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also lol at the free skyrim weekend timed to go live with this mess
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Apr 23, 2015 20:19
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So does the Workshop for Skyrim actually have good mod management now? Last time I checked it still didn't properly handle basic stuff like multi-mod load order properly and that's why I was just doing everything through Mod Organizer/BOSS anyway.
Roadie fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 20:20
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It looks like the near-future world is a world wherein you have a choice between paying for auto-installing mods or doing work (negligible if you're computer-savvy, onerous if you're not) to manually install them for free.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:22
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I think it would have been better received with a bigger cut to the modder, over 50% at least. People would still rail against it and even those who didn't would probably pirate a lot, but at least you'd most likely see some defenders and you could feel good about using your money to support the content creators if you wanted. At 25% though, not so much.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:23
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Looking forward to, "Immersive Micro-transactions" which adds unique horses, NPCs, dungeons, and even quests that just bring up a prompt to "Buy from the Steam Workshop Today!" when you try to interact with them.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:28
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New Concept Hole posted:Looking forward to, "Immersive Micro-transactions" which adds unique horses, NPCs, dungeons, and even quests that just bring up a prompt to "Buy from the Steam Workshop Today!" when you try to interact with them. Didn't the original Dragons Age already do that?
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Apr 23, 2015 20:30
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Danaru posted:Didn't the original Dragons Age already do that? It literally did. Thank you for saving me from those bandits, I have an old family castle with sweet loot! Would you like the location (100 funbux)?
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Apr 23, 2015 20:32
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Roadie posted:So does the Workshop for Skyrim actually have good mod management now? Last time I checked it still didn't properly handle basic stuff like multi-mod load order properly and that's why I was just doing everything through Mod Organizer/BOSS anyway. No, the workshop has not gotten any quality of life improvements at all. It's still big and obtuse, it's still clunky and slow, and it still doesn't give a prompt when a mod updates any of ask if you want the update, it still just forces the update on you without telling you, potentially breaking your leaning tower of tits.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:33
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I see where they're coming from with this. Every popular game suddenly having an around-the-clock dev team of loving THOUSANDS sounds like a dream come true, but consumers are going to be incredibly resistant to paying for stuff that used to be free. A 25% cut isn't going to be enough for someone to quit their day job with the sort of sales I'd expect to see. People might, MIGHT pay for mods on the scale of Nehrim and Long War, but uh. Not so much for swords or fishing mods, I expect.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:35
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Roadie posted:So does the Workshop for Skyrim actually have good mod management now? Last time I checked it still didn't properly handle basic stuff like multi-mod load order properly and that's why I was just doing everything through BOSS anyway. The only real advantage of the workshop is that it's automated: you click a button, steam downloads and installs it for you and you're done. Which is neat for most games. The problem off course is that automating the installing of mods doesn't work with a game like Skyrim (at least not if you want to properly working game) since you need to make sure your mods play nice with eachother, check dependencies & loadorder, create compatibility patches, etc.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:35
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Hobo Siege posted:I see where they're coming from with this. Every popular game suddenly having an around-the-clock dev team of loving THOUSANDS sounds like a dream come true, but consumers are going to be incredibly resistant to paying for stuff that used to be free. A 25% cut isn't going to be enough for someone to quit their day job with the sort of sales I'd expect to see. There will probably be a pretty strong market for cheat mods.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:36
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Eric the Mauve posted:There will probably be a pretty strong market for cheat mods. Those are so easy to make that there will be free options even in the workshop. The console also exists and is really easy to use.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:41
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You know, there's a couple dozen mods (mostly on the Nexus, some on the Workshop) that I've been putting off downloading, and dozens more that I've been putting off updating, just so I don't have to deal with the hassle. I think today is a good day to do all of that before their creators pull them down so they can make a buck.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:41
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Yeah I don't blame the businesses for cashing in when they see a river of free money flowing past. But drat if I'm going to pay for any of this unless it's an optional donation, and if that means TES is dead then fine  .
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Apr 23, 2015 20:42
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Eric the Mauve posted:There will probably be a pretty strong market for cheat mods. You're probably right. Cheaters do tend to have very poor impulse control. Nevermind that I could mod in a godly armor set with 10 minutes of work using my 3 minutes of experience with the Skyrim construction set.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:44
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Raygereio posted:Nah. The workshop is still kinda poo poo. The one thing that has been fixed is the 100mb restriction. But all of the other problems (auto-updating, impossible to include .esm files, documentation & optional plugins, etc) are still there. I think you can include .esm files on Steam now. Wyrmstooth got an update on Steam and it uses Wyrmstooth.esm. A 25% cut is garbage, but I could see paying 99 cents for some of the must-have mods.Things are going to be really strange when TES 6 and Fallout 4 roll around. Really good mods take a long time to come together and compatibility is a bitch, and compatibility is going to be a huge source of apprehension for buying mods. Hopefully people will be level headed and not charge for a new mod until it's in a reasonably finished state and its interaction with other mods is understood. We already know what to look for in mods like that, it's just a matter of deciding when to pay for them. Small mods like weapons and armor would be easier in this regard, but who wants to pay for stuff like that?
