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Wolpertinger posted:This sounds like a kinda dumb plot and I don't think the series would benefit by making Matt an irredeemable rear end in a top hat and terrible person. The sad thing? I'm actually not sure WHICH girlfriend's being talked about there. I assume Heather, though? Whom Matt was such an manipulative, uncaring rear end in a top hat towards that she became an alcoholic and killed herself? Because pretty sure the MCU isn't gonna have one of it's heroes be a textbook abusive boyfriend.
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Apr 14, 2015 01:22
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Wolpertinger posted:This sounds like a kinda dumb plot and I don't think the series would benefit by making Matt an irredeemable rear end in a top hat and terrible person. Yeah, Miller's Daredevil isn't really known for being good.
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Apr 14, 2015 01:37
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Unmature posted:Yeah, Miller's Daredevil isn't really known for being good. There's morally ambiguous and 'not good' and then there's abusive boyfriend who drives woman to suicide.
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Apr 14, 2015 01:56
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Wolpertinger posted:There's morally ambiguous and 'not good' and then there's abusive boyfriend who drives woman to suicide. I meant the quality of the comic you called "dumb" without reading it.
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Apr 14, 2015 02:16
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Unmature posted:I meant the quality of the comic you called "dumb" without reading it. Even good comics can have dumb bits. And making the main character of your superhero comic be a manipulative rear end in a top hat who drives his girlfriend to alcoholism and suicide sounds like a dumb bit to me. Daredevil has a lot of moral ambiguity, but that sort of crosses the line from 'ambiguity' into 'utterly terrible person'. Why kill all audience sympathy for the main character for some shock value? Look what the punch did for Hank Pym, and driving someone to suicide is considerably worse than that. Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 03:14
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Yeah Frank Miller's Daredevil is a almost a straight up Anti-Hero, but it's also incredibly well drawn and pretty good. It get's almost comically dark.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:15
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So I started reading Frank miller's run and I am about 10 issues in. Once I finish reading all of Miller's work I think I will bite the bullet and read all of Volume 2 before checking out some side books like yellow (what other sidestories/graphic novels would you recomend?) then finally finishing with Waid's run. However I was wondering is there really nothing worth while in Volume 1 outside of Stan Lee and Frank Miller's respective runs?
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Apr 14, 2015 09:48
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Antequek posted:So I started reading Frank miller's run and I am about 10 issues in. Once I finish reading all of Miller's work I think I will bite the bullet and read all of Volume 2 before checking out some side books like yellow (what other sidestories/graphic novels would you recomend?) then finally finishing with Waid's run. Typhoid Marys first story is supposed to be pretty swish. I believe its being collected soon. But other than that, its either terrible to try-hard Miller-ism.
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Apr 14, 2015 10:24
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Antequek posted:So I started reading Frank miller's run and I am about 10 issues in. Once I finish reading all of Miller's work I think I will bite the bullet and read all of Volume 2 before checking out some side books like yellow (what other sidestories/graphic novels would you recomend?) then finally finishing with Waid's run. Ann Nocenti's run is quite good, especially when John Romita Jr. is on art. And I say that as someone who doesn't like JR JR. Roy Thomas/Gene Colan's run isn't too bad either, if you want a more Silver Age "Classic" comic.
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Apr 14, 2015 12:35
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I really don't think Lee's Daredevil is all that good. A Poor Man's Spider-Man is exactly it.
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Apr 14, 2015 13:09
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I have a friend who's interested in theology and who's curious in the religious/theological aspects of Daredevil, are there any specific trades I could recommend her which would contain issues that deal with such moral conflicts? Thanks.
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Apr 15, 2015 04:12
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Benny the Snake posted:I have a friend who's interested in theology and who's curious in the religious/theological aspects of Daredevil, are there any specific trades I could recommend her which would contain issues that deal with such moral conflicts? Thanks. Frank Miller's run is the big one. Bendis run has some elements along with the Waid's Original Sin tie in.
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Apr 15, 2015 04:18
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Also, I'm guessing you're asking because of the Netflix series, but if you're not there's that as well and it plays a pretty big role in that.
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Apr 15, 2015 04:45
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Benny the Snake posted:I have a friend who's interested in theology and who's curious in the religious/theological aspects of Daredevil, are there any specific trades I could recommend her which would contain issues that deal with such moral conflicts? Thanks. He might like Decalogue.
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Apr 16, 2015 01:57
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Kevin Smith's run also deals heavily with the religious aspect of the character. I remember liking it when I first read it, but I've soured on Kevin Smith a lot so I'm not sure if it will hold up. But at least it had some excellent Quesada art.
