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site posted:How localized would a sun-based EMP be on Earth? Like, that map shows all of the US being affected, but would it also hit the whole upper hemisphere? Would it affect all of Earth? Depends on how large the ejection is really, and the smaller the better since one that effects the earth globally would probably really gently caress up our magnetosphere, possibly permanently and since that's the thing that protects us from all the really bad radiation in the universe that would be Ghostbusters levels of really bad.
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Apr 20, 2015 20:30
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A Winner is Jew posted:Depends on how large the ejection is really, and the smaller the better since one that effects the earth globally would probably really gently caress up our magnetosphere, possibly permanently and since that's the thing that protects us from all the really bad radiation in the universe that would be Ghostbusters levels of really bad. Its probably best not to think too hard about it, because there's, our electronics are hosed and lol goodbye earth levels of damage possible but the latter is far less likely or we wouldn't still be here.
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Apr 20, 2015 20:32
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You guys would appreciate this - I went to a baseball game last night, and on the jumbotron they did an "Ask an audience a trivia question for a prize!" thing, and the trivia question was something like "Which president had a pet named whatever." The answers were A) Bill Clinton B) Ronald Reagan C) George W Bush They asked the member of the crowd what his answer was, and he responded "My heart and my best intentions tell me that the answer is Reagan, but the facts and the evidence tell me that it was George W Bush." 
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Apr 20, 2015 20:33
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site posted:How localized would a sun-based EMP be on Earth? Like, that map shows all of the US being affected, but would it also hit the whole upper hemisphere? Would it affect all of Earth? The problem is that overloading one area can easily cause cascading failures in connected parts of the grid, so the damage caused by the actual event would be much smaller than the follow-on effects.
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Apr 20, 2015 20:33
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Munkeymon posted:They're working on it http://www.nerc.com/pa/Stand/Pages/Project-2013-03-Geomagnetic-Disturbance-Mitigation.aspx You can see the event they're planning on dealing with in "Benchmark GMD Event White Paper" on there but I can't comment on how reasonable it is because I know gently caress all about electronics at this scale aside from being constantly amazed it all keeps working somehow. I'd be far more worried about mundane or human causes for the grid to collapse. Those are more much more likely. As the currently unsolved 2013 terrorist attack against an electricity substation proves, who needs the sun when we have bullets!
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Apr 20, 2015 20:35
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Grouchio posted:I was wondering if it would irreparably fry my laptop or cellphone or other appliances/devices if they were on during one. Or if they'd be fried regardless of being on or not. IANAE but if all electronics were turned off and unplugged, probably also with the battery disconnected on your laptop, you'd be fine. I think our best line of defense to prevent horrible catastrophe is to have early sensing satellites giving us a few hours/days notice and then shutting everything down in the affected area until it all blows over. The damage comes from the magnetosphere going nuts when it gets hit by a solar storm, so anything with current going through it is going to have unpredictable behavior. Sort of like your home's plumbing if the moon's tidal force was suddenly way more powerful, you'd see weird things like your toilet backflowing or your faucets bursting. Remove the current and you'd remove the problem, but I would also guess that very large infrastructure ike miles of high voltage lines could actually generate current itself under the right conditions. boner confessor fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Apr 20, 2015 |
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Apr 20, 2015 20:36
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SgtScruffy posted:They asked the member of the crowd what his answer was, and he responded "My heart and my best intentions tell me that the answer is Reagan, but the facts and the evidence tell me that it was George W Bush." That Guy / Biden 2016
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Apr 20, 2015 20:36
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Popular Thug Drink posted:IANAE but if all electronics were turned off and unplugged, probably also with the battery disconnected on your laptop, you'd be fine. I think our best line of defense to prevent horrible catastrophe is to have early sensing satellites giving us a few hours/days notice and then shutting everything down in the affected area until it all blows over. Our best warning time is about 7 to 15 minutes because these effects are traveling at a fraction of light speed. Hours warning will require time travel or sun diagnostics that can see an ejection coming before it appears.
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Apr 20, 2015 20:41
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A Winner is Jew posted:...gently caress up our magnetosphere, possibly permanently Nah, it doesn't work that way. You can't just degauss a planet like that since the magnetic field is being generated by internal processes.
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Apr 20, 2015 20:41
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Really what everyone should take away from this is the Sun is an angry God and we should do more to appease it and worry less about if our policy is Bibi approved or anti abortion because the Sun gives no fucks.
