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twistedmentat posted:
Girl in the front was Boom Boom, gold guy was Elixir. Not sure about the rest
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Apr 23, 2015 01:02
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The Utopians look like Masque, Elixir, Boom Boom, Random, Box, and Karma.
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Apr 23, 2015 01:02
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The chick with the cyber-leg looks an awful lot like Karma, which might take some explaining. This whole thing with Iceman could be redeemed if they suddenly flash back to the Jean Grey Academy and Bobby's sitting there with his arm around a dude. "What? I've been dating Steve for years. It's not like I've been on-panel for you to notice." ("But weren't you going to marry Opal?" ("She liked to watch.")
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Apr 23, 2015 01:04
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TwoPair posted:Seriously, if they just did a story of current Iceman coming out, that would be fine, and I guess fit in with established character, and you could spin all his prior relationships failing as having been the result of self-sabotage without it being too much of a retcon. Making it Young Bobby just makes things confusing for everybody. ImpAtom posted:People have absolutely suspected Iceman for a while.     (I mean, I kid, but you can absolutely bet that Bendis will be referencing this exact, specific scene at some point.)
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Apr 23, 2015 01:19
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Iceman is my favorite character and I already have enough people (including my parents at one point) question if I'm gay and now this is going to bring that loving can of worms up again, so THANKS, Bendis. My take on it is: 1)It's stupid and ignores 50 years of story but 2)Everything in comics is stupid and ignores history, and honestly, if it makes one kid, somewhere, feel less like killing himself, then it's a good change.
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Apr 23, 2015 02:00
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No, it's still a dumb change even then. Also, the whole conversation was handled and written really poorly. Jean invades his mind and reveals a secret even he obviously wasn't ready to face, and then makes fun of him the next minute. Like, haha, hey, I just shat all over your privacy and any bond of trust we might've had, in what would be a friendship-shattering move for anyone in the real world. But hey, it's cool, it was for your own good, Bobby! Oh, and by the way, bisexual people don't exist, and being gay is a choice. Teen Jean is a bitch, this retcon is stupid, and Bendis is a hack.
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Apr 23, 2015 02:35
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TwoPair posted:Also even though the government is always bad in X-Men stories, Bendis has done some weird thing where the character I sympathize the most with of anyone is Maria Hill because she's right, they are just responsible for so much bullshit. A summation of my very own thoughts: 
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Apr 23, 2015 02:40
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Dacap posted:Girl in the front was Boom Boom, gold guy was Elixir. Not sure about the rest Boom Boom was who I thought the lead girl was, and wow, yea, that's probably Karma with the robot leg.
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Apr 23, 2015 02:51
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Darke GBF posted:Oh, and by the way, bisexual people don't exist, and being gay is a choice.
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Apr 23, 2015 02:52
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BrianWilly posted:I don't think they suggest this at all.  Just put away your gay, folks.
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Apr 23, 2015 03:05
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Darke GBF posted:
You realize this is a young character speculating and not the author's thoughts, right? Going by all of the interviews, it looks pretty clear that older Iceman will be shown to be gay as well.
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Apr 23, 2015 03:08
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Codependent Poster posted:You realize this is a young character speculating and not the author's thoughts, right? This is Jean forcefully outing him by reading his mind, his mind that apparently thinks gay thoughts all the time so much so that Jean noticed.
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Apr 23, 2015 03:10
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She doesn't actually out him.
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Apr 23, 2015 03:12
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Two Tone Shoes posted:This is Jean forcefully outing him by reading his mind, his mind that apparently thinks gay thoughts all the time so much so that Jean noticed. What has that got to do with what I said? And yes, teen Jean is constantly stirring poo poo up by reading minds and people keep calling her out on it. People are tired of that poo poo.
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Apr 23, 2015 03:14
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Darke GBF posted:Just put away your gay, folks. (Which is also kind of a lovely correlation to make -- it's not as if being bad at romance means that you're not straight -- but either way it's not saying that being gay or straight is a choice.) BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 03:16
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Codependent Poster posted:You realize this is a young character speculating and not the author's thoughts, right? That's one way to read it, but not how I interpreted it.
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Apr 23, 2015 03:38
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Two Tone Shoes posted:This is Jean forcefully outing him by reading his mind, his mind that apparently thinks gay thoughts all the time so much so that Jean noticed. Or, you know, she's picking up on the fact that his heteronormative objectification of women is forced and insincere. Playing straight is hard and unnatural and I assume a mind reader could notice.
