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Pathfinder Unchanged.
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Apr 16, 2015 02:42
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The "Let's Please Nobody" Edition.
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Apr 16, 2015 02:47
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Red Metal posted:wait what, did i miss something
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Apr 16, 2015 03:01
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The Crotch posted:Maybe he's referring to the rage changes? Giving temporary HP instead of con helps barbarians not suddenly die when they leave rage, but it also means much smaller fort saves. Also the monk is looking mildly better. Still not a caster, but oh well.
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Apr 16, 2015 03:45
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Ryuujin posted:Well there goes the dream of playing a non spellcasting Wild Shaper. Ryuujin posted:Seriously, I was really looking forward to the variant multiclass druid for Wild Shape on a non spellcaster until I learned how late you get it and how neutered compared to the actual Druid it was. 'sup wildshape buddy. The closest I could work out was the Feral Slayer archetype and ignore the spell list.
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Apr 16, 2015 07:42
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I'm reasonably sure, if you don't have to run PFS or whatever, you can swap out Fighter Weapon Training in exchange for just transplanting over Druid's wildshape progress, since the scaling Enhancement buffs to Strength etc. generally keep pace with attack/damage bonuses from weapon training. Or you could strip out armor training, and lock Weapon Training into Natural like some archetypes do, and end up with a pretty drat hard-hitting bear, with basically no downsides - wildshape armor is difficult, and why would you use a weapon that's not your BEAR HANDS? Probably not as balanced a swap, numbers-wise, but it's not like over-buffing the Fighter is going to break anything. Similarly you could I think swap out Favoured Enemy for Wild Shape, or most of the other "numbers go up" class abilities. Or swap out class feature choices - Discoveries, Rage Powers etc. at Wild Shape advancing levels (4, 6, 8, 10, 12 - though that seems like a lot. You could cut it down to 4 6 8 only counting Beast Shape advances? Maybe move those out a little, 4 8 12 seems a little late but could work?) Putting Wildshape on a Martial class seems like a fantastic idea - different forms and special abilities add a decent amount of utility, and it's a fun moving part for them, whereas with Druids turning into a bear is generally secondary to just casting battlefield control, or summoning in a dozen bears to fight for you. I love the general theme of turning into animals to wreck poo poo, but there's no real way to pull it off as it stands, which is a real pity because I feel most classes could play really well with wildshaping. Mutagen into an animal! So angry you turn into a goddamn lion! Beorn it up and wear a bear skin to turn into one! Hell, I was really hoping that one of the Advanced Class Guide archetypes would basically just be Hunter-but-with-Wildshape, or Ranger-but-with-Wildshape. Instead I guess we got Brown Fur Transmuter, so you can eventually turn the whole party into
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Apr 16, 2015 08:22
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There is the Taskshaper which gets to pick any 10 skills as Class Skills, gets 6+Int mod skill points a level, d8 HD, 2 good saves, and 3/4 BAB. Is proficient in a all, non exotic weapons, armor and shields, eventually can use all spell completion items as if they were on its "spell list", and eventually gets proficiency in all exotic weapons. Has a pool of points it can use to imprint a skill or feat someone else has, or gain a +1 to a d20 roll. It gains other uses later on. At 2nd and every even level they can pick another thing to use those points on. Various options include 1/3rd level as Natural Armor for level minutes, improving the earlier abilities, gaining a natural attack for uh 1 round? that gets more natural weapons as you level, or IMPRINT CLASS ABILITY which was part of some exploit I believe, somehow gaining Infinite points for their pool or something. At 3rd level they can spend one of those points to use Alter Self, improving as they level to: 5th beast shape I 7th beast shape II, elemental body I 9th beast shape III, elemental body II, plant shape I 11th beast shape IV, elemental body III, form of the dragon I, plant shape II 13th elemental body IV, form of the dragon II, giant form I, plant shape III 15th form of the dragon III, giant form II Which is kind of nice, but compare to Wild Shape or the spells the Druid gets to do it? Especially since Wild