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Apr 20, 2015 20:44
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ReidRansom posted:Nah, it doesn't work that way. You can't just degauss a planet like that since the magnetic field is being generated by internal processes. Until it's not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal
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Apr 20, 2015 20:46
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Was all this stuff about the Sun loving up a power grid on a global scale a topic of some early morning news report? Because I swear, I and my coworkers just had this exact discussion popping up out of the blue during lunch break.
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Apr 20, 2015 20:48
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Zwabu posted:As others have mentioned, it wasn't so much on the radar screens of American politics until the 1980s. In the 80s it was pretty much a plank of American liberalism to be against the Botha regime and apartheid. Since you asked the question, are you aware of notable examples to the contrary? Was seeking parallels to Israel-worship.
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Apr 20, 2015 20:49
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ringu0 posted:Was all this stuff about the Sun loving up a power grid on a global scale a topic of some early morning news report? Because I swear, I and my coworkers just had this exact discussion popping up out of the blue during lunch break. Jeb Bush got a question about it yesterday in New Hampshire and said we need to strengthen the grid. Though usually the people who bang on about an EMP attack in American politics think it's going to be done by terrorists detonating nukes in the atmosphere.
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Apr 20, 2015 20:50
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If you want to know why an EMP is pitched as this huge pants making GBS threads terror that ignores the realities of their creation or effect, consider the framework of the messaging that paints it as the huge pants making GBS threads terror When the neutron bomb was first introduced, it was referred to as the capitalist bomb. Because (on paper) it completely wiped out the people (the workers, the labor) and left all the machines (means of production) and wealth (capital) intact and ready for use as soon as you walked in and carted off the corpses. The theoretical EMP bomb would be the exact opposite. All the workers would be fine, but the automated manufacturing lines, the high frequency trading networks, the debt records, those would all be toast. All of a sudden the important people would be the ones who can work with their hands and grow some food, or purify water, or build houses. Being able to arrange venture capital to set up a hedge fund so you can take advantage of low latency to skim off trade margins will be out, the abuela who has been working in a sweatshop and can make a shirt, she's suddenly in. I don't really go for readings like this but here and with their terror of AI I really do think the elites are showing their hand. It would completely upend the balance of power (or AI, an enforcer they aren't positive they can rig, bribe, or coerce) and they know it
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Apr 20, 2015 20:51
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Joementum posted:Jeb Bush got a question about it yesterday in New Hampshire and said we need to strengthen the grid. Oh I see, thanks.
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Apr 20, 2015 20:54
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RuanGacho posted:Really what everyone should take away from this is the Sun is an angry God and we should do more to appease it and worry less about if our policy is Bibi approved or anti abortion because the Sun gives no fucks. You can do a lot worse than worshipping the sun. Unlike Xenu the sun gets poo poo done. It grows corn for me to eat, provides light for me to see, warmth for me to be comfortable in, and actually does randomly shoot off bolts of death. Beats tossing DC-8s into a volcano.
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Apr 20, 2015 20:54
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Fried Chicken posted:You can do a lot worse than worshipping the sun. Unlike Xenu the sun gets poo poo done. It grows corn for me to eat, provides light for me to see, warmth for me to be comfortable in, and actually does randomly shoot off bolts of death. Beats tossing DC-8s into a volcano. This Amenhotep IV heresy bullshit should be bannable in my opinion.
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Apr 20, 2015 20:56
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RuanGacho posted:Our best warning time is about 7 to 15 minutes because these effects are traveling at a fraction of light speed. Hours warning will require time travel or sun diagnostics that can see an ejection coming before it appears. Yeah, the latter is what I was talking about. I mean we should be putting a lot of science around the Sun anyway, but if we frame it as a defense of national security it might get paid for.
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Apr 20, 2015 20:57
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Fried Chicken posted:You can do a lot worse than worshipping the sun. Unlike Xenu the sun gets poo poo done. It grows corn for me to eat, provides light for me to see, warmth for me to be comfortable in, and actually does randomly shoot off bolts of death. Beats tossing DC-8s into a volcano. Praise Lord Zun.
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Apr 20, 2015 21:04
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SgtScruffy posted:You guys would appreciate this - I went to a baseball game last night, and on the jumbotron they did an "Ask an audience a trivia question for a prize!" thing, and the trivia question was something like "Which president had a pet named whatever." The answers were I have an extremely hard time believing someone would actually say that and NOT be a poster here.
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Apr 20, 2015 21:05
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When should we expect the next great solar storm then?