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Apr 23, 2015 20:46
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Alasyre posted:I think you can include .esm files on Steam now. Wyrmstooth got an update on Steam and it uses Wyrmstooth.esm. Hahahahaha Also, in the future monetized Workshop mods are going to come with an exclusivity agreement forbidding the modder from offering his work free elsewhere, with corresponding aggressive efforts at shutting down mod "piracy". This is all about Valve and Bethesda/other publishers getting rich off other people's work.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:48
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So, in addition to Valve/Bethesda taking a 75% cut, there's also this:
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Apr 23, 2015 20:49
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Hobo Siege posted:You're probably right. Cheaters do tend to have very poor impulse control. I'm reminded of the time I spent two hours making fortify restoration potions/fortify alchemy gear in order to turn a daedric axe into bullshit levels of Legendary. I could have just cheated them in, but it felt more real that way.  I miss how Morrowind practically encouraged you to break the game in the most ridiculous ways.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:50
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Pakled posted:So, in addition to Valve/Bethesda taking a 75% cut, there's also this: I don't see anything objectionable or shady about that specific thing, honestly. Valve and Bethesda aren't in this to make $300 and bank fees really are a thing.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:50
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I applaud the limit before modders get paid, if only because it'll discourage modders from actually doing this poo poo. It's really quite appalling, this whole thing. And I say this as someone who creates mods in her spare time. I like money sure, but I don't believe it's right for me to ask people to pay for my mods of a video game, especially Skyrim. If I did something really impressive, sure! I might put a donation button or something up, but that's about it.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:56
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Cat Army 
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Valve should start allowing nude and sex mods on the workshop, that's where the real cash is.
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Apr 23, 2015 21:08
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Kainser posted:Valve should start allowing nude and sex mods on the workshop, that's where the real cash is. $hlongs of $kyrim support enabled! Just reading the vitriol on the Wet and Cold nexus page is amazing. This is going to be good (bad).
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Apr 23, 2015 21:13
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The need to have a tumblr pronoun mod where you just otherkin shout at people for calling you the wrong pronoun and do not respect that you are toothpastekin.
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Apr 23, 2015 21:17
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anyone make a horse armor joke yet???
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Apr 23, 2015 21:19
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Wow. This would be funny if it wasn't so utterly utterly heartbreaking. I have thousands of hours in Skyrim, not even 50 of those are from my vanilla playthrough, same with the earlier TES games and it#s by far my favorite set of games. Hope this won't be as devastating for modding as i think it will be.
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Apr 23, 2015 21:30
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VarXX posted:I think it's really scummy that Valve and Publishers are making 75% of the profit from other peoples works and putting a "Pay What You Want" button that only goes up and uses preset options instead of offering a Donation button. In my mind I don't think this is that scummy. For a majority of mods, modders are using more or less just re-purposing assets that were already made by the developers themselves. So the developers should certainly getting something from work that is partly theirs. But yeah the real issue with the split is the fact that Valve is presumably taking a large as hell portion of the profit. Also, I'm pretty sure the minimum price you can set can be 0 it's just none of the mods as part of this service are actually using it.
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Apr 23, 2015 21:31
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Dongattack posted:Wow. This would be funny if it wasn't so utterly utterly heartbreaking. Consumption of mods will hit a relative flatline while development accelerates for... Some length of time. I expect (and pray) that this will end up a failed experiment. Gaming is an expensive hobby as is and people only have so much expendable income.
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Apr 23, 2015 21:42
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OneDeadman posted:In my mind I don't think this is that scummy. For a majority of mods, modders are using more or less just re-purposing assets that were already made by the developers themselves. So the developers should certainly getting something from work that is partly theirs. But yeah the real issue with the split is the fact that Valve is presumably taking a large as hell portion of the profit. Valve did not set the rate, bethesda did.
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Apr 23, 2015 21:43
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Valve posted:Q. What happens if a mod I bought breaks? 