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Apr 23, 2015 03:39
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Codependent Poster posted:What has that got to do with what I said? You said it's speculation but it's not. Jean knows his urges. He acknowledges it and they pretty decisively assert his being gay as fact. I don't see how you can speculate on "I read your mind and this is what's there." Naked Lincoln posted:Or, you know, she's picking up on the fact that his heteronormative objectification of women is forced and insincere. Playing straight is hard and unnatural and I assume a mind reader could notice. Maybe if not for her instantly shooting down his thought that he might be bi. They go through more motions than "You're forcing yourself to pretend to be a macho man, Bobby." Though the awkward pretend straight thing is pretty new for even O5 Bobby and obviously never happened with present Bobby. BrianWilly posted:I don't even think means what you're thinking it means. All he's saying is that older Iceman is repressing himself or hiding in the closet. Not that older Iceman literally managed to force himself into being attracted to women or something. Jean even points out here that adult Bobby's relationships with women fail...in other words, Bendis is saying that older Iceman is forcing himself to go through the motions of being straight, but that it doesn't work due to his actual sexuality and his romances with women therefore end up as unspectacular trainwrecks. urgh This is the worst freaking concept about gay people. Having failed relationships with the opposite sex is not a flag for being gay. Just like if a gay guy has multiple failed relationships with men it doesn't even slightly imply that he's straight. None of Bobby's relationships failed for romantic or sexual attraction reasons. 90% of all major Marvel characters have gone through several, sometimes dozens, of failed relationships. Is Tony Stark forcing himself to sleep with all these women the way Bobby has? It's bad writing. If you're happy with it, cool, we do need more gay characters. We just shouldn't be using Jean's really stupid, really awful self as the way to sell it. She says a lot of lovely things because she's a lovely person. This is the same ol Jean, doing some unwanted mind reading and then saying a lot of dumb stuff as a follow up. It's a big ol mess and you can chalk it up to Bendis going for spur of the moment changes without any buildup. I guess he's from the school of "say, don't show" narratives. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 03:46
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Two Tone Shoes posted:You said it's speculation but it's not. Jean knows his urges. He acknowledges it and they pretty decisively assert his being gay as fact. I don't see how you can speculate on "I read your mind and this is what's there." We're talking about older Iceman, not younger Iceman.
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Apr 23, 2015 03:51
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Codependent Poster posted:We're talking about older Iceman, not younger Iceman. My bad, then, mixed it up in the conversation. I thought you were talking about the second part of that panel with the whole "maybe I'm bi" and Jean's emphatic "nope, you're totes gay." part, which was also speculation on his part. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 03:52
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Naked Lincoln posted:Or, you know, she's picking up on the fact that his heteronormative objectification of women is forced and insincere. Playing straight is hard and unnatural and I assume a mind reader could notice. Literally the only bit of characterization she has is she likes to read peoples minds despite them not wanting her too. So no that isn't happening.
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Apr 23, 2015 03:58
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Two Tone Shoes posted:My bad, then, mixed it up in the conversation. I thought you were talking about the second part of that panel with the whole "maybe I'm bi" and Jean's emphatic "nope, you're totes gay." part, which was also speculation on his part. Nah. The conversation was about older Iceman and younger one saying that maybe he put it away. That's the speculative part.
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Apr 23, 2015 04:01
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CharlestheHammer posted:Literally the only bit of characterization she has is she likes to read peoples minds despite them not wanting her too. Jean's clearly an rear end in a top hat, but my point was that Bobby doesn't necessarily have to be thinking gay thoughts 24/7 for Jean's invasive mind reading to get that he's gay. Performing heterosexuality is pretty a self-conscious process.
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Apr 23, 2015 04:10
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CharlestheHammer posted:Literally the only bit of characterization she has is she likes to read peoples minds despite them not wanting her too. I'm so loving bummed that this is the entirety of Teen Jean's personality. 
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Apr 23, 2015 04:10
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Bendis' history writing established female characters is not good.