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Apr 16, 2015 02:09
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Codependent Poster posted:Kevin Smith's run also deals heavily with the religious aspect of the character. I remember liking it when I first read it, but I've soured on Kevin Smith a lot so I'm not sure if it will hold up. But at least it had some excellent Quesada art. Haha armor up, the wolves are coming... The biggest thing i can say about Smiths run is that it got me into Daredevil, so I'm always a little partial to it.
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Apr 16, 2015 02:15
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Smith's run was okay at best but elevated Daredevil back into the spotlight which is generally the best you can hope for with a celebrity guest writer.
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Apr 16, 2015 02:23
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i don't hate Smith's run, it's got its moments but it's definitely got its problems too. his Green Arrow run is legitimately good, though.
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Apr 16, 2015 03:24
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At some point DD seriously considers murdering a baby. gently caress that run.
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Apr 16, 2015 06:00
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So at what point does Foggy actually find out about Matt being Daredevil?
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Apr 16, 2015 06:10
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notthegoatseguy posted:So at what point does Foggy actually find out about Matt being Daredevil? Mid 90's, Daredevil #347 is the exact issue. Just after all the armour Daredevil nonsense.It was long overdue and had been pushed to ridiculous points throughout the years with the likes of Mike Murdock. Matt is basically crazy at the time and doing the "fighting under multiple personas" thing and Foggy ends up seeing him without his mask and puts everything together, finally. It's all really terrible though and not really worth reading outside of curiosity really.
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Apr 16, 2015 08:44
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Is that part of the Fall from Grace storyline? I've always wondered if that was worth reading. While it feels like I don't miss too much by going from The Fall of the Kingpin storyline to Kevin Smith's run and the rest of Vol2 whenever I binge read DD in order there are the occasional moments that feel like there are gaps that need filling what with Foggy knowing Matt is Daredevil and Matt not being all that surprised to see Elektra is still alive during the Bendis run or Foggy suddenly having 2 different mothers
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Apr 16, 2015 09:37
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AFoolAndHisMoney posted:Is that part of the Fall from Grace storyline? I've always wondered if that was worth reading. While it feels like I don't miss too much by going from The Fall of the Kingpin storyline to Kevin Smith's run and the rest of Vol2 whenever I binge read DD in order there are the occasional moments that feel like there are gaps that need filling what with Foggy knowing Matt is Daredevil and Matt not being all that surprised to see Elektra is still alive during the Bendis run or Foggy suddenly having 2 different mothers The revealing identity stuff comes after the Fall from Grace event itself when they try to do another mini reboot to try and fix the book following the armor Daredevil and "killing off Matt". Fall From Grace is terrible that i could only suggest if someone has extreme 90's nostalgia or is a completionist that likes to suffer. The comics that follow are terrible too, kind of made worse since they try to retcon Elektra Assassin and some of the issues come out parallel to Miller returning with Man Without Fear. And the Elektra stuff doesn't even get given a proper explanation in the Daredevil title so if you're looking for one the story doesn't give it. I can't remember if the early 00's book gave a proper explanation, it's been a few years since I read it.
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Apr 16, 2015 10:40
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Waterhaul posted:The revealing identity stuff comes after the Fall from Grace event itself when they try to do another mini reboot to try and fix the book following the armor Daredevil and "killing off Matt". Fall From Grace is terrible that i could only suggest if someone has extreme 90's nostalgia or is a completionist that likes to suffer. The comics that follow are terrible too, kind of made worse since they try to retcon Elektra Assassin and some of the issues come out parallel to Miller returning with Man Without Fear. I still think one of the stupidest recons is that Typhoid Mary is the prostitute that Matt knocked out of the window in Man without fear. I love that series, but not sure how I feel about that version of Elektra.
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Apr 16, 2015 14:58
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Didn't the Typhoid Mary retcon lead to the pretty good Mary/Daredevil issues in Kelly's Deadpool. though?
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Apr 16, 2015 15:39
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Waterhaul posted:The comics that follow are terrible too, kind of made worse since they try to retcon Elektra Assassin and some of the issues come out parallel to Miller returning with Man Without Fear. Elektra Assassin was never intended to be in line with regular comics (unlike Love and War, which was shifted to "graphic novel" line because editorial did not like the humpty dumpty Kingpin, bastards).