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Apr 23, 2015 21:52
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I can see why paying for some mods would make sense. Some of them can be pretty big and it's obvious there's a lot of work behind it and with potential payment their quality can only get better. So of course the first mod I see on the workshop is a 20€ worth weapon-pack, gently caress that poo poo. I see what Valve/Bethesda is trying to do, which is giving us the option to decide what is worth paying for and what isn't, thanks to the free market. The best case is that in a couple of months these small 2€ mods will disappear because nobody will buy them thanks to the free competition and only the mods that is worht paying for will stay. That is the best case, and even that will take time. Then there will be edge cases where somebody in the infinite wisdom will ask money for their major overhaul mod, hopefully a free alternative will appear the neuter things out, but it might even just set a new standard and the only way you'll be able to improve the gameplay is to dish out 5€ at least... ENJOY THE FREE MARKET MOTHERFUCKERS
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Apr 23, 2015 21:57
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Ah god this is a shitshow. Not only is the workshop terrible for actually using to get mods for skyrim its actually terrible to use to get money for making mods. Almost none of what I make can go on the workshop since you can only upload esm, esp, or bsa files. You can't directly link an SKSE requirement (or specify SKSE as a target for part of your sales). And you can't add a price to an existing mod. Also I'd love to add a 'Pay what you want'' button to my mods but you can't set 0 as an option. Then they only pay you if your mod sales total at least $400 so your share is at least $100. And that's if you don't specify another modder or one of their approved groups too get a cut of your profit. You also can't change the portion of the cut that each person gets. A new person joins your team? Too bad they get nothing. Bethesda and Valve really hosed this up. Especially since mods have done so much for the sales of beth games and they do almost nothing to support them.
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Apr 23, 2015 22:11
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OneDeadman posted:So the developers should certainly getting something from work that is partly theirs.
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Apr 23, 2015 22:16
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Bholder posted:I can see why paying for some mods would make sense. Some of them can be pretty big and it's obvious there's a lot of work behind it and with potential payment their quality can only get better. Like yeah, I get it. If the guy who made Wrymtooth wanted to charge $5. Sure. Helgen Reborn for $2.50? Sure. Adding weather systems in the game for $5? Ok. I'm not stoked about it, but I can respect where they are coming from, and don't mind giving a bit of a donation. They did put a bunch of work into the mod, and while I was used to getting it for free in the past, I can understand how people need money to live. But when the Unofficial Patches become $5 each ( because guess what Arthmoor is the main pusher of this apparently ), or something like When Dragons/Vampires Attack become $2.50, I am suddenly far less ok with it. Mods that fix up the game's core issues ( outside of revamping the combat or something, if you view that as a core issue that does take work to fix ) becoming charge to use directly or indirectly hurt the games experience at it's core.
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Apr 23, 2015 22:19
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I wonder how it will play out if someone takes a paid mod that with no custom content and makes a few changes to it and then reposts it as their own. Surely there are going to be fights about theft and intellectual property (more so than now, but this time with cold hard cash!) This change makes me sad for the potential Fallout 4 announcement this year. Hopefully the awful modding community will direct its grease-stained ire in the right direction to quell this from taking off.
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Apr 23, 2015 22:21
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Rookersh posted:But when the Unofficial Patches become $5 each ( because guess what Arthmoor is the main pusher of this apparently ) why am I not surprised 
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Apr 23, 2015 22:21
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Oh I just noticed there's a "pay what you want option"... but you can't set it to free. I think it is a feature most people want so Valve should add it in sooner or later. If they change it and other modsites won't change their policies that much (at most allow modmakers to use Patreon or Kickstarter), there's really nothing to be afraid about.
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Apr 23, 2015 22:22
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I wonder why there are 80+ new posts in the Skyrim mod thread...  The only remotely positive thing about this situation is it probably means future Bethesda games will continue to have modding support. I was a bit concerned that the long delay between Skyrim and the next Fallout or TES game meant Bethesda was switching to a new engine from id and would drop mod support. The vanilla games range from bad to average at best, and modding makes them good to great.
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Apr 23, 2015 22:30
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The fishing mod being sold has content from another author in it and that author has not given permission to use that content. I'm sure the mod will be taken down any second now.
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Apr 23, 2015 22:39
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grrarg posted:I wonder why there are 80+ new posts in the Skyrim mod thread... The modding scene is going to be dead if this is where it's going. Doesn't really matter if it is or isn't included in the next game. Either the community will create free replacement mods for the most popular ones and exclude all but the most popular paid mods in terms of compatibility or the modding scene will slowly gravitate towards a paid mod community. Which in turn will make playing a Bethesda game about as expensive as picking up a hobby like Warhammer 40K due to all the mods you have to pick up to make it a fun and engaging experience you can come back to for years on end. Probably it'll settle between somewhere between those two possibilities. But that'll be enough to sink the ship for quite a few people. Either way the overall content on offer will suffer. Which in turn will cause the actual quality of the game itself to suffer. This was about the stupidest thing Bethesda could have done in the long term, really. Archonex fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 22:41
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