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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:The official Chinese version of history is pretty Wait they just paper over the Taiping rebellion like that? That was like the biggest orgy of death and misery of the 19th century 
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Apr 24, 2015 19:08
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Like a lot of medieval peasant rebellions it's seen in Marxist historiography as a sort of proto-socialist proletarian uprising. Like Taiping a lot of medieval peasant uprisings had apocalyptic/utopian religious undertones, which is not really helpful for the Marxist narrative that the masses will throw off the shackles of religion in the benefit of their material interests, so they're just ignored Ultimately speaking though it was pretty much just a premodern peasant rebellion, they happened a lot and Taiping wouldn't have been particularly notable except for how massive it was, partly due to the slow unraveling of the Qing state icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Apr 24, 2015 |
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Apr 24, 2015 20:01
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How are u posted:Wait they just paper over the Taiping rebellion like that? That was like the biggest orgy of death and misery of the 19th century I don't think so, I've conversed with a bunch of Chinese nationals studying at Concordia about politics and history and Taiping comes up often as a big thing; particularly why the Falun Gong are stamped out as soon as it started creeping people out.
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Apr 24, 2015 21:17
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Raenir Salazar posted:I don't think so, I've conversed with a bunch of Chinese nationals studying at Concordia about politics and history and Taiping comes up often as a big thing; particularly why the Falun Gong are stamped out as soon as it started creeping people out. China has a long and storied history of violent exercise/"physical improvement" cults. Taiping, Yellow Turbans, Boxers, the list goes on.
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Apr 24, 2015 21:20
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Franks Happy Place posted:China has a long and storied history of violent exercise/"physical improvement" cults. Taiping, Yellow Turbans, Boxers, the list goes on. Right, I was implying that I found it unlikely that the rebellion would be papered over.
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Apr 24, 2015 21:25
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I would guess there are multiple conflicting narratives chosen selectively by the government based on circumstances. The classical Marxist line to glorify socialism, the anti-religion/cult line to criticize the Fulan Gong and religious groups in China, maybe one emphasizing the impact imperialism had on weakening the state to bludgeon the USA, etc
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Apr 24, 2015 21:40
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icantfindaname posted:I would guess there are multiple conflicting narratives chosen selectively by the government based on circumstances. The classical Marxist line to glorify socialism, the anti-religion/cult line to criticize the Fulan Gong and religious groups in China, maybe one emphasizing the impact imperialism had on weakening the state to bludgeon the USA, etc On the other hand it also wouldn't surprise me if it was a particularly bad textbook at some back waters highschool. I know an American who, while in highschool in Georgia (USA) that her history teacher said the reason why the United States used the atomic bombs on Japan was because the United States was losing the war. In short don't assume malice when negligence is more likely.
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Apr 24, 2015 21:45
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Franks Happy Place posted:China has a long and storied history of violent exercise/"physical improvement" cults. Taiping, Yellow Turbans, Boxers, the list goes on. Boxers had weird beliefs but they were foremost about kicking the foreigners out, which is why the Empress didn't shoot at them so much after the initial conflicts.
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Apr 25, 2015 02:02
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Did they really try using martial arts against guns or is that a myth?
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Apr 25, 2015 02:09
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computer parts posted:Boxers had weird beliefs but they were foremost about kicking the foreigners out, which is why the Empress didn't shoot at them so much after the initial conflicts. Founding of Ming dynasty was aided by the Chinese Manichaeism cult too (hence the name "Ming"), Taiping really shouldn't be counted as a "religions rebellion" since Hong Xiuquan barely read any Christianity text. whatever7 fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Apr 25, 2015 |
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Apr 25, 2015 02:30
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History education is a function of the teacher's education, educational resources, pedagogy and curriculum imo.
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Apr 25, 2015 03:40
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drilldo squirt posted:Did they really try using martial arts against guns or is that a myth? Part of the propaganda was that they had magical talismans that would protect them from Western firearms. Bear in mind it's probably part propaganda to recruit people and support as well as morale boosting for people in the rebellion and partly genuinely believed and would have also resulted in some victories where those opposing the boxers were hugely outnumbered and torn apart or at least forced to retreat.
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Apr 25, 2015 14:26
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Watched too many gifs like this: Last time China went kung-fu fighting we ended up with dozens of millions dead  (Was it the leader of the Boxer rebellion that had a pretty  story or do I misremember?)
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Apr 26, 2015 13:16
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You're probably thinking of the Taiping rebellion dude. He had the whole 'failed civil servant entrance exams, read a pamphlet about Jesus followed by a nervous breakdown where he had a vision wherein he went to heaven, met Jesus who told him he was totally his brother and that his task in life was to be Second Coming. Also he saw Confucius and dude was totally in hell and being beaten and was totally a pussy about it' thing going on.
