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El Generico posted:Yeah, I know, my master plan was to post on Punchspot Pagoda for six years and then suddenly jump into the Skyrim Modding thread with a bunch of unpopular arguments that nobody agrees with, Bethesda is paying me big bucks for all this.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:19
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Pakled posted:For what it's worth, I'm not a fan of accusing someone of being a shill without definitive proof since I've been on the other side of those accusations and it's pretty silly to be accused of being a shill when you just have an opinion that differs from the majority I don't make that accusation lightly.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:20
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Am I allowed to keep playing modded copies of Oblivion and New Vegas and remain ideologically pure?
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Apr 24, 2015 22:21
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sword_man.gif posted:or it will be like every other loving scummy thing the games industry is doing to nickel and dime everyone to death while releasing products with as little quality control and effort as possible and it will become the accepted norm you just deal with, much like on-disc dlc, major day one patches, and waiting a couple weeks after release to buy games because they're unplayable due to bugs If you think about it, every single part of a game is now monetized, from birth to death and beyond. You have the entry fee of the price of the game, the convenience fee of micro-transactions while you are playing the game, DLC after you are done playing the main part of the game, micro-transactions inside of the DLC while you are playing it, and now for modding long after support has ended. A lot of people are loving tired of being nickle and dimed to death. Why is this so controversial to some people? graynull posted:Really though, is there anyone here planning on buying mods? Not meant to be bait, just genuinely curious if anyone plans to buy any mods. To make me buy a mod, it'd have to be a total conversion. Everything new and detailed. And it has to work flawlessly as if it were a game itself. No tinkering, no load orders, no dependencies, no bullshit. I install it and it works. I don't spend days or hours loving around since it is something I paid for. Considering those standards, probably loving never.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:21
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graynull posted:Really though, is there anyone here planning on buying mods? Not meant to be bait, just genuinely curious if anyone plans to buy any mods. I've thought about under what circumstances I would. First it would have to be clear that this is the new normal and my lack of participation will have no effect on saving the future of modding! or what have you. In that case spending under $5 every now and then won't break the bank. Then again, I already have a bunch of mods downloaded. This would look very different if I was just starting out and all the good stuff has been paywalled. Modding on a huge scale wouldn't be feasible (which is arguably a good thing??). So for example, if SkyUI had been sold for $1 from day one? That would have been worth a buck to me, yeah. Not sure about a lot of other stuff I have. Basically it would have to be something really big and indispensable and I'd only feel comfortable doing it a few times a year maybe. If I had more disposable income, I don't know. The thing about it is that as a suite of flagship products, the first curated mods were just stupid bad values. Two bucks for a fishing simulator? It could be a very good fishing simulator, but what? All those crappy "get a new sword/armor!" mods that you need to use the console (lmao) to get because the modder couldn't even be bothered to place it or add to a leveled list are not worth any money. By comparison, what might be worth a few bucks is something huge like Immersive Armors, where it's a ton of content well integrated. But again, "worth" here is conditioned as "something I will do maybe twice in a year with a gift card I guess." The other thing that severely gives me pause is that I can no longer just try something and if it doesn't work, drop it. After 24 hours I am literally "invested" in it to a small degree. So idk, on the balance I could see myself only doing it very rarely for a really amazing mod. If TES6 is like this from day one I will probably not get it knowing that I would probably not enjoy it much down the line without a bunch of mods that I'd likely have to pay possibly as much as the whole game for.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:22
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El Generico posted:Yeah, I know, my master plan was to post on Punchspot Pagoda for six years and then suddenly jump into the Skyrim Modding thread with a bunch of unpopular arguments that nobody agrees with, Bethesda is paying me big bucks for all this. *ignores arguments* Uhhh actually I'm shilling for free nice try
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Apr 24, 2015 22:23
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GunnerJ posted:The other thing that severely gives me pause is that I can no longer just try something and if it doesn't work, drop it. After 24 hours I am literally "invested" in it to a small degree. So idk, on the balance I could see myself only doing it very rarely for a really amazing mod. This is a big part for me too. I've downloaded a couple mods that everyone loved, and I immediately hated upon installing. Right now I can just delete it and be on my way, no harm no foul, but throw a five dollar charge in the mix and it changes.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:24
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graynull posted:Really though, is there anyone here planning on buying mods? Not meant to be bait, just genuinely curious if anyone plans to buy any mods. I'd pay for something like the Long War mod for X-Com. No Skyrim or Gamebryo mod comes close to those kind of standards so I don't see myself every paying for a mod of a Bethesda game.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:24
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GunnerJ posted:The thing about it is that as a suite of flagship products, the first curated mods were just stupid bad values. This is definitely true. When I think of mods I hope make a bunch of money, it's like, Falskaar, Khajiit Speak, hell, I hope SkyUI guy gets his piece. Danaru posted:This is a big part for me too. I've downloaded a couple mods that everyone loved, and I immediately hated upon installing. Right now I can just delete it and be on my way, no harm no foul, but throw a five dollar charge in the mix and it changes. There is a 24 hour trial period. Granted, that's not going to be long enough in a lot of cases. El Generico fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Apr 24, 2015 |
