Double Monocle posted:Oh god Raid finder gave you 3 tanks, aoe dps was fine and you obviously didn't know any good ele shamans, 40 man guilds were so cliquey that it was basically "10 people you knew and liked and 30 people who existed but you never talked to," so same poo poo, and mages and druids of all specs still have remove curse on an 8 second cooldown. If you're gonna be a lovely grognard at least be right, dude. I only played WoD for like 2 months and even I know all this poo poo.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:13
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To get me back to wildstar, I'd have to see proof that the game was headed in a new direction, and the only way I would believe that would be to acknowledge mistakes. I'm still shocked that, when asked in an interview about content for people who didn't raid, one of the developers thought that "They can always roll an alt" was an answer that would inspire confidence.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:19
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Oh, hey! The Wildstar thread is back! This is almost like an AA group for me to remember my time playing this game. I really, really wanted this game to succeed. I really liked the combat system and felt it had a good "foundation". At it's core it was fun to play, and if the developers weren't elitist assholes, this game could have really been something cool. But that was not the case. Echoing pretty much everything that has already been said in this thread about the game. Itimization was mentioned before, but I think it hasn't been mentioned enough how bad it was and what killed it for me. The attunement sucked, but I tried to immerse myself in GS help and try REALLY hard to get attuned (I also never got one silver). I thought the dungeons were mostly fun, but having to do armor break rotations on dungeon trash was loving stupid. Anyone having lag? gently caress YOU. Someone new to DPS and doesn't know they can even do it? gently caress YOU. Did you not take the right build so you can break 2 armor with an ability? gently caress YOU. Did someone on mumble call for an armor break and two DPS did it at the same time and have abilities on CD? gently caress YOU. Didn't establish an armor break rotation at the beginning of the dungeon? gently caress YOU. I think the armor breaking ability was interesting for a boss or maybe a few trash pulls, but it was ALL THE TIME. Maybe I'm a minority and it's "Stop being bad", or maybe my mind has made it a bigger deal than it really was, but it really created a terrible environment for even ATTEMPTING dungeons. I only went to a single dungeon as a healer because I was focusing so hard on not messing up, I did and got discouraged (personally) from even trying again. I didn't want to go in on a silver attempt and gently caress up and ruin attunement for everyone else. GS had to set up "Silver runs" and "learning runs" so people wouldn't feel bad about joining dungeons. Dungeons just weren't very approachable. What killed it for me and pretty much was when I stopped playing was realizing that itemization was so hosed, that there was no god drat reason to play. Wildstar wanted gear progression to go like this: Entry Craft Gear -> Adventures -> Dungeons/epic craft gear -> RAIDS!!! Want to know what it was really like? Entry Craft Gear/Adventures -> Raids Like was said earlier, they hosed up the gear that crafting a entry blue item for 49 and maxing the main stat and lowering all others you could would give you the best DPS/healing. Adventures were (mostly) easy to get gold in and they used to guarantee an epic item. Too many people farmed them from Adventures, and people would instantly disband a group if gold was off the table. Carbine then made getting gold give you a better chance of getting an epic item, but it was not guaranteed. I probably golded one adventure (the dota one) 30 times and saw one epic. I didn't win it. Dungeon blues were absolute dogshit and Adventure/reputation/entry crafting was WAY better, with dungeons being a bitch to even do. With crafted and reputation gear, I had 3 BiS items. I never silvered a dungeon or stepped into a raid. Edit: Good point. What the gently caress is an armor break? Let's say a mob had an armor of 3. You had to use special abilities to "break" the armor (most only "broke" one or two at a time). These were mostly done as interrupts for "interrupt this or it very likely could wreck your group" mob abilities. Let's say you have 4 people, and all of them have an interrupt to break 1 armor (all of them have cool downs as well). All your other party members would have to use their abilities to "break the armor" to 0, then you would have to use yours to actually interrupt the cast. Careful though! If you all don't cast it within about 1.5 seconds of each other, that armor will regenerate to 3 instantly, and it would be impossible to interrupt. mrbass21 fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 20:20
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quote:armor break rotations in case you never played wildstar and don't get what this retarded premise was: in a genre where it's considered a miracle if you have a dps willing to interrupt spells, they decided interrupting spells should require multiple people all interrupting in order to break through "interrupt armor" so it would count