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Apr 16, 2015 15:40
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fatherboxx posted:Elektra Assassin was never intended to be in line with regular comics (unlike Love and War, which was shifted to "graphic novel" line because editorial did not like the humpty dumpty Kingpin, bastards). Oh I know and different retcons or continuity is dumb anyway but it just irks me when people do it. The terrible Shadowland did the same with turning Matt into The Beast.
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Apr 16, 2015 15:45
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So I'm reading through the Miller run. I've read bits and pieces of it, mostly the first half before, but this second half is almost all new to me. The Foggy issue was really good. I was surprised that Miller pulled off a fun issue. My question is about Heather Glenn. There's lots of talk about Matt trying to trick Heather into marrying him. Did I skip an issue or something? I remember a last page of an issue with a marriage proposal, and then Heather only comes back an issue or two later and accepts. Also, Matt is kind of a dick to her when he talks about her and her company. Really masochistic. It is almost like 1960s Reed Richards levels of "woman should be making food and babies" type stuff.
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Apr 17, 2015 15:27
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Hakkesshu posted:At some point DD seriously considers murdering a baby. gently caress that run. Well, just read the run, and spoilers sorta invalidate the "seriously" there: he's under heavy psychotropic drugs that activate whenever he thinks about that baby. But, of course, that's a stupid spoiler, and nah, I don't really recommend the run. What I really can barely believe is that KEVIN SMITH is the guy who wrote Bullseye killing Karen Page, which seems like such a monumental thing in the Bendis and Waid runs. It did not get its due in Smith's.
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Apr 17, 2015 16:54
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onefish posted:
That comic is always the greatest example to me of the complete change of what comics became valuable. A comic with a major character death in the 70s and 80s quickly became high value - now, nearly worthless. I was going to pay my college tuition with my 90s collection. 
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Apr 17, 2015 17:10
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...I liked Foggy and Karen together and rather strongly assume that this will never happen. Do the comics corroborate this? Is it just me? Other people I've talked to just don't like Foggy.
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Apr 17, 2015 22:41
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Soylentbits posted:...I liked Foggy and Karen together and rather strongly assume that this will never happen. Do the comics corroborate this? Is it just me? Other people I've talked to just don't like Foggy. i was practically ready to start fan shipping Karen and Foggy by like halfway through the season, those two had great chemistry together. Elden Henson's a funny dude. i don't think they were ever a couple in the comics but i could be wrong
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Apr 17, 2015 22:44
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The early issues have a lot of Karen trying to mother Matt because he's blind and Foggy being a grump because Karen's into Matt and not him. They have a much better dynamic in the show.
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Apr 17, 2015 22:53
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Inkspot posted:The early issues have a lot of Karen trying to mother Matt because he's blind and Foggy being a grump because Karen's into Matt and not him. They have a much better dynamic in the show. i probably said this already, but Karen is way better in the show, period. they went a long way towards making her an interesting character, pairing her and Ben Urich up was a good call too.
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Apr 17, 2015 22:56
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Inkspot posted:The early issues have a lot of Karen trying to mother Matt because he's blind and Foggy being a grump because Karen's into Matt and not him. They have a much better dynamic in the show. Also Karen wanting him to stop being blind as his life must suck as he is blind.
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Apr 17, 2015 23:48
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bobkatt013 posted:Also Karen wanting him to stop being blind as his life must suck as he is blind. Thanks for this.
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Apr 18, 2015 07:57
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There's a part in early Miller's run where he first meets Elektra and he's totally mackin' on her and she's all "you seem cool but errr" - "I get it... I'm blind" and then he flips out and does ninja moves and spills everything about his superpowers at the drop of a hat, and what the gently caress is going on
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Apr 18, 2015 09:54
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Hakkesshu posted:There's a part in early Miller's run where he first meets Elektra and he's totally mackin' on her and she's all "you seem cool but errr" - "I get it... I'm blind" and then he flips out and does ninja moves and spills everything about his superpowers at the drop of a hat, and what the gently caress is going on Matt Murdock is terrible at secret identities.
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Apr 18, 2015 10:13
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One of Miller's things as well is that Matt usually acts...normal enough but Elektra is the one person that makes him act crazy around her.
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Apr 18, 2015 10:25
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Netflix has announced that Daredevil is renewed for season 2 to air in 2016 with Doug Petrie and Marco Ramirez taking over showrunners. This is really interesting cause it means they aren't sticking to the initial 4 solo series leading to Defenders strategy. It looks like any of these shows could get a second season right away if they're successful. http://deadline.com/2015/04/marvel-daredevil-renewed-season-2-netflix-1201413923/
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Apr 22, 2015 01:33
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