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Apr 24, 2015 22:24
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projecthalaxy posted:Am I allowed to keep playing modded copies of Oblivion and New Vegas and remain ideologically pure? "No!" says the modder, "where is my compensation?!" "No!" says Balve, "it belongs to us!" "No!" says the lowly gamer, "it belongs to all of us!" There is no place deep enough to escape this.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:25
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Mendrian posted:Okay, you like baking cookies for your neighborhood. It's fun for you, you like the praise, and it's a hobby. Then some guy from the city comes down and informs you that due to obscure bylaws, you have to charge at least a quarter your cookies, no matter what, if you want to give them out in your neighborhood. Otherwise you can stop making them. Again: no one is being forced into this. Valve & Bethesda can be blamed for comming up and implementing this stupid idea. Modders can be blamed for joining the stupid idea. I do like your idea that "Valve and Bethesda's voice carries an authority that I don't grasp". The mental picture of Newell & Howard luring those poor, innocent modders (who are apparently incapable of independant thought) to their doom with the sweet siren song of money is a funny one. Mendrian posted:I suspect you figure you would have the moral fiber to resist such riches if you were in their shoes? For that matter, I'm also a big proponent of the cathedral view of modding.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:26
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Ash1138 posted:Well I just uninstalled Skyrim and like 20 gigs of mods so nope. Same. People who say it's silly to avoid certain developers should know that it's entirely possible to *gasp* just not play some games. Have been doing it for years. Crazy, I know. If it makes a difference - well, it does for me and my wallet, and yes, I do care about if I paid 2 bucks for something or not. It's not like skyrim was a stellar game or anything. The only thing that made it interesting was looking at neat mods for free go "huh nice" have the game crash eventually from mod overload and then never ending up playing it to begin with. This thread was way more active than the Skyrim game discussion thread, compare that to the Fallout thread where people kept philosophizing about the game for years. You wanna pay a few hundred bucks for that privilege? Haha, gently caress that. Let's be honest here, besides stuff like SPERG (which is a big special case) most mods really don't have any production quality, often are buggy and well... you just know you have a mod in your game. That level of quality is really not worth any money, and gokufan69 promising future versions and added features if you buy his mod at the low price of five bucks now is not really something very promising or something I'd rely on. Especially when he can pull the plug on his mod and keep your money at any time. Even if he doesn't, we all ran into situations where a mod first seemed like a good idea, and then it turned out it broke the game or the developer kept updating it into an unplayable state. You really want to put your money on the line for that? This would have gone over a lot smoother if they would have implemented paying for mods for the next Bethesda title from the get go. Why they decided to do this on a game that has been out for years boggles the mind. Seeing that they closed down discussion on this at steam tells me they were not really prepared for this reaction. Also it's amazing to me that their community managers there still think in TYOOL 2015 it is smart to try to shut down discussion on a particular issue. This always ends up just making people madder. It's not like you can tell the entire internet to shut up.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:29
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projecthalaxy posted:Am I allowed to keep playing modded copies of Oblivion and New Vegas and remain ideologically pure? Nope, modding is ruined forever rip
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Apr 24, 2015 22:30
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graynull posted:Don't forget about the new status quo of staggering content and selling it later as DLC. Why won't you just accept being nickled and dimed to death? Not me for sure. I have the disposable income to do so and have waited eagerly for mods like Frostfall 3/Wet and Cold 2 etc. But I simply refuse be nickle and dime to death by Valve/Bethesda this way. I'm not trying to change the world or stupid poo poo like that. I'm just not going to contribute to what I consider a scummy business practice. I'll rather donate 100% of my money to the modders that I think deserve it and Chesko was one of them. I feel genuinely bad for the dude as he has always been very stand up, but he knows he made a terrible decision and is now being absolutely crucified for his mistake.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:34
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All this hubbub has reminded me skyrim exists. Has anyone modded in guns in a vaguely competent manner? I wanna take down dragons with an M60 and mow down the legion with my ak.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:35
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I wonder what the timetable was for rolling paid mods out to other games and whether it has changed since this morning
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Apr 24, 2015 22:36
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Dapper Dan posted:If you think about it, every single part of a game is now monetized, from birth to death and beyond. You have the entry fee of the price of the game, the convenience fee of micro-transactions while you are playing the game, DLC after you are done playing the main part of the game, micro-transactions inside of the DLC while you are playing it, and now for modding long after support has ended. Microtransactions for what used to be cheat codes, yeah, that's bullshit. Convenience fees and the like suck. But man, I can't believe in the year 2015 we still have people generically whining about the very concept of DLC. We had DLC before, it was called expansion packs instead, and a lot of them were good, like how a lot of DLC is good now. If they don't review well or sound interesting to you, don't buy them. If you think they're overpriced, wait for them to go on sale. But why would you complain about having the option to buy more content for games you already enjoy? Why is the very concept of DLC still offensive to people even now, when the dust has settled and most of the major DLC that gets released is either acceptable or great?