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Apr 21, 2015 20:25
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mrbass21 posted:
That sounds tedious as gently caress. If the developers through that was a good idea then they are clearly delusional.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:38
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BigPaddy posted:That sounds tedious as gently caress. If the developers through that was a good idea then they are clearly delusional. it could be say, a gimmick that one raid boss utilizes, and it would be fine. every single dungeon boss utilizing it that tediously is not fine
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Apr 21, 2015 20:42
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sword_man.gif posted:it could be say, a gimmick that one raid boss utilizes, and it would be fine. Every single boss? There were world mobs who had it.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:57
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sword_man.gif posted:it could be say, a gimmick that one raid boss utilizes, and it would be fine. remember that, to make it even more retarded, classes would have multiple interrupts, but they'd have to slot them. Most of them were a DPS loss and some classes had no interrupts (I think medic but I'm not really sure) and some classes could have like 4 interrupts, so if you planned ahead you could have one person take care of interrupting certain mechanics by themselves at the cost of competely changing their build and gimping their dps. It's like they made the solution to the problem but then made it such a stupid loving solution it became worse than the original problem.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:58
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Evil Mastermind posted:Every single boss? There were world mobs who had it. Now I am having flashbacks to getting adds with interrupt armor in low-to-mid level overworld questing. I can't imagine trying to have a fun, relaxing questing session as a non-engineer.
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Apr 21, 2015 21:40
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mrbass21 posted:Oh, hey! The Wildstar thread is back! This is almost like an AA group for me to remember my time playing this game. At least they've fixed the itemization stuff, way too late, but still fixed. I think my (not) favorite thing was how there were like 10 copies of each Adventure or Dungeon drop. Different names, all the same stats. Oscar Wilde Bunch fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 21:42
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I actually kind of liked the armor break mechanic as a dungeon mechanic because it did kind of reward you for coordination/rotation and I can see it being a useful learning tool for raids. I guess that is kind of a microcosm for wildstar: a few pretty good ideas slathered in layers upon layers of actual poo poo.
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Apr 21, 2015 22:25
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It's worth mentioning that one reason interrupting mobs with concerted armor breaking was important is that if you managed to land that interrupt the mob was not only stunned but took 50% bonus damage for about 5-8 seconds. This isn't necessarily a bad idea for a more action-oriented MMO, the problem was that dungeons had set their enemy HP built around the assumption your party would be doing flawless interrupt rotation, IE they had about 50-75% more HP than was necessary and were rendered more or less just big obnoxious sacks of HP. If you actually were going for Silver on a dungeon there's a reason people did every trick, skip, and jump they could to avoid trash packs. There were also plenty of bosses that demanded you do flawless interrupt rotations or you weren't hardcore and were to be purged and say goodbye to your Silver medal. Basically "Landing an interrupt is bonus damage and that's cool" is a good idea, "Landing an interrupt is bonus damage and that's MANDATORY" is Wildstar. Can I also say again that the entire attunement grind was a hideous idea? For people who worship at the altar of Vanilla WoW Carbine doesn't remember it all that well (though I can't say that's really a surprise). The reason we even call the act of getting permission to enter a raid "Attunement" is because of the old quest "Attunement to the Core" which you did to get a shortcut into Molten Core in WoW. The actual requirements for that original attunement? Walk to the entrance of Molten Core Proper, fetch a little crystal, and you're done. That very first attunement was definitely the easiest, but the fact is that old WoW attunements were things you could actually reasonably do. The Onyxia and Karazhan entrance quests were long chains that required dungeon runs yes, but they were things you could readily knock out in an afternoon with your guildies to get up to speed. The massive attunement web of BC was a hilarious artifact of bad old design trends, but on the other hand the majority of it was just "Go do dungeons while you're getting gear and rep and badges". Even then there's a reason that WoW dropped all attunements wholesale in Wrath of the Lich King, you don't actually NEED some big long stupid time sink to separate the raiders from the casuals, the actual raids do quite a good job of it on their own.
