|
Guys. I taught Dead of Winter at my FLGS last night. Pretty well, apparently. They had fun and ordered a copy. I feel good that my FLGS is making money, but I feel bad that I'm promoting a subpar game. MY EMOTIONS
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 14:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 14:18 |
|
|
ETB posted:Guys. Your penance is to teach them Cuba Libre.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 14:54
|
|
|
ETB posted:Guys. Then you didn't teach it well.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 15:05
|
|
|
DoW is a fine experience generator, but a terrible game. Some people just don't care for "balance" and "meaningful choices" if they can have awesome narratives.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 15:14
|
|
|
ETB posted:Guys. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 15:26
|
|
|
Finally picked up Dungeon Petz but at first glance I thought it looked too heavy for my group (still nudging them towards medium-weight games). The rulebook is just really long for entertainment/Vlaada value though. I think if I start off explaining pets and their needs, following up with the the turn in order should make sense in context. Any other advice for teaching this to newer gamers? They've played Lords of Waterdeep so they have a handle on worker placement.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 15:28
|
|
|
BonHair posted:DoW is a fine experience generator, but a terrible game. Some people just don't care for "balance" and "meaningful choices" if they can have awesome narratives. Except that it generates lukewarm to horrible experiences and can't decide if it wants to be taken seriously, seriously with gallows humor, or just outright absurdly. At least with something like Arabian Nights I know what I'm getting into from the get-go.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 15:40
|
|
|
Looking for recommendations on a 1 vs many type of game. Imperial Assault would be an example but looking for lighter and doesn't have to be a Descent like game. Any suggestions?
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 15:45
|
|
|
Diosamblet posted:Any other advice for teaching this to newer gamers? Explain clearly when you can score points and using the platform.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 15:45
|
|
|
Big McHuge posted:Except that it generates lukewarm to horrible experiences and can't decide if it wants to be taken seriously, seriously with gallows humor, or just outright absurdly. We use it as some kind of horrible zombie absurdity generator. We always try to give the dog a gun and as many skill books as we can stack on him, and we've decided that the Student's character ability to copy everybody else's abilities is the work of his powerful Stand The game is excruciating unless you create your own fun like that, which is pretty damning. My group likes it though, so it hits the table like twice a month or so.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 15:48
|
|
|
Mr.Trifecta posted:Looking for recommendations on a 1 vs many type of game. Imperial Assault would be an example but looking for lighter and doesn't have to be a Descent like game. Any suggestions? Tragedy Looper Also, Cuba Libre. It might not seem that way, so you'll just have to preorder a copy and find out! fozzy fosbourne fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Apr 23, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 15:49
|
|
|
Big McHuge posted:Except that it generates lukewarm to horrible experiences and can't decide if it wants to be taken seriously, seriously with gallows humor, or just outright absurdly. It's a zombie game, if you don't know what sort of quality to expect from the get-go I don't know what to say.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 15:50
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:It's a zombie game, if you don't know what sort of quality to expect from the get-go I don't know what to say. 'Finally a good zombie game!' I kid you not. We should learn at some point.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 15:53
|
|
|
sonatinas posted:Explain clearly when you can score points and using the platform. This, particularly the difference between selling a pet for 3x points and 2x points, and also emphasize that there's no connection between a pet's needs on its wheel and the symbol on the card, the only thing that matters is the color of the card.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 15:55
|
|
|
The fact that you can give the dog a gun seems like a plus to me. Yes, Old Fido can shake, jump through a hoop, and shoot to kill. Let's see the International Kennel Association laugh at me now!