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Apr 20, 2015 21:09
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Schizotek posted:Praise Lord Zun. Lord ZUN?
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Apr 20, 2015 21:10
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I think the sun should self-fund any research that goes into understanding it. Radbot 2016.
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Apr 20, 2015 21:11
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A solar storm like the Carrington Event is estimated as a 500-year storm, not a 100-year storm. Here's the problem: when the Sun erupts it sends a massive wave of charged particles at Earth. Those hit the magnetosphere which deflects a lot of the particles back into space or towards the poles. The magnetic field of the flare material interacts with Earth and compresses the leading edge of the magnetosphere closer to Earth, which gives the magnetosphere less time to redirect stuff out of the way. More charged particles make it into the atmosphere. If you get enough making it through, they begin putting an electrical load on large systems, like power grids, which is how why they shut down. The Carrington storm did some crazy poo poo. The storm put so much electical load on telegraph lines that operators could turn off their generators and send messages through on the solar load alone. In some cases, there was enough energy to set telegraph stations on fire (sparks caught the ticker tapes on fire, which spread to the stations) and St. Elmo's fire was reported on a number of lines during the peak of the storm. A modern repeat would gently caress up our transmission infrastructure pretty badly, just because it would require hard shutdowns of generation plants, and in places where we can't isolate the grid from generation the induced current will flow back in and mess with the generation hardware. That said most consumer electronics will be okay as long as they're unplugged, aside from the loss of satellite-based services and intense radio interference. It's not one of those things that will render all electronics permanently useless.
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Apr 20, 2015 21:18
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Grouchio posted:When should we expect the next great solar storm then? We are in the middle of a storm cycle until 2022 (as we understand it). There is a 12% chance of there being another 2012 size massive CME between now and then
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Apr 20, 2015 21:20
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I don't know what the gently caress that is, I was refering to the sun god of pre-islamic Afghanistan.
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Apr 20, 2015 21:32
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Fried Chicken posted:You can do a lot worse than worshipping the sun. Unlike Xenu the sun gets poo poo done. It grows corn for me to eat, provides light for me to see, warmth for me to be comfortable in, and actually does randomly shoot off bolts of death. Beats tossing DC-8s into a volcano. George Carlin posted:And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.
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Apr 20, 2015 21:35
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SgtScruffy posted:You guys would appreciate this - I went to a baseball game last night, and on the jumbotron they did an "Ask an audience a trivia question for a prize!" thing, and the trivia question was something like "Which president had a pet named whatever." The answers were Bravo 
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Apr 20, 2015 21:36
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Venusian Weasel posted:A solar storm like the Carrington Event is estimated as a 500-year storm, not a 100-year storm. Is it a function of exposed conductive unshielded area? Like telegraph wires weren't exactly EM shielded back then, so their length resulted in that kind of effect?
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Apr 20, 2015 21:38
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Coming this summer from the publishers of the Rand Paul comic book.
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Apr 20, 2015 21:46
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Joementum posted:Coming this summer from the publishers of the Rand Paul comic book. Jeb shrugged
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Apr 20, 2015 21:47
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:Jeb shrugged Who is "Jebediah Arbusto?"
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Apr 20, 2015 21:48
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Joementum posted:Coming this summer from the publishers of the Rand Paul comic book. You know, I regard myself as fairly cynical and mercenary, but apparently I have nothing on these guys
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Apr 20, 2015 21:48
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Joementum posted:Coming this summer from the publishers of the Rand Paul comic book. Atlas Scowled
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Apr 20, 2015 21:48
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FAUXTON posted:Is it a function of exposed conductive unshielded area? Like telegraph wires weren't exactly EM shielded back then, so their length resulted in that kind of effect? That's part of it, but another thing is that the storm also creates ground currents. Part of the 1989 Quebec grid collapse is attributed to the induced ground currents flowing back making their way back into the power grid and blowing circuit breakers. The larger the grid the easier it is to overwhelm with induced currents.
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Apr 20, 2015 21:52
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:Atlas Jowled
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Apr 20, 2015 21:53
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Joementum posted:Coming this summer from the publishers of the Rand Paul comic book.
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Apr 20, 2015 21:54
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The keynote speaker for the Prescott S. Bush Dinner in Stamford Connecticut this year: Marco Rubio 
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Apr 20, 2015 21:56
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Joementum posted:The keynote speaker for the Prescott S. Bush Dinner in Stamford Connecticut this year: Marco Rubio
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Apr 20, 2015 21:58
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