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Don't worry Hong Kongers, your children will be using unified education textbooks in 32 years.
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Apr 23, 2015 18:10
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Raenir Salazar posted:That's an obviously lazy and knee jerk counter argument and you should know better. Except my whole point is the same. Replace the quotation-marked parts with appropriately adjusted regional buzzwords and it's what you get. At the end of the day, the differences aren't ones that will simply vanish with a free trip to a place. Regional animosities and enmities are the result of inequality and deliberate policies of favoritism - feel good "exchanges" don't serve any purpose than to assuage guilt.
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Apr 23, 2015 18:54
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Death to the CPC and its boot lickers in the independent sovereign state of Hong Kong.
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Apr 23, 2015 19:14
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Ceciltron posted:Except my whole point is the same. Replace the quotation-marked parts with appropriately adjusted regional buzzwords and it's what you get. At the end of the day, the differences aren't ones that will simply vanish with a free trip to a place. Regional animosities and enmities are the result of inequality and deliberate policies of favoritism - feel good "exchanges" don't serve any purpose than to assuage guilt. Your argument in that post basically boils down to "Because its bad"; it's not an substantiated argument and it doesn't assert any facts, logic, or evidence to support the position that the negatives of cultural exchanges outweigh the good. That's why it's lazy. The assertion in this post your making is different, because there's at least an arguable assertion, "Don't serve any purpose other than to assuage guilt", I still find this unconvincing, I believe that cultural exchanges are just one of a variety of perfectly legitimate social engineering tools the state has at its disposal to implement its intended policy. One obvious one being "Make Hong Konger's identify more with a common national identity" which again, perfectly legitimate and every nation easily has that obligation to carry out.
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Apr 23, 2015 21:04
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Raenir Salazar posted:I believe that cultural exchanges are just one of a variety of perfectly legitimate social engineering tools the state has at its disposal to implement its intended policy. One obvious one being "Make Hong Konger's identify more with a common national identity" which again, perfectly legitimate and every nation easily has that obligation to carry out.
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Apr 23, 2015 21:11
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Raenir Salazar posted:Your argument in that post basically boils down to "Because its bad"; it's not an substantiated argument and it doesn't assert any facts, logic, or evidence to support the position that the negatives of cultural exchanges outweigh the good. That's why it's lazy. Imposing a particular national identity on anyone is bad, I disagree that it is a legitimate practice and further question that there is an obligation on either end for it to be carried out.
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Apr 24, 2015 02:03
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Exchange program with Chinese characteristics?
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Apr 24, 2015 02:06
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Discendo Vox posted:Exchange program with Chinese characteristics? You miss "..hurting Chinese people's feelings." Always HCPF.
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Apr 24, 2015 02:10
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Xtronoc posted:Well, they couldn't pass compulsory "national education" in schools, so the only resort is to send kids to the mainland to be brainwashed instead. Any secondary school program involving a trip to mainland is basically an all expense paid trip by the HK government. Yeah a trip to China sounds fun but that means secondary kids get to see the birthplace of Mao and bum gently caress Hunan or some monument glorifying the CCP. Kids want to go to Taiwan and see some KMT stuff? NOPE! Sure I think it's important to see the mainland and learn more about it instead of relying on scare mongering news or some outdated views. But we have to see what the mainland is instead of the usual propaganda. A developing country going through break neck speeds with lovely internet, lovely rights, questionable infrastructure. I love Xinjiang food and never stop talking about the Autonomous region of Xinjiang of the Uighur's Affairs Office Shenzhen Branch Halal Kitchen restaurant. But nope, we just learn how AWESOME CHINA is right now, that's it  At least talk about the environmental damage, the economic costs, change in family dynamics and all that jazz.
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Apr 24, 2015 02:25
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How are the Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward portrayed in Chinese schools, out of curiosity?
