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El Generico posted:Yeah it is. Have you ever seen the money people spend on miniatures or Magic the Gathering or model planes or whatever? As far as hobbies go, PC gaming is as cheap as it gets. Every game goes on sale for like 66% off, there's tons of free to play stuff, you only have to upgrade hardware every few years. Modding is totally inexpensive because it's not as expensive as much more expensive hobbies, and modders ARE getting some table scraps from the big companies, so nickel and diming is fine, guys! Are you SURE you're not getting paid to do this?
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Apr 24, 2015 23:11
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Noirex posted:Not me for sure. I have the disposable income to do so and have waited eagerly for mods like Frostfall 3/Wet and Cold 2 etc. But I simply refuse be nickle and dime to death by Valve/Bethesda this way. Yea, nobody is trying to make a crazy political statement by not purchasing mods, it's just completely rational behavior. Mods are a pain in the rear end to get running and its a real crapshoot to get them working, something that just scales with the size. Modding in swearing mud crabs with top hats won't crash your game but it probable isn't worth buying. Adding 20 new items to the weapon and armor lists would be worth a couple bucks but it's tough to get running and more prone to making new problems, and you can't exactly experience all those new additions in 24 hours so it's very possible to run into game breaking issues long after the return period. So consumers are basically given the option of buying a product that's overpriced, a product that may not work as stated or they could just use the same platform offering those products to buy a full new game for the same amount of money as the other, inferior products. From a business standpoint, they're cutting open the Goose that Laid the golden eggs. They are taking a lucrative selling point which costs them absolutely nothing and gutting it because they think a huge one time payout is waiting inside, only to find that the goose/modding community is full of disgusting bloody organs that go through the process of filtering out the poo poo and blood and guts to churn out the golden eggs. Weirder sill, the modders least affected by this are probably the ones making hosed up sex mods, since that can't realistically be sold on steam without forcing Bethesda/Valve to take some responsibily for thier content; a mod which adds graphic sexual assault to the game would definitely cause some serious PR issues if the devs are actively endorsing it.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:11
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Voting with your wallet is taking part in capitalism in it's purest form and I never understand when people try to shame others by doing it. "I don't think I'm going to buy Bethesda's next game as heartily as I was" "HEH WHATEVER PISSY BAbY YOU CAN'T STOP IT"  are you trying to make people feel bad about buying things because some hyper-sperg on the internet can't help put project his or her weird capitalistic-insecurities onto everyone else? If someone doesn't want to buy something because they don't like the decisions the company makes, don't like the commercial, don't like the way the company portrays itself or doesn't like the beliefs that its CEO holds those are all valid reasons to not buy something, because in capitalsm EVERY reason, no matter how stupid, is a valid reason.El Generico posted:
 El Generico posted:If people clicked donation buttons enough that it was really comparable to what mod authors can make even on a 25% cut of paid downloads, the internet wouldn't be running on ad revenue. Incidentally enough a better way to handle this would be to run adds on a mod's page and share the ad revenue with the modder. Of course that isn't good enough so???
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Apr 24, 2015 23:13
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Oh after this I figure they'll be going after LoversLab and the 18+ mods too, if only for protection money.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:13
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Archonex posted:Also the amount of money each modder has made is around like $100 tops. Most of them don't even break the $100 limit. Meanwhile Bethesda and Valve keep raking in the cash. I'd say clearing $100 net profit in two days is probably more than donation buttons have done for these mod authors in two months.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:13
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El Generico posted:Yeah it is. Have you ever seen the money people spend on miniatures or Magic the Gathering or model planes or whatever? As far as hobbies go, PC gaming is as cheap as it gets. Every game goes on sale for like 66% off, there's tons of free to play stuff, you only have to upgrade hardware every few years. I don't see how other hobbies being expensive makes this one less on less expensive. Either way with this model the cost of getting the most out of a single Bethesda game will reach over 100$. That's unconscionable
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Apr 24, 2015 23:14
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I just tweeted four times about the new mod marketplace so you know I have an opinion on the subject!
