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Mr. Fortitude posted:Seeing so many free market libertarian types defend this, some of which are seemingly my own friends is depressing as hell. It's okay to have friends with whom you have political differences.
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Apr 24, 2015 15:54
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Ynglaur posted:It's okay to have friends with whom you have political differences. Libertarians, not even once!
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Apr 24, 2015 16:00
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZaVTKzFdGA&t=60s Edit: Congratulations on your Hot File, Nerd of Prey. It couldn't have been easy beating Elly Tran Ha Enhanced Character Edit Slot Preset or CME SAVE in this modding environment. Alasyre fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Apr 24, 2015 |
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Apr 24, 2015 16:00
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LtSmash posted:SKSE is NOT under the MIT license. Parts of it are (those in the src/common folder) but the core of it is not released under any license. You are explicitly not allowed to redistribute it either as is or a modified version. They in fact had versions that were built with the memory fix taken down from the nexus and other sites because they don't want competing forks that will confuse people. And mods that use SKSE don't actually include any of SKSE in them so even if they changed SKSE to a more draconian license (whatever that could be since you get nothing now) it wouldn't bar people from distributing mods that use it. Oh, their site makes it look like it's under the MIT license but I guess they don't explicitly say it now that I look at it closer.
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Apr 24, 2015 16:08
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Behippo (one of the SKSE devs) made a post that was copied on the official forums. http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1516230-wipz-skyrim-script-extender-skse/#entry23943427 Looks like SKSE will still be free and they won't stop anyone from making paid mods.
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Apr 24, 2015 16:17
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Ynglaur posted:It's okay to have friends with whom you have political differences. It's ok sure, but it is hard if you have empathy for other people.
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Apr 24, 2015 16:31
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there was a bethesda employee interviewed about paying for mods https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=37&v=eDyXIXyAZq0
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Apr 24, 2015 16:31
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Alasyre posted:Edit: Congratulations on your Hot File, Nerd of Prey. It couldn't have been easy beating Elly Tran Ha Enhanced Character Edit Slot Preset or CME SAVE in this modding environment. Thank you! It's kind of hilarious how much more popular this is than all the mods I have put serious work into.
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Apr 24, 2015 16:43
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Ynglaur posted:It's okay to have friends with whom you have political differences. Yeah, I generally try to not discuss politics with them because we get long well despite these differences but then poo poo like this happens. Whatever, the damage is done. I'm more interested to see how people's attitudes towards Valve and Bethesda change in the future and how it would affect their future games.
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Apr 24, 2015 17:10
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Police Automaton posted:It's not even Bethesda titles, it's every game supporting the Workshop on steam (eventually). This will have big implications. A bizarre conclusion of all this is also that game companies now can passively make income by making their game moddable and leaving stuff out for the players to fill in. Mr Scumbag posted:Hahahaha. But it literally is now, and not only will modders fix it, BETHESDA will get paid for it. This has created an environment where developers can profit off not patching/fixing their game. Ding ding ding! Show these contestants what they've won. JerikTelorian posted:The second major part of this is that modding Skyrim often means having dozens or hundreds of mods. For many, this means an exorbitant price (2-3x the game release price or more). You're essentially destroying that style of play, which is very popular. In the short term this may happen but the system will eventually be tweaked--the customers will end up paying more like twice the release price for the mods, which customers will grumble about but will pay. The long-range plan for the publishers (Valve is just taking a cut, this is about the publishers' plans) is shifting to a system wherein they can rush out a buggy barely-more-than-alpha game and then get paid while modders who are making a relative pittance do all the patching work for them. The tax liability on mod sale income will be much less than the tax (and insurance) liability on employees. This is about co-opting modders into being de facto low paid independent contractors.
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Apr 24, 2015 17:29
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Looking at these subscriber numbers, I'm gonna say they're about what I'd expect to see with just the dumbest, richest libertarian types buying in to appease the floating head of Ayn Rand. Also people who genuinely want to support the devs, but I'm not seeing anything in the way of general consumer interest in those numbers.
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Apr 24, 2015 17:30
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Way to kill the golden goose, Bethesda. Jesus Christ.
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Apr 24, 2015 17:38
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Hobo Siege posted:Looking at these subscriber numbers, I'm gonna say they're about what I'd expect to see with just the dumbest, richest libertarian types buying in to appease the floating head of Ayn Rand. Also people who genuinely want to support the devs, but I'm not seeing anything in the way of general consumer interest in those numbers. Not to mention many big name modders are against the idea of monetization itself, so I'm willing to bet Workshop won't destroy the glorious free modding market of Nexus a second time.