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Apr 24, 2015 02:29
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Raenir Salazar posted:I believe that cultural exchanges are just one of a variety of perfectly legitimate social engineering tools the state has at its disposal to implement its intended policy. One obvious one being "Make Hong Konger's identify more with a common national identity" which again, perfectly legitimate and every nation easily has that obligation to carry out. Do you justify limiting the language of TV stations and education system? Guangzhou lucked out with its Cantonese programming because of its proximity to Hong Kong but schools in Guangzhou do not teach Cantonese at all. Lots of Wu dialects and other languages got wiped out for the sake of "standard mandarin". Or for the sake of a national identity enforce racial segregation of schools?
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Apr 24, 2015 02:30
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caberham posted:Any secondary school program involving a trip to mainland is basically an all expense paid trip by the HK government. Yeah a trip to China sounds fun but that means secondary kids get to see the birthplace of Mao and bum gently caress Hunan or some monument glorifying the CCP. Kids want to go to Taiwan and see some KMT stuff? NOPE! Were you on one of these trips? Is there a blog post some where that show me the itinerary of such trip?
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Apr 24, 2015 02:31
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Fojar38 posted:How are the Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward portrayed in Chinese schools, out of curiosity? I'm guessing that falls in the "Mao was [...] 30% wrong" category.
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Apr 24, 2015 02:32
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whatever7 posted:Were you on one of these trips? Is there a blog post some where that show me the itinerary of such trip? Some of my friends are high school teachers teach in schools associated with the Hong Kong Federation of Education Workers. They are as pro beijing as you can get when it comes to teachers. Oh and I forgot my uncle was a principal in a FEW aligned school. School trips and budgeting were really easy to organize. Funding and transparency was quite opaque - not that teachers were pocketing the budget or anything. Whereas his wife, my aunt worked at a Professional Teacher's Union aligned school as a teacher. It was all about JUNE 4 NEVER FORGET, ANTI-NATIONAL EDUCATION. Field trips and funding required a lot more forms and transparency. caberham fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Apr 24, 2015 |
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Apr 24, 2015 02:36
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caberham posted:At least talk about the environmental damage, the economic costs, change in family dynamics and all that jazz. To be fair no country ever talks about recent history in an educational context until it's like ~30 years old.
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Apr 24, 2015 02:37
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caberham posted:Some of my friends are high school teachers teach in schools associated with the Hong Kong Federation of Education Workers. They are as pro beijing as you can get when it comes to teachers So its actually a long 3-4 day trip to Hunan? What's the name of such trip? Maybe I can google the rest myself.
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Apr 24, 2015 02:39
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To reinforce Hong Konger identity, organise a 3-4 day trip to Henan, replete with Street making GBS threads lessons.
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Apr 24, 2015 03:14
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Raenir Salazar posted:It sounds reasonable to me to want students to have a broader cultural understanding of the national as a whole and to break down parochial provincialism. I wouldn't object to having mandatory cross-provincial schooling in Canada if the government were to foot the bill. Hmmm why would anyone oppose government coercion aimed at taking students away from their social networks and families to receive the stated benefits of "broader cultural understanding" and "breaking down parochial provincialism." Perhaps they are concerned about unreasonable use of coercion, pointless administrative costs, large intangible costs to students and limited real benefits?
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Apr 24, 2015 03:57
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caberham posted:Do you justify limiting the language of TV stations and education system? Guangzhou lucked out with its Cantonese programming because of its proximity to Hong Kong but schools in Guangzhou do not teach Cantonese at all. Lots of Wu dialects and other languages got wiped out for the sake of "standard mandarin". To be fair, France also did this some centuries back and people would swear up and down that it's always been that way.
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Apr 24, 2015 04:47
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WarpedNaba posted:To be fair, France also did this some centuries back and people would swear up and down that it's always been that way.
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Apr 24, 2015 05:00
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Really? Coulda sworn Louis the 6th tried his hand at it. Learn something every day.
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Apr 24, 2015 05:07
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whatever7 posted:Don't worry Hong Kongers, your children will be using unified education textbooks in 32 years. It's called Common Core. And I think 32 years is a little generous to assume the US will have instituted civilian rule in the Acquired Territories by then.
