either moving towards shutting the game down or F2P. A sane business plan would indicate the latter. Not that the Carbine devs have always acted in a sane manner when it comes to doing business. As for the bugs and "hardcore" (Read: Tedious as poo poo.) gameplay, it was probably a mix of both. I could have dealt with the bugs, but the gameplay itself was just abysmal. Especially the grinding. Dear god. What the gently caress. Who thought the amount of grinding in this game was acceptable? The mobs I encountered felt like they were overtuned to take way too long to kill, the quests gave minimal XP for the amount of effort I put into many of them, and the game itself is just poorly paced in many areas. I never even bothered to hit the cap. Which is something for me since I tend to have a lot of patience with games like this. Archonex fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Apr 20, 2015 |
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Apr 20, 2015 18:42
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Eonwe posted:i bet they make it so you have to be premium to attune or some dumb poo poo too lol they will make it so it takes like 8 months of straight grinding if you're on a non-premium account or some poo poo like that before you are allowed to do raids
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Apr 20, 2015 18:44
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I can't believe nobody mentioned the obvious way to monetise hardcore gamers. Charge a double price premium sub which doesn't change the loot or visuals or anything, but makes the game arbitrarily harder for you but not anyone you play with. So you can prove you are truely hardcore you get an icon next to your name like say 
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