Shape has such a huge duration. Gets some more options for the pool, that require higher levels, eventually getting the chance to Baleful Polymorph, Flesh to Stone, or Polymorph Any Object. And then even more options for those points, though these new uses cost 2 points, including gain regen for a minute, or extend reach, etc. So it kind of is a shapeshifter, though it focuses more on stealing other's abilities and getting some spells with its points, etc. And it is potentially super broke because of Imprint Class Ability. For a number of reasons. Then there is the Shapeshifter in the Grimoire Viperian which still hasn't been added to the PFSRD. So much for 3rd party stuff getting put in there. I do have it, and it is one of two base classes in the book. The other is the Pyro which is all about using a Torch as a weapon. And yes it is terrible. The Shapeshifter however is a non spellcasting Shapeshifter. So yay? Too bad I can't use it because it isn't on the SRD. But how good is it? 2 good saves, 3/4 BAB, d8 HD, 4+Int skills per level, and a much more modest skill list than the Taskshaper. But really who wouldn't have a more modest skill list? Start out at 1st level with Alter Self (Su) 1/day. And that is it. Seriously at 1st level you Alter Self once and then are done. quote:Changing form (to another creature or back) is a standard action Not sure off hand if that is different from normal Alter Self. At 2nd level they get Shapechange (Su) works like Beast Shape I turning into any small or medium non-flying beast. Some changes from the spell, not sure how much is in the spell and how much isn't, has the same wording as Alter Self above. Last 30 min per level. Must be familiar with the form. Gains another use at 4th level and every 2 levels after, so every even level. Gains more form options as you level, always costs one daily use no matter which form. So by 20th level you are getting 10 uses of this feature. Gain flying forms at 5th, gain Large and Tiny at 6th as well as upping the spell equivalent to Beast Shape II, 8th adds Diminutive and Huge, and ups to Beast Shape III, and 10th level adds Small, Medium and Large Magical Beasts, Small and Medium counting as Beast Shape III while Large Magical Beast counts as Beast Shape IV. Not sure off hand how this compares to Wild Shape, get it sooner, but which has more uses? Which gets forms faster? Also Wild Shape lasts what an hour per level? So separate from the Shapechange is Monstrous Aspect (Su) at 3rd level, 1/day with no mention of eventually getting extra uses, when not currently shapeshifted and ending if it does shapeshift, it can use Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, or Longstrider. At 3rd, 7th, 11th and 17th level you can pick a Favored Form (Ex) quote:a shapeshifter can select a specific type of creature (for example, This grants a +2 enhancement to either Dex or Con, chosen when gaining the feature. +2 enhancement to Acrobatics, Climb, Escape Artist, Fly or Swim chosen when gaining the feature. And once 7th or higher a limited favored terrain, gaining +2 competence bonus on Initiative, Knowledge geography, Perception, Stealth and Survival checks. Doesn't get the Ranger pass without trace kind of thing, and the terrain is always the kind the creature lives in. Also at the levels when you gain a Favored Form you can change an old Favored Form into something new, that they are currently capable of turning into. At 4th level get Supernatural Attack (Su) can 1/day, with more uses every 3 additional levels, make one natural attack count as magic, or as one alignment. At 6th level all natural attacks are effected at the same time. At 8th level they not only choose magic or an alignment but also choose either silver or cold iron. The attacks count as both magic/alignment and silver/cold iron. This ability last for 1 minute per level. Form of the Mythical Beast (Su) comes in at 5th level. 1/day for 1 minute/level. Additional uses at 9th, 13th and 17th level. Mostly functions as Beast Shape II, with listed changes. it has a list of Forms, and the free Web Enhancement has more. In the actual book it is Centaur, Hellhound, Winter Wolf, Nightmare, Unicorn, Lamia, and GynoSphinx. Some get spell like abilities or breath weapons, each usable 1/day or 1/form use whatever. Some work as higher level Beast Shapes, and require higher levels to select. At 6th level and every 3 levels thereafter the Shapeshifter gets a bonus feat from a list. Some of the feats have strange limitations, and can only be taken once. This does not make me happy. At 5th level, why did this show up after the Bonus Feat?, and every 3 levels thereafter the Shapeshifter gains a Form Power (Ex) that can only be used while in Alter Self, Shapechange, Form of the Mythical Beast, Form of the Dragon, and Giant Forms. Some require an action, some have a limited per day use, some have requirements, some work like class features from another class and don't stack with those. Seems like about half are 1/day or 3/day. A couple give a Competence bonus on certain uses of a skill, based off level and maxing out at +10. 