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Apr 24, 2015 06:21
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whatever7 posted:Don't worry Hong Kongers, your children will be using unified education textbooks in 32 years. I'm pretty sure the full system overhaul is planned for five years.
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Apr 24, 2015 06:24
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We had pictures from the school's "teacher exchange to Mainland" trip (which I didn't go on because I'm doing PGDE assignments so yay me) shared at our school staff meeting yesterday. It was all glitzy new schools, group exercise, smiles, demonstrations of student independence and group learning ... in classrooms with 70 kids so far back they can't see the board.
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Apr 24, 2015 06:40
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Bloodnose posted:It's called Common Core. And I think 32 years is a little generous to assume the US will have instituted civilian rule in the Acquired Territories by then. Pretty sure it's not called Common Core
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Apr 24, 2015 07:05
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Common core with Chinese Characteristics?
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Apr 24, 2015 07:21
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WarpedNaba posted:Really? Coulda sworn Louis the 6th tried his hand at it. Learn something every day. It was Francis I who made French the official language used in legal documents in 1539.
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Apr 24, 2015 07:21
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Imperialist Dog posted:We had pictures from the school's "teacher exchange to Mainland" trip (which I didn't go on because I'm doing PGDE assignments so yay me) shared at our school staff meeting yesterday. It was all glitzy new schools, group exercise, smiles, demonstrations of student independence and group learning ... in classrooms with 70 kids so far back they can't see the board. To be fair group learning is a good way to go when you have large classes like the proletariat.
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Apr 24, 2015 07:28
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So if these exchange programmes are designed to encourage integration and shared experiences between different parts of China, how many Beijing kids are getting sent to Hong Kong to learn about their culture and way of life? How many Shanghai kids are being sent out to Tibet or Xinjiang? Or is it just kids from the periphery and non-mainstream cultures being sent to model schools to get a healthy dose of 'look how awesome the mainland/heartland is' and some political education? Cause the former is an acceptable tool for building shared identity and social bonding, the latter is a means of erasing differing cultures/political systems.
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Apr 24, 2015 08:54
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MrNemo posted:So if these exchange programmes are designed to encourage integration and shared experiences between different parts of China, how many Beijing kids are getting sent to Hong Kong to learn about their culture and way of life? How many Shanghai kids are being sent out to Tibet or Xinjiang? Take a guess?
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Apr 24, 2015 09:03
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caberham posted:Take a guess? They're going to be learning about street-making GBS threads, but with "Chinese characteristics", aren't they
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Apr 24, 2015 09:24
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MrNemo posted:So if these exchange programmes are designed to encourage integration and shared experiences between different parts of China, how many Beijing kids are getting sent to Hong Kong to learn about their culture and way of life? How many Shanghai kids are being sent out to Tibet or Xinjiang? Beijing and Shanghai kids will be sent to America, only 6000 USD for two weeks.
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Apr 24, 2015 10:05
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MrNemo posted:So if these exchange programmes are designed to encourage integration and shared experiences between different parts of China, how many Beijing kids are getting sent to Hong Kong to learn about their culture and way of life? How many Shanghai kids are being sent out to Tibet or Xinjiang? 
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Apr 24, 2015 12:39
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Fojar38 posted:How are the Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward portrayed in Chinese schools, out of curiosity? Strangely, it appears everyone in China was on vacation from 1958 to 1972 and absolutely nothing happened at all. E: There's a loving Cultural Revolution theme restaurant down the road a ways so they must teach something, but I couldn't tell you what. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Apr 24, 2015 |
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Apr 24, 2015 12:43
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Well I'm glad to hear that it won't be mandatory for all HKU students to spend a semester in the mainland but it goes a way to show the bullshit of claiming this is some sort of attempt to create a unified national identity rather than trying to get non-Han, non-central government types to conform.