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Apr 21, 2015 23:17
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wtfmoses posted:I actually kind of liked the armor break mechanic as a dungeon mechanic because it did kind of reward you for coordination/rotation and I can see it being a useful learning tool for raids. I guess that is kind of a microcosm for wildstar: a few pretty good ideas slathered in layers upon layers of actual poo poo. The real problem is that having an idea doesn't mean jack, no matter how good it is. Look at kickstarter games and early access on steam, plenty of them have neat ideas that are steaming loving piles because the devs have no idea what they're doing. The basic idea for interrupt armor is a middling to okay idea with a lot of basic problems, but every single part of the execution was lovely.
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Apr 21, 2015 23:32
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SpaceDrake posted:See my This is weird because WS felt way more like Burning Crusade than Vanilla WoW to me. Vanilla tried to be a living breathing world, like previous MMOs, to some extent while BC just went full themepark. If anything Wildstar took this even further since it was pretty much just a linear path to max level. There was nothing like Black Rock Depths in Wildstar.
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Apr 22, 2015 00:07
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on page 4: they sharply disagreed with the direction Burning Crusade and beyond took and honestly thought their ideas about content design and progression were better. I wish I understood how they manage to avoid stepping out of their echo chamber for so long.
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Bauxite posted:The real problem is that having an idea doesn't mean jack, no matter how good it is. Look at kickstarter games and early access on steam, plenty of them have neat ideas that are steaming loving piles because the devs have no idea what they're doing. The basic idea for interrupt armor is a middling to okay idea with a lot of basic problems, but every single part of the execution was lovely. Ideas are a dime a dozen, that's why the running joke at software startup for the bullshit job is 'ideas guy'. The magic and value is actually effectively executing on and realising those ideas. One of the most popular game franchises was literally 'plumber, platformer mushrooms, go.'
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Apr 22, 2015 00:14
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The Moon Monster posted:This is weird because WS felt way more like Burning Crusade than Vanilla WoW to me. Vanilla tried to be a living breathing world, like previous MMOs, to some extent while BC just went full themepark. If anything Wildstar took this even further since it was pretty much just a linear path to max level. I still feel like BC was very open world with a lot of the daily quests, some world objectives, and farming areas (elemental plateau). Granted they introduced flying but still, TBC felt pretty living and breathing to me.
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Apr 22, 2015 01:11
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SpaceDrake posted:
I kind of want to build on the whole eldergem shitshow. Not only did you require over a weeks worth of gems to unlock atunement, you then needed to grind out several hundred more for extra AMP points(320 gems) and skill points(400 gems). You could buy something like ten AMP and seven skill points. One of the top raiding guilds abused the poo poo out of a bug where the vendor was selling these and not taking the gems within the first few weeks so they could max it all out. It was that or the cap wasn't working properly, I honestly forgot which but would not be surprised if it were both. It's totally okay though because both have something like a .6% chance of dropping off of some random mob in a daily zone.
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Apr 22, 2015 01:28
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about eldergems
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Bombogenesis posted:I kind of want to build on the whole eldergem shitshow. Not only did you require over a weeks worth of gems to unlock atunement, you then needed to grind out several hundred more for extra AMP points(320 gems) and skill points(400 gems). You could buy something like ten AMP and seven skill points. One of the top raiding guilds abused the poo poo out of a bug where the vendor was selling these and not taking the gems within the first few weeks so they could max it all out. It was that or the cap wasn't working properly, I honestly forgot which but would not be surprised if it were both. They're just cosmetic items for sale now, I think they moved all the character stuff to renown.