10th level gets Form of the Dragon (Su) 1/day, period, for 1 minute/level. Form of the Dragon I and Medium size at this level, going to Form of the Dragon II and Large at 12th, and Form of the Dragon III and Huge at 14th. At 13th is Giant Form (Su) 1/day for 1 minute/level again. Giant Form I Large forms at this level and Giant Form II Huge forms at 15th. And the capstone at 19th level is Swift Form Change (Su) making it so all but Mythical Beast and Monstrous Aspect can be done as a Swift Action instead of a Standard Action. Finally. Actually typing all that out they seem to get a lot of transformations, at least once you start getting to like 5th level or more. Though a lot of them don't last anywhere near as long as Wild Shape. Not actually sure how it actually compares to a Druid's Wild Shape, especially when you take into account possible Archetypes, or whatever the term was. Or feats. I remember there being a lot of feats that beefed up Wild Shape and that won't work for these. The free Grimoire Viperian Web Enhancement has some tips for Shapeshifters, some adjustments of feats and magic items to be compatible with the Shapeshifter, instead of the Druid. Some suggested animals for the various levels and abilities. And some new feats and forms. New Forms of the Mythical Beast include: Androsphinx, Thunderbird, Sea Serpent, and Phoenix. Phoenix is pretty dang cool, even if it does require level 18. New Shapeshifter Feats, including some already existing feats with adjustments for Shapeshifters: Aspect of the Beast (APG), Extended Form of the Dragon which extends duration from 1 minute a level to 3 minutes a level, Extended Form of the Mythical Beast ditto except 5 minutes/level, Extended Giant Form ditto 3 minutes/level also says can only be taken once which makes no sense as none of these extended feats make sense as being taken more than once, Extra Favored Form does as it says on the tin you gain another Favored Form and it can be taken more than once for even more Favored Forms, Extra Form of the Dragon lets you use Form of the Dragon 2 more times in a day for a total of 3/day, Extra Form of the Mythical Beast and Extra Giant Form both also add 2 more uses/day of their respective forms, same with Extra Shapechange, big surprise. Natural Spell. Uh basically it just extends the benefits of Natural Spell to some, not all, of a Shapeshifter's abilities should they be a Druid/Shapeshifter. Then again the abilities it doesn't effect probably can already cast spells. Powerful Shape (UM) specifically calls out you must choose Shapeshifter or Druid, if you have both, to benefit from the feat, also specifies it only works in the Shapechange forms, not any of the other options Shapeshifters get. Quick Wild Shape (UM) again only works for Shapechange and again pick Shapeshifter or Druid if you multiclass and it benefits only one of them. And that feat obviously loses its uses once you get the level 19 Shapeshifter feature. Shaping Focus (UM) same limitations as the other UM feats. Druid's Vestments grant another daily use of Shapechange, but not the other shapeshifting stuff. Shifter's Deadly Gloves, 16k gold, are attuned to one kind of natural attack. While wearing them the Shapeshifter's natural attacks of that kind have an expanded crit range and count as magical. Shifter's Wounding Gloves are basically the same, except Wounding instead of Keen. Wild Armor works for the Shapeshifter's shapeshifting abilities like it does a Druid's Wild Shape. The free web errata also has some errata and corrections. Some of which are fairly nice. Alter Self ability: change uses to 3/day instead of 1/day Level 20: Change Shapechange (10/day) to Shapechange (at will) Bonus Feats: Replace “Agile” with “Acrobatic” on the list of bonus feats. Also add the shapeshifter feats included in the web enhancement section to the list. So yeah that problem of being able to Alter Self 1/day at 1st and nothing else? Not quite as much of a problem, and now it will probably be rare to not be shifted in one way or another. And hey 10/day is pretty nice, but finally at will Shapechange, albeit at 20th level which didn't have any capstone at all before. Now you can switch shapes as a swift action as often as you want, so long as they are beast forms that fall under the Shapeshifter's Shapechange of course. Much more utility. Use the right form for the right job, instead of staying in whatever form you were in so you don't waste uses. Of course that is at 20th level. And besides Druid gets at will Wild Shape at 20th level. Also I just looked it up and I guess they only get 8 Wild Shapes at 18th level, so Shapeshifter is way ahead on Shapechange at least. Of course Wild Shape has Elemental and Plant forms, and has all those feats to open up more.