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 15:56
|
|
|
fozzy fosbourne posted:Tragedy Looper Oh hey I literally just wrote a page on Tragedy Looper for my blog whatsit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 15:58
|
|
|
Tekopo posted:Reaction of the thread (including me) when Dead of Winter was announced: Gonna keep harping on the only good zombie game is the game that the zombies are more an afterthought and the real game is voting other people out to be eaten, Mall/City of Horror.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 15:59
|
|
|
Mr.Trifecta posted:Looking for recommendations on a 1 vs many type of game. Imperial Assault would be an example but looking for lighter and doesn't have to be a Descent like game. Any suggestions? Tragedy Looper is a 1 vs. Many deduction game that's pretty fun once people figure out how to use the reference tables. The Mastermind manipulates characters and variables on an abstract board representing a Japanese city, trying to achieve specific states that cause the Protagonists to "lose". The protagonists have a big-rear end reference table of potential secret "roles" that characters might have, the powers those roles possess, and which roles are present in which plots and sub-plots. Using that information, the Protagonists have a limited number of Groundhog Day-style time loops in which the board must either not reach a "Protagonists lose" state, or by the end of which the Protagonists must be able to correctly guess the plot, sub-plot(s), and the identities of all secret roles, in order to win. The time loops consist of the Protagonists and Mastermind each manipulating characters and areas in a kind of weird tug of war, especially after the first loop or two when some roles have been figured out. Typically, you discover a character's role by observing that an effect matching that role's power occurs in areas where that character is present. Some roles act automatically, which lets either the Protagonists or the Mastermind force them to act- for example, my group has a habit of using the "Serial Killer", if one is present on the board, to try and experimentally kill unknown characters in an attempt to either disrupt the plot or uncover the "Friend", who uniquely gets revealed at the end of a loop if they died.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 15:59
|
|
|
BonHair posted:DoW is a fine experience generator, but a terrible game. Some people just don't care for "balance" and "meaningful choices" if they can have awesome narratives. It's clearly true that some people feel this way, but those people are misguided. Balance and meaningful choices are key ways in which the game mechanics can contribute to a good narrative. Balance allows for dramatic tension where you don't know who's going to win. Meaningful choices force you to think about them and engage with the plot. If these people just want a great narrative, they should go watch a movie together. Professional movie producers will give you a far better narrative with far better visual stimulation than a deck of cards. If they want a semidecent narrative and they want to have some control over it, and rules that force them to pay attention to what's going on, they should play an RPG (probably a rules-light freeform affair). So why would they choose a board game as their narrative vehicle? Well for one thing, people just don't know about the existence of good light RPGs. For another, maybe they demand agency plus a tiny bit of visual stimulation, and there's a dearth of light RPGs that incorporate visual art (unless you count, say, Gloom or the DnD boardgames). Otherwise it's because good mechanics can enhance the narrative by providing real win-or-lose stakes and a real challenge. I'm a big believer in that. But bad mechanics don't do that, they just put a bunch of fiddly busywork in between you and some B-movie plot. And the worst part is that because the "experience generator" crowd currently has such low standards, there's not as much incentive for game designers to make experience generators that actually are worth playing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 16:04
|
|
|
silvergoose posted:Gonna keep harping on the only good zombie game is the game that the zombies are more an afterthought and the real game is voting other people out to be eaten, Mall/City of Horror. Bloodbowl with an Undead team was a good zombie game, but an even better mummy game E: also, I blame Dead of Winter partially on BSG. BSG's theme is bad now, and it's expansions really are a mess. But a game with a design of at least the level of BSG is really what people should be trying first. FFG needs to retheme that thing. If they give BSG the imp assault makeover I'd play it again with whatever garbage theme they put on it. I'm interested in Dark Moon which is coming out this year and is a revised BSG Express. fozzy fosbourne fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Apr 23, 2015 |
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 16:04
|
|
|
You want an experience generator? You want heavy theme expressed vividly in mechanics? You want a story of man's inhumanity to man against a backdrop of growing horror and dread? http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3564278&pagenumber=1
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 16:07
|
|
|
StashAugustine posted:You want an experience generator? The OP apparently thinks Zombicide counts as a wargame. Discredited.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 16:13
|
|
|
bobvonunheil posted:The OP apparently thinks Zombicide counts as a wargame. Discredited.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 16:15
|
|
|
Tekopo posted:It was you wasn't it. You were waiting until this moment to spring the trap. I won't even spring the 5 bucks I need to fix the link in my avatar, you think I bought a joke one for someone else?
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 16:17
|
|
|
McNerd posted:It's clearly true that some people feel this way, but those people are misguided. Balance and meaningful choices are key ways in which the game mechanics can contribute to a good narrative. Balance allows for dramatic tension where you don't know who's going to win. Meaningful choices force you to think about them and engage with the plot. Yes, I agree with all of these points basically. Except that some people are too lazy to set up a decent RPG, and would just like to open a box and get the same experience, without anyone having to do any serious preparation. And they would like to be in control, but they don't care too much whether their choices have meaningful and predictable outcomes. They just want to make a "choice" and have it result in something that they can construe into a narrative. Like a railroaded RPG essentially, except the railroad is randomly laid out instead of predetermined. It comes down to players not wanting to think too hard and just make thematic decisions, which good mechanics and meaningful choices actually do get in the way of. I am not saying these people should not be flogged publicly, but they exist, and DoW is their kind of thing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 16:21
|
|
|
silvergoose posted:Gonna keep harping on the only good zombie game is the game that the zombies are more an afterthought and the real game is voting other people out to be eaten, Mall/City of Horror. The only game I've played that rivals Diplomacy at straining friendships. (It's one of my favorites, despite how little I get to play it.) fozzy fosbourne posted:Bloodbowl with an Undead team was a good zombie game, but an even better mummy game Now there's a game that just went so hard on the "gently caress you"-style post-decision randomness that I actually started liking it again. It's so explicitly telling you that every time you touch a die you're basically loving up that it almost kind of works. Maybe. I haven't actually played it in a very long time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 16:21
|
|
|
This sounds like an experience generator:quote:In December 1956, paroled rebel Fidel Castro returned to Cuba to launch his revolution with virtually no political base and—after a disastrous initial encounter with government forces—a total of just 12 men. Two years later, through masterful propaganda and factional maneuver, Castro, his brother Raúl, and iconic revolutionary Che Guevara had united disparate guerrillas and exploited Cubans’ deep opposition to their dictator Fulgencio Batista y Zaldívar. Castro’s takeover of the country became a model for Leftist insurgency. https://www.gmtgames.com/c-36-coin-series.aspx * no zombies but maybe you could sneak some in somehow?