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Apr 24, 2015 17:46
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Hobo Siege posted:Looking at these subscriber numbers, I'm gonna say they're about what I'd expect to see with just the dumbest, richest libertarian types buying in to appease the floating head of Ayn Rand. Also people who genuinely want to support the devs, but I'm not seeing anything in the way of general consumer interest in those numbers. Maybe not long-term, but the Purity mod alone has scored $300 for their cut so far since this went live less than 24 hours ago; I'd wager that the initial batch of paid mods are probably all going to walk away with a decent chunk of change in the next few weeks. Skyrim still puts up a shitload of daily concurrent users and I suspect a not-insignificant number of them are going to see nicely-presented screenshots of some of these mods and not bat an eye at dropping a buck or two on them as though there were just small DLC. If their cut was 50% instead of 25% that'd be a lot more of a chunk of change, mind; as it stands, Bethesda and Valve get $800 to split off of 'facilitating' the transaction and proceeds. Most signs point to 25% being kind of a 'dirty secret' but commonplace baseline cut for these things. GaistHeidegger fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Apr 24, 2015 |
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Apr 24, 2015 17:47
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 So 25% is a relatively good deal I guess? That or Rocket was getting hilariously hosed.
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Apr 24, 2015 17:49
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Bholder posted:Not to mention many big name modders are against the idea of monetization itself, so I'm willing to bet Workshop won't destroy the glorious free modding market of Nexus a second time. Unless Bethesda decides that mods can only be released on the Workshop legally. They can definitely keep people from modding if they want to, other companies have managed it. Republicans posted:
Rocket's an rear end in a top hat anyway. gently caress him.
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Apr 24, 2015 17:49
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I'd be wary of buying mods simply because there's a chance it will have buggy interactions with other mods and may not even work properly without making my game poo poo the bed. I don't want to spend money on something that's a gamble if it's even stable 100% of the time. Also I currently like like 110 mods installed, even if they all cost 50p that's still £55, only £13.75 actually getting to the modders, each of who gets 12 pennies each. Maybe I'm old and raging against the changing tides but a mod is going to have to be very impressive and consistently stable for me to be willing to Xachariah fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Apr 24, 2015 |
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Apr 24, 2015 18:10
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Squeegy posted:Rocket's an rear end in a top hat anyway. gently caress him. The whole reason why standalone took so long to add the features the mod had in its first year is that Bohemia didn't want to cut anybody else in on the DayZ money train. One of the modders who did much of the work on the mod just wanted to finish college before jetting off to Czechland and Bohemia was all 'Nope." and cut him out. So they couldn't use any of the guy's work (or anybody but Rocket's essentially).
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Apr 24, 2015 18:14
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Looks like Chesko won't be selling his mods after all: https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/429561499/611704730315322647/ Man, what an unnecessary cluster gently caress this whole thing is. Even if they remove the paid mod features or whatever, the damage has been done here. I just can't even fathom how greedy/stupid the people at Bethesda making these decisions are, christ. The modding community for their games has literally been what kept them so interesting all these years.
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Apr 24, 2015 18:24
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At least people will be leery enough to be prepared for, I dunno, rigging the mod manager to operate with sources other than Steam or whatever those geniuses will come up with next.
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Apr 24, 2015 18:26
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Gyshall posted:Looks like Chesko won't be selling his mods after all: He made a detailed writeup on Reddit if you care for that sort of thing. He posted it in the thread you linked.
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Apr 24, 2015 18:31
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Mr. Fortitude posted:He made a detailed writeup on Reddit if you care for that sort of thing. He posted it in the thread you linked. Yes and apparently if you put something on the workshop, Valve will never remove it ever, unless they're legally forced to do so. Even if it's your own work. They'll at most hide it so people can't buy it anymore.
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Apr 24, 2015 18:33
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Mr. Fortitude posted:He made a detailed writeup on Reddit if you care for that sort of thing. He posted it in the thread you linked. This is the biggest loving train wreck ever, holy christ
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Apr 24, 2015 18:36
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Oceanbound posted:Yes and apparently if you put something on the workshop, Valve will never remove it ever, unless they're legally forced to do so. Even if it's your own work. They'll at most hide it so people can't buy it anymore. It basically just goes to show that the libertarian free market defense people have used is a bunch of bullshit, since once you've published a mod on the workshop you have no control over removing it or anything else. It's slave labour and exploitation on the behalf of Bethesda and Valve.
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Apr 24, 2015 18:38
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Oceanbound posted:Yes and apparently if you put something on the workshop, Valve will never remove it ever, unless they're legally forced to do so. Even if it's your own work. They'll at most hide it so people can't buy it anymore. Now we are getting somewhere. I suspect many, many modders are going to panic at the idea that Valve essentially owns their work once removed. The good ones will be concerned about the implications, and Flowerchild mad because ~my vision~.
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Apr 24, 2015 18:45
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https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/ apparently the nexus is getting a cut of workshop dosh too jfc burn it all to the ground
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Apr 24, 2015 18:49
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ANIME IS BLOOD posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/ This confused me the most, how does that even work 
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Apr 24, 2015 18:49
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Danaru posted:This confused me the most, how does that even work If someone buys it valve is obligated to keep it up so those people can use it. It's like how even if a publisher delists a game form the steam store you can still download it since it is still in your steam library. e: Whoops wasn't about the "real-time update." Yeah that part is just you being given options on where to send valve's cut if you don't want it to go just to valve.