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Apr 24, 2015 22:38
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El Generico posted:There is a 24 hour trial period. Granted, that's not going to be long enough in a lot of cases. That's not really long enough in any case, given how modding Skyrim works.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:39
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Sextro posted:All this hubbub has reminded me skyrim exists. Has anyone modded in guns in a vaguely competent manner? I wanna take down dragons with an M60 and mow down the legion with my ak. That Aethernautics mod that adds a spaceship you can use as a player home also adds fancy overpowered dwemer bolt-action rifle things. I recommend pairing it with SPERG for the infinite ammo perk.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:40
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Spamming F5 and watching SkyUI loosing endorsements is like Cookieclicker, truly modding is the gift that keeps on giving.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:40
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Come and play Elder Scrolls Online, friends, where the mods are free.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:43
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Berke Negri posted:Come and play Elder Scrolls Online, friends, where the mods are free. Until they become SW exclusive.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:44
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Why would it have been so difficult to just have a "Donate" button on the mod page and people can just donate a fewbux if they like because hey, Helgen Reborn is genuinely great, or Nehrim is the equivalent of a whole new game, or I've spent more time with Long War than I have with base XCOM? The way they've actually gone about it all is a total catastrofuck. WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?
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Apr 24, 2015 22:44
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Mister Adequate posted:Why would it have been so difficult to just have a "Donate" button on the mod page Bethesda and Valve don't make any money from donate buttons. 
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Apr 24, 2015 22:44
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Mister Adequate posted:Why would it have been so difficult to just have a "Donate" button on the mod page They were thinking they didn't get a cut.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:45
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Sextro posted:All this hubbub has reminded me skyrim exists. Has anyone modded in guns in a vaguely competent manner? I wanna take down dragons with an M60 and mow down the legion with my ak. Someone made guns out of crossbows, think it's called "Project Musket," but as the name suggests they're guns circa 1500 AD.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:45
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Pakled posted:Bethesda and Valve don't make any money from donate buttons. projecthalaxy posted:They were thinking they didn't get a cut. Yeah 
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Apr 24, 2015 22:46
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Scyantific posted:Until they become SW exclusive. No one plays ESO through steam, we're probably safe.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:46
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Mister Adequate posted:Why would it have been so difficult to just have a "Donate" button on the mod page and people can just donate a fewbux if they like because hey, Helgen Reborn is genuinely great, or Nehrim is the equivalent of a whole new game, or I've spent more time with Long War than I have with base XCOM? They were thinking the number of people who pay for stuff if they don't have to is tiny.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:46
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GaistHeidegger posted:Not to worry--you can still buy the Debut Pack bundle and get them all! I'm fairly sure Skyrim was the #1 user reviewed game on Steam a few days ago at 98% and is now at 95% (and falling?). To the extent that user reviews drive sales, this would have a significant impact on sales. To whoever asked, I personally wouldn't mind paying for mods in the abstract. Most of the ones that got my interest were survival mods and I was willing to put up with their jankiness and shoehorned implementation because they're free. I doubt I would've paid even $1 otherwise. What I would gladly pay money for is a compilation of most popular mods within a sphere (e.g. Skyrim Survival Compilation) already made compatible and with convenient menus to turn everything on and off. That's easily worth $5 and upwards for me.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:49
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Mister Adequate posted:Why would it have been so difficult to just have a "Donate" button on the mod page and people can just donate a fewbux if they like because hey, Helgen Reborn is genuinely great, or Nehrim is the equivalent of a whole new game, or I've spent more time with Long War than I have with base XCOM? That people who poo poo out armor (the one that they use in their advertisements, no less) and don't give enough of a gently caress to even place it in the game or finish the mod at all would be more than happy to give them most of the money as long as they got a piece. And that brand recognition will get them all sorts of shills for free, so hey!