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Apr 26, 2015 16:42
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MrNemo posted:You're probably thinking of the Taiping rebellion dude. He had the whole 'failed civil servant entrance exams, read a pamphlet about Jesus followed by a nervous breakdown where he had a vision wherein he went to heaven, met Jesus who told him he was totally his brother and that his task in life was to be Second Coming. Also he saw Confucius and dude was totally in hell and being beaten and was totally a pussy about it' thing going on. And he died when he thought that he could subsist on "manna" which turned out to be some lovely plant.
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Apr 26, 2015 18:08
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Raenir Salazar posted:I don't think so, I've conversed with a bunch of Chinese nationals studying at Concordia about politics and history and Taiping comes up often as a big thing; particularly why the Falun Gong are stamped out as soon as it started creeping people out. Falun Gong was stamped out because they attempted to coop themselves into the Chinese government and the CCP did not like that. When Falun Gong went on to display their size and power, the CCP stomped them out because they didn't want to compete with them. Not because they thought they were going to take up arms and be the next White Lotus or Taiping Rebellion. There's nothing in common between the ideology of the White Lotus and Taiping Rebellion and Falun Gong. Falun Gong is stretching exercises and Scientology like beliefs, the White Lotus and Taiping were religious movements that called for the violent overthrow of their current regimes within their own belief systems. People who study history and political science are not given the same level of history education as everyone else, especially in China where the curriculum is super specialized. China's not that much different than the US in terms of what most people are getting education wise outside of their specialties. If you visit the Taiping Museum, it goes way out of its way to frame the rebellion as a proto-Marxist predecessor for the Chinese Civil War. The same was true at a modern, prestigious school in Shanghai that's attended by powerful and influential people.
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Apr 27, 2015 14:47
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-32545591quote:The bruises took weeks to heal. I am unsure if the knee healed from being "beaten" with a bamboo stick or if the body naturally heals itself over time. It certainly, however, is not for the faint-hearted and even though the knee got better, I would not go back in a hurry. Hmm I don't know, that "body healing with time" hypothesis seems pretty medically unfounded to me...
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May 1, 2015 13:15
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Although this sounds like D&D forums...quote:These include colds, body pains, Alzheimer's, strokes, paralysis, kidney failure and even cancer and autism.
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May 1, 2015 13:17
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Isn't that just setting off your brains endorphins in response to injury like cutting but with less external bleeding?
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May 1, 2015 13:59
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Basically, yeah. (It's a little more complicated, but to simplify...Yes.)
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May 1, 2015 15:57
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...n-betrayed.html So much irony on so many levels.
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May 7, 2015 13:49
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Arglebargle III posted:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...n-betrayed.html I find it sad, really. This is Deng Xiaoping's legacy of capitalist restoration at work -the poor can starve for all the rich care.
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May 7, 2015 17:55
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that's the so-called "chinese characteristics" part of china's so-called "socialism"
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May 7, 2015 17:57
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angel opportunity posted:that's the so-called "chinese characteristics" part of china's so-called "socialism" So called China
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May 7, 2015 18:37
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What if like China isn't real, man?
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May 7, 2015 18:43
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Arglebargle III posted:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...n-betrayed.html The people responsible for mass murder want their pension!
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May 7, 2015 19:11
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loving true believers.
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May 7, 2015 20:11
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Nonsense posted:The people responsible for mass murder want their pension! How is a film projectionist responsible for mass murder?
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May 7, 2015 23:06
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If I had to guess, I'd say it's something to do with the Red Guard.
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May 8, 2015 01:09
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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May 8, 2015 08:11
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Going back to the Taiping Rebellion discussion, I've met a lot of otherwise highly educated Chinese people of all ages who were dumbfounded at the notion that there was any religious element at all to the Taiping Rebellion. Only the history nerd, autodidact types seem aware of the Christian aspect. So I'm pretty sure the "proto-Marxist uprising" narrative is the predominant one in schools. Also, anyone with even a passing interest in the Taiping owes it to themselves to read Autumn in the Heavenly Kingdom. It's a great book.
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May 8, 2015 09:03
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Daduzi posted:Going back to the Taiping Rebellion discussion, I've met a lot of otherwise highly educated Chinese people of all ages who were dumbfounded at the notion that there was any religious element at all to the Taiping Rebellion. Only the history nerd, autodidact types seem aware of the Christian aspect. So I'm pretty sure the "proto-Marxist uprising" narrative is the predominant one in schools. Agreed. Platt did a fantastic job writing that. I'd also recommend 'The World of a Tiny Insect' - a first hand account by a man writing in the 1890s of his boyhood during the rebellion. quote:There were five sorts of “flames of war.” The sort that had a sharp tip and flared up straight was a beacon fire. The sort that had a diffused purplish light was the fire that burned possessions. The sort that was black in its upper part and red at the base was the fire that burned houses. The sort that gave off a white smoke like clouds and drifted about was the fire that burned grain. As for the sort with a congealed smoke and of a light green hue, that was the fire that burned corpses. I had tested this theory from the pinnacle of Snow Shadow Peak, and had never erred.