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Apr 24, 2015 23:14
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StopHangingDjs posted:I don't see how other hobbies being expensive makes this one less on less expensive. How else can you know how expensive something is other than to compare it with the cost of other similar things? 
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Apr 24, 2015 23:17
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graynull posted:Really though, is there anyone here planning on buying mods? Not meant to be bait, just genuinely curious if anyone plans to buy any mods. With the 24-hour refund period, isn't it possible to buy a mod, take the files, and then refund it for a free mod?
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Apr 24, 2015 23:18
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El Generico posted:I'd say clearing $100 net profit in two days is probably more than donation buttons have done for these mod authors in two months. Actually, no. Donations are a great way to buoy someone up. Some people with extremely successful projects (Like Dwarf Fortress.) sometimes get a ridiculous amount of donation money per month. It's all about exposure and how good your product is. And what's more the Nexus actually has the preferable method in this case by letting you donate to mod makers too! Going to say it again since you cherry picked my post to get around responding to the fact that people discovered that Valve and Bethesda are basically ripping the mod makers with paid mods off . You are an idiot. Quit shilling for a company that is taking money from people that are the literal reason that game is a success. I mean, gently caress. Even using your own warped logic what they're doing is the equivalent of outsourcing DLC and then taking most of the proceeds for themselves. It's a scummy business maneuver no matter how you try to jump through hoops to justify it.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:19
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Zorato posted:With the 24-hour refund period, isn't it possible to buy a mod, take the files, and then refund it for a free mod? Yeah, until Valve gets annoyed at losing money to you and bans you because they can 
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Apr 24, 2015 23:19
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KakerMix posted:Voting with your wallet is taking part in capitalism in it's purest form and I never understand when people try to shame others by doing it. It also killed Maxis and ended up making EA *slightly* less scummy. People are underestimating the effect of voting with their Wallet because it takes many months sometimes.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:19
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El Generico posted:How else can you know how expensive something is other than to compare it with the cost of other similar things? Collecting planes and minatures is the same as playing and modifying video games? And the value of goods is different within each hobby so it's apples and oranges?
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Apr 24, 2015 23:20
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Zorato posted:With the 24-hour refund period, isn't it possible to buy a mod, take the files, and then refund it for a free mod? Refunds go into your Steam wallet so Valve gets your cash either way.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:20
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El Generico posted:How else can you know how expensive something is other than to compare it with the cost of other similar things? Hahahahaha Jesus Christ
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Apr 24, 2015 23:22
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^^^^ eta: good lord. El Generico posted:Yeah it is. Have you ever seen the money people spend on miniatures or Magic the Gathering or model planes or whatever? As far as hobbies go, PC gaming is as cheap as it gets. Every game goes on sale for like 66% off, there's tons of free to play stuff, you only have to upgrade hardware every few years. "PC gaming is less expensive than other hobbies" does not mean "PC gaming is inexpensive." Those "every two years" hardware upgrades are not trivial expenses.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:22
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Archonex posted:Ahaha. Jesus. SkyUI is losing endorsements like crazy. It's dropped several hundred in the past few minutes alone. I don't really feel like modding skyrim anymore now that the idea of not being able to update my mod list in the future is there. Really really poo poo. e: Sky UI, that is, since 90% of Good Mods (TM) require it as a library anyway.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:23
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Collecting old cars is also an expensive hobby so gaming should be more expensive because reasons.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:23
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I feel like this would be less of a disaster if they did more of a Humble Bundle approach and let you pick what % went to whom, instead of the "gently caress you got mine" approach they currently have. Seems like that would have been the 'everybody wins' scenario.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:24
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El Generico posted:How else can you know how expensive something is other than to compare it with the cost of other similar things? Hey chief, go compare the cost of two high end luxury cars and tell me why the one with a lower pricetag is "inexpensive" on the basis of this stellar reasoning.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:25