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Apr 24, 2015 22:49
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The problem is that this poo poo is only going to drive a vicious cycle. Bethesda puts out broken games. Modders release mods to fix the games. Now Bethesda gets a cut on both the game and the mods, so they actually have an additional profit incentive to put out bad games. They'll make up whatever lost sales with additional mod sales to fix the poo poo that was their fault in the first place!
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Apr 24, 2015 22:51
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So with the monetization of mods, can we expect the market forces to take over and all the John Galts of the modding world to spring forth and provide the glory and majesty they have, until now, been holding back because it has been parasites wanting handouts, right?
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Apr 24, 2015 22:53
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graynull posted:So with the monetization of mods, can we expect the market forces to take over and all the John Galts of the modding world to spring forth and provide the glory and majesty they have, until now, been holding back because it has been parasites wanting handouts, right? A glorious future of pay to play dongs and schlongs awaits you, my friend. Just you wait and see.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:54
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El Generico posted:Microtransactions for what used to be cheat codes, yeah, that's bullshit. Convenience fees and the like suck. I'm not saying DLC is bad, it is just that when every single step is monetized, there's going to be a straw that breaks the camel's back. PC gaming is not an inexpensive hobby. Constantly asking people to pay more and more and more for the same experience is just not going to go over well, especially when that experience has been free since the dawn of the computer. And they've been nickle and dimed by a ton of bullshit over the years. Yes, modders who make great content deserve to have a donation button, and a patreon or go fund me or whatever is the most popular to earn something for their work. Putting it behind a paywall is a loving godawful idea and in no way benefits the consumer or the modders. It is for the sole benefit of the publisher and the service to continue to monetize every step of the game and wring as much money out of people as possible.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:57
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There's a couple of Europa Universalis mods I have that I'd pay $10 for, can't think of anything for Skyrim or similar. Maybe the old 20th Century Arsenal mod for Fallout 3.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:58
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Cantorsdust posted:Bethesda puts out broken games. Modders release mods to fix the games. Now Bethesda gets a cut on both the game and the mods, so they actually have an additional profit incentive to put out bad games. They'll make up whatever lost sales with additional mod sales to fix the poo poo that was their fault in the first place! If this takes off this is what modding games will generally be like, not only for Bethesda titles.
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Apr 24, 2015 22:58
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Ahaha. Jesus. SkyUI is losing endorsements like crazy. It's dropped several hundred in the past few minutes alone. They really hosed up with this whole paid mod thing, didn't they? Edit: I'm refreshing every thirty seconds and it's still losing endorsements every time. This is amazing. People are pissed.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:01
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Dapper Dan posted:PC gaming is not an inexpensive hobby. Yeah it is. Have you ever seen the money people spend on miniatures or Magic the Gathering or model planes or whatever? As far as hobbies go, PC gaming is as cheap as it gets. Every game goes on sale for like 66% off, there's tons of free to play stuff, you only have to upgrade hardware every few years. You can make it really expensive if you want to rock Titan Xes in SLI, of course. Dapper Dan posted:Putting it behind a paywall is a loving godawful idea and in no way benefits the consumer or the modders. It is for the sole benefit of the publisher and the service to continue to monetize every step of the game and wring as much money out of people as possible. If people clicked donation buttons enough that it was really comparable to what mod authors can make even on a 25% cut of paid downloads, the internet wouldn't be running on ad revenue.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:08
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El Generico posted:If people clicked donation buttons enough that it was really comparable to what mod authors can make even on a 25% cut of paid downloads, the internet wouldn't be running on ad revenue. The actual money modders get out of this is neglible. Someone on the official forums did an estimation of the amount of money made by the mod makers per paid mod online compared to what Bethesda and Valve are making. Turns out it's just highway robbery. Also the amount of money each modder has made is around like $100 tops. After one day most of them haven't even gotten close to breaking the $100 limit that lets the mod makers make money. Meanwhile Bethesda and Valve keep raking in the cash due to the varied selection of poo poo mods up. People hate this poo poo so much that the only people making money off of it are Bethesda and Valve by virtue of all but the most popular mods not getting sales. Edit: Also, you are an idiot. Quit shilling for a company that is literally profiting off of the work of others. Archonex fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Apr 24, 2015 |
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Apr 24, 2015 23:10
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