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May 8, 2015 13:42
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A Taiwanese friend of mine just posted this article on Facebook: http://www.businessinsider.com/photos-of-taobao-shoppers-in-rural-china-2015-5 quote:"Gyatsoling Rinpoche was born in 1990 and was chosen as the reincarnation of the Living Buddha when he was four. Gyatsoling graduated from Tibet Medical College in his 17th, and is now the youngest teacher in the college. He only buys Buddhist goods on Taobao, such as butter lamps and candles. To him, online shopping is a way to cut down expenses." lol
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May 8, 2015 13:55
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I tend to view the Taiping rebellioun as something along the continuum of finding a modern China at a time when their current culture and systems of government had almost nothing to offer them as a way forward into the world. There was a religious component, but I don't think it was a purely religious movement. Underlying it and at its core it was a manifestation of the troubles underlying Chinese society in general. So calling it a proto-Marxist uprising wouldn't be too far off the mark. Although I'd even call Chinese Marxism as a proto-post-monarchy evolution into a modern China.
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May 8, 2015 14:04
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Vladimir Putin posted:I tend to view the Taiping rebellioun as something along the continuum of finding a modern China at a time when their current culture and systems of government had almost nothing to offer them as a way forward into the world. There was a religious component, but I don't think it was a purely religious movement. Underlying it and at its core it was a manifestation of the troubles underlying Chinese society in general. So calling it a proto-Marxist uprising wouldn't be too far off the mark. Although I'd even call Chinese Marxism as a proto-post-monarchy evolution into a modern China. The 10-15 years after the fall of the Emperor is one of the more interesting periods in Chinese history. You had the collapse of the old regime, establishment of a Republic, collapse due to reactionary elements, large numbers of people embracing Communism because of Western ignorance and imperialism, and then the Nationalists and Communists team up to reunite China. Also fun fact: the flag of the Nationalists is only prominent in one location on the mainland: the tomb of Sun Yat-Sen. 
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May 8, 2015 14:12
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Morkies posted:The history of the world tells a tale of the continual displacement of populations, each by a worthier successor, and humanity gains thereby. We ourselves are no descendents of the aborigines of Britain, and our colonists were invaders of the regions they now occupy as their lawful home. But the countries into which the Anglo-Saxon race can be transfused are restricted to those where the climate is temperate. The Tropics are not for us, to inhabit permanently; the greater part of Africa is the heritage of people differently constituted to ourselves. On that continent, as elsewhere, one population continually drives out another. Consider its history as it extends over successive centuries. We note how Arab, Tuarick, Fellatah, Negroes of uncounted varieties, Cadre, Hottentot surge and reel to and fro in the struggle for existence. It is into this free flight among all present that I wish to see a new competitor introduced-namely, the Chinaman. The gain would be immense to the whole civilized world if we were to out-breed and finally displace the negro, as completely as the latter has displaced the aborigines of the West Indies. The magnitude of the gain may be partly estimated by making the converse supposition –namely, the loss that would ensue if China were somehow to be depopulated and restocked by negroes.
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May 8, 2015 17:17
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Vladimir Putin posted:I tend to view the Taiping rebellioun as something along the continuum of finding a modern China at a time when their current culture and systems of government had almost nothing to offer them as a way forward into the world. There was a religious component, but I don't think it was a purely religious movement. Underlying it and at its core it was a manifestation of the troubles underlying Chinese society in general. So calling it a proto-Marxist uprising wouldn't be too far off the mark. Although I'd even call Chinese Marxism as a proto-post-monarchy evolution into a modern China. It certainly wasn't a purely religious movement, but nor was it proto-Marxist. If it was anything it was a combination regionalist-nationalist uprising, combing Southern-Chinese grievances with Han Chinese grievances.
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May 10, 2015 14:52
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computer parts posted:The 10-15 years after the fall of the Emperor is one of the more interesting periods in Chinese history. You had the collapse of the old regime, establishment of a Republic, collapse due to reactionary elements, large numbers of people embracing Communism because of Western ignorance and imperialism, and then the Nationalists and Communists team up to reunite China. This is also why 90% of all chinese dramas are set during this time period.
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May 10, 2015 17:08
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The other 90% are palace dramas, usually Qing or Han.
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May 10, 2015 20:19
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Bloodnose posted:The other 90% are palace dramas, usually Qing or Han. I like the one with the boobies, too bad they got censored out!
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May 11, 2015 04:44
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