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Apr 16, 2015 10:09
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ZorajitZorajit posted:So, after a long hiatus, I've got my Pathfinder table getting together again. Two months ago, I was struggling to get three players together. Now I have twelve, with three more asking me to run a game. So.... crap. Five are brand new to tabletop role playing, but they're all players that I'd really like to play with. I'll be discussing it with the party at large this Friday, hopefully with a mind to splitting up the party into multiple groups. Just wanted to fish for ideas on how to handle this. You should split this into two groups running different days if possible. Have them working on opposite sides, hunting for artifacts or searching for evidence of misdeeds, etc. You could even have them leave nasty traps or have bards turn townsfolk against each other - unfortunately you'd have to record rolls and compare against each other after the sessions and give them results later which could be a drag. For the love of god though, don't run a 12 man game, you'll end with a party of level 2 characters killing dragons or something.
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Apr 16, 2015 17:28
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Baudin posted:For the love of god though, don't run a 12 man game, you'll end with a party of level 2 characters killing dragons or something. That sounds awesome.
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Apr 16, 2015 20:47
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Combat will also take forever!
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Apr 16, 2015 21:07
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Xun posted:Combat will also take forever! Until the first breath weapon, that'll thin out the herd quite a bit.
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Apr 16, 2015 21:28
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Evil Sagan posted:That sounds awesome. We immediately sold the skeleton to a mystery stranger (read: cultist) and would have faced him in a session or so as a skeleton dragon being ridden by a big bad. The GM was a bit annoyed that our paladin took off his head immediately before he flew off - something about the dragon being a bit cocky about this troupe of undergeared and underleveled characters. We stripped that cave of everything down to the coppers.
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Apr 16, 2015 21:35
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ZorajitZorajit posted:So, after a long hiatus, I've got my Pathfinder table getting together again. Two months ago, I was struggling to get three players together. Now I have twelve, with three more asking me to run a game. So.... crap. Five are brand new to tabletop role playing, but they're all players that I'd really like to play with. I'll be discussing it with the party at large this Friday, hopefully with a mind to splitting up the party into multiple groups. Just wanted to fish for ideas on how to handle this. I'm actually running two different games right now also. I did a homebrew world with different timelines so one story affects how the other plays out in terms of big-picture type stuff. For example, one group is current fighting in the civil war on the rebel side trying to get followers to help overthrow the oppressive, conquering human lord. The other group is post civil war where tensions are still high among the ethnic groups and they're trying to get help from the higher lords and kings to fight the long forgotten dead army. Think a mix between Game of Thrones with The Night's Watch trying to get support to fight north of the wall while everybody else is still trying to gain power after the war combined with America post civil war with racial tensions, segregation, and sometimes blatant racism. So the current timeline story has already set the main plot points for the past story, and the group playing the past story will fill in the details.
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Apr 16, 2015 22:50
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I found the Racial Heritage feat, which makes you count as human and one other humanoid race for purposes of race only feats, archetypes, favored enemy and so on, and now I want to see how much of a mutt I can make from a single character. Race: half-elf (counts as Human, Elf) Feat: Racial Heritage (Counts as some other humanoid race, say dwarf) Trait: Adopted (Doesn't count as that race, but gives you a trait unique to your adoptive race) class: Sorcerer, Cross-blooded archetype bloodlines: Orc and Accursed (Counts as Orc and Hag for purposes of joining a coven) So our mutt is Human, Elf, Dwarf, and Orc, with significant Hag blood, and was raised by Gnomes. Any ways to jam another race in there? I realize this is actually a terrible idea - no benefits in exchange for being nearly every ranger's favored enemy - but it is amusing.