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No, the 'everybody wins' scenario is the publisher puts out extremely buggy poo poo but embraces (heretofore free) modding, which drives game sales. This is basically Paradox's business model, and was Bethesda's up until two days ago. Now Bethesda has decided to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs because its current executives will get gently caress-you rich from the feathers, and don't give a poo poo that there won't be golden eggs anymore five years from now because by then they'll be long gone.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:26
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Police Automaton posted:Collecting old cars is also an expensive hobby so gaming should be more expensive because reasons.  PC gaming is a really expensive hobby, I don't know what people are talking about. Have you motherfuckers tried throwing away your desktop and making model airplanes? See the kind of difference it makes to your wallet.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:26
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Thug Lessons posted:Refunds go into your Steam wallet so Valve gets your cash either way. Not that I'm doubting you, but this is something I have only heard about and is one of the 2 or 3 shittiest things about this whole shitshow, so I'm curious where it says this but not curious enough to look it up on whatever page lays out the fine print. So uh, idk is that where it is?? Don't do my homework for me if so.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:31
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El Generico posted:If people clicked donation buttons enough that it was really comparable to what mod authors can make even on a 25% cut of paid downloads, the internet wouldn't be running on ad revenue. This would be relevant if donation buttons existed on sites like the Nexus before. They didn't. In fact, the Nexus barely let you even shill for your own donation page. You couldn't link to Patreons or anything. This:  Is the first time they've ever done something like this. At the end of the day, you're defending a practice that benefits no one but the companies involved. It is guaranteed to have both the worst quality control and customer service in the games industry. And lets look at what modders get from this 'deal': Modders get paid 25% to: do customer service, make sure their mod doesn't do anything unintended or have people screaming at you, fix a broken game that the developers themselves didn't at slave wages, no longer get to compile their mod with other popular mods to get recognition because that would cost the popular mod money (or pay for the privilege to use a necessary mod to make their own), earn $400 dollars before they see a dime (remember, it is a $100 in 'earned income', which means the 25% after Valve/Bethesda take their pound of flesh) and then have a majority of profit get taken away from them if they manage to hit it. EDIT: El Generico posted:Yeah it is. Have you ever seen the money people spend on miniatures or Magic the Gathering or model planes or whatever? As far as hobbies go, PC gaming is as cheap as it gets. Every game goes on sale for like 66% off, there's tons of free to play stuff, you only have to upgrade hardware every few years. PC gaming is at minimum a 1k entry fee. I can buy 50 bucks in magic cards or $300 for a starter 40k army (unpainted with the rulebooks). I won't be the best, but I will be able to participate. A mid-range gaming PC if you build it yourself is 900-1k, which will get you 1080p at ultra if you play your cards right. Anything less isn't really worth the cost because it is already outdated. And this does not count the cost of peripherals (monitors, speakers, etc.). If you don't have the skills to build a gaming pc, prepare to spend 1.5k-2k for the same machine, still without peripherals. If you want 1440p (or god forbid) 4k resolution, you're looking at spending 2-3 grand if you build it yourself and who knows how much if you don't. And prepare to spend hundreds every couple of years to make sure your 4k, 1080 or 1440p rig can handle the pretty things. Dapper Dan fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Apr 24, 2015 |
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Apr 24, 2015 23:33
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KakerMix posted:Voting with your wallet is taking part in capitalism in it's purest form and I never understand when people try to shame others by doing it. I hate this because this is never a reasonable decision, but a reactionary one, one most people will downright forget they've made the next day. There is no message given or received, this is just a tantrum because you are powerless otherwise so you do the closest thing that will "hurt" them.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:34
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It's cool how the two companies most associated with mods and that used to tout the mod scene as a reason to buy their games have declared open war on modding. Next I expect Zynga and King to come out hard against cash shops.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:36
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GunnerJ posted:Not that I'm doubting you, but this is something I have only heard about and is one of the 2 or 3 shittiest things about this whole shitshow, so I'm curious where it says this but not curious enough to look it up on whatever page lays out the fine print. So uh, idk is that where it is?? Don't do my homework for me if so. http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/refundpolicy Refunds will be credited exclusively back to the Steam Wallet from which the original purchase was funded. For reasons of fraud prevention, your Steam Wallet will be credited for the transaction within two to three days from the time you submitted your refund request.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:36
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projecthalaxy posted:It's cool how the two companies most associated with mods and that used to tout the mod scene as a reason to buy their games have declared open war on modding. Next I expect Zynga and King to come out hard against cash shops. What if... you had to pay, to use cash shops? Like an entrance fee?