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Apr 23, 2015 04:12
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I probably read the issue wrong. I thought this whole thing about the book was about not being dragged into believing you had to be something because society (which of course the time paradox is the metaphor for) says you have to. So Bobby doesn't have to date girls because his future Bobby does and Angel doesn't have to be Evil X-Factor Angel, Tyke-Clops and Jean don't have to get together etc etc. Which, taken out of context are very True And Correct things to say. Now, sure it's a retcon and all that and it was executed clumsily but in principle I am all for these things. There's also a possibility that they're not from this dimension or some bullshit like that which is probably going to be the answer when Bendis leaves.
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Apr 23, 2015 04:52
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LordPants posted:I probably read the issue wrong. Wouldn't make much sense. When 05 Scott died Present Scott faded away. Not that Bendis would raise an eyebrow for story structure and history that he or anyone else established.
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Apr 23, 2015 05:12
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Dacap posted:Girl in the front was Boom Boom, gold guy was Elixir. Not sure about the rest On that note, Charles Soule killed Elixir in one of the Death of Wolverine tie-ins, so put another tally on the "Bendis doesn't give a poo poo about things he personally didn't write" board.
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Apr 23, 2015 05:37
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TwoPair posted:On that note, Charles Soule killed Elixir in one of the Death of Wolverine tie-ins, so put another tally on the "Bendis doesn't give a poo poo about things he personally didn't write" board. It's Elixer. He got better.
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Apr 23, 2015 05:41
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Wouldn't make much sense. When 05 Scott died Present Scott faded away. Not that Bendis would raise an eyebrow for story structure and history that he or anyone else established. Huh I straight up forgot about that I remember now. Guess that's not the case then either. 
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Apr 23, 2015 05:42
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That bobby being gay part of the issue was just about the stupidest thing I've ever read in comics. You saved the galaxy now let me steal your privacy and force you to talk to me about poo poo! Just really, what the flying gently caress. Jean is such an awful character and the series was way better when she was just dead. Kill her off when the planets collide or whatever. Ramadu fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 06:28
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It really isn't only that Bobby had relationships with women. He loved women, and pined for years for them. I guess that is the problem I have with them shutting down bi.
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Apr 23, 2015 06:55
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Rick posted:It really isn't only that Bobby had relationships with women. He loved women, and pined for years for them. I guess that is the problem I have with them shutting down bi. Gay guys do that too.
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Apr 23, 2015 07:10
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It's all a social construction anyway.
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Apr 23, 2015 07:58
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I've always thought the O5(original and time-traveled) were a boring group with an uninteresting-to-me dynamic. Vastly preferring the stories with the same characters outside of that context. Anything that shakes it up makes me cautiously optimistic. Too bad the center of the universe known as Jean is apparently immune to development, death or any real form of change. Except when she's actually a space bird.
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Apr 23, 2015 08:11
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Cyclops is the only cool one cause he went and became a space pirate with his dad and had cool adventures. Everyone else was pretty awful.
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Apr 23, 2015 09:12
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Waterhaul posted:Gay guys do that too. Yeah, hi. People can convince themselves of a lot of poo poo for one reason or another. The drive to just try even harder to be "normal" or fit in or just loving hide is a real powerful motivator. And even then, I'm pretty goddamn gay and there's still one woman on the planet I would drop everything for. I can't even begin to explain it.
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Apr 23, 2015 09:30
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Cabbit posted:And even then, I'm pretty goddamn gay and there's still one woman on the planet I would drop everything for. I can't even begin to explain it. In my experience that's pretty common.
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Apr 23, 2015 09:37
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WTwoPair posted:On that note, Charles Soule killed Elixir in one of the Death of Wolverine tie-ins, so put another tally on the "Bendis doesn't give a poo poo about things he personally didn't write" board. Wasn't Boom Boom in the recent X-Force book as well? I didn't read it but I don't imagine it would make much sense that she was just hiding out on Utopia this whole time, but maybe someone familiar with that book can verify.
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Apr 23, 2015 12:01
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And Karma was in the Jean Grey School taking care of that kid with the exploded out face as per New Mutants, but don't let any of that get in the way of Bendis "I throw darts at random to make plots". I mean, even I don't know about Elixir dying on some random tie-in and wouldn't blame Bendis for not knowing that, but he could have done a bit of homework on some of the other characters shown instead of picking them at random and them hamfisting everything into his way as per usual. Boom Boom and Karma aren't Random or Masque. They were established characters in recent comics that weren't just some random mini-series or event tie-ins. I can only imagine that in five years or so everyone and not just some readers will look back and realize how much of a hack this guy is. Saoshyant fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 12:07
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