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Apr 19, 2015 15:26
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Lucky Guy posted:I found the Racial Heritage feat, which makes you count as human and one other humanoid race for purposes of race only feats, archetypes, favored enemy and so on, and now I want to see how much of a mutt I can make from a single character. polymorph: halfling.
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Apr 22, 2015 15:06
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I've talked about it a few times here and it's been a long time coming, but we're finally moving forward in May with one completed adventure module and a beta version of our tools for delivering and playing PFRPG content. The Mirror Realms of the Tempest is a campaign setting and series of adventure modules built from the ground up to be played online, with usable VTT assets (maps, NPC tokens, macros) ready to go out of the box. We're looking for gamemasters interested in running games with our software, either for their own games, or playing through our first adventure. If you're interested, let me know! https://www.syncrpg.com/blog/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZEXzcttyag
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Apr 22, 2015 19:10
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Dreamscarred Press is planning to release a sourcebook about airships. This has gotten me very excited.
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Apr 22, 2015 23:48
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I was excited at first, but the document is a nightmare to navigate and everything is unbelievably expensive. When asked, the creator yelled something about airships not being minivans. E: it's also, in my opinion, a LOT more complicated than it needs to be Eox fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 00:04
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loving airships, every time. People really need to let plot devices be plot devices.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:06
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Clicked a link to read about awesome airships. Instead got a bunch of anti-fun rules-lawyering bullshit. I have an edit for that document... delete the first 45 pages and get to the part where I can allahu ackbar my airship into a castle.
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Apr 23, 2015 21:04
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zachol posted:loving airships, every time. I'm not sure why vehicle systems are always fundamentally more complicated than the PCs driving them when they get into RPGs. There is a lot of irony in trying to systematize a plot device designed to let the PCs have lots of freedom to move between lots of different settings quickly and in the process making it prohibitively restrictive and boring.
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Apr 23, 2015 21:06
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What is with Pathfinder and 3.5 that causes people to make lovely complicated systems about absolutely everything. The base game already has enough lovely complicated systems.
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Apr 23, 2015 21:07
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One of my favorite moments in 3.5 was on an airship so I'd probably be excited, but I don't expect Paizo to do anything interesting with them.
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Apr 23, 2015 21:10
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Pathfinder Ultimate Tax Code! New rules for independent contractors and filing jointly as a married couple! New prestige classes such as non-profit CEO and CPA! Spells such as Litigate and Incorporate! Next month, the long awaited Pathfinder Cutlery and Table Manners Unchained! All the boring tedious rules you never gave a poo poo about but the dude you're playing with who has really greasy hair cares a whole lot about for some reason and he'll argue about them endlessly!
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Apr 23, 2015 21:11
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sugar free jazz posted:Pathfinder Ultimate Tax Code! New rules for independent contractors and filing jointly as a married couple! New prestige classes such as non-profit CEO and CPA! Spells such as Litigate and Incorporate! Ultimate Campaign: Taxation Systems 15 Fantasy Fees and Taxes
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Apr 23, 2015 21:13
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But does it simulate mustard smuggling in medieval France, the only possible niche not filled by other, more powerful NPCs?
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Apr 23, 2015 21:19
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mother fucker
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Apr 23, 2015 21:20
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Oh my god.
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Apr 23, 2015 22:09
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Pathfinder is the best RPG. 
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Apr 23, 2015 22:24
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quote:Anchor Danger: Being in the anchor room when it is dropped can be a horrible experience. The massive chains attached to the anchor spin out through the anchor s port and anything they touch can be ripped forward and crushed against the side of the hull, or more horrifyingly, could be partially yanked through the portal and chewed to pieces by the chain as it whips out and down. Any creature in the anchor room when it is released must make a Reflex save (DC 15) to avoid being hit by the chain. Those who are hit by the uncoiling chain suffer 1d4 hit points of damage per 100 pounds of the anchor' s weight. Those who roll a 1 for this save are snagged by one of the chain s links perhaps their hand goes through the opening or a kink in the chain loops around their leg. If this occurs, the individual instead suffers 1d8 hit points of damage per 100 pounds of the anchor s weight for each round the anchor falls.