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Apr 24, 2015 23:37
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projecthalaxy posted:It's cool how the two companies most associated with mods and that used to tout the mod scene as a reason to buy their games have declared open war on modding. Next I expect Zynga and King to come out hard against cash shops. poo poo, Zynga didn't go bankrupt yet?
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Apr 24, 2015 23:38
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Remember guys, game devs don't care about bad press and community reaction and your criticism and complaints can never affect anything they do ever http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/33qp26/tripwire_updated_its_killing_floor_2_eula_on/
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Apr 24, 2015 23:38
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Noirex posted:http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/refundpolicy Hahaha jesus christ
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Apr 24, 2015 23:38
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Noirex posted:http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/refundpolicy This won't fly in a few European places (Great Britain is the best example - if you paid with something other than a Steam wallet). But it's still a pretty sneaky way for them to keep the money.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:39
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Bholder posted:I hate this because this is never a reasonable decision, but a reactionary one, one most people will downright forget they've made the next day. I really can't wrap my head around how not buying something is never a reasonable decision?
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Apr 24, 2015 23:39
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I want to make fun of everyone getting mad about either side of this argument, but if I had paid for all of the mods that I have I would have shelled out literally hundreds of dollars if they were all only a couple of bucks a piece. That idea doesn't excite me, especially since the most of the biggest ones are built from poorly cobbled together bones of other, even less supported mods.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:40
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StopHangingDjs posted:I really can't wrap my head around how not buying something is never a reasonable decision? Because you are reacting to something (??), which is never reasonable (????) and I guess that's what reactionary means now. (?????????????) eta: I guess, in theory, "reactionary" could actually basically mean counter-revolutionary in this context if we imagine that the decision to not buy something from a company going in a radically new direction is rather like the decision to turn back the clock on liberal democracy or something. GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Apr 24, 2015 |
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Apr 24, 2015 23:40
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StopHangingDjs posted:I really can't wrap my head around how not buying something is never a reasonable decision? gotta have all them games
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Apr 24, 2015 23:41
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Thug Lessons posted:Remember guys, game devs don't care about bad press and community reaction and your criticism and complaints can never affect anything they do ever Smart of Tripwire to suck up some good press out of this thing, but it's not like they were going to allow paid mods in the first place, so no, the community reaction still hasn't done jack poo poo. EDIT: Thanks for the red text! Always wanted some!
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Apr 24, 2015 23:43
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Archonex fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Apr 24, 2015 |
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Apr 24, 2015 23:43
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StopHangingDjs posted:I really can't wrap my head around how not buying something is never a reasonable decision? When it has nothing to do with the game itself to send a "message"?
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Apr 24, 2015 23:43
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Bholder posted:I hate this because this is never a reasonable decision, but a reactionary one, one most people will downright forget they've made the next day. I don't know why you are hellbent of turning a perfectly reasonable decision into something so emotional. I can assure you I'm not going to 'forget' and suddenly start purchasing all the paid mods before my breakfast coffee tomorrow. Edit: Or next month or ever for that matter.
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Apr 24, 2015 23:43
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