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 16:27
|
|
|
BonHair posted:Yes, I agree with all of these points basically. Except that some people are too lazy to set up a decent RPG, and would just like to open a box and get the same experience, without anyone having to do any serious preparation. And they would like to be in control, but they don't care too much whether their choices have meaningful and predictable outcomes. They just want to make a "choice" and have it result in something that they can construe into a narrative. Like a railroaded RPG essentially, except the railroad is randomly laid out instead of predetermined. It comes down to players not wanting to think too hard and just make thematic decisions, which good mechanics and meaningful choices actually do get in the way of. Well, RPGwise I'm thinking about something like Fiasco, or even sillier like Wushu or Everyone Is John. A lot of games coming out these days that you can just bullshit your way through without a GM or prep or brains.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 16:29
|
|
|
I think a lot of people like "experience generators" and other lovely games BECAUSE they don't have many meaningful choices. It's like watching a lovely action movie - they like to turn their brains off and just have a thing happen at them. They mostly just use the game as a catalyst for interacting with friends, and don't want the game to be anything more than that. To them it's barely even a 'game' - they don't care that much about the game itself, they just want something that can do while chatting with friends, that will create a "story" for them and their friends without having to put forth a ton of effort or thought towards it. To a lot of people, having challenging choices, complex strategy, etc can actually be a NEGATIVE aspect of the game.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 16:36
|
|
|
McNerd posted:Well, RPGwise I'm thinking about something like Fiasco, or even sillier like Wushu or Everyone Is John. A lot of games coming out these days that you can just bullshit your way through without a GM or prep or brains. But, unlike those RPGs, DoW requires close to no creativity to play, and that counts for something too. You don't even need to invent you options, they are laid out in front of you, you just have to pick one and justify it with your knowledge of stupid tropes. Again, I'm just saying it fills a niche, not that it should be recommended to anyone.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 16:38
|
|
|
Yep. They are structured activities, not contests or challenges, and so they are pretty much apples to oranges. "board gaming" includes a ton of poo poo that has little in common other than there are rules
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 16:39
|
|
|
McNerd posted:It's clearly true that some people feel this way, but those people are misguided. Balance and meaningful choices are key ways in which the game mechanics can contribute to a good narrative. Balance allows for dramatic tension where you don't know who's going to win. Meaningful choices force you to think about them and engage with the plot. Yo, normal people don't overthink things this much and just experience a thing we call, "fun". Hth.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 16:41
|
|
|
Bottom Liner posted:Yo, normal people don't overthink things this much and just experience a thing we call, "fun". Hth. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 16:42
|
|
|
Normal people watch reality television and poo poo. Seriously, normal people don't play Dead of Winter either
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 16:52
|
|
|
Bottom Liner posted:Yo, normal people don't overthink things this much and just experience a thing we call, "fun". Hth. This is the wrong thread to be bringing up what normal people do. We're discussing board games on Something Awful. I don't think we're in the realm of normal anymore.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 16:56
|
|
|
"I Like It!" The game of liking your friends' baby pictures on social media!
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 16:59
|
|
|
My definition of normal people are people that uncritically watch every single type of media, like if it was an episode of Charlie Brooker's Black Mirror.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 16:59
|
|
|
OmegaGoo posted:This is the wrong thread to be bringing up what normal people do. We're discussing board games on Something Awful. I don't think we're in the realm of normal anymore. Talk about understatement. We are on an internet forum, we paid money to post in, discussing the nuances of how we move wood or plastic across cardboard and why some cardboard is better than others.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 17:00
|
|
|
FISHMANPET posted:Someone a few pages ago asked for a game that's good for 2 and also more players. And it was discussed otherwise, but Viticulture I feel like I'm going to end up getting this at some point, but I watched the Watch it Played video and it seemed kinda dull to me. What makes the game exciting and awesome?
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 17:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 14:18 |
|
|
e:wrong thread
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2015 17:22
|
|