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Apr 24, 2015 13:27
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quote:
http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2015/04/23/chinese-government-says-please-stop-hiring-funeral-strippers/?mod=newsreel
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Apr 24, 2015 14:25
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One of the more popular wedding pictures is for the bride and groom to dress like Red Guards. The history of the Cultural Revolution isn't really touched because the CCP is divided between people who benefited and people who were persecuted in the Cultural Revolution. There is some dialogue but there's no official addressing of it other than it happened and quickly changing the conversation. My international kids did think it was pretty funny that you could beat the teachers you didn't like to death. It's been the standard in Chinese history for a long time, maybe 5,000 years, that atrocities committed by Chinese people against Chinese people are nothing but a foreigner killing 1 Chinese person is an unspeakable crime that should never be forgiven. Bring up that accidental embassy bombing in Serbia in the 90's for instance and Chinese people over 20 will not shut the gently caress up about it like it was 9/11. The official Chinese version of history is pretty  and you still have poo poo like holding up Hong Xiuquan as a proto-Marxist hero because one of his unfulfilled policies was land reform and his men killed an American working for the Qing Dynasty. No talk about his insane policies, claims of being the brother of Jesus, or the massive body count his rebellion racked up. It's like Chinese Glenn Beck or Ann Coulter is writing the history books.
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Apr 24, 2015 15:01
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When I have my funeral, I want there to be all the strippers.
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Apr 24, 2015 18:00
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"Don't worry, that's just rigor mortis..."
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Apr 24, 2015 18:15
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Ceciltron posted:Cultural Exchanges are to you what the attempted extinction of cultures by central governments are to others. As an Anglophone in Quebec that is the target of such policies I can only roll my eyes at the hyperbole. quote:Do you justify limiting the language of TV stations and education system? Guangzhou lucked out with its Cantonese programming because of its proximity to Hong Kong but schools in Guangzhou do not teach Cantonese at all. Lots of Wu dialects and other languages got wiped out for the sake of "standard mandarin". There are virtually no modern nation-states that didn't have some sort of '-ization' policy to assimilate ethnic groups within their borders; France is as mentioned the most successful (Frenchmen went from 50% of France in 1848 to something like 90% by 1914 iirc); however I'm not arguing in support of such policies since obviously that was the case in the 18th and 19th centuries probably isn't ethically right in the 21st century; but I do think some forms of assimilation are ethically okay, trying to get Francophones and Anglophones to abide by a common "Canadian" identity. So if your asking am I in support of banning the use of local dialects in local TV channels, schools, and newspapers? No. But I *do* believe it is the legitimate prerogative of the central government to *have* and maintain mandarin channels, public schools and newspapers; as a social engineering policy tool; and that absolutely privately owned local dialect 'things' should exist and be allowed to operate unhindered from social engineering policies. In so far as what the government is obligated or has the legitimate right to do certain things, I feel is pretty clear. Whether it ought to do other things, is where I think things can get more nuanced. I feel the central government probably should be actively supporting the intelligentsia for local cultures as a means of thwarting latent separatist movements and to co-opt them to support its policies. *Should* fund and support local language channels and so on; in fact I'd be shocked if it weren't since that would be losing some very important avenues of influencing the populace of those cultures. States, governments, and nations have a certain contract of responsibilities, powers, obligations, rights, and so on that all comes together to mean "sovereignty" that lends to a certain sort of ethical give and take and lack any inherent ethical good or ill but are nevertheless, only existing for the purpose to be used; sure I can agree how they are used is certainly important, and certainly I can agree CCP is probably using such tools wrongly, but objecting to their right to use those tools is basically just tantamount to uncritically advocating anarchism without a deeper nuanced look into the philosophical concept of the social contract between the populace and state. MrNemo posted:So if these exchange programmes are designed to encourage integration and shared experiences between different parts of China, how many Beijing kids are getting sent to Hong Kong to learn about their culture and way of life? How many Shanghai kids are being sent out to Tibet or Xinjiang? For the record, I absolutely support it working in 'reverse', Beijing kids going to Hong Kong/Tibet etc. Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Apr 24, 2015 |
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Apr 24, 2015 19:02
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