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Apr 24, 2015 18:52
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Danaru posted:This confused me the most, how does that even work You can choose to have Valve's cut of the profit to be sent to other places, like the SkyUI team, or the Nexus. It's valve's half-assed way of saying "sorry we hosed up your modding scene"
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Apr 24, 2015 18:52
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KakerMix posted:It's ok sure, but it is hard if you have empathy for other people. If I were to empathize with the Libertarian I would respond with: "I know. Somebody works hard, and it's frustrating to have a third-party come in and take from them the fruits of their labors." If I were to empathize with the non-Libertarian I would respond with: "I know. Just because you create something doesn't mean you don't have an obligation to help those around you, whatever their circumstance."  Since it's Skyrim, though, let's just amuse ourselves at the utter shitstorm that will arise when mods with multiple, chained dependencies start getting into slap-fights over revenue rights.
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Apr 24, 2015 18:53
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ANIME IS BLOOD posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/ that doesnt bother me so much. nexus might make money off this in some convoluted way but they arent the ones trying to reach into my back pocket
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Apr 24, 2015 18:58
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Ynglaur posted:Since it's Skyrim, though, let's just amuse ourselves at the utter shitstorm that will arise when mods with multiple, chained dependencies start getting into slap-fights over revenue rights. I'm just waiting for some mod that is a dependency for something like 1,000 mods decides to go "gently caress it, this mod now costs $50", so now those mods that were $1-5 before now have another barrier to them. Everything is too intertwined right now to just sort of throw this into the mix. I was also really nice of the SKSE guys to not really decide to charge for their service, but I kind of want to see someone just sort of throw a giant wrench into the whole system.
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Apr 24, 2015 19:02
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whoops. that 75c blind raven armor just dropped off the face of the earth too. e: hang on.. did every single paid mod just get taken down??? Slugnoid fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Apr 24, 2015 |
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Apr 24, 2015 19:03
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Grinning Goblin posted:I'm just waiting for some mod that is a dependency for something like 1,000 mods decides to go "gently caress it, this mod now costs $50", so now those mods that were $1-5 before now have another barrier to them. Everything is too intertwined right now to just sort of throw this into the mix. I was also really nice of the SKSE guys to not really decide to charge for their service, but I kind of want to see someone just sort of throw a giant wrench into the whole system. We can only hope that the SkyUI team decides to charge out the rear end for the MCM and completely gently caress up all MCM-dependent mods.
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Apr 24, 2015 19:03
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Have they said how this is going to work with copyright stuff? Like people making Game of Thrones shields or pony heads or whatever. I assume Valve's response is "you get sued we get paid"?
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Apr 24, 2015 19:04
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We're only at about square 4 of the Chutes-and-Ladders board of this specific issue, but here's the big, important thing you should learn from the experience: I don't know Bethesda's history, but it is clearly now being run by the same kind of people that run EA. From here forward you can expect EA-esque shortsighted business practices (gently caress quality, ship it and book the revenue now) and you only have yourself to blame if you give them money for any of their future products. I doubt this fiasco is going to be The End of Skyrim As We Know It, as some fear. But Elder Scrolls 6 is guaranteed to be a SimCity-esque shitstorm.
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Apr 24, 2015 19:05
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Eric the Mauve posted:We're only at about square 4 of the Chutes-and-Ladders board of this specific issue, but here's the big, important thing you should learn from the experience: I don't know Bethesda's history, but it is clearly now being run by the same kind of people that run EA. From here forward you can expect EA-esque shortsighted business practices (gently caress quality, ship it and book the revenue now) and you only have yourself to blame if you give them money for any of their future products. Bethesda has always been, uh, 'unpolished', in that every single ES and FO=<3 game has a mod that fixes all the poo poo they didn't bother too. Despite that I still like their games, but ever since Elder Scrolls Online they've been getting really shady and wierd  Even moreso than the horse armour debacle.
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Apr 24, 2015 19:07
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yeah.. so unless its down for maintenance or something i think steam just deleted every paid mod 
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Apr 24, 2015 19:08
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Danaru posted:Bethesda has always been, uh, 'unpolished', in that every game has a mod that fixes all the poo poo they didn't bother too. Despite that I still like their games, but ever since Elder Scrolls Online they've been getting really shady and wierd It's funny because a decade ago, people considered horse armor to be greedy and terrible and the downfall of gaming, but now, Horse Armor would be an example of "good DLC." It's cheap, it's purely cosmetic (okay, there is an in-game effect but it's so minuscule that it doesnt confer a significant advantage and nobody who bought it did so to make their horses more resilient), and it's not made of assets that exist in-game that are just "unlocked" by buying it. A decade from now will the gaming industry have evolved into something so monstrous that we long for the days of the Curated Steam Workshop?
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Apr 24, 2015 19:15
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Slugnoid posted:yeah.. so unless its down for maintenance or something i think steam just deleted every paid mod Holy poo poo, every single mod leads to a 404 from Steam.
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Apr 24, 2015 19:15
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