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Apr 22, 2015 01:44
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Bombogenesis posted:I kind of want to build on the whole eldergem shitshow. Not only did you require over a weeks worth of gems to unlock atunement, you then needed to grind out several hundred more for extra AMP points(320 gems) and skill points(400 gems). You could buy something like ten AMP and seven skill points. One of the top raiding guilds abused the poo poo out of a bug where the vendor was selling these and not taking the gems within the first few weeks so they could max it all out. It was that or the cap wasn't working properly, I honestly forgot which but would not be surprised if it were both. No, a certain painting in the architect crafting tree was selling for elder gems. Raiding groups were mass producing these and passing them out so folks could max out.
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Apr 22, 2015 02:08
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You know, reading this whole thread and the previous one yet not having played Wildstar beyond a 2 hour stint in the beta makes me pretty interested in trying it now. Not because I think it's going to be good -- it's more "Can it really be that bad?" I'm legitimately curious if there's ANY fun to be had in the game or if it's just all this huge shitshow of misery.
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Apr 22, 2015 02:11
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Rhymenoserous posted:No, a certain painting in the architect crafting tree was selling for elder gems. Raiding groups were mass producing these and passing them out so folks could max out. This is definitely a more bizarre bug than what I was told. How does a thing like that happen?
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Apr 22, 2015 02:18
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Bombogenesis posted:This is definitely a more bizarre bug than what I was told. How does a thing like that happen? Lack of QA
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Apr 22, 2015 03:12
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The Moon Monster posted:This is weird because WS felt way more like Burning Crusade than Vanilla WoW to me. Vanilla tried to be a living breathing world, like previous MMOs, to some extent while BC just went full themepark. If anything Wildstar took this even further since it was pretty much just a linear path to max level. Wait, if there was no BRD, how did a dungeon take 75 minutes to speedrun, or don't I want to know??
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Apr 22, 2015 03:36
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Byolante posted:Wait, if there was no BRD, how did a dungeon take 75 minutes to speedrun, or don't I want to know?? quote:Sanctuary of the Swordmaiden is a level 50 Dungeon located in north west Wilderrun. It is the largest 5 man instance and features a non-linear level design. There are six bosses, a random subset of five optional bosses, and one event. It has at least twice as many bosses as every other dungeon, with Wildstar boss mechanics.
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Apr 22, 2015 03:57
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Pathos posted:You know, reading this whole thread and the previous one yet not having played Wildstar beyond a 2 hour stint in the beta makes me pretty interested in trying it now. Not because I think it's going to be good -- it's more "Can it really be that bad?" I'm legitimately curious if there's ANY fun to be had in the game or if it's just all this huge shitshow of misery. I honestly think the reason this thread is still so active is due to two groups of people. 1. People that knew early on the game was founded by crazy elitists, and just want to see the thing implode. 2. People that played and saw how GOOD the game could have been if not for stupid decisions. Number two is why I read and post. It's almost like the developers made all the wrong choices and, despite that, Wildstar was still somewhat fun. Housing was amazing and could have funded the game if those morons had catered to that crowd even a little. There were statistics after the first two months or so that a vast majority of players got to the level for houses and stayed there. A fraction of the total population were even level 40. I thought a lot of the boss fights were fun in dungeons, despite timers and trash as dangerous as the boss. I really enjoyed the telegraph system and double jumps. Like, I REALLY liked it. I hope someone outright steals it and makes an accessible game. Shiphands were really fun. Farside. Do I need to mention anything else on that? This game just satisfied so much of what I wanted from an MMO, and to see all those good parts overshadowed by all the loving terrible decisions to keep the game "hardcore" is really sad. If Wildstar was stable and accessible, I'd even think about subbing again. Until then I'm going to watch this cluster gently caress double down on bad choices and burn itself into the ground. Edit: Another thing that was infuriating? Leveling in a group. I leveled with my wife and some quests would share objectives, and some wouldn't. Oh, I need to interact with 10 of this item. Gratz. You need to interact with 10 * number of people in the party for everyone to be done with the quest. Instead of making the leveling system a little faster in group, everything took twice as long to do. It was way more efficient to solo level. mrbass21 fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 06:26
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If this game manages to last another couple years after they finally plop out a 'hail mary' f2p patch then maybe it will be worth playing, but that's a lot of maybe. I wanted it to be awesome, and there were so many glimmers of great in there but it was all washed away by the developer's HARDCORE surge of brown pus-filled rear end-backwards ideas about what is fun. The reason people were so hardcore back in EQ days is only super fuckin sperg-out nerds played those kinda games. Nobody has time for that bullshit anymore.