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Apr 23, 2015 22:48
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That's a lot of text just to say "Reflex Save DC15 or die"
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Apr 23, 2015 22:50
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Actually it's closer to DC 15 or die if level < 12. If level > 12 be slightly inconvenienced for 1-4 rounds.
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Apr 23, 2015 22:59
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Regarding the airships stuff, I'm having a bit of trouble parsing it because gdocs lags a bit for me with massive 200 page documents, so I can't flick through to cross-reference things - how much does a standard-fare airship actually cost? In the sample ships section there is a 48-ton wooden one without any weapons for 50,000gp, then right after it is the 1000-ton stoneship - apparently the dwarves main type of ship - which costs 3.75 million gp. There's a weird disconnect here in terms of pricing. The actual rules themselves don't seem super complex, just like 3D manouvres bolted onto Vehicles rules? The issue there I guess is that pathfinder vehicles rules aren't all that great. The custom creation rules are hideous though, good god. I guess part of the complexity of every single subsystem added on in supplements is that it's Pathfinder's whole thing - they have appeal to 3.5 diehards, and I guess part of 3.5/PF's entire appeal is the complexity of the rules and attempting to simulate loving everything? So any new subsystem has to follow the same appeal to complexity rather than ease of use or any sort of good design? I mean for narrative/freeform games there is massive competition, so it would make sense.
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Apr 23, 2015 23:13
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The rules are almost a carbon copy of Airships by Bastion Press from like 2003, the guy running this has made some tweaks but it's still an ancient creaky system. He's considering doing something like the firearms rules with an "airships everywhere" option that cuts costs by 10% but they're still ludicrously expensive aside from the basic weapon-free Zeppelin.
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Apr 24, 2015 00:40
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Taking a look at existing Paizo stuff, apparently a primitive zeppelin is 50,000 gp, a hang glider is 500 gp  , a magic flying dragon thing is 100,000 gp, and a magic flying sailing ship is 63,500 gp (but can only fly for 10 rounds per day).
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Apr 24, 2015 02:28
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I love the hang glider because nowhere does it say that you have to land or lose altitude.
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Apr 24, 2015 02:33
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Roadie posted:a magic flying sailing ship is 63,500 gp (but can only fly for 10 rounds per day). one minute of flight a day? what's even the point?
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Apr 24, 2015 02:36
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Once a day you can do a sweet roll off a water ramp.
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Apr 24, 2015 02:39
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Red Metal posted:one minute of flight a day? what's even the point? It's ten nonconsecutive rounds. It's worse than a minute.
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Apr 24, 2015 02:50
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Eox posted:The rules are almost a carbon copy of Airships by Bastion Press from like 2003, the guy running this has made some tweaks but it's still an ancient creaky system. He's considering doing something like the firearms rules with an "airships everywhere" option that cuts costs by 10% but they're still ludicrously expensive aside from the basic weapon-free Zeppelin. By 10% or to 10%? I can't see any of his comments on the gdoc for some reason, probably ludicrous lag issues, the only thing showing up is 100 million small comments about spelling/grammar/formatting mistakes. I can't even search the document for the minivan retort. In our Planescape game, we eventually upgraded our Earth-sailing ship to make it fly by just bolting a Spelljamming helm onto it, which let it straight-up fly as per the spell, or let it travel at Plot/Jamming Speed in wildspace. The ship itself was made by ancient elves or giants during/after the war for Arborea, via a pact with earth elementals. It could sail on land, was larger on the inside, and pass through soil or natural stone for 20 minutes/week or something similar. I think it was a Major Artefact our GM borrowed from a Dragon/Dungeon magazine issue, along with the dungeon we found it in.
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Apr 24, 2015 03:41
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