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Apr 22, 2015 07:08
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I still really like the housing in Wildstar. if it goes f2p I will probably just spend my time earning currency to do more cool housing stuff and ignore endgame whatevers. if they lock housing behind a subscription i doubt i will even bother playing. The combat was fun too when you weren't just smashing your head against stupid bullshit. i still don't know why they purposefully designed the entire leveling experience around people doing it as a full group instead of allowing solo players to do it too
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Apr 22, 2015 07:38
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There's some show or stream where a guy (assuming he works for Carbine since they keep referring to the show as the only real advertisement going on for the game) levels a character from 1 to the cap with a group of friends or whatever to show that it isn't all ahrdcore and that casuals can have fun too. Apparently he isn't good enough for the community because all they do is talk poo poo about him, and they wonder why they're seen as a joke. https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/124974-zero-to-fiftyomg-what-a-mess/ EDIT: One of them seems to have realized the irony of it all. Only one, though. 
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Apr 22, 2015 08:30
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Flipping through that thread, I spotted something else. I'm the staff with the ponytar.
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Apr 22, 2015 08:42
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While endgame attunement is the easy target, the game hemorrhaged most of its population before they even got to cap. It was a soulless themepark filled with bugs. Every time you walked into a new area, 900 kill quests got in your face like pop ups on a porn site. The dungeons weren't numerous or rewarding enough for you to ignore the quests. And it was also the only game I've played where I've felt like I might get a repetitive stress injury from having to hammer on keys. Those were the real damning issues imo. If the leveling grind had been less poo poo, I think it would have bought them some time. That said, I actually did enjoy the dungeons. I really liked the boss mechanics with telegraphs. I thought the armor breaking was a fun mechanic. I liked a lot of the music, liked the art style, and thought the comic book sci fi space opera setting was a cool idea if they'd pulled it off a bit better.
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Apr 22, 2015 10:09
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I enjoyed WildStar initially. I have no idea why I stopped playing. I got to that area after Farside and, well.. The constant botting in PvP or the farmers who warped through the world and took all the resources were goddam annoying. The UI was shithouse. Absolute poo poo. The ways Exiles spoke annoyed the poo poo out of me, too, CUPCAKES. I reckon reckon reckon reckon reckon. However, I liked the art, the music, the style, the challenges and extra poo poo. The story was kind of intriguing. I liked playing the AH as people were dumb. People would list their poo poo at lower prices than everyone else without paying attention for what it vendored for and I would buy up hordes of AMPs & meat and poo poo and just throw it at an NPC. But maybe that comes down to the poo poo UI again. I hadn't really thought about WildStar at all recently until I saw this thread. It feels odd to have completely forgotten about something I once cared for. Whatever. What's for lunch?
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Apr 22, 2015 11:29
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Pathos posted:You know, reading this whole thread and the previous one yet not having played Wildstar beyond a 2 hour stint in the beta makes me pretty interested in trying it now. Not because I think it's going to be good -- it's more "Can it really be that bad?" I'm legitimately curious if there's ANY fun to be had in the game or if it's just all this huge shitshow of misery. One thing that made me quit before the real problems with this game hit me is the combat system. I liked the telegraphs, but the action combat just didn't feel very actiony to me. The enemies felt like they just chased me around all of the time and I was getting hit even though the arc of their weapon swings clearly did not touch me. I was expecting combat in this game to have actual hit boxes that were more precise as well as enemy AI which did more than just stick to me like glue like they do in WoW. I don't know if it gets better later in the game or not. I got bored too fast to find out. Xavier434 fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 15:10
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A MMO where you have to be on point with every single mob you fight or you die sounds really exhausting. "Go kill 30 space bears for me" *15 hours and 3 carpal tunnels later* "Finally done!" *You are rewarded 700 exp and 300 space gold as your quest reward* "Yessssss only 43782 more exp to go until level 20!"
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Apr 22, 2015 15:21
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Xavier434 posted:One thing that made me quit before the real problems with this game hit me is the combat system. I liked the telegraphs, but the action combat just didn't feel very actiony to me. The enemies felt like they just chased me around all of the time and I was getting hit even though the arc of their weapon swings clearly did not touch me. I was expecting combat in this game to have actual hit boxes that were more precise as well as enemy AI which did more than just stick to me like glue like they do in WoW. I don't know if it gets better later in the game or not. I got bored too fast to find out. Back in beta I posted on their forum begging them to go play Tera and steal their combat mechanics, because Tera in space with something that isn't a generic Korean mmo setting would be amazing. The other testers replied that Tera wasn't hardcore enough because the attacks involved animation locks.
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Apr 22, 2015 16:46
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How is it less hardcore if the game forces you to commit to your big attacks? How do their brains work?
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Apr 22, 2015 18:19
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Man, when you reach a point in your life where you're dismissing feedback because it's not "hardcore" enough, you really need to take a good hard look in the mirror and re-evaluate some poo poo.
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Apr 22, 2015 18:21
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Watching people try to give feedback on the forums was amazing. It was a fools errand.
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Apr 22, 2015 18:24
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Xavier434 posted:One thing that made me quit before the real problems with this game hit me is the combat system. I liked the telegraphs, but the action combat just didn't feel very actiony to me. The enemies felt like they just chased me around all of the time and I was getting hit even though the arc of their weapon swings clearly did not touch me. I was expecting combat in this game to have actual hit boxes that were more precise as well as enemy AI which did more than just stick to me like glue like they do in WoW. I don't know if it gets better later in the game or not. I got bored too fast to find out. People were telling me that later on the mobs swap to entirely being telegraphs with no unavoidable damage, but then the real question would be why the first mobs in the game aren't like that? Leveling in every single game is about teaching the player how to play the game, which they didn't do at all (how did you personally actually find out about the damage increase in interrupt armor? Because I'd bet money it wasn't from in game for 90% of people) and even more importantly it made the first half of the game really bad and leave a really bad first impression. Schubalts posted:How is it less hardcore if the game forces you to commit to your big attacks? How do their brains work? The best part is those same people complained that they didn't like gw2 combat, which was essentially the same thing with less epileptic light shows, because it was too "floaty." "Floaty" is what you get when your animations have no weight, and that's what animation locking does. It's not just about turning it into an actual risk/reward game rather than a dps rotation. It lends a lot of weight to how it feels to play.
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Apr 22, 2015 18:52
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Valatar posted:Back in beta I posted on their forum begging them to go play Tera and steal their combat mechanics, because Tera in space with something that isn't a generic Korean mmo setting would be amazing. The other testers replied that Tera wasn't hardcore enough because the attacks involved animation locks. TERA combat + TERA or GW2 NPC AI (they don't always stick to you) + Wildstar telegraphs would be amazing even if the combat animations did not lock the player into place quite as much as TERA's did. I also don't understand how committing to one's choices in combat in the form of animation locks is somehow less hardcore. 
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Apr 22, 2015 18:52
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for a textbook definition of floaty see elder scrolls online where attack animations weren't much more than kind of feebly waving a sword around, and characters hit by these animations had no reactionquote:I also don't understand how committing to one's choices in combat in the form of animation locks is somehow less hardcore. hardcore = high apm and carpal tunnel
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Apr